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American 767
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Austin787 wrote:
AA is in the process of streamlining its fleet by reducing aircraft models. The A321LR makes sense for AA, since they operate A321s. While a Boeing NMA, if launched, would be a new aircraft type.


I totally agree with you. The A321LR would be the perfect 757 replacement. But now the question is: If they decide to move forward with it, are they going to place a new order or convert some of the NEOs they currently have on order?

One other question is if they still want the remaining 76 MAX they still have on order. I am not 100% sure American is really happy with the MAX. They seem a lot happier with the A321, CEO Doug Parker loves the Airbus narrowbodies. So it is, not likely but not impossible either, that they will decide not to take the 737 MAX they still have on order. I am not saying this because of the grounding following the two major disasters, it sure doesn't make things any easier, but it isn't the sole reason I say that. Other things that make me say that is they got negative feedback from customers flying on the MAX (too cramped, not enough leg room and tiny lavatories) and also they deferred delivery schedules already prior to the grounding.
They have to think seriously and ask themselves the following question" "The MAX, do we really want it in our fleet?".
Because if they choose not to continue with the MAX then they will order more A321s, NEOs of course, and in that case the LR version could be ordered as a new order.
Ben Soriano
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:29 pm

rj1385 wrote:
sagechan wrote:
AA flies to, I believe 21 destinations in Europe now, with 20 from PHL. LHR and MAD are the only true OW partner hubs, though BCN and DUB could be considered.


Was just surprised actually that AA or Finnair do not have a flight to connect to Helsinki.

I am sure we'll see non-stop flights between HEL and PHL in the near future operated by either Finnair or American Airlines, probably with Airbus A321LR or -XLR.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
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flyabr
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:14 pm

After reading all this, I can't help but wonder how well a 753Max with GTFs would have sold. Anyone know how to figure out what kind of range said aircraft might have had? :-)
 
cledaybuck
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:19 pm

American 767 wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
AA is in the process of streamlining its fleet by reducing aircraft models. The A321LR makes sense for AA, since they operate A321s. While a Boeing NMA, if launched, would be a new aircraft type.


I totally agree with you. The A321LR would be the perfect 757 replacement. But now the question is: If they decide to move forward with it, are they going to place a new order or convert some of the NEOs they currently have on order?

One other question is if they still want the remaining 76 MAX they still have on order. I am not 100% sure American is really happy with the MAX. They seem a lot happier with the A321, CEO Doug Parker loves the Airbus narrowbodies. So it is, not likely but not impossible either, that they will decide not to take the 737 MAX they still have on order. I am not saying this because of the grounding following the two major disasters, it sure doesn't make things any easier, but it isn't the sole reason I say that. Other things that make me say that is they got negative feedback from customers flying on the MAX (too cramped, not enough leg room and tiny lavatories) and also they deferred delivery schedules already prior to the grounding.
They have to think seriously and ask themselves the following question" "The MAX, do we really want it in our fleet?".
Because if they choose not to continue with the MAX then they will order more A321s, NEOs of course, and in that case the LR version could be ordered as a new order.

Are you saying American doesn’t like the Max because passengers don’t like the way American configured the Max?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
IAmGaroott
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:06 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
hOMSaR wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

Unlike their A320's or 772's from 2001-02. :cheeky:


Or their 737-800s from the same timeframe. What’s your point?


A 2002-built 757 is always viewed as old/aging on this site, whereas a similar-aged 777, A330, 738, or A320 is never referred to as such.

Oh well - more material for beer cans, and it will be interesting to see if it is the XLR, what design changes A made (1988 wing or fuel tank optimization :scratchchin: ).


At this point, I feel like when an AA crew drops the last 772 off in the desert, they’ll fly home on an A333 :duck:
 
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American 767
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:32 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
AA is in the process of streamlining its fleet by reducing aircraft models. The A321LR makes sense for AA, since they operate A321s. While a Boeing NMA, if launched, would be a new aircraft type.


I totally agree with you. The A321LR would be the perfect 757 replacement. But now the question is: If they decide to move forward with it, are they going to place a new order or convert some of the NEOs they currently have on order?

One other question is if they still want the remaining 76 MAX they still have on order. I am not 100% sure American is really happy with the MAX. They seem a lot happier with the A321, CEO Doug Parker loves the Airbus narrowbodies. So it is, not likely but not impossible either, that they will decide not to take the 737 MAX they still have on order. I am not saying this because of the grounding following the two major disasters, it sure doesn't make things any easier, but it isn't the sole reason I say that. Other things that make me say that is they got negative feedback from customers flying on the MAX (too cramped, not enough leg room and tiny lavatories) and also they deferred delivery schedules already prior to the grounding.
They have to think seriously and ask themselves the following question" "The MAX, do we really want it in our fleet?".
Because if they choose not to continue with the MAX then they will order more A321s, NEOs of course, and in that case the LR version could be ordered as a new order.

Are you saying American doesn’t like the Max because passengers don’t like the way American configured the Max?


I'm just asking myself in American really wants it.
Ben Soriano
 
bigb
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:11 pm

American 767 wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
AA is in the process of streamlining its fleet by reducing aircraft models. The A321LR makes sense for AA, since they operate A321s. While a Boeing NMA, if launched, would be a new aircraft type.


I totally agree with you. The A321LR would be the perfect 757 replacement. But now the question is: If they decide to move forward with it, are they going to place a new order or convert some of the NEOs they currently have on order?

One other question is if they still want the remaining 76 MAX they still have on order. I am not 100% sure American is really happy with the MAX. They seem a lot happier with the A321, CEO Doug Parker loves the Airbus narrowbodies. So it is, not likely but not impossible either, that they will decide not to take the 737 MAX they still have on order. I am not saying this because of the grounding following the two major disasters, it sure doesn't make things any easier, but it isn't the sole reason I say that. Other things that make me say that is they got negative feedback from customers flying on the MAX (too cramped, not enough leg room and tiny lavatories) and also they deferred delivery schedules already prior to the grounding.
They have to think seriously and ask themselves the following question" "The MAX, do we really want it in our fleet?".
Because if they choose not to continue with the MAX then they will order more A321s, NEOs of course, and in that case the LR version could be ordered as a new order.


AA is going to take their 737 Max, next question.....
 
Austin787
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:39 pm

IAmGaroott wrote:
At this point, I feel like when an AA crew drops the last 772 off in the desert, they’ll fly home on an A333 :duck:

And after AA pilots fly the last A321NEO to the desert, they will fly home on an MD-80 :lol:
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:55 pm

American 767 wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
AA is in the process of streamlining its fleet by reducing aircraft models. The A321LR makes sense for AA, since they operate A321s. While a Boeing NMA, if launched, would be a new aircraft type.


I totally agree with you. The A321LR would be the perfect 757 replacement. But now the question is: If they decide to move forward with it, are they going to place a new order or convert some of the NEOs they currently have on order?

One other question is if they still want the remaining 76 MAX they still have on order. I am not 100% sure American is really happy with the MAX. They seem a lot happier with the A321, CEO Doug Parker loves the Airbus narrowbodies. So it is, not likely but not impossible either, that they will decide not to take the 737 MAX they still have on order. I am not saying this because of the grounding following the two major disasters, it sure doesn't make things any easier, but it isn't the sole reason I say that. Other things that make me say that is they got negative feedback from customers flying on the MAX (too cramped, not enough leg room and tiny lavatories) and also they deferred delivery schedules already prior to the grounding.
They have to think seriously and ask themselves the following question" "The MAX, do we really want it in our fleet?".
Because if they choose not to continue with the MAX then they will order more A321s, NEOs of course, and in that case the LR version could be ordered as a new order.


Are you seriously blaming the Max for cramped seating and tiny bathrooms? That is all the fault of AA and they are doing the same to the Airbus fleet. Good grief.
 
RickNRoll
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:07 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Replacement for the 757 indeed, those planes are getting old.


Unlike their A320's or 772's from 2001-02. :cheeky:
The A321NEO will be much more efficient than the 757, meaning it makes sense to retire the 757 earlier.
 
Swadian
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:18 pm

flyabr wrote:
After reading all this, I can't help but wonder how well a 753Max with GTFs would have sold. Anyone know how to figure out what kind of range said aircraft might have had? :-)


4000 nm shouldn't be a problem. Even the Douglas DC-8-63 had 4000 nm range.
John Wang, Founder and President of Inland Streamliner.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:34 am

Revelation wrote:
No big news that the world's largest A320 family operator might add A321LR and/or A321XLR to their fleet.


US was the largest (by number of aircraft) Airbus operator in the world. So AA now has that title. Of course, the vast majority of their Airbus fleet is the A320 family, so they are also the largest A320 family operator in the world.

The A321LR would be a logical choice for their TATL route network since it is the only real 757 replacement on the market from a performance point of view. The payload-range curves are very similar.
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IAmGaroott
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:19 am

Austin787 wrote:
IAmGaroott wrote:
At this point, I feel like when an AA crew drops the last 772 off in the desert, they’ll fly home on an A333 :duck:

And after AA pilots fly the last A321NEO to the desert, they will fly home on an MD-80 :lol:


Still in the silver livery :old:
 
bourbon
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:20 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
A 2002-built 757 is always viewed as old/aging on this site, whereas a similar-aged 777, A330, 738, or A320 is never referred to as such.


That's because the year of production is actually less important than the year of design.

The 757 first flew in 1982 and as such it used the latest technology available in 1982. However a 757 produced in 2002 is basically identical to a 757 produced in 1982, it used the same technology. In 1982 this technology was the newest available, in 2002 it wasn't anymore. That's why, even though the plane was built in 2002, it is essentially a 1982 aircraft.

The 737NG first flew in 1997, so they were able to put in much newer technology that wasn't available in 1982. This 1997 technology was still being used in 737NGs built in 2002. So a 2002 built 737NG used much newer technology than a 2002 built 757. That's why a 2002-built 757 is considered old/aging and a 2002-built 737NG isn't. The 757 was already old before it was even produced.


The 757’s are considered tired because the interior is basically the same as when the plane was originally delivered (not to be taken literally )

The 777’s have brand new interiors
 
chrisp390
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:20 am

What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?
 
JonNYC
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:29 am

chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?

Secondary Europe from PHL/JFK was attached to my original intel on the subject.
 
DCA350
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:39 am

chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?



That would be my question, most assume TA but I think the game changer would be SA.. Just about every city in South America would open up to their MIA hub. I could see a half dozen new flights between secondary Brazilian and Argentina cities alone..
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:47 am

by738 wrote:
smartplane wrote:
The 757 nomenclature will probably be revived in a new NB model.

I dont see that at all. They have never reused the original numerical naming for a completely different new build, and I don't expect them to do so. Can you imagine the uproar if they used eg 747 for something else?


If you want to get technical, Boeing did recycle the 717 branding for what was to have been the MD-95 when they acquired McDonnell Douglas. The original 717 was the internal Boeing model for the KC-135 (the military version of the 707/720). Yes, I know that's an apples to oranges comparison to what you're suggesting regarding the 757, but it's not like it's completely unprecedented. That doesn't mean we'd ever see a future new-sheet Boeing aircraft carry the 757 name, especially when it doesn't seem clear how Boeing will brand future passenger aircraft post-NMA/797.
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PW100
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:14 am

JonNYC wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?

Secondary Europe from PHL/JFK was attached to my original intel on the subject.

Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?
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chonetsao
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:33 am

Is that A321LR or A321XLR??? I am sort of confused here.
 
Ishrion
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:34 am

PW100 wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?

Secondary Europe from PHL/JFK was attached to my original intel on the subject.

Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.
 
juliuswong
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:00 am

American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
HPAEAA
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:41 pm

Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
Secondary Europe from PHL/JFK was attached to my original intel on the subject.

Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If they had a large enough fleet with a intl lay flat J I imagine it could help the quite a bit if they operated the frames on the non LAX/SFO trans con runs and to a wider array of European cities... somehow I doubt they will and rather just order a small fleet to be based at PHL & MIA for Europe & South America. Trips...
1.4mm and counting...
 
EK77WNH
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:53 pm

I wonder whether AA will defer any expected announcement until after the show, as a way of placating Boeing (who they still want to stay in good graces with).
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bridge29
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:07 pm

DCA350 wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?



That would be my question, most assume TA but I think the game changer would be SA.. Just about every city in South America would open up to their MIA hub. I could see a half dozen new flights between secondary Brazilian and Argentina cities alone..


How so? Europe has almost twice the population of South America. Europe drives more tourism to/from the U.S. Secondary South America would be a plus, but secondary Europe has much more potential.
 
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Polot
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:36 pm

bridge29 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
What routes should we expect to see launched? Could any routes to Africa we viable? Secondary cities in Deep South America?



That would be my question, most assume TA but I think the game changer would be SA.. Just about every city in South America would open up to their MIA hub. I could see a half dozen new flights between secondary Brazilian and Argentina cities alone..


How so? Europe has almost twice the population of South America. Europe drives more tourism to/from the U.S. Secondary South America would be a plus, but secondary Europe has much more potential.

Europe also has much much much more competition than South America. That is the issue. The XLR won’t make any route work despite whatever competition is out there. TATL is going to be a bloodbath soon when all the LCCs get their XLRs too and start flying across the pond.

In the future we are going to look back at the “good days” when ALL flights TATL had free baggage and meals, on widebodies, and not just select carriers on select premium routes.
 
bridge29
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:54 pm

Polot wrote:
bridge29 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:


That would be my question, most assume TA but I think the game changer would be SA.. Just about every city in South America would open up to their MIA hub. I could see a half dozen new flights between secondary Brazilian and Argentina cities alone..


How so? Europe has almost twice the population of South America. Europe drives more tourism to/from the U.S. Secondary South America would be a plus, but secondary Europe has much more potential.

Europe also has much much much more competition than South America. That is the issue. The XLR won’t make any route work despite whatever competition is out there. TATL is going to be a bloodbath soon when all the LCCs get their XLRs too and start flying across the pond.

In the future we are going to look back at the “good days” when ALL flights TATL had free baggage and meals, on widebodies, and not just select carriers on select premium routes.


You're right about more competition to Europe but no one is arguing the XLR makes "any" route work. Do you really see multiple carriers on routes like PHL-HEL, PHL-HAM, PHL-OPO (speculation on routes, of course)? XLR makes routes like those work direct from the U.S. by AA, whereas before they didn't have the right aircraft.
 
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Polot
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:58 pm

bridge29 wrote:
Polot wrote:
bridge29 wrote:

How so? Europe has almost twice the population of South America. Europe drives more tourism to/from the U.S. Secondary South America would be a plus, but secondary Europe has much more potential.

Europe also has much much much more competition than South America. That is the issue. The XLR won’t make any route work despite whatever competition is out there. TATL is going to be a bloodbath soon when all the LCCs get their XLRs too and start flying across the pond.

In the future we are going to look back at the “good days” when ALL flights TATL had free baggage and meals, on widebodies, and not just select carriers on select premium routes.


You're right about more competition to Europe but no one is arguing the XLR makes "any" route work. Do you really see multiple carriers on routes like PHL-HEL, PHL-HAM, PHL-OPO (speculation on routes, of course)? XLR makes routes like those work direct from the U.S. by AA, whereas before they didn't have the right aircraft.

On those specific routes? No. But LCCs are going to fragment the traffic. Those routes are relying on connections, not O&D. Depending on price people will connect elsewhere on different airlines. Just imagine if [U]LCCs on both sides of the Atlantic start cooperating.
 
airbazar
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:11 pm

juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

I feel that if AA were to order 50 A321LR/XLR it would be game over for the 797. There's simply not enough demand in that segment for 2 manufacturers and AA is one of the largest customers for that plane.
 
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Polot
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:22 pm

airbazar wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

I feel that if AA were to order 50 A321LR/XLR it would be game over for the 797. There's simply not enough demand in that segment for 2 manufacturers and AA is one of the largest customers for that plane.

I see room for both at AA. Like UA said, the XLR solves the range issue...but it is still the size of a 757. 797 would have a place in fleet replacing 788 routes where that plane is being used sub-optimally (since they are replacing 767s) and to replace the A332s (most of which are not on demanding routes) that will be getting old by the time 797s start coming out in numbers.
 
estorilm
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:37 pm

juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

Uhm, the opposite would be true. Why would an airline buying a competing product (aka potential frames for Boeing at one point) HELP the business case for the 797? It only further buries the margins for the thing. Manufacturers don't decide to launch planes out of jealousy, they do it out of demand (which is decidedly lower now that a perfectly adequate long range NB is available through AB).

No one is going to wait 6-8 years for something they can get in 2-3, especially if it only offers ~4-5% advantage in SFC - which will likely be offset by either a) delays or b) an almost-certainly-higher acquisition, operating, and training (ie commonality) cost.

I think this entire NMA thing will blow over, AB will somehow end up with the entire NB TATL market (who would have guessed that 10 years ago?!) and Boeing will launch a replacement family for the 737.
 
maverick4002
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:22 pm

estorilm wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

Uhm, the opposite would be true. Why would an airline buying a competing product (aka potential frames for Boeing at one point) HELP the business case for the 797? It only further buries the margins for the thing. Manufacturers don't decide to launch planes out of jealousy, they do it out of demand (which is decidedly lower now that a perfectly adequate long range NB is available through AB).

No one is going to wait 6-8 years for something they can get in 2-3, especially if it only offers ~4-5% advantage in SFC - which will likely be offset by either a) delays or b) an almost-certainly-higher acquisition, operating, and training (ie commonality) cost.

I think this entire NMA thing will blow over, AB will somehow end up with the entire NB TATL market (who would have guessed that 10 years ago?!) and Boeing will launch a replacement family for the 737.


Wasnt it AA's order of the A320NEO that spurred (aka HELPED) the Max come to fruition?
 
Ishrion
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:26 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
estorilm wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

Uhm, the opposite would be true. Why would an airline buying a competing product (aka potential frames for Boeing at one point) HELP the business case for the 797? It only further buries the margins for the thing. Manufacturers don't decide to launch planes out of jealousy, they do it out of demand (which is decidedly lower now that a perfectly adequate long range NB is available through AB).

No one is going to wait 6-8 years for something they can get in 2-3, especially if it only offers ~4-5% advantage in SFC - which will likely be offset by either a) delays or b) an almost-certainly-higher acquisition, operating, and training (ie commonality) cost.

I think this entire NMA thing will blow over, AB will somehow end up with the entire NB TATL market (who would have guessed that 10 years ago?!) and Boeing will launch a replacement family for the 737.


Wasnt it AA's order of the A320NEO that spurred (aka HELPED) the Max come to fruition?


I believe it was AA’s entire Airbus order back in 2011 which no longer had AA as a pure Boeing operator that sparked Boeing to rush the MAX?

Or did AA order the MAX along with new Airbus aircraft.
 
Austin787
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:37 pm

Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
Secondary Europe from PHL/JFK was attached to my original intel on the subject.

Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.
 
JonNYC
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:05 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.

No, not the plan.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 889
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:25 pm

Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
American Airlines really need to place an order for A321XLR to push Boeing to finally launch 797. AA, please do it.

I feel that if AA were to order 50 A321LR/XLR it would be game over for the 797. There's simply not enough demand in that segment for 2 manufacturers and AA is one of the largest customers for that plane.

I see room for both at AA. Like UA said, the XLR solves the range issue...but it is still the size of a 757. 797 would have a place in fleet replacing 788 routes where that plane is being used sub-optimally (since they are replacing 767s) and to replace the A332s (most of which are not on demanding routes) that will be getting old by the time 797s start coming out in numbers.


The 332 has been used on single daily PHL-SFO-PHL and PHL-LAX-PHL rotations, for what that's worth. As for the 788/789 being used "sub-optimally," considering AA rotates W/B planes hub-to-hub to reposition them for international travel (see: 77W MIA-LAX; 788/789 DFW-ORD), I wonder if the 788 or whatever ultimately replaces the 763 on the PHL-MIA reposition rotations might be enough for that AA needs for those international flights (PHL-TATL; MIA-LATAM).

That said, I don't think it would be "game over" for the 797 vis a vis AA or the US market (last I checked, DL and UA are also looking for 757/767 replacements as well) if/when AA confirms the A321LR/XLR. All you have to do is look at IAG's plans to buy up to 200 737-8/737-10 frames from Boeing on top of their existing A320 family in service and on order as proof that both A & B have a place at a large airline group.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
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Polot
Posts: 9378
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:31 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I feel that if AA were to order 50 A321LR/XLR it would be game over for the 797. There's simply not enough demand in that segment for 2 manufacturers and AA is one of the largest customers for that plane.

I see room for both at AA. Like UA said, the XLR solves the range issue...but it is still the size of a 757. 797 would have a place in fleet replacing 788 routes where that plane is being used sub-optimally (since they are replacing 767s) and to replace the A332s (most of which are not on demanding routes) that will be getting old by the time 797s start coming out in numbers.


The 332 has been used on single daily PHL-SFO-PHL and PHL-LAX-PHL rotations, for what that's worth. As for the 788/789 being used "sub-optimally," considering AA rotates W/B planes hub-to-hub to reposition them for international travel (see: 77W MIA-LAX; 788/789 DFW-ORD), I wonder if the 788 or whatever ultimately replaces the 763 on the PHL-MIA reposition rotations might be enough for that AA needs for those international flights (PHL-TATL; MIA-LATAM).

That said, I don't think it would be "game over" for the 797 vis a vis AA or the US market (last I checked, DL and UA are also looking for 757/767 replacements as well) if/when AA confirms the A321LR/XLR. All you have to do is look at IAG's plans to buy up to 200 737-8/737-10 frames from Boeing on top of their existing A320 family in service and on order as proof that both A & B have a place at a large airline group.

By suboptimally I meant shorter international segments, not the domestic routes which are typically flown for utilization or repositioning purposes. Routes like CLT-MAD that are less than 4000 nm but may need more volume than a A321XLR.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:43 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.


There are so few B777 routes left in JFK. Have a look yourself then come back. There is no way A321XLR will replace AA's B777 JFK routes. It will be for the new routes or routes JFK used to fly.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:50 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.

You expect AA to start flying from NYC to places like London, Madrid, Buenos Aires and Sao Paolo on an A321?
Last edited by Brickell305 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
PW100 wrote:
Would that (finally) allow them to make good use of the full potential of their great JFK terminal?
Or will they (again) have their lunch eaten by B6 (and/or DL)?


Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.


That makes little to no sense. You really see JFK-GRU/LHR/EZE etc on anA321? Those are high volume routes. Granted I don’t even think JFK GRu/EZE is even within the range of that aircraft,


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Austin787
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:02 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Lately they've been "slot squatting" and cutting down routes/frequencies temporarily because of the runway construction at JFK.

These A321XLRs should allow AA to launch underserved/unserved routes and potentially bring more service back to JFK.

If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.


There are so few B777 routes left in JFK. Have a look yourself then come back. There is no way A321XLR will replace AA's B777 JFK routes. It will be for the new routes or routes JFK used to fly.

AA's current 777 routes at JFK: BCN, EZE, LHR, MAD, MXP, CDG, GRU, GIG, FCO. The JFK-Europe routes are within the proposed range of the A321XLR, though JFK-South American is outside that aircraft's range. With the way AA is cutting at JFK, it wouldn't surprise me if they decide to replace the 777 routes to Europe with A321XLR. And if AA were to add new JFK flights, I bet Delta and JetBlue will try to make it difficult for AA to succeed.
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1919
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 pm

Sounds like they are going to order 50 321XLR's.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Brickell305
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 pm

Austin787 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.


There are so few B777 routes left in JFK. Have a look yourself then come back. There is no way A321XLR will replace AA's B777 JFK routes. It will be for the new routes or routes JFK used to fly.

AA's current 777 routes at JFK: BCN, EZE, LHR, MAD, MXP, CDG, GRU, GIG, FCO. The JFK-Europe routes are within the proposed range of the A321XLR, though JFK-South American is outside that aircraft's range. With the way AA is cutting at JFK, it wouldn't surprise me if they decide to replace the 777 routes to Europe with A321XLR. And if AA were to add new JFK flights, I bet Delta and JetBlue will try to make it difficult for AA to succeed.

You do realize that the European routes within the range of the A321XLR include London and Madrid (AA partner hubs)? It would make more sense for AA to drop JFK-LHR entirely and hand it off to BA than to fly an A321XLR on that route. Neither of those is remotely likely to happen anytime soon though.
 
DFWuser
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 5:52 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:13 pm

Austin787 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
If AA brings the A321XLR to JFK (assuming they order the plane), I think it's more likely they simply replace existing 777 routes with A321XLR.


There are so few B777 routes left in JFK. Have a look yourself then come back. There is no way A321XLR will replace AA's B777 JFK routes. It will be for the new routes or routes JFK used to fly.

AA's current 777 routes at JFK: BCN, EZE, LHR, MAD, MXP, CDG, GRU, GIG, FCO. The JFK-Europe routes are within the proposed range of the A321XLR, though JFK-South American is outside that aircraft's range. With the way AA is cutting at JFK, it wouldn't surprise me if they decide to replace the 777 routes to Europe with A321XLR. And if AA were to add new JFK flights, I bet Delta and JetBlue will try to make it difficult for AA to succeed.


Why would AA replace any of these routes with an A321 especially the lucrative LHR shuttle and a joint venture with BA ? They even have the premium-heavy 77W deployed on GRU as well.
SF3 CR7 E75 M88 M90 L10 319 320 321 32B 332 333 343 388 712 722 732 733 73G 738 744 752 763 772 773 77W 788 789 78J
 
airzona11
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:33 pm

Long haul, thin routes, or long haul narrowbody fights have yielded bankruptcy filings this year.AA is not going to swap core routes with a narrowbody.
 
wenders825
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:38 pm

AA makes money on the JFK 777 routes that remain. this would be used to relaunch thinner routes like DUB, ZRH, etc and maybe even bring back stuff like FRA and AMS that have more competition. it's clear to see
 
JonNYC
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:36 pm

This article suggests a breakdown of the order:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american ... 30124.html

"The source said 30 of the planes would be converted from an existing order for another model, and the remaining 20 involved the exercise of options"
 
mikejepp
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:47 pm

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:45 pm

JonNYC wrote:
This article suggests a breakdown of the order:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american ... 30124.html

"The source said 30 of the planes would be converted from an existing order for another model, and the remaining 20 involved the exercise of options"


Logically, this would mean conversions from the A321neo on order.... but is there any chance all those orders still exist and this is some holdover from the A350 deal?
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:49 pm

Will AA go with all aisle access J similar to the current 32T F? I could see something like 10-12J, 12-16PEY, the rest Y. I'm sure as usual AA won't install enough premium seats and then regret it later.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 17280
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Re: RUMOR: American to order A321LR

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:51 pm

Polot wrote:
TATL is going to be a bloodbath soon when all the LCCs get their XLRs too and start flying across the pond.

In the future we are going to look back at the “good days” when ALL flights TATL had free baggage and meals, on widebodies, and not just select carriers on select premium routes.


Great! I can't wait - more choice and more competition is great for the consumer. Adapt or die.

One man's "good old days" is another's ancient history that's irrelevant in today's world.
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