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LAXintl
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SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:20 pm

The man brought in to lead a turnaround has submitted his resignation.

Its pretty clear there is not much of a commitment to move ahead with the tough changes that are needed if the airline will become anything more than a drain on the national treasury.



SAA CEO Vuyani Jarana has resigned

According to his resignation letter to SAA board chairperson JB Magwaza, the CEO unpacked how uncertainty about funding and slow decision-making processes were delaying the airline's turnaround strategy. "The strategy is being systemically undermined, and as the Group Chief Executive Officer, I can no longer be able to assure the board and the public that the LTTS (long term turnaround strategy) is achievable," he said.

Jarana was appointed CEO in November 2017 and had the challenging task of bringing back the airline to financial health. At the time of his appointment, SAA had R9.2bn in debt that was maturing on November 28, 2017. Under Jarana's watch, a revised corporate plan was developed and approved by National Treasury in March 2018. This plan required funding of R21.7bn and would see SAA breakeven by 2021.

"I spend most of my time dealing with liquidity and solvency issues. Lack of commitment to fund SAA, is systematically undermining the implementation of the strategy making it increasingly difficult to succeed."


https://www.fin24.com/Economy/saa-ceo-v ... s-20190602
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MalevTU134
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:49 pm

Raise your hand if you are surprised.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:02 pm

Have to admire the man for taking on the task, seems his legs were cut from under him.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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B747-437B
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:45 pm

If Vuyani couldn’t make it work, nobody will be able to. That is simply the reality. He is the first SAA CEO who actually won the respect, trust and backing of the majority of staff for his turnaround plan. Where that will go now, I don’t know. Even SAA’s top management are in shock (although maybe not surprised) over the decision – all of the managers I’ve spoken to since the news broke are still struggling to believe it.

As Vuyani noted, 60% of the problems with SAA are the structures for interaction between the management, the board and the Government which don’t allow them to be agile and responsive to market forces. Although a newcomer to aviation, he was politically nimble and a superb organisational manager – that gave him the best chance of solving these structural issues. He also had a fierce personal determination to succeed in this role. If he is throwing in the towel, I really begin to doubt if the SAA issue can ever be truly resolved.

What prompted this and why? The answer is probably found in the resignation letter where he's basically said that DPE (led by Pravin Gordhan) is not committing the levels of explicit and implicit support that the turnaround plan required. Certainly Tito Mboweni wasn't doing them any favours, but Gordhan was expected to be more supportive. Once Gordhan was confirmed as returning as MPE this week, I'm sure he felt that the impasse would continue on that front and that this was the only real option for him personally.
 
jfk777
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:38 pm

SAA needs to ditch the A340.
 
KingOrGod
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:28 pm

jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...
 
LH658
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:31 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


I think it cause SAA is government ran airline, and LH isn't.
 
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andrefranca
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:34 pm

oh woooooow, I am so surprised..... NOT.
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
MalevTU134
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:40 pm

LH658 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


I think it cause SAA is government ran airline, and LH isn't.

Really? You think?
 
KingOrGod
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:41 pm

LH658 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


I think it cause SAA is government ran airline, and LH isn't.


Na klar.

But my point was that swapping 9 aircraft out of a fleet won't magically make SAA profitable. Even if they operated the brand newest A320 NEO and A350, they'd still be a bottomless pit of wastage.

SAA is beyond help. As I said years ago, it's time for it to die. The gap will be filled.

Why should SAA be given unlimited funding to "turn around" aka embezzle, while airlines like Comair must use their own resources to remain profitable??
 
aviationaware
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:07 pm

Kudos to him for stating so clearly and openly what's wrong with SAA.
 
skystar767
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:05 am

Sad SAA was one of the best airlines in Africa and now they have turned it in to third world airline. It’s all about greed and knowing nothing about running an airline. Am not going to say it but most of you know what about talking about.
 
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janders
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:50 am

"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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Slug71
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:05 am

jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


They are rumored to get 2 A350s. But the A340 is the smallest of their problems.


The government is keeping all the money for themselves. They are insanely corrupt.Everything has been run into the ground. The military has been stripped of their budget and become a clown show of what it once was. The defense industry is pretty much gone. It was really good.
They can't keep the power on (Eskom has become a joke). They went into drought with massive water restrictions. Knew it was coming for 20 years.Farmers are being murdered left and right. The Police are a joke. People are being murdered in numbers. Ridiculously high rape crimes. Mostly the criminals have guns.
Millions of skilled South Africans have fled. NZ, Australia, Canada, UK, USA etc...have millions of South Africans. There should be many profitable routes.
Houses are Prisons/Forts, with barbed wire on 6ft high walls, electric fences, multiple locks on doors, security gates, burglar bars in front of the windows.......no thanks.
While many countries got rid of the death penalty and many others demanding/condemning it, South Africans are crying for its return.

I dont see why IAG would want SAA. But it might be SAA's only hope.
 
jfk777
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:06 am

KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


Two airlines operating the same airplane don't have the same economics. LH is a leading airline with premium yields selling lots of Business and First Class that passengers actually pay thousands of Pounds, Euros, Dollars and hundred of thousands of Yen for. SAA in their wildest dreams of avarice could never charge what LH can. SAA also operates some ridiculous 16 hour flights to JFK, the longest LH is 14 hours to Argentina, shorter flights use less fuel. JNB to Peking is not a profitable endeavor. SAA has made lousy choices.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:30 am

SAA's biggest problem is its governance structure - nothing will change until that is overhauled.
The South African government treats SAA it like it is a public utility with no competition - lots of bureaucracy and political interference - not a public company that needs to be nimble and able to respond to market forces in an appropriate manner.

The South African treasury should not be micromanaging SAA's fleet plans, the parliament should not be micromanaging their hiring practices and network planning - SAA must hire competent managers and give them free reign to manage.
 
shankly
Posts: 1374
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:48 am

Flying SAA on Friday.....hope they last until then!
L1011 - P F M
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 126
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:08 am

jfk777 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


Two airlines operating the same airplane don't have the same economics. LH is a leading airline with premium yields selling lots of Business and First Class that passengers actually pay thousands of Pounds, Euros, Dollars and hundred of thousands of Yen for. SAA in their wildest dreams of avarice could never charge what LH can. SAA also operates some ridiculous 16 hour flights to JFK, the longest LH is 14 hours to Argentina, shorter flights use less fuel. JNB to Peking is not a profitable endeavor. SAA has made lousy choices.


You brought it up... why does SAA not have F? Because they're rubbish and can barely compete with their J. If they could attract pax they'd be printing money. But more and more are rather going to go elsewhere with a solid premium product. Have you even been in the "premium lounge" of SAA at JNB? That's absolutely nothing to do with A346 economics.

SAA Operated 742/743/744 in their heyday, with at least 2 747 to LHR daily. The good old Blue DIamond class was worth it.

SAA would not have fared any better with a 777 when the A346 / B77E were up for tender. Fact is with SAA their problem doesn't lie with their fleet.

How come Comair did very well flying paid for rust buckets like B722 and B732 and SAA were making record losses with A320 in their fleet? Standing by to be impressed again.
 
jfk777
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:23 am

KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:

An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


Two airlines operating the same airplane don't have the same economics. LH is a leading airline with premium yields selling lots of Business and First Class that passengers actually pay thousands of Pounds, Euros, Dollars and hundred of thousands of Yen for. SAA in their wildest dreams of avarice could never charge what LH can. SAA also operates some ridiculous 16 hour flights to JFK, the longest LH is 14 hours to Argentina, shorter flights use less fuel. JNB to Peking is not a profitable endeavor. SAA has made lousy choices.


You brought it up... why does SAA not have F? Because they're rubbish and can barely compete with their J. If they could attract pax they'd be printing money. But more and more are rather going to go elsewhere with a solid premium product. Have you even been in the "premium lounge" of SAA at JNB? That's absolutely nothing to do with A346 economics.

SAA Operated 742/743/744 in their heyday, with at least 2 747 to LHR daily. The good old Blue DIamond class was worth it.

SAA would not have fared any better with a 777 when the A346 / B77E were up for tender. Fact is with SAA their problem doesn't lie with their fleet.

How come Comair did very well flying paid for rust buckets like B722 and B732 and SAA were making record losses with A320 in their fleet? Standing by to be impressed again.


King or GOD, what ever is said will never satisfy you. you know hy Comair makes $$ and SAA looses $$.

Am very aware of SAA long 747 history but today things are different. When SAA flew 747 to London and JFK Emirates didn't exist, today EK carries 20% of the Johannesburg to LHR traffic which explains why SAA is down to once daily A330 on the LHR route.
 
evanb
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:53 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
You brought it up... why does SAA not have F? Because they're rubbish and can barely compete with their J. If they could attract pax they'd be printing money. But more and more are rather going to go elsewhere with a solid premium product. Have you even been in the "premium lounge" of SAA at JNB? That's absolutely nothing to do with A346 economics.


SAA gave up F when they withdrew the B743/B742/B74L and introduced the A346/A343 which had a world leading flatbed circa 2002 comparisons. At the time none of their competitors had flatbeds in J. At the and since then there has been a continued consolidation of airlines removing F given the high quality J products available. It has little to do with SAA.

KingOrGod wrote:
SAA would not have fared any better with a 777 when the A346 / B77E were up for tender. Fact is with SAA their problem doesn't lie with their fleet.


Agreed, SAA's problem has nothing to do with the fleet, and I'd add has nothing to do with the on-board product. It's purely years of very poor governance and looting which has put the balance sheet in a horrific state.

KingOrGod wrote:
How come Comair did very well flying paid for rust buckets like B722 and B732 and SAA were making record losses with A320 in their fleet? Standing by to be impressed again.


This is a bit of a strawman. Comair withdrew all the B722s and most of their B732s well before SAA started making record losses with their current A320 fleet. Furthermore, most of those B722s and B732s were leased, some even from ... SAA.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 341
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:27 pm

Slug71 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


They are rumored to get 2 A350s. But the A340 is the smallest of their problems.


The government is keeping all the money for themselves. They are insanely corrupt.Everything has been run into the ground. The military has been stripped of their budget and become a clown show of what it once was. The defense industry is pretty much gone. It was really good.
They can't keep the power on (Eskom has become a joke). They went into drought with massive water restrictions. Knew it was coming for 20 years.Farmers are being murdered left and right. The Police are a joke. People are being murdered in numbers. Ridiculously high rape crimes. Mostly the criminals have guns.
Millions of skilled South Africans have fled. NZ, Australia, Canada, UK, USA etc...have millions of South Africans. There should be many profitable routes.
Houses are Prisons/Forts, with barbed wire on 6ft high walls, electric fences, multiple locks on doors, security gates, burglar bars in front of the windows.......no thanks.
While many countries got rid of the death penalty and many others demanding/condemning it, South Africans are crying for its return.

I dont see why IAG would want SAA. But it might be SAA's only hope.

Thanks for speaking the truth. That is getting hard to do.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:45 am

aviationaware wrote:
Kudos to him for stating so clearly and openly what's wrong with SAA.

I raise a virtual glass to his candor. He has earned my respect.

Bummer for SAA
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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mr02
Posts: 138
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:38 am

KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:

An that's your best advice LOL. PMSL.

So why is LH successful while operating A343/A346/B744/B748/A388...

Come on... we're waiting with baited breath...


Two airlines operating the same airplane don't have the same economics. LH is a leading airline with premium yields selling lots of Business and First Class that passengers actually pay thousands of Pounds, Euros, Dollars and hundred of thousands of Yen for. SAA in their wildest dreams of avarice could never charge what LH can. SAA also operates some ridiculous 16 hour flights to JFK, the longest LH is 14 hours to Argentina, shorter flights use less fuel. JNB to Peking is not a profitable endeavor. SAA has made lousy choices.


You brought it up... why does SAA not have F? Because they're rubbish and can barely compete with their J. If they could attract pax they'd be printing money. But more and more are rather going to go elsewhere with a solid premium product. Have you even been in the "premium lounge" of SAA at JNB? That's absolutely nothing to do with A346 economics.

SAA Operated 742/743/744 in their heyday, with at least 2 747 to LHR daily. The good old Blue DIamond class was worth it.

SAA would not have fared any better with a 777 when the A346 / B77E were up for tender. Fact is with SAA their problem doesn't lie with their fleet.

How come Comair did very well flying paid for rust buckets like B722 and B732 and SAA were making record losses with A320 in their fleet? Standing by to be impressed again.

Ah the good old days. Must've been nice,hey!
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:59 pm

evanb wrote:
KingOrGod wrote:
SAA would not have fared any better with a 777 when the A346 / B77E were up for tender. Fact is with SAA their problem doesn't lie with their fleet.


Agreed, SAA's problem has nothing to do with the fleet, and I'd add has nothing to do with the on-board product. It's purely years of very poor governance and looting which has put the balance sheet in a horrific state.



I agree fleet is not the issue, especially given their main hub is JNB they have to account for hot-and-high conditions on their longer flights.

I will say the on-board product has suffered, but again that's probably tied to poor governance and looting as you say. Hard to pay to improve the seats or IFE on your A346, which flies your flagship routes, when the money is all being squirelled away.

I flew CPT-JNB-JFK last year, and got lucky that the A320 or whatever that was supposed to fly CPT-JNB got subbed out for an A332. The A332 was quite nice and modern. The A346 has seen far better days.
 
evanb
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:12 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
I agree fleet is not the issue, especially given their main hub is JNB they have to account for hot-and-high conditions on their longer flights.

I will say the on-board product has suffered, but again that's probably tied to poor governance and looting as you say. Hard to pay to improve the seats or IFE on your A346, which flies your flagship routes, when the money is all being squirelled away.

I flew CPT-JNB-JFK last year, and got lucky that the A320 or whatever that was supposed to fly CPT-JNB got subbed out for an A332. The A332 was quite nice and modern. The A346 has seen far better days.


It's a mixed bag. They have a tired product on the A340-300s and A340-600s mostly because they're been on the cusp of replacing these for several years. There is no point investing in updating the product if you're going to replace it. The governance issues have played havoc with their intent to replace them though. The A330-200s have a newer version of the old product and is acceptable. The A330-300s, the newest aircraft, have an excellent product. But honestly, when you compare to BA, even their old business class is comparable if not better than BA.

Same goes for short haul. A319s have an older product, while the A320s have a state of the art short haul product when compared to the competition.
 
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B747-437B
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:38 pm

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article ... his-board/

Looks like things are going to turn nasty between Vuyani and the Board.
 
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Slash787
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:13 pm

So IF I became the next CEO, I would order some A321neo, B789, A330neo and A35K, even though I won't give a guarantee that the airline will make some profits, but well at least they will have some new good aircrafts.
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 513
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:57 pm

evanb wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
I agree fleet is not the issue, especially given their main hub is JNB they have to account for hot-and-high conditions on their longer flights.

I will say the on-board product has suffered, but again that's probably tied to poor governance and looting as you say. Hard to pay to improve the seats or IFE on your A346, which flies your flagship routes, when the money is all being squirelled away.

I flew CPT-JNB-JFK last year, and got lucky that the A320 or whatever that was supposed to fly CPT-JNB got subbed out for an A332. The A332 was quite nice and modern. The A346 has seen far better days.


It's a mixed bag. They have a tired product on the A340-300s and A340-600s mostly because they're been on the cusp of replacing these for several years. There is no point investing in updating the product if you're going to replace it. The governance issues have played havoc with their intent to replace them though. The A330-200s have a newer version of the old product and is acceptable. The A330-300s, the newest aircraft, have an excellent product. But honestly, when you compare to BA, even their old business class is comparable if not better than BA.

Same goes for short haul. A319s have an older product, while the A320s have a state of the art short haul product when compared to the competition.


I think you're right, it was the A333 that had the really nice product that I flew CPT-JNB.

Totally agree around the A346 fleet. Shame there's no end in sight to where they can actually re-fit the bird with updated seats and IFE.

Thankfully UA started EWR-CPT so I can by-pass it anyway.
 
Mboyle1988
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:38 am

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:00 am

Slug71 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
SAA needs to ditch the A340.


They are rumored to get 2 A350s. But the A340 is the smallest of their problems.


The government is keeping all the money for themselves. They are insanely corrupt.Everything has been run into the ground. The military has been stripped of their budget and become a clown show of what it once was. The defense industry is pretty much gone. It was really good.
They can't keep the power on (Eskom has become a joke). They went into drought with massive water restrictions. Knew it was coming for 20 years.Farmers are being murdered left and right. The Police are a joke. People are being murdered in numbers. Ridiculously high rape crimes. Mostly the criminals have guns.
Millions of skilled South Africans have fled. NZ, Australia, Canada, UK, USA etc...have millions of South Africans. There should be many profitable routes.
Houses are Prisons/Forts, with barbed wire on 6ft high walls, electric fences, multiple locks on doors, security gates, burglar bars in front of the windows.......no thanks.
While many countries got rid of the death penalty and many others demanding/condemning it, South Africans are crying for its return.

I dont see why IAG would want SAA. But it might be SAA's only hope.


The fruits of racial politics, folks. Really sad end to a once proud country.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:11 am

It’s sad for South African and SAA if the decline is as true as one only senses from afar from the sterilized read between the lines and Pravda like, local American National news and media reports we receive here in the US.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:25 am

jfk777 wrote:
King or GOD, what ever is said will never satisfy you. you know hy Comair makes $$ and SAA looses $$.



Not when the best argument is, and I quote somebody, oh hold in it's actually you, that say:

"SAA need to ditch the A340".

They have problems evidently you cannot comprehend. :-\

@ evan, 2002 is a long time ago to be a leader in the flat-race, don't you think? I disagree, on-board product is well below par today. Springbok J (on the A346 anyway) doesn't even come close to most other carriers product, be it the seat, or the cabin crew resting their feet in ice-buckets, nor the lounge.

Sigh. Whatever folks. Give them more money. Let them buy A350.

It. Won't. Change. A. Thing.
 
trees
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:43 am

KingOrGod wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
2002 is a long time ago to be a leader in the flat-race, don't you think? I disagree, on-board product is well below par today. Springbok J (on the A346 anyway) doesn't even come close to most other carriers product, be it the seat, or the cabin crew resting their feet in ice-buckets, nor the lounge.


The new J product, however, is very competitive.

KingOrGod wrote:
Sigh. Whatever folks. Give them more money. Let them buy A350.

It. Won't. Change. A. Thing.


Evidently.

First A350 due in Q4 though, if the airline lasts that long.
 
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B747-437B
Posts: 8841
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:25 am

https://citizen.co.za/business/2140460/ ... terim-ceo/

SAA has appointed Zuks Ramasia as Acting CEO with effect from Monday.

Also, Adam Voss (ex-Jet Airways) has been appointed as the new CEO of SAA Technical.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:30 am

B747-437B wrote:

Also, Adam Voss (ex-Jet Airways) has been appointed as the new CEO of SAA Technical.


Fox, henhouse.
 
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janders
Moderator
Posts: 826
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:18 pm

Company looking for a permanent CEO. Proposed qualifications: “Appropriate experience and expertise to stabilise the company and to oversee the implementation of the long-term turnaround strategy.”


https://atwonline.com/people/south-afri ... nterim-ceo
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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mercure1
Posts: 4363
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Re: SAA CEO resigns

Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:00 pm

Now the next chairman resigned

SAA BOARD CHAIR MAGWAZA RESIGNS
https://ewn.co.za/2019/07/11/saa-board- ... za-resigns

SAA Board chair resigns
https://www.fin24.com/Economy/saa-board ... s-20190711

Rudderless ship SAA has become
mercure f-wtcc

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos