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kitplane01
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Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:58 am

“Someone in the airline's operations control center feared attendants might walk off the plane after working long hours. So they ordered the door closed.“.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cf2 ... 6b198c/amp
 
many321
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:00 am

I just read that...and wow...really Delta...
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:07 am

Hence why they are trying to unionize
 
skystar767
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:23 am

Even union airlines try to pull that one on flight attendants. It’s not the first time delta has tried that with the flight attendants.
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:26 am

Disgusting!! Employees deserve respect and a fair working environment. Really gross.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:36 am

kitplane01 wrote:
“Someone in the airline's operations control center feared attendants might walk off the plane after working long hours. So they ordered the door closed.“.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cf2 ... 6b198c/amp



And this is why Delta FAs need a union.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
OKCDCA
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:39 am

Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part where the door was opened and they still didn’t walk. And kudos to DL for owning up to the incident and admitting the ops folks didn’t handle the situation in the best way. I’ve got a pretty good feeling those FA’s were taken care of after the fact based on DL’s response.
 
grbauc
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:48 am

many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:14 am

grbauc wrote:
many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?


This was real, and there are screenshots floating around of the conversation on their "flight family" app. For once, a huffpost article got it right.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:31 am

grbauc wrote:
many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?


Flightaware shows the flight as delayed, which is a small bit of confirmation (but not perfect).

Also, Delta says it happened: "Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol.

Yes, I believe. And I believe that all corporations have employees who make mistakes, and I wonder if maybe Delta is handling this just like they should.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:48 am

grbauc wrote:
many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?


"Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol."

How is it sensationalism if the article has quoted sources and response to comment from the airline? Did you even read it?
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
many321
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:07 am

grbauc wrote:
many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?


Yikes! Though, sorry to break it to you. It happened.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:18 am

klm617 wrote:

And this is why Delta FAs need a union.


OKCDCA wrote:
Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part where the door was opened and they still didn’t walk.


I don't see how it would make too much of a difference. Union or no union, DL's management said that they thought this was unacceptable. This is not official DL policy or procedure, but rather, was the doing of an employee at DL ops.

Whoever at ops was responsible and the employee at ATL who complied with the instruction should be formally counseled and the incident should be noted in their employee files.

DL's management seems to understand that if they start treating their employees this way on the regular, it will hurt the quality of the airline as a whole. Now, I'm pro-union in general, but for one-off incidents like this, there's not much that unions can do other than face management and wag their fingers. And in this case, management didn't need the finger-wagging.
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strfyr51
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:20 am

OKCDCA wrote:
Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part whe I once got into an argument I’ve got a pretty good feeling those FA’s were taken care of after the fact based on DL’s response.


JUST like ANY airline, You'll get some Over Zealous Manager from OPS who thinks it's their SOLE duty to not miss a departure for anyone much less a flight attendant. They cause more trouble than they're worth most of the time..
I once got into an argument with an OPS manager when I had to take an airplane out of service for a possible broken slat cable. She got to shouting about the airplane going out of service while an FAA inspector was sitting at my desk in Maintenance Control.
The inspector was sitting there talking to one of the other Maintenance Controllers when she went off! It was all I could do to not tell her to shut the "F" UP and stay OUT OF my BUSINESS!! She went and got the OPS manager who knew the FAA inspector. Not 6 months Later?
All the OPS Managers had to wind up going to school to obtain their Dispatch License to keep their positions and all of them had to qualify and do a turn every so often on a dispatch sector which some of them didn't find so easy.. .




'
 
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chepos
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:22 am

Had this been any other airline most around here would have been jumping head first on criticizing the airline, not the veracity of the article. It’s DL so this never could have happened, right. Hate to break it to some of you, crap also happens at DL. They are just excellent at spinning it.


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enilria
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:02 am

many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...

This is one part of how they have such a low cancel rate.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:57 am

It's absolutely confounding to me that we've arrived at a point where news gets dismissed as "sensationalism" and "garbage" when a story has sources on record and acknowledgement of the incident (and the breach of protocol) FROM THE AIRLINE IN QUESTION cited in the article. Just because you don't like the light it puts DL in (I'm guessing these reactions are coming from a staunchly anti-union segment of the posting populace) doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
grbauc
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:14 am

many321 wrote:
grbauc wrote:
many321 wrote:
I just read that...and wow...really Delta...



With the crappy Reporting today and lack of research does everyone just believe every sensationalism article they read?


Yikes! Though, sorry to break it to you. It happened.


I never said it couldn't or doesn't happen. Its just the continued jumping off a cliff without knowing all the facts that current day news is at right now with the big push to get the story first.... we know this is a problem. I don't see a big conspiracy here rather overzealous employees trying to keep the system moving.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:05 am

I’ve seen this happen in other instances like the door being closed and mtx returning the logbook through the cockpit window as not to open the door and trip a new OUT time. Also, if the captain ordered the jetbridge back up and door open, they’d open it I’m sure. Plus, fairly certain, at least one would hope that FAs are trained to open said doors. To me this sounded like a race against the clock as to what would happen first, MTX completing their duties or FAs timing out. Looks like MTX won and upset, fatigued flight attendants voiced their displeasure.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:09 am

airlinepeanuts wrote:
I’ve seen this happen in other instances like the door being closed and mtx returning the logbook through the cockpit window as not to open the door and trip a new OUT time. Also, if the captain ordered the jetbridge back up and door open, they’d open it I’m sure. Plus, fairly certain, at least one would hope that FAs are trained to open said doors. To me this sounded like a race against the clock as to what would happen first, MTX completing their duties or FAs timing out. Looks like MTX won and upset, fatigued flight attendants voiced their displeasure.


And you'd be wrong. MX didn't finish on time, they still opened the door, the flight attendants still worked it, and they got a deadhead in return.

They were upset because the effort DL went to trap them on the plane, even when they were going to take the plane anyways. The OCC guy didn't know his message went out to everyone, that's the only reason he got caught.
 
smartplane
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:29 am

777Mech wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
I’ve seen this happen in other instances like the door being closed and mtx returning the logbook through the cockpit window as not to open the door and trip a new OUT time. Also, if the captain ordered the jetbridge back up and door open, they’d open it I’m sure. Plus, fairly certain, at least one would hope that FAs are trained to open said doors. To me this sounded like a race against the clock as to what would happen first, MTX completing their duties or FAs timing out. Looks like MTX won and upset, fatigued flight attendants voiced their displeasure.


They were upset because the effort DL went to trap them on the plane, even when they were going to take the plane anyways. The OCC guy didn't know his message went out to everyone, that's the only reason he got caught.

"Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol."

Presumably the breakdown in company protocol was the broadcast message, not the intent or action.
 
bennett123
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:49 am

If they are that close to timing out when still at the gate can they still fly another Sector?.
 
Canuck600
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:02 am

Delta should terminate the Ops person who authorized this so the other ops people won't pull that stunt again. If the ops person is just reprimanded they'll know they can still get away with stuff with only a minor slap on the wrist.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:27 am

smartplane wrote:
777Mech wrote:
airlinepeanuts wrote:
I’ve seen this happen in other instances like the door being closed and mtx returning the logbook through the cockpit window as not to open the door and trip a new OUT time. Also, if the captain ordered the jetbridge back up and door open, they’d open it I’m sure. Plus, fairly certain, at least one would hope that FAs are trained to open said doors. To me this sounded like a race against the clock as to what would happen first, MTX completing their duties or FAs timing out. Looks like MTX won and upset, fatigued flight attendants voiced their displeasure.


They were upset because the effort DL went to trap them on the plane, even when they were going to take the plane anyways. The OCC guy didn't know his message went out to everyone, that's the only reason he got caught.

"Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol."

Presumably the breakdown in company protocol was the broadcast message, not the intent or action.


There was no breakdown in protocol. The Delta mentality is to get the flight out at all costs and that's what the operations manager did.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Leftseatpusher
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:51 am

klm617 wrote:
smartplane wrote:
777Mech wrote:

They were upset because the effort DL went to trap them on the plane, even when they were going to take the plane anyways. The OCC guy didn't know his message went out to everyone, that's the only reason he got caught.

"Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol."

Presumably the breakdown in company protocol was the broadcast message, not the intent or action.


There was no breakdown in protocol. The Delta mentality is to get the flight out at all costs and that's what the operations manager did.


That's the mentality of every airline.
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:02 am

smartplane wrote:
"Delta acknowledged the Flight 1990 incident in a statement to HuffPost, saying it was a breakdown of company protocol."

Presumably the breakdown in company protocol was the broadcast message, not the intent or action.


I think the problem is with the delivery of the message not the content.

Normally crew have a maximum number of hours that they can be pre-planned to work, however on the day due to something like this technical delay they can consent to extending that by a couple of hours. Normally it involves extra pay and most are happy to continue on as they are already at work.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:46 pm

Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:06 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.

Yes they would have. It happens at unionized airlines all the time. This is not uncommon at all...
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:24 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.


Absolutely false. All employees have resources. Additionally, at a non-union company you can actually interact with management directly.

As others have pointed out this type of scenario happens everywhere, a union makes zero difference in this case but nice try.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:34 pm

skystar767 wrote:
Even union airlines try to pull that one on flight attendants. It’s not the first time delta has tried that with the flight attendants.


The operative word in your statement is "try". UA tries this as well but unlike DL, UA still has to abide by the union contract, and although UA tries in most cases UA fails when they try this approach.

At UA is it no longer when the door is closed FA's can't walk it now goes by FAMP (flight attendant must push) time. If the aircraft hasn't pushed off the gate at UA the FA's can requested the jetbridge be returned to the aircraft. Also in this situation I'm wondering if the DL captains knew the DL management had ordered the door closed to keep the FA's from walking? If the captain knew these FA's were approaching their duty limitations I have to wonder why the captain still took the aircraft. FA's aren't on the aircraft to just serve drinks and food they have an FAA mandated job and they are there for safety reason first and foremost. DL management was wrong ordering the door closed and IF the captain was aware of the situation and still took the aircraft with FA's that were out of duty time then that is problem as well.
Last edited by jayunited on Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jayunited
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:50 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Absolutely false. All employees have resources. Additionally, at a non-union company you can actually interact with management directly.

As others have pointed out this type of scenario happens everywhere, a union makes zero difference in this case but nice try.


A union makes a huge difference in these types of situations because a UA flight attendant could have requested the door either be reopened or could have refused to let the agent close the door especially in this type of situation when you are approaching duty limitations. In this situation when the FA's are so close to their maximum duty hours with the aircraft on maintenance UA's FA's would supersede any door close order from management. DL's flight attendants for all intents and purposes were trapped on board a flight that was sitting at the gate on a mechanical delay and couldn't do anything about it. At UA FA's are required to take the flight only if the aircraft pushes and is ready for departure. If DL's FA's had a union this aircraft would have never left the gate and further more the agent would have never been able to close the door so close to duty time especially seeing the aircraft wasn't ready for departure. DL's FA's do not have the same work rules or the same protection or rights that union FA's do at UA.
 
twinotter
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:57 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:

False and ignorant of law. Crew duty limits imposed by the FAA supersede union rules. There darn sure is a recourse for when they’re broken.


The government doesn't impose duty limits on flight attendants. Any "timing out" would relate to a company rule or policy.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:00 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.


That’s ignorant. I worked at a unionized airline in ops. I’ve been told to do this exact same thing multiple times. We just didn’t put it through a cars. You have a false sense of reality of the strengths and recourse of the union. I wish you all could unionize for six months to see how vastly different your world would be and not in a good way. Spoken from a person who has been in a union and is currently not in one.
 
AY104
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part where the door was opened and they still didn’t walk. And kudos to DL for owning up to the incident and admitting the ops folks didn’t handle the situation in the best way. I’ve got a pretty good feeling those FA’s were taken care of after the fact based on DL’s response.

I certainly believe that is correct. Bad PR for Delta, but it is the few employees in question who mishandled the situation. Delta did state that it is not normal protocol.
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:20 pm

AY104 wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part where the door was opened and they still didn’t walk. And kudos to DL for owning up to the incident and admitting the ops folks didn’t handle the situation in the best way. I’ve got a pretty good feeling those FA’s were taken care of after the fact based on DL’s response.

I certainly believe that is correct. Bad PR for Delta, but it is the few employees in question who mishandled the situation. Delta did state that it is not normal protocol.


Agreed. The FAs were quoted as saying they were fine with working the trip. The FAs closed the door. MX reopened it and they were still ok with it. Really that message from SOC to ops or the gate (not clear from this lefty hit piece) was the only thing improper and DL has admitted as much.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:32 pm

FAA duty is 14, crew rest can be 8 or 9 hours now being increased to 10.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:35 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.


Absolutely false. All employees have resources. Additionally, at a non-union company you can actually interact with management directly.

As others have pointed out this type of scenario happens everywhere, a union makes zero difference in this case but nice try.



Oh yes it does. Its called grievance and can result in the airline putting cash into the wronged employees pocket and then whoever broke the rules gets to answer to higher management why they just lost the company some money.

At non-union airlines? you get an apology and the person responsible gets a pat on the back for getting the flight out.
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:43 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Not my opinion , reality is Delta would never have done this to unionized employees. Unionized employees have resources. Anyway can bet given the current drive to unionize delta is going to find these employees and shower them in gifts and compensation to keep them quiet and happy.


Absolutely false. All employees have resources. Additionally, at a non-union company you can actually interact with management directly.

As others have pointed out this type of scenario happens everywhere, a union makes zero difference in this case but nice try.



Oh yes it does. Its called grievance and can result in the airline putting cash into the wronged employees pocket and then whoever broke the rules gets to answer to higher management why they just lost the company some money.

At non-union airlines? you get an apology and the person responsible gets a pat on the back for getting the flight out.


Not to mention it is held against you as being a non coperative employee if you don't play the game by mangemernts rules. Hard to believe that happenend to such an employee friendly airline and again the manger felt they needed to do this because of how Delta conditions it's employees to react.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:43 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
FAA duty is 14, crew rest can be 8 or 9 hours now being increased to 10.


Scheduled is 14 but there is no FAA max due to irregular operations. According to them you can be delayed 30 hours and still be legal, at that point company policy comes in or you call fatigue. FAA mandated rest is currently 8, but can be more depending on your actual duty day.

FAA is being grossly negligent about enforced THE LAW passed in October 2018 that gave them 30 days to implement new 10 hours minimum rest between duty periods. Its criminally negligent. What if something bad happened due to lack of rest that dulled the reaction time or performance of crew? Then the FAA will shuffle their feet and tell us sorry. Was there not a crash some years ago around I think Buffalo that was attributed to not enough rest for a pilot and that brought about new rest rules for them?

FAA is always reacting instead of getting ahead of issues, even when congress tells them to. Sad

Back to the topic: Delta FAs need to just unionize and get it over with, only then will there be true reciprocal accountability
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:44 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
FAA duty is 14, crew rest can be 8 or 9 hours now being increased to 10.


So now you're agreeing that the FAA does in fact have work rules... smh.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
klm617
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:47 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
AY104 wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
Hang on just a minute... All of you screaming for unionization must’ve missed the part where the door was opened and they still didn’t walk. And kudos to DL for owning up to the incident and admitting the ops folks didn’t handle the situation in the best way. I’ve got a pretty good feeling those FA’s were taken care of after the fact based on DL’s response.

I certainly believe that is correct. Bad PR for Delta, but it is the few employees in question who mishandled the situation. Delta did state that it is not normal protocol.


Agreed. The FAs were quoted as saying they were fine with working the trip. The FAs closed the door. MX reopened it and they were still ok with it. Really that message from SOC to ops or the gate (not clear from this lefty hit piece) was the only thing improper and DL has admitted as much.


So why is this a story if the FA's agreed to stay on board. Something doesn't wash here. Somebody didn't like what was happening and that's how this story got out.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:53 pm

Ok i just read the article and the supposed exchange between ops and the gate, lol. I guarantee you stuff like that happens all the time at all airlines. You still need contract protections so management can't push the envelope when they feel like it , or worse, change rules all the time so your workers don't even know what the rules are anymore. A contract is static and allows everyone to memorize the rules of the game. Otherwise you get the shadiness you saw in those messages where people play games and hope those you are trying to manipulate into doing what you want don't catch on!
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:57 pm

Also, how in the world did they claim they had no reserves for that flight, IN ATLANTA?? jezz
 
DDR
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:03 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Also, how in the world did they claim they had no reserves for that flight, IN ATLANTA?? jezz


Easy. If it was late at night there probably were not enough airport ready reserves available.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 461
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:06 pm

DDR wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Also, how in the world did they claim they had no reserves for that flight, IN ATLANTA?? jezz


Easy. If it was late at night there probably were not enough airport ready reserves available.


at 10:30pm? And they could not of tagged some inbound crews for it either? My skin crawls whenever workers get pushed into obscenely long work days, especially when they are workers responsible for the safety of others. This is why im so perturbed with the FAA not implement the new rest laws, because the airlines should won't, in the name of mighty capitalism. Rest and safety be damned.
 
twinotter
Posts: 222
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Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:14 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
FAA duty is 14, crew rest can be 8 or 9 hours now being increased to 10.


Flight attendants never legally "time out" regardless of their scheduled work period. If a flight is delayed, the flight attendants remain legal to operate forever. Stating a fact doesn't imply agreement or disagreement.
 
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NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:13 pm

The crew worked the flight "willingly"? Sure they did. All Flight Attendants at Delta are "at will employees" which means you do what you are told. In my sarcasm that could mean male flight attendants could be required to wear girdles. All Delta's employees are non union employees except the Pilots and flight dispatches which allows them to have certain protections due to a contract and can't be terminated for reasons that violate their contacts without going through the grievance procedure. At will employees can be terminated for almost any reason no matter what it is. Here is an example I am aware of that happened fifty years ago at a company that I worked for but was not involved in. The manager/director "invited" a number of employees under his jurisdiction on a weekend to help lay bricks at his home. Those that did not show up when they showed up after the weekend for work found themselves discharged for cause that was not related the previous weekend. Those that laid bricks were not terminated.
Unionization is good but the the union is forced to defend employees that should. be discharged for cause. Also some union officers or representatives use their position to benefit their own self interests and have little interest in their union members just like some politicians do. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3511
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Unions are not the panacea for errors such as this. Actually they exacerbate these top of issues. Life will not be better for unionized FA workforce no matter how you spin it. If that were the case everything at UA and AA would be cookies and cream for them. Some just don't get the fact that many workers these are tired of the lies and deceit that goes around when a small group tries to unionize a workforce.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 7298
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:38 am

I think the bigger issue is why are the employees directly or indirectly leaking internal company matters to a “media” outlet.

In most organizations airing internal company matters as such could be worthy of termination.

I question if this was actually sent out my anyone even remotely involved with the event or if this is more desperate union drive saber rattling propaganda.

This stuff goes on at every airline trying to get the best outcomes with limited resources. Creative ways to avoid crew time outs happens all the time. Plenty of airlines will pull the brakes push back 2 ft then pop a door to finish loading late bags. Closing the door immediately after the last passenger onboard with full aisles, etc.

Yawn....
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta Tried To 'Trap' Its Own Flight Attendants

Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:02 am

klm617 wrote:
There was no breakdown in protocol. The Delta mentality is to get the flight out at all costs and that's what the operations manager did.


Agree 100% with this. Shameful on Delta? Depends on your point of view. But business as usual for that operation.

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