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BA777FO
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:24 am

ELBOB wrote:
If customers had any principles they'd ignore BA on this route. Given that BA ignored them for 10 years.

Sadly, they'll book whomever is cheaper at the moment. Which just means airlines will continue to treat customers and routes like disposable items. Why would any airline show any loyalty to a route when it could just suspend it and resume a decade later with no consequences?


BA stopped the route due to very serious security concerns. At no point will BA put its staff or customers at undue risk. Those security concerns have now been addressed and BA is able to resume service to Islamabad. Service to Lahore and Karachi is still deemed too dangerous as far as I'm aware.

The route seems to be doing well too. Decent loads in all cabins.
 
tonystan
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:12 pm

ELBOB wrote:
If customers had any principles they'd ignore BA on this route. Given that BA ignored them for 10 years.

Sadly, they'll book whomever is cheaper at the moment. Which just means airlines will continue to treat customers and routes like disposable items. Why would any airline show any loyalty to a route when it could just suspend it and resume a decade later with no consequences?


And these are the sort of stupid petty comments which have no place in a mature forum such as airliners.net.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:21 pm

tonystan wrote:
ELBOB wrote:
If customers had any principles they'd ignore BA on this route. Given that BA ignored them for 10 years.

Sadly, they'll book whomever is cheaper at the moment. Which just means airlines will continue to treat customers and routes like disposable items. Why would any airline show any loyalty to a route when it could just suspend it and resume a decade later with no consequences?


And these are the sort of stupid petty comments which have no place in a mature forum such as airliners.net.

Agree
 
SQ317
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:40 pm

The return BA260 yesterday went straight up to a cruise altitude of FL430, never seen that before (the inaugural BA260 went to FL400 and then FL430 over the Caspian). I've only ever really seen this on TUI 788s doing short flights from the UK to the Med and the like.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:02 pm

BA777FO wrote:
BA stopped the route due to very serious security concerns. At no point will BA put its staff or customers at undue risk. Those security concerns have now been addressed and BA is able to resume service to Islamabad. Service to Lahore and Karachi is still deemed too dangerous as far as I'm aware.

The route seems to be doing well too. Decent loads in all cabins.


Agree with everything you said except the part about LHE. That is evident by the fact that BA (and LH) are currently in the process of evaluating it for service.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

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Rajahdhani
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:22 pm

I am surprised that they took the 787 on this route, and not a 777 - but I guess it may mature to that in time. With the baggage allowance of just one checked bag for free - BA is likely making decent amounts on additional baggage, or freight. Here's to hoping that they do well, and are able to expand.
 
KingB123
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:35 pm

SQ317 wrote:
The return BA260 yesterday went straight up to a cruise altitude of FL430, never seen that before (the inaugural BA260 went to FL400 and then FL430 over the Caspian). I've only ever really seen this on TUI 788s doing short flights from the UK to the Med and the like.



According to History of PIA forum / Pakistani Media (the pakistani aviation forum) this flight goes straight up to certain altitudes from takeoff and changes throughout the flight very quickly due to security arrangements for the flight. Apparently this is due to ensuring safe flying over reigons of pakistan and afghanistan once it flies out of Islamabad.

Also:

" security forces snipers are positioned on hills/mountains around Islamabad International Airport for the safety of arriving/departing British Airways aircraft."

" security level during BA flight at isb airport is very high. Situation will ease down once flight operations will normalize.
Due to risk BA flights maintaining or above FL240 before entering KPK and FL 280 or above before entering Afgan airspace"

http://historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopi ... 2&start=60
King B
 
SQ317
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 pm

KingB123 wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
The return BA260 yesterday went straight up to a cruise altitude of FL430, never seen that before (the inaugural BA260 went to FL400 and then FL430 over the Caspian). I've only ever really seen this on TUI 788s doing short flights from the UK to the Med and the like.



According to History of PIA forum / Pakistani Media (the pakistani aviation forum) this flight goes straight up to certain altitudes from takeoff and changes throughout the flight very quickly due to security arrangements for the flight. Apparently this is due to ensuring safe flying over reigons of pakistan and afghanistan once it flies out of Islamabad.

Also:

" security forces snipers are positioned on hills/mountains around Islamabad International Airport for the safety of arriving/departing British Airways aircraft."

" security level during BA flight at isb airport is very high. Situation will ease down once flight operations will normalize.
Due to risk BA flights maintaining or above FL240 before entering KPK and FL 280 or above before entering Afgan airspace"

http://historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopi ... 2&start=60


Wow, that's an impressive security operation
 
BA777FO
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:52 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
BA stopped the route due to very serious security concerns. At no point will BA put its staff or customers at undue risk. Those security concerns have now been addressed and BA is able to resume service to Islamabad. Service to Lahore and Karachi is still deemed too dangerous as far as I'm aware.

The route seems to be doing well too. Decent loads in all cabins.


Agree with everything you said except the part about LHE. That is evident by the fact that BA (and LH) are currently in the process of evaluating it for service.


And there's a reason why it hasn't happened so far. BA is constantly evaluating a lot of new cities to serve. It doesn't necessarily mean anything will come of it any time soon.
 
airboss787
Posts: 261
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:25 pm

KingB123 wrote:
SQ317 wrote:
The return BA260 yesterday went straight up to a cruise altitude of FL430, never seen that before (the inaugural BA260 went to FL400 and then FL430 over the Caspian). I've only ever really seen this on TUI 788s doing short flights from the UK to the Med and the like.



According to History of PIA forum / Pakistani Media (the pakistani aviation forum) this flight goes straight up to certain altitudes from takeoff and changes throughout the flight very quickly due to security arrangements for the flight. Apparently this is due to ensuring safe flying over reigons of pakistan and afghanistan once it flies out of Islamabad.

Also:

" security forces snipers are positioned on hills/mountains around Islamabad International Airport for the safety of arriving/departing British Airways aircraft."

" security level during BA flight at isb airport is very high. Situation will ease down once flight operations will normalize.
Due to risk BA flights maintaining or above FL240 before entering KPK and FL 280 or above before entering Afgan airspace"

http://historyofpia.com/forums/viewtopi ... 2&start=60


That is one hell of a security arrangement for one airline (that is not El Al). Good for Pakistan for doing this, they need that credibility push and BA would be a good candidate to help make it happen. I also think they will atleast make this flight 5x weekly before announcing additional service to the country to LHE or KHI.
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LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:23 am

3 times a week seems to be fine, I think Pakistan situation is fragile due to how the West has made it on their perception of Pakistan.

3 times a week in busy summer season, will see how BA loads performance are, are they seeing that demand of traffic they had from prior 2008, then from there they will increase seats to 777 or increase the frequency, and then from their add other cities etc. Also to let their flight crew get a feel, and how the security protocol, ground handlers and other operation aspects are working out for them in Pakistan.

LH use to operate KHI and LHE up till 2009 I think, according to Pakistani media, recently British crew came to Karachi, and Lahore airport to review the situation, so maybe they're analyzing if they think their is potential in the market. I can see LH returning to Pakistan soon within the next 2 years hopefully.

BA and LH operate to Nigeria, and other countries where safety is questionable, don't tell me because some of these countries are oil rich is so it okay.

If airlines can operate to Nigeria and other countries, they so can operate to Pakistan.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:14 am

LH658 wrote:
Amazing hope to see BA expand to more cities in PK, and up gauge in frequency, and aircraft. Only issue I can see is the 1 check in bag allowance in economy, wish it could be 2 bags.


Just wait, they will start introducing Basic Economy, charge for afternoon tea, etc.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:22 am

LH658 wrote:
BA and LH operate to Nigeria, and other countries where safety is questionable, don't tell me because some of these countries are oil rich is so it okay.

If airlines can operate to Nigeria and other countries, they so can operate to Pakistan.


I think you are being naive. The dangers of operating to Nigeria are in wholly a different category than that of Pakistan (including the route in and out).
 
texdravid
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:24 am

It will get cut after the next inevitable terror threat and/or hostilities with India.

That is why Pakistanis prefer the ME3 carriers. Less chance of those routes being cut.
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sonicruiser
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:52 am

texdravid wrote:
It will get cut after the next inevitable terror threat and/or hostilities with India.

That is why Pakistanis prefer the ME3 carriers. Less chance of those routes being cut.


You mean like the Feb 27? It didn't stop BA. Obviously something like the Marriott would be much more impacting but it remains the only incident of that type since it occurred and Pakistan was in much deeper shit in those days than nowadays. Hate to say it but hostilities with India happen literally every day, so at best, saying it'd get cut because of some threat is extremely vague considering how many there are and at most is factually untrue considering how little of an impact there is given how many of them actually occur on a daily basis.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
BA777FO
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:33 am

Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 am

texdravid wrote:
It will get cut after the next inevitable terror threat and/or hostilities with India.

That is why Pakistanis prefer the ME3 carriers. Less chance of those routes being cut.


Like most people flying, very few are like us that keep up with aviation stuff or appreciate airlines taking such risk to serve a destination, or collecting points & maintaining loyalty to certain alliance etc, or will fly odd route to get chance experience a certain aircraft or airport like Changi etc.

Pakistani people just fly whatever airlines can easily and most importantly cheaply get there, I am pretty sure some of them still think KLM and Lufthansa operates, by "some" I mean older folks.

Most of them prefer or like the ME3 due to the service, but so many Pakistani live in UK, they wouldn't mind flying PK or BA just to directly arrive in Pakistan, not have to hassle with a stop over via Middle East. Stop over can mean, you dealing with issues at that airport with security for some odd reason, that next leg cancel or delay, maybe your bag doesn't get loaded etc. Direct flight with country with large Pakistani diaspora, and significant Business ties means convenience for people getting point to A to B in just 7 hours quick and easy.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:12 am

BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.
 
Judge1310
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:48 am

LH658 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.


Sounds suspicious as heck....the poster *just* said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss such topics any further. Leave it be.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:52 am

Judge1310 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.


Sounds suspicious as heck....the poster *just* said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss such topics any further. Leave it be.


Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum.
 
Judge1310
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:56 am

LH658 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.


Sounds suspicious as heck....the poster *just* said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss such topics any further. Leave it be.


Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum.


True (to a point), but the poster *literally* said : "...It's not appropriate to discuss this any further..."

Drop it.

Those of us who work in aviation are particularly sensitive to such topics. Such topics are on a Need to Know basis. Leave it be.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:50 am

LH658 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.


Sounds suspicious as heck....the poster *just* said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss such topics any further. Leave it be.


Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum.

You still believe they are "negative assumptions", after reading through this thread? Snipers on hills around the airport
and what not? People moan about security at Caracas, but not even here do we come close to needing that.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:54 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

Sounds suspicious as heck....the poster *just* said that it wasn't appropriate to discuss such topics any further. Leave it be.


Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum.

You still believe they are "negative assumptions", after reading through this thread? Snipers on hills around the airport
and what not? People moan about security at Caracas, but not even here do we come close to needing that.


You have shows like Homeland that portraits the most worst, and opposite image of Islamabad and the Muslim World. Unfortunately, media does it job makes certain parts of the World look bad. I don't think snipers are all that necessary, though I don't work at BA, and know what goes on at their Risk assessment team or with Pakistani intelligence nor do you MalevTU134. Though hopefully after some months this will all simmer down a bit, when BA left in 2008 Pakistan wasn't in a good state, compared to today. Pretty sure you haven't been to Pakistan either.

Pakistan doesn't have sanctions going on, or a dictator in charge. People aren't robbing each other in Pakistan for toilet paper, meat, and other supplies. Their is plenty of rich people in Pakistan who happily live in their country, they don't care about the white picket fence life that you get in the UK, USA, or Canada. Venezuela and Pakistan, are totally 2 different topics, exactly my point we have people like you can't even identify difference, due to media.
 
Tikchik
Posts: 20
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:35 am

Any Oneworld connections from LHR, BA J is not the GOAT.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:38 am

Tikchik wrote:
Any Oneworld connections from LHR, BA J is not the GOAT.


You can fly QR and Sri Lankan into PK.
 
Tikchik
Posts: 20
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:44 am

LH658 wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
Any Oneworld connections from LHR, BA J is not the GOAT.


You can fly QR and Sri Lankan into PK.

Thanks. QR would get my Business.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1756
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:09 am

Tikchik wrote:
LH658 wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
Any Oneworld connections from LHR, BA J is not the GOAT.


You can fly QR and Sri Lankan into PK.

Thanks. QR would get my Business.


Were you really not able to look this up?
 
9w748capt
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:11 am

BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Fascinating! Really wish you could share more, but that is quite telling that ISB was that much more than even Lagos or Abuja as far as appropriate security. Thanks for sharing what you can, very interesting indeed to those of us that are just outsiders and don't know the ins and outs.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 am

9w748capt wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Fascinating! Really wish you could share more, but that is quite telling that ISB was that much more than even Lagos or Abuja as far as appropriate security. Thanks for sharing what you can, very interesting indeed to those of us that are just outsiders and don't know the ins and outs.


Agree with you, though someone above said I am pushing my limits making such comments,
 
Antarius
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:11 am

LH658 wrote:
3 times a week seems to be fine, I think Pakistan situation is fragile due to how the West has made it on their perception of Pakistan.


Yes, its entirely due to the Western perception :roll:

Electoral campaign ads dont have as much blind one sided spin as some of these posts here.
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MalevTU134
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:45 am

LH658 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Having operated to both Abuja and Lagos, Islamabad is on another level after seeing what has been required to successfully restart operations there. Nigeria is a dangerous place but the security apparatus exists to allow safe passage when operating the aircraft but also transport of crew through the airport, to and from the hotel and while at the hotel. In Islamabad this has required some specialist operations and has only just recently become acceptable. These conditions do not exist in Lahore currently and definitely do not in Karachi.

The BA security team is arguably one of the best in the world and this isn't just about daily threat levels in the city, but much more in depth and specific. It's not appropriate to discuss this any further but suffice to say a lot has gone into making Islamabad a successful and safe station for BA to operate from but it is the only city in Pakistan that currently can meet the standards required.


Fascinating! Really wish you could share more, but that is quite telling that ISB was that much more than even Lagos or Abuja as far as appropriate security. Thanks for sharing what you can, very interesting indeed to those of us that are just outsiders and don't know the ins and outs.


Agree with you, though someone above said I am pushing my limits making such comments,

You weren't "making such comments", you were pushing for more info, when the poster clearly stated he wouldn't give more, for good reasons. Stop, take a deep breath realize what you did, and stop defending it. You will gain a lot more credibility here that way.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:51 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Fascinating! Really wish you could share more, but that is quite telling that ISB was that much more than even Lagos or Abuja as far as appropriate security. Thanks for sharing what you can, very interesting indeed to those of us that are just outsiders and don't know the ins and outs.


Agree with you, though someone above said I am pushing my limits making such comments,

You weren't "making such comments", you were pushing for more info, when the poster clearly stated he wouldn't give more, for good reasons. Stop, take a deep breath realize what you did, and stop defending it. You will gain a lot more credibility here that way.


Good to know, If there any other info you can give us about the Pakistan flight that you can give, it would be nice to know. Thanks mate.

Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum. - What I wrote, I don't think their any issue mate, I didn't start asking any more questions etc. I appreciated him for informing us, and just mention if there is anything he allowed to share then we are here to listen, as this is interesting topic that many people as yourself MalevTU134 aren't educated about, clearly just picking on people isn't gunna get you anywhere either mate. Cheers.
 
LH658
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:01 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Fascinating! Really wish you could share more, but that is quite telling that ISB was that much more than even Lagos or Abuja as far as appropriate security. Thanks for sharing what you can, very interesting indeed to those of us that are just outsiders and don't know the ins and outs.


Agree with you, though someone above said I am pushing my limits making such comments,

You weren't "making such comments", you were pushing for more info, when the poster clearly stated he wouldn't give more, for good reasons. Stop, take a deep breath realize what you did, and stop defending it. You will gain a lot more credibility here that way.


Why don't you add some positive insight to this thread, then keep picking on other comments.... fairly short thread you had a issue with another person LOL... Act like adult, take a deep breath, and don't act like a know it all. You might get more credibility here.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:06 am

LH658 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

Nothing suspicious, all I asked was about information he is allowed to share, Pakistan is a interesting market, and not to many people familiar about. It better then certainly making negative assumptions about certain parts of the World, like a lot of people do on this forum.

You still believe they are "negative assumptions", after reading through this thread? Snipers on hills around the airport
and what not? People moan about security at Caracas, but not even here do we come close to needing that.


You have shows like Homeland that portraits the most worst, and opposite image of Islamabad and the Muslim World. Unfortunately, media does it job makes certain parts of the World look bad. I don't think snipers are all that necessary, though I don't work at BA, and know what goes on at their Risk assessment team or with Pakistani intelligence nor do you MalevTU134. Though hopefully after some months this will all simmer down a bit, when BA left in 2008 Pakistan wasn't in a good state, compared to today. Pretty sure you haven't been to Pakistan either.

Pakistan doesn't have sanctions going on, or a dictator in charge. People aren't robbing each other in Pakistan for toilet paper, meat, and other supplies. Their is plenty of rich people in Pakistan who happily live in their country, they don't care about the white picket fence life that you get in the UK, USA, or Canada. Venezuela and Pakistan, are totally 2 different topics, exactly my point we have people like you can't even identify difference, due to media.

I very much doubt that BA makes its security decisions based on Homeland, The Simpsons or any other TV show. And of course neither of us knows the ins and outs of BA's security assessments, but it is a fact (according to that poster) that snipers ARE present while BA operates at ISB. Could you please remind me of any other airport in the world where that is needed? (Yes, needed, because I very much doubt that BA has come to that arrangement out of spite, or for fun.)

Of course Pakistan and Venezuela are very different. One big difference is that, while crime rates are extremely high here, there is no terrorist activity, especially not aimed at foreigners or westerners in Venezuela. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Pakistan (please don't even bother trying to deny it, save your breath).

You know, denying the obvious is not making your credibility any favours, and while in some aspects it is commendable that you defend your country, accepting its defects is the first step towards rectifying them, so that Pakistan will be a better place tomorrow. As always, blind nationalism doesn't do it any good.
 
LH658
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:12 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
You still believe they are "negative assumptions", after reading through this thread? Snipers on hills around the airport
and what not? People moan about security at Caracas, but not even here do we come close to needing that.


You have shows like Homeland that portraits the most worst, and opposite image of Islamabad and the Muslim World. Unfortunately, media does it job makes certain parts of the World look bad. I don't think snipers are all that necessary, though I don't work at BA, and know what goes on at their Risk assessment team or with Pakistani intelligence nor do you MalevTU134. Though hopefully after some months this will all simmer down a bit, when BA left in 2008 Pakistan wasn't in a good state, compared to today. Pretty sure you haven't been to Pakistan either.

Pakistan doesn't have sanctions going on, or a dictator in charge. People aren't robbing each other in Pakistan for toilet paper, meat, and other supplies. Their is plenty of rich people in Pakistan who happily live in their country, they don't care about the white picket fence life that you get in the UK, USA, or Canada. Venezuela and Pakistan, are totally 2 different topics, exactly my point we have people like you can't even identify difference, due to media.

I very much doubt that BA makes its security decisions based on Homeland, The Simpsons or any other TV show. And of course neither of us knows the ins and outs of BA's security assessments, but it is a fact (according to that poster) that snipers ARE present while BA operates at ISB. Could you please remind me of any other airport in the world where that is needed? (Yes, needed, because I very much doubt that BA has come to that arrangement out of spite, or for fun.)

Of course Pakistan and Venezuela are very different. One big difference is that, while crime rates are extremely high here, there is no terrorist activity, especially not aimed at foreigners or westerners in Venezuela. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Pakistan (please don't even bother trying to deny it, save your breath).

You know, denying the obvious is not making your credibility any favours, and while in some aspects it is commendable that you defend your country, accepting its defects is the first step towards rectifying them, so that Pakistan will be a better place tomorrow. As always, blind nationalism doesn't do it any good.


Alright kiddo calm down.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:14 am

LH658 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
LH658 wrote:

You have shows like Homeland that portraits the most worst, and opposite image of Islamabad and the Muslim World. Unfortunately, media does it job makes certain parts of the World look bad. I don't think snipers are all that necessary, though I don't work at BA, and know what goes on at their Risk assessment team or with Pakistani intelligence nor do you MalevTU134. Though hopefully after some months this will all simmer down a bit, when BA left in 2008 Pakistan wasn't in a good state, compared to today. Pretty sure you haven't been to Pakistan either.

Pakistan doesn't have sanctions going on, or a dictator in charge. People aren't robbing each other in Pakistan for toilet paper, meat, and other supplies. Their is plenty of rich people in Pakistan who happily live in their country, they don't care about the white picket fence life that you get in the UK, USA, or Canada. Venezuela and Pakistan, are totally 2 different topics, exactly my point we have people like you can't even identify difference, due to media.

I very much doubt that BA makes its security decisions based on Homeland, The Simpsons or any other TV show. And of course neither of us knows the ins and outs of BA's security assessments, but it is a fact (according to that poster) that snipers ARE present while BA operates at ISB. Could you please remind me of any other airport in the world where that is needed? (Yes, needed, because I very much doubt that BA has come to that arrangement out of spite, or for fun.)

Of course Pakistan and Venezuela are very different. One big difference is that, while crime rates are extremely high here, there is no terrorist activity, especially not aimed at foreigners or westerners in Venezuela. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about Pakistan (please don't even bother trying to deny it, save your breath).

You know, denying the obvious is not making your credibility any favours, and while in some aspects it is commendable that you defend your country, accepting its defects is the first step towards rectifying them, so that Pakistan will be a better place tomorrow. As always, blind nationalism doesn't do it any good.


Alright kiddo calm down.

You've gotta be really old to call me kiddo ;) Thanks for that, just made me feel younger :)
 
phlswaflyer
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:02 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:02 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
impilot wrote:
“Do you know who my dad is? He is rich and we fly first class more than you.” A.net gold.

The purpose of that statement wasn't to flaunt wealth but to spit in the face of someone who seems to think that not being White disqualifies you from being a Business Class passenger and thus makes you a "lower value customer". Looking back I agree that it wasn't the most tasteful statement, and that I really did not help my credibility with that post. That said, MalevTU134s statement came from prejudice and nothing else. Sit in the cabin of a flight going to an "ethnic" country and typically the majority of the passengers in J qualify as "ethnic".


Not only was it not tasteful, but neither was it very clever. You see, this industry has been working with ethnic fares for decades. Yes, they are called so, whether it be to your liking or not. Ethnic fares and ethnic traffic apply and refer to passengers originating from a certain country travelling to their home country. It is basically a subsegment of the VFR (Visit Friends & Relatives) segment of passengers that travel on a special fare that is only valid for them. Apart from being slightly cheaper, ethnic fares often include a higher baggage allowance, more generous rebooking conditions, et cetera. All in all, they are seat fillers for airlines, rather than high earners. Hence why I suspect that BA is not very keen on catering to or going after this segment of passengers by offering generous baggage allowances, for example.. It has absolutely nothing to do with the colour of their skin, as you suggest, I can assure you that. At one airline I worked at, we had ethnic fares from Europe to Chile, Peru, Ecuador and other countries. I can absolutely garantee you that we didn't care the slightest whether those passengers were white, black, indigenous, of Japanese descent (all of which are prevalent in Peru, for example), or any other colour (which is what seems to be your obsession), as long as they were or had been nationals of the country they were travelling to.

You are welcome to having been enlightened on the subject, and your apologies will be appreciated and accepted.

Also, may I suggest that your extremely hardworking parents spend some of the money they spend on your numerous first class tickets on educating you? Not necessarily to know about ethnic fares and ethnic passengers, but so you know to find out facts and understand concepts before lashing out at people due to your own prejudices and lack of knowledge.

As an irony, I am writing this on the train to Schiphol, from where I am flying to Frankfurt and on to Bogotá, in first class. Those will be around my 30th flights in business and first class this year. But then, you will have flown 100, so yours is bigger than mine...

Oh, and my parents aren't paying for my flights. I can make my own money, thank you very much.


Jeez - get over yourself will ya.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:41 am

smflyer wrote:
Theres J demand to Pakistan?


Yes.

I was a diplomat in Pakistan just over 10 years ago, and J was always busy with other diplomats and wealthy British Pakistanis.

I flew PIA which would be much cheaper in J than BA.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:50 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
smflyer wrote:
Theres J demand to Pakistan?


Yes.

I was a diplomat in Pakistan just over 10 years ago, and J was always busy with other diplomats and wealthy British Pakistanis.

I flew PIA which would be much cheaper in J than BA.


I can't find a price for PIA but BA is offering return Club World fares to ISB from £1360 return in September. That sounds like a bargain! Cheaper than any 1 stop iteneries I could find with the ME3 too. I think there's a perception that BA is expensive, it isn't, it's incredibly price-competitive.
 
KingB123
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:30 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:12 pm

I concur with BA777FO in regards to the BA security team being one of the best in the world, and indeed they will have had done their homework to start operations back into Pakistan. Lest we forget, indeed it is a very fragile but none the less a money printing market which has been dominated and exploited by the Middle Eastern Carriers.

Its refreshing to have a western carrier operating to Pakistan territory and wish it being a great success. And if Lahore Aiport and other Pakistani Airports get its act together and cooperate with BA in the operation of flights, you just may never know.

Absolutely Lahore and Karachi would be ideal destination for british airways, once the many issues have been ironed out but these are the only stations worth serving alongside islamabad.

I hope that this service gives PIA a run of its money, and im looking forward to seeing how this flight performs in the summer season, especially during the mango season uplift in the belly cargo!
King B
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:15 pm

BA777FO wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
smflyer wrote:
Theres J demand to Pakistan?


Yes.

I was a diplomat in Pakistan just over 10 years ago, and J was always busy with other diplomats and wealthy British Pakistanis.

I flew PIA which would be much cheaper in J than BA.


I can't find a price for PIA but BA is offering return Club World fares to ISB from £1360 return in September. That sounds like a bargain! Cheaper than any 1 stop iteneries I could find with the ME3 too. I think there's a perception that BA is expensive, it isn't, it's incredibly price-competitive.



PIA was around £1,000. But I am going back over 10 years.

PIA in J was comfortable.
 
Tikchik
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:13 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:10 am

9w748capt wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
LH658 wrote:

You can fly QR and Sri Lankan into PK.

Thanks. QR would get my Business.


Were you really not able to look this up?

My girlfriend banned me from Google Flights for a week after a self admitted absurd multi city itinerary.
 
LH658
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:36 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
smflyer wrote:
Theres J demand to Pakistan?


Yes.

I was a diplomat in Pakistan just over 10 years ago, and J was always busy with other diplomats and wealthy British Pakistanis.

I flew PIA which would be much cheaper in J than BA.


Thanks for clearing this, as people don't know much about the market of Pakistan, it no LOS, LHR, IAH, HKG, or etc, though there is definitely business traffic.
 
sonicruiser
Topic Author
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:30 pm

KingB123 wrote:
I concur with BA777FO in regards to the BA security team being one of the best in the world, and indeed they will have had done their homework to start operations back into Pakistan. Lest we forget, indeed it is a very fragile but none the less a money printing market which has been dominated and exploited by the Middle Eastern Carriers.

Its refreshing to have a western carrier operating to Pakistan territory and wish it being a great success. And if Lahore Aiport and other Pakistani Airports get its act together and cooperate with BA in the operation of flights, you just may never know.

Absolutely Lahore and Karachi would be ideal destination for british airways, once the many issues have been ironed out but these are the only stations worth serving alongside islamabad.

I hope that this service gives PIA a run of its money, and im looking forward to seeing how this flight performs in the summer season, especially during the mango season uplift in the belly cargo!


Well said! :checkmark:
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
LH658
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:47 am

If anyone is interested in watching here is a link of a flight report of BA260/261.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTDCaU3ss4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... HeCEvadk58
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:38 pm

ELBOB is getting religious faith and free market economics conflated. Too many on here pick a team and declare undying loyalty which is a little peculiar but perfectly understandable. Surely an option that isn’t PIA is a boost for badly needed western inward investment?
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:10 pm

ELBOB wrote:
If customers had any principles they'd ignore BA on this route. Given that BA ignored them for 10 years.
Even without direct flights, you could still book Pakistan flights via 'ba.com' using BA's alliance/codeshare partners like QR via DOH. Thats why airlines have codeshares etc. It wasn't a question of 'loyalty' or 'principles', other than the basic principle of keeping passengers and staff safe. It hasn't been safe for BA to fly to Pakistan in their view, even though I'm sure they would have liked to....... Im sure the vast majority of folks in Pakistan will welcome this resumption as a possible sign that things in Pakistan might be getting back to some degree of 'normal'.

ELBOB wrote:
Sadly, they'll book whomever is cheaper at the moment.
Wrong. People generally don't book BA because they're the cheapest ride in the sky. Thats BA's business model, and they would have made very careful projections on likely sales and revenues. BA made their decision to resume Pakistan flights with a great deal of research and canvassing of likely business customers.

ELBOB wrote:
Why would any airline show any loyalty to a route when it could just suspend it and resume a decade later with no consequences?
Why? I would have thought that would be very obvious. Airlines suspend operations over a particular route for all kinds of reasons. Take BA to Tehran for example. I'm sure BA would love to still be flying to Iran, but geo-political factors have taken their course. Im sure one bright day, the wonderful people of Iran will be able to fly BA to the UK once again.

What 'consequences' are you suggesting; that once an operator withdraws a particular route, they would be legally unable to resume it?
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1221
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:12 pm

lutfi wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
kjeld0d wrote:

This has to be the longest flight, no?


Haha hilarious,,,love it

One checked bag in economy = route won’t last long


deliberate segmentation of market? (i.e. not targeting VFR market)


More like competing where there strength is. Also there will be quite a few VFR with OW status that will get an extra bag for everyone in the party. Plus there will be a segment of the local O&D VFR that is happy to pay the bag fee to fly nonstop and avoid the ME (again not everyone but they don't need everyone).
Btw if flying India-UK-USA you get two bags. The website doesn't mention Pakistan (but I guess that will change?)
 
LH658
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:38 am

On a Pakistan Aviation forum it is reported that ISB flight will be upgraded from daily flights to 10 weekly starting in October 28th. I hope it's true.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3061
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: British Airways touches down in Pakistan after 10 years

Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:33 am

LH658 wrote:
On a Pakistan Aviation forum it is reported that ISB flight will be upgraded from daily flights to 10 weekly starting in October 28th. I hope it's true.


BA certainly have the spare aircraft for it.

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