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msycajun
Posts: 1066
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:15 pm

Lexy wrote:
msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.



Well all three are larger markets than MSY so there’s that. Also, much larger, faster growing, and more idle metros.

Who said anything about MSY? Totally irrelevant to the discussion.

What I'm saying is that a few years ago when DL declared RDU a focus city, there was a clear build up of hub service, point to point routes and eventually international service. With these three, DL has been throwing the term around without a corresponding increase in routes. So either they've changed the definition of a focus city or are really dragging their feet on expansion. With RDU, there wasn't a strong entrenched competitor, so I'm interested to see how it plays out in these markets.
 
jagraham
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:22 pm

questions wrote:
Delta’s use of the term, “focus city” is not what people on here want it to be. It is not a “mini hub” with lots of flights to Delta hubs, a bunch of non-hub flights and a handful of international routes.

From Delta’s perspective it is a “focus city” because it’s a market where Delta believes there is a lot of potential economic growth and where Delta believes they have an opportunity for profitable growth — through increased market share, attraction of premium flyers and obtaining corporate contracts (that have an interest in the market). It is where Delta is focusing its resources for additional growth — where to play, how to win.

Delta Hub Cities:
ATL
JFK
BOS
DTW
MSP
SLC
LAX
SEA

Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.


Don't forget LGA
 
jagraham
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:29 pm

Once upon a time, US airlines were regional. Strong in some places, weak in others.

Since all the mergers, there are now 4 mega airlines (AA, DL, UA, WN). They compete with each other everywhere.

Corporate consolidation has increased this competition since fewer, larger corporations mean business travel dollars in the hands of fewer travel departments. Each loss hurts more, each gain rewards more.

So we see these airlines, plus AS and B6, trying to find ways to strengthen their weaknesses and hold on to their strengths.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:38 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
questions wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
What "political reasons" would those be?


Guess.

If I had known what you meant, I wouldn't have asked.


Could you explain these "political reasons" at CVG for those of us who have no idea what you're talking about? Not everybody is as well versed on what's going on in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky politics.
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:40 pm

B752OS wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
Realistically what new TATL routes can we expect from DL at BOS?


I would think they might throw in some seasonal routes - running late April through late September or Early October to places like Rome, Milan, Barcelona, Madrid, Porto, Brussels, etc. Boston to Europe is already very well served to Europe (perhaps over served like a number of US cities currently are) so adding in some seasonal capacity that they help fill with connecting traffic would make sense to the cities I have listed.


It would also be very easy for DL to shift their JFK international 757 operations to BOS to free up room for new JFK expansions. Like Shannon, Reyjkavik, Ponta Delgada, Malaga, and Glasgow. All currently are flown out of JFK with 757s. The smaller planes would not cause the same issues as having a bunch of new wide bodies at Terminal A in BOS.
 
ScottB
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:50 pm

airbazar wrote:
I wouldn't forget about ATH. In fact i'm a little shocked they added LIS instead of ATH this Summer.


I'm not. LIS is easily within 757 range from BOS (ATH is not) and there are relatively strong ties between Portugal and the Boston/Providence region and especially the South Coast of Mass. Delta isn't going to fly a point-to-point route from PVD to LIS. I really wouldn't be at all surprised to see the PDL service shift to BOS at some point.
 
Kno
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:01 pm

We should all keep in mind that new gates from southwest at A can fit up to a 757 and one of the gates fits up to a 764 without blocking anything so there shouldn’t be much issue opening up a couple more 767 destinations and plenty of 757 destinations.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:17 pm

msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press.

For them to redefine it, there would need to be a definitive (see what I did there) definition of focus city.

Our thread viewtopic.php?t=1397813 pointed to Wiki's definition:

In the airline industry, a focus city is a destination from which an airline operates several point-to-point routes.[4] Thus, a focus city primarily caters to the local market rather than to connecting passengers.[5][6]

However, with the term's expanded usage, a focus city may also function as a small-scale hub.

And before someone asks, "several" is defined as "being more than two but fewer than many in number or kind" ( ref: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/several ).

So, once you add your third point-to-point route, the term "focus city" becomes fair game.

But, yeah, it's a marketing term, and marketing is just a well paid version of willy-waiving.
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Nola
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:30 pm

jagraham wrote:
DL views focus cities as having frequent service to most hubs. P2P doesn't factor into Delta calculations.


By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.
 
Lexy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:04 pm

Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
DL views focus cities as having frequent service to most hubs. P2P doesn't factor into Delta calculations.


By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.



It just means the old club is too small.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
jagraham
Posts: 924
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:09 pm

Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
DL views focus cities as having frequent service to most hubs. P2P doesn't factor into Delta calculations.


By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.


The problem with Delta is that they are ignoring the most important opinions in the world - that of a.net posters. Obviously Delta's decision making is horribly deficient.

Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&hilit=delta+departures&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.
 
ScottB
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:28 pm

jagraham wrote:
Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&hilit=delta+departures&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures


You need to go further down in that thread. It's more like 32nd.
 
Nola
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:54 pm

Lexy wrote:
Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
DL views focus cities as having frequent service to most hubs. P2P doesn't factor into Delta calculations.


By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.



It just means the old club is too small.



UA doesn't have a club in the South Terminal. DL is the only legacy that currently has a club in MSY.
 
Nola
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:57 pm

jagraham wrote:
Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
DL views focus cities as having frequent service to most hubs. P2P doesn't factor into Delta calculations.


By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.


The problem with Delta is that they are ignoring the most important opinions in the world - that of a.net posters. Obviously Delta's decision making is horribly deficient.

Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... s&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.


I agree with you. My point is that the definition of focus city can't just mean frequency of flights to hubs... there has to be something else to it, either P2P or a much larger number of flights or both.

As for proximity to ATL, I agree with you on that also, but note that the distance between DFW-MSY and ATL-MSY is about the same and AA has ramped up considerably and has TATL service through the JV with BA. DL is falling behind. Admittedly, we are just a backward convention city, not a fast growing future tech behemoth.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:04 pm

questions wrote:
Delta’s use of the term, “focus city” is not what people on here want it to be. It is not a “mini hub” with lots of flights to Delta hubs, a bunch of non-hub flights and a handful of international routes.

From Delta’s perspective it is a “focus city” because it’s a market where Delta believes there is a lot of potential economic growth and where Delta believes they have an opportunity for profitable growth — through increased market share, attraction of premium flyers and obtaining corporate contracts (that have an interest in the market). It is where Delta is focusing its resources for additional growth — where to play, how to win.

Delta Hub Cities:
ATL
JFK
BOS
DTW
MSP
SLC
LAX
SEA

Delta Focus Cities:
RDU
CVG*
BNA
AUS
SJC


*CVG is only on the list for political reasons.


Political reasons? CVG is closer to a hub than a focus city. They still retain a pilot base. BOS does not have a pilot base.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:19 pm

Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Nola wrote:

By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.


The problem with Delta is that they are ignoring the most important opinions in the world - that of a.net posters. Obviously Delta's decision making is horribly deficient.

Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&hilit=delta+departures&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.


I agree with you. My point is that the definition of focus city can't just mean frequency of flights to hubs... there has to be something else to it, either P2P or a much larger number of flights or both.

As for proximity to ATL, I agree with you on that also, but note that the distance between DFW-MSY and ATL-MSY is about the same and AA has ramped up considerably and has TATL service through the JV with BA. DL is falling behind. Admittedly, we are just a backward convention city, not a fast growing future tech behemoth.


Problem with MSY is that there are 11 daily flights to ATL on large narrow-bodies, and not much after that: BOS/SEA is seasonal weekend only, MSP is once daily, RDU is weekend only, and CVG is not served.

To me it appears DL wants to funnel as much traffic as possible on MSY-ATL, at the expense of nonstop service to some of their larger stations/hubs
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jetlanta
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:31 pm

msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.


People here are misunderstanding the context of the comments. Amy Martin made the comments at the ACI-NA JumpStart Conference in a presentation she gave. The attendees are air service development professionals from across North America. The audience was industry peers who are more likely to understand their context better than most a.netters. It wasn't an "announcement". Delta wasn't looking for "free press". She was trying to inform the audience of Delta's strategy moving forward, so they would be better informed as they pitched ideas to the carrier.

BNA, AUS and SJC were not given any special treatment except to be marked on a map that showed them as focus cities. That led to a question about them. She explained that this meant that Delta puts extra emphasis and consideration on each, as they offer attributes that are very appealing to Delta. They also happen to not have another dominant legacy carrier. She indicated that focus cities at the most basic level will have fully-developed schedules to the primary hubs, then perhaps between between each other, and other key markets like LAS.

Some of them will be bigger than others. Some of them are in varying degrees of development at the moment. But the gist is that Delta wants to be the dominant global network carrier in each.

Of these three markets in particular, the only one I think has a long-term chance to emerge as a legit hub is AUS.
 
jagraham
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:46 pm

Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Nola wrote:

By that measure, wouldn't MSY be a focus city? It has multi-frequencies to all hubs except SEA.... DL is falling behind, though, as AA is now the largest legacy carrier at MSY and UA is building a club that will be larger than DL's SkyClub, which I guess means they intend to add service once the new terminal opens.


The problem with Delta is that they are ignoring the most important opinions in the world - that of a.net posters. Obviously Delta's decision making is horribly deficient.

Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&hilit=delta+departures&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.


I agree with you. My point is that the definition of focus city can't just mean frequency of flights to hubs... there has to be something else to it, either P2P or a much larger number of flights or both.

As for proximity to ATL, I agree with you on that also, but note that the distance between DFW-MSY and ATL-MSY is about the same and AA has ramped up considerably and has TATL service through the JV with BA. DL is falling behind. Admittedly, we are just a backward convention city, not a fast growing future tech behemoth.


Usually a spoke has service to 2 or 3 hubs. DL has 9; service to even 6 of those 9 hubs more than once daily is a big deal.

When it comes to P2P service, WN is the master of P2P. WN focuses very little on making connections work; rather, when they can more than half fill a plane 3x per day, that city pair will find its way onto the expansion list.

WN's mastery of P2P makes it hard for the US3 to do the same; much of where they might do P2P, WN is already there in force.

In addition, the PDEW of city pairs below the top 25 metro areas don't support frequent mainline service. The US3 could do more with RJs, but they are hampered by scope clauses at this time.

So the US3 tend to expand where one of their hubs is at one end of the trip. That way, they can take people a lot of places with one change of plane at a hub.

Because DL has the lowest presence in the top ten metro areas (where 90% of flying begins or ends), P2P will be more important if DL is to stay ahead. Especially if and when AA starts to get their act together network-wise. But even in this scenario, the routing will be hub - top ten non hub - hub, or hub - top ten non hub - below top twenty (DL is well covered between 11 and 20 with the exception of PHX, DEN, and CLE), hub. DL will have very little WN style P2P flying - it's just not their way.
 
AF773
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:14 pm

Could we see a BOS-SAN in the near future? Maybe a 738 service? Not sure it warrants a DeltaOne 75'...
I know B6 is already on it, but that doesn't seem to stop DL, quite the contrary actually.
Next flights: SAN-LAX-CDG; ORY-TLN-ORY; CDG-SEA-LAX-SAN; SAN-LAX-CDG-SLC-SNA; TIJ-MEX-PVR-MEX-TIJ
 
Fargo
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:24 pm

jetlanta wrote:
msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.


People here are misunderstanding the context of the comments. Amy Martin made the comments at the ACI-NA JumpStart Conference in a presentation she gave. The attendees are air service development professionals from across North America. The audience was industry peers who are more likely to understand their context better than most a.netters. It wasn't an "announcement". Delta wasn't looking for "free press". She was trying to inform the audience of Delta's strategy moving forward, so they would be better informed as they pitched ideas to the carrier.

BNA, AUS and SJC were not given any special treatment except to be marked on a map that showed them as focus cities. That led to a question about them. She explained that this meant that Delta puts extra emphasis and consideration on each, as they offer attributes that are very appealing to Delta. They also happen to not have another dominant legacy carrier. She indicated that focus cities at the most basic level will have fully-developed schedules to the primary hubs, then perhaps between between each other, and other key markets like LAS.

Some of them will be bigger than others. Some of them are in varying degrees of development at the moment. But the gist is that Delta wants to be the dominant global network carrier in each.

Of these three markets in particular, the only one I think has a long-term chance to emerge as a legit hub is AUS.


Good explanation. Of the three, I believe only AUS will be elevated to the same level as CVG and RDU, the "focus" at BNA and SJC will only be increased spokes, with BNA getting TATL service as well (I don't see SJC getting TATL service on DL metal).

Is there a link to the presentation anywhere?
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:28 pm

N649DL wrote:
SJC is the largest surprise. I was just in SFO in Feb. flying DL and other than a beautiful Sky Club, it was largely deserted around 5pm. I have no idea what they want with SJC when they're wanting to concentrate on SEA and LAX overall. LAS is already a big DL station, why not make that a Focus City? That already failed on AA in a different economy, and then they have to compete with AS as well.


Their goal has been to put AS and B6 out of business...it's been obvious for years. They despise AS for refusing to kow-tow to them and apparently think B6 is a lightweight in BOS and easy pickings. Now they think they can come into SJC where WN and AS both have sizeable operations...and do what? Next they'll announce BWI and MCO as a 'focus city' and their plan for US domination will be complete.
 
B752OS
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:05 am

AF773 wrote:
Could we see a BOS-SAN in the near future? Maybe a 738 service? Not sure it warrants a DeltaOne 75'...
I know B6 is already on it, but that doesn't seem to stop DL, quite the contrary actually.


Don't forget AS. They serve BOS-SAN year round, once daily. They've been on that route for a few years now.
 
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DLSANMan
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:10 am

My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.
 
N649DL
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:27 am

hiflyeras wrote:
N649DL wrote:
SJC is the largest surprise. I was just in SFO in Feb. flying DL and other than a beautiful Sky Club, it was largely deserted around 5pm. I have no idea what they want with SJC when they're wanting to concentrate on SEA and LAX overall. LAS is already a big DL station, why not make that a Focus City? That already failed on AA in a different economy, and then they have to compete with AS as well.


Their goal has been to put AS and B6 out of business...it's been obvious for years. They despise AS for refusing to kow-tow to them and apparently think B6 is a lightweight in BOS and easy pickings. Now they think they can come into SJC where WN and AS both have sizeable operations...and do what? Next they'll announce BWI and MCO as a 'focus city' and their plan for US domination will be complete.


AS I can understand. I'm really not a fan of them either, but more importantly they're flighty with alliances out of SEA like with DL and AA over the years.
 
airbazar
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:00 am

ScottB wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I wouldn't forget about ATH. In fact i'm a little shocked they added LIS instead of ATH this Summer.


I'm not. LIS is easily within 757 range from BOS (ATH is not) and there are relatively strong ties between Portugal and the Boston/Providence region and especially the South Coast of Mass. Delta isn't going to fly a point-to-point route from PVD to LIS. I really wouldn't be at all surprised to see the PDL service shift to BOS at some point.


I know, I'm one of those Portuguese living here and I'm flying DL to LIS this Summer, for $400 with a free checked bag and seat assignment. Good luck finding a $400 ticket to anywhere in Europe during peak Summer season. The market to LIS is over saturated even tho there was only one airline on this specific route. It's not that big of a market to begin with. TP makes it work because they offer beyond LIS connections. The BOS route especially relies heavily on connections.
 
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precure787
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:18 am

Ok, that tells me that DL is competing with WN and AS in terms of SJC flights, right? I've taken aviation courses at San Jose State University, and some students have visited SJC as part of field trips or internships, some even hold their jobs right at SJC.
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:30 am

cactusjuba wrote:
Yes. BNA is a focus city. Recently surpassed AA as #2 in revenue share, 2019 planning 9% growth in capacity. AUS mentioned as a focus city, likewise 9% capacity growth. RDU 10% growth. SJC will be considered newest focus city, 14% growth through summer with focus to better compete against UA in SFO. 2019 domestic system growth of 3-4%. Core hub (ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC) growth around 2%, primarily driven by gauge.

On A.net I think posters look for a metric benchmark
with a snapshot of the present to classify something as a focus city. Within Network Planning, they look at areas of economic growth, FF base, competition, and target special cities to "focus" acute expansion in. They form a gameplan and timeline that will play out over the course of years and adjusts to the market. They call these focus cities. AUS, BNA & SJC are are specifically referenced as focus cities.


LOL. I was talking about this very thing in April. But I guess without a citation to an internet media outlet my information will never be credible.
 
Fargo
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:34 am

Cactusjuba wrote:
cactusjuba wrote:
Yes. BNA is a focus city. Recently surpassed AA as #2 in revenue share, 2019 planning 9% growth in capacity. AUS mentioned as a focus city, likewise 9% capacity growth. RDU 10% growth. SJC will be considered newest focus city, 14% growth through summer with focus to better compete against UA in SFO. 2019 domestic system growth of 3-4%. Core hub (ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC) growth around 2%, primarily driven by gauge.

On A.net I think posters look for a metric benchmark
with a snapshot of the present to classify something as a focus city. Within Network Planning, they look at areas of economic growth, FF base, competition, and target special cities to "focus" acute expansion in. They form a gameplan and timeline that will play out over the course of years and adjusts to the market. They call these focus cities. AUS, BNA & SJC are are specifically referenced as focus cities.


LOL. I was talking about this very thing in April. But I guess without a citation to an internet media outlet my information will never be credible.


But are AUS, BNA, SJC going to become like CVG/RDU where they see a fair amount of p2p flying and TATL service? That’s what people are wondering.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:48 am

DLSANMan wrote:
My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.


All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:58 am

Fargo wrote:
Cactusjuba wrote:
cactusjuba wrote:
Yes. BNA is a focus city. Recently surpassed AA as #2 in revenue share, 2019 planning 9% growth in capacity. AUS mentioned as a focus city, likewise 9% capacity growth. RDU 10% growth. SJC will be considered newest focus city, 14% growth through summer with focus to better compete against UA in SFO. 2019 domestic system growth of 3-4%. Core hub (ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC) growth around 2%, primarily driven by gauge.

On A.net I think posters look for a metric benchmark
with a snapshot of the present to classify something as a focus city. Within Network Planning, they look at areas of economic growth, FF base, competition, and target special cities to "focus" acute expansion in. They form a gameplan and timeline that will play out over the course of years and adjusts to the market. They call these focus cities. AUS, BNA & SJC are are specifically referenced as focus cities.


LOL. I was talking about this very thing in April. But I guess without a citation to an internet media outlet my information will never be credible.


But are AUS, BNA, SJC going to become like CVG/RDU where they see a fair amount of p2p flying and TATL service? That’s what people are wondering.

I don't see that over the next half a decade. There's no room to grow to that scale. Spoke to VP of Network about AUS. I got the impression that upguaging and increased frequencies were the growth tactic at least for the near term.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:06 am

jagraham wrote:
Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... s&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.

Ummmm, I don't see SJC on either of these charts -- so apparently Mineta Int'l has somewhere less than 14 departures? And is being categorized a Focus City?

Yeah, their definition of "Focus City" is sure not the same as almost everyone else's, including mine! Even doubling whatever flight count SJC has would put them where, in the bottom third of the chart on the left...

So obviously the number of departures at a station, plus the presence or absence of a DL Club, have nothing to do with the designation.

bb
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:09 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
questions wrote:

Guess.

If I had known what you meant, I wouldn't have asked.


Could you explain these "political reasons" at CVG for those of us who have no idea what you're talking about? Not everybody is as well versed on what's going on in Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky politics.


I also remember this, unfortunately not the details. It may have been more financial than political.

I’m sure CVG has a decent amount of O&D traffic. However there’s no reason not to route flow traffic to the hub just north of CVG — the one that can’t be mentioned in this thread without inciting hysterics.

Anyone know the details of this?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:10 am

SANFan wrote:
jagraham wrote:
Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420613&hilit=delta+departures&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.

Ummmm, I don't see SJC on either of these charts -- so apparently Mineta Int'l has somewhere less than 14 departures? And is being categorized a Focus City?

Yeah, their definition of "Focus City" is sure not the same as almost everyone else's, including mine! Even doubling whatever flight count SJC has would put them where, in the bottom third of the chart on the left...

So obviously the number of departures at a station, plus the presence or absence of a DL Club, have nothing to do with the designation.

bb


There's another chart included later which is more comprehensive:

Image

Along with this

Image
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N292UX
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:16 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
DLSANMan wrote:
My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.


All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.

SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

So the moral of the story is they COULD start SJC-IAD, but I don't think it will happen for a while, or at least right out of the gate. SJC-IAD is certainly a route that should work right now, at least 1x daily, but I sort of think UA will beat them to it. It would be a very good A220 route, though.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:33 am

N292UX wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
DLSANMan wrote:
My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.


All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.

SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

So the moral of the story is they COULD start SJC-IAD, but I don't think it will happen for a while, or at least right out of the gate. SJC-IAD is certainly a route that should work right now, at least 1x daily, but I sort of think UA will beat them to it. It would be a very good A220 route, though.


Yes UA seems the logical one to operate SJC, but they dropped it several years ago. Remember that UA resumed ORD and EWR from SJC (the latter being ex-CO). Then they quickly dropped EWR. UA doesn’t seem in much of an expansion mode at SJC. DL is calling SJC a focus city.

I still think DL made a mistake by dropping the NW 787-8 order. That would be a good size airplane if DL did want to try stuff like SJC-AMS, SJC-ICN and other routes like SLC-ICN or PDX-CDG, and make routes like SEA-HKG or SEA-KIX have a better chance of working.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:34 am

N292UX wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
DLSANMan wrote:
My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.


All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.

SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

So the moral of the story is they COULD start SJC-IAD, but I don't think it will happen for a while, or at least right out of the gate. SJC-IAD is certainly a route that should work right now, at least 1x daily, but I sort of think UA will beat them to it. It would be a very good A220 route, though.


Hypothetically, if they were to get an exemption or free up a slot some other way, they would likely use it on SEA-DCA anyway. With Amazon HQ2 opening up a stone's throw away from DCA, and the defense industry connections in the immediate vicinity of DCA, if DL can get a hold of one of those beyond perimeter slots I would put good money on it going to SEA first.
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laca773
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:40 am

N292UX wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
DLSANMan wrote:
My guesses
BOS - SAN (75S)
SJC - SAN (220)
SJC-RDU (319) used to served by Midway
SJC - DFW (220)
SJC -AUS (220)
SJC - ORD (220)
SJC - MCI (220)
SJC - PDX (220)

I think you see where I’m going... too business routes on the 220.


All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.

SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

So the moral of the story is they COULD start SJC-IAD, but I don't think it will happen for a while, or at least right out of the gate. SJC-IAD is certainly a route that should work right now, at least 1x daily, but I sort of think UA will beat them to it. It would be a very good A220 route, though.


UA has operated SJC-IAD many years ago, and later axed it to focus in their SFO hub connections. They also axed SJC-ORD until last year. I believe it's usually flown with A319/A320s 1-2x.day.
What happened to UA's SJC-EWR flight? It re-started last year & has been gone for sometime now. Since the merger with CO, the only consistency UA has had @ SJC has been DEN which the majority of those flights were UAX until late last year. IAH has minimal service too.

If anything, I see DL apply for SJC-DCA if a slot opens. If they don't, AS will apply.

In regards to service to FLL or MIA, is the demand there? AA offered it for a short time pre 9/11 & it was history. I don't see it happening. Same for SJC-ORD? Why? You have UA & AA to ORD & WN to MDW. More than enough capacity. I'm still waiting to see if DL will add LAX-ORD with A319 or A221/223 service. If the demand is there and they have corporate clients who want it, then maybe.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:48 am

laca773 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

All those are reasonable guesses. I think AA has done SJC-RDU also.

The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.

Another route that could work is SJC-IAD (or DCA if someone had the slot). UA previously served that.

SJC-MIA or FLL seems viable too. AA briefly served MIA in around 2001. Again, AS also could have tried FLL.

SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

So the moral of the story is they COULD start SJC-IAD, but I don't think it will happen for a while, or at least right out of the gate. SJC-IAD is certainly a route that should work right now, at least 1x daily, but I sort of think UA will beat them to it. It would be a very good A220 route, though.


UA has operated SJC-IAD many years ago, and later axed it to focus in their SFO hub connections. They also axed SJC-ORD until last year. I believe it's usually flown with A319/A320s 1-2x.day.
What happened to UA's SJC-EWR flight? It re-started last year & has been gone for sometime now. Since the merger with CO, the only consistency UA has had @ SJC has been DEN which the majority of those flights were UAX until late last year. IAH has minimal service too.

If anything, I see DL apply for SJC-DCA if a slot opens. If they don't, AS will apply.

In regards to service to FLL or MIA, is the demand there? AA offered it for a short time pre 9/11 & it was history. I don't see it happening. Same for SJC-ORD? Why? You have UA & AA to ORD & WN to MDW. More than enough capacity. I'm still waiting to see if DL will add LAX-ORD with A319 or A221/223 service. If the demand is there and they have corporate clients who want it, then maybe.

UA dropped EWR-SJC I believe in last November. It was cut alongside a bunch of other routes out of EWR, but most of the routes cut were subsequently launched from IAD, but SJC wasn't. I'm not sure of the LF%s on the EWR-SJC flights, but if someone did, that may be interesting.

Another thing worth noting is that DL recently launched DTW/JFK-SJC, and both of those routes seem to be doing well. So if there's an airline that's best fit for a DC-SJC flight, it's probably DL. UA would have the advantage of much better connection options at IAD alongside the O&D.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:12 pm

ScottB wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I wouldn't forget about ATH. In fact i'm a little shocked they added LIS instead of ATH this Summer.


I'm not. LIS is easily within 757 range from BOS (ATH is not) and there are relatively strong ties between Portugal and the Boston/Providence region and especially the South Coast of Mass. Delta isn't going to fly a point-to-point route from PVD to LIS. I really wouldn't be at all surprised to see the PDL service shift to BOS at some point.


Agree on the 757 point. I do think ATH makes a lot of sense though and we will probably see it happen in the next few years.

According to Athens Airport stats, in 2017 62,300 people travelled between ATH and BOS with a connection (2018 data not available yet, will probably be higher). That is 85 PDEW on average but I'm pretty sure that number is much higher in the summer and could sustain a seasonal direct flight. Not to mention the additional traffic traffic a new non stop service would generate plus the connections.

BOS was the #4 unserved destination from ATH in 2017 after NYC, Melbourne and Sydney. ATH-NYC got Emirates and Norwegian since then (plus I believe some increase in capacity from DL with the second daily flight upgauging from a 764 to a 333) so BOS is probably #3 now. And I remember someone on here mentioning ATH was one of the top (if not the top) unserved destination from BOS, which is more relevant/important from the DL perspective.

Athens-Boston is a market which has tourism (a lot of which is premium), education, some business and of course VFR. While the Portuguese community is larger, Massachusetts is home to about 80,000 people that claim Greek ancestry so it's quite sizeable (albeit much smaller than New York, Illinois or Ontario). OA used to fly the route until it was privatised.

If DL doesn't make it happen I could see Norwegian giving it a shot if JFK works this summer and if they are still around in a couple of years.

The bigger question for me is if DL will start ATH service from BOS before it brings back the ATL flight (which was operated for a few years but was dropped sometime in the mid-2000s).
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:21 pm

jetlanta wrote:
msycajun wrote:
To me Delta is redefining the term focus city and applying it liberally to get some free press. Get back to me when they start announcing routes that would suggest a real focus city. RDU and CVG fit the definition in my mind, but I haven't seen anything apart from larger Sky Clubs to suggest a DL focus in AUS, BNA, or SJC. I'm not saying it won't happen, but all of this talk with no action is tiresome.


People here are misunderstanding the context of the comments. Amy Martin made the comments at the ACI-NA JumpStart Conference in a presentation she gave. The attendees are air service development professionals from across North America. The audience was industry peers who are more likely to understand their context better than most a.netters. It wasn't an "announcement". Delta wasn't looking for "free press". She was trying to inform the audience of Delta's strategy moving forward, so they would be better informed as they pitched ideas to the carrier.

BNA, AUS and SJC were not given any special treatment except to be marked on a map that showed them as focus cities. That led to a question about them. She explained that this meant that Delta puts extra emphasis and consideration on each, as they offer attributes that are very appealing to Delta. They also happen to not have another dominant legacy carrier. She indicated that focus cities at the most basic level will have fully-developed schedules to the primary hubs, then perhaps between between each other, and other key markets like LAS.

Some of them will be bigger than others. Some of them are in varying degrees of development at the moment. But the gist is that Delta wants to be the dominant global network carrier in each.

Of these three markets in particular, the only one I think has a long-term chance to emerge as a legit hub is AUS.



Very interesting insight - thanks!
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Nola wrote:
jagraham wrote:

The problem with Delta is that they are ignoring the most important opinions in the world - that of a.net posters. Obviously Delta's decision making is horribly deficient.

Back to the real world, from the Delta S19 Departures thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtop ... s&start=50
MSY is the 24th largest non-hub station by departures, with 25 daily departures

Image

So unfortunately MSY has to wait a bit before getting promoted. Proximity to ATL doesn't help either.


I agree with you. My point is that the definition of focus city can't just mean frequency of flights to hubs... there has to be something else to it, either P2P or a much larger number of flights or both.

As for proximity to ATL, I agree with you on that also, but note that the distance between DFW-MSY and ATL-MSY is about the same and AA has ramped up considerably and has TATL service through the JV with BA. DL is falling behind. Admittedly, we are just a backward convention city, not a fast growing future tech behemoth.


Problem with MSY is that there are 11 daily flights to ATL on large narrow-bodies, and not much after that: BOS/SEA is seasonal weekend only, MSP is once daily, RDU is weekend only, and CVG is not served.

To me it appears DL wants to funnel as much traffic as possible on MSY-ATL, at the expense of nonstop service to some of their larger stations/hubs


You are missing the 3 daily LAX, 3 daily JFK, 3 daily LGA, 3 daily DTW, daily SLC, and weekly seasonal CUN. Just FYI.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:52 pm

SunsetLimited wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Nola wrote:

I agree with you. My point is that the definition of focus city can't just mean frequency of flights to hubs... there has to be something else to it, either P2P or a much larger number of flights or both.

As for proximity to ATL, I agree with you on that also, but note that the distance between DFW-MSY and ATL-MSY is about the same and AA has ramped up considerably and has TATL service through the JV with BA. DL is falling behind. Admittedly, we are just a backward convention city, not a fast growing future tech behemoth.


Problem with MSY is that there are 11 daily flights to ATL on large narrow-bodies, and not much after that: BOS/SEA is seasonal weekend only, MSP is once daily, RDU is weekend only, and CVG is not served.

To me it appears DL wants to funnel as much traffic as possible on MSY-ATL, at the expense of nonstop service to some of their larger stations/hubs


You are missing the 3 daily LAX, 3 daily JFK, 3 daily LGA, 3 daily DTW, daily SLC, and weekly seasonal CUN. Just FYI.


I wasn't missing those routes, I was mentioning how there were holes from MSY to some of their larger stations/hubs, NYC/LA/DTW/SLC have decent service to MSY. I wasn't trying to list every airport DL served from MSY.
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SANFan
Posts: 5110
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:15 pm

N292UX wrote:
SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

To clarify, there are a total of four (4) DCA Beyond-Perimeter slots available to be moved right now -- 1 belongs to UA. (currently in use SFO-DCA), 1 belongs to DL (currently on LAX-DCA), and 2 for AA (1 inherited from US and both in use currently on LAX-DCA.) All other DCA Beyond Perimeter awards are non-transferable and may not be changed in any way. Period.

DL could move their 'variable' slot to any city they wish that is more than 1,250 miles from DCA. When they originally received it in 2012, they used it for SLC-DCA -- the 2nd flight on that route -- and then moved it to LAX-DCA in April of 2017. If they were going to move it, I would expect SEA-DCA would be their choice. They could use it on SJC-DCA but I would fall over in shock if that should happen. That being said, I see no reason to believe DL has any plans to move their current LAX-DCA flight to any other city.

bb
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.


Presumably if there was large unmet demand on SJC-BOS, B6 would have expanded from their sole red eye at some point. SFO-BOS seems overserved at the moment, which probably discourages anyone from considering additional BOS-OAK/SJC flights.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5110
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:29 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.


Presumably if there was large unmet demand on SJC-BOS, B6 would have expanded from their sole red eye at some point. SFO-BOS seems overserved at the moment, which probably discourages anyone from considering additional BOS-OAK/SJC flights.

Oh come on now 'Tim'. What kind of logic is that?! Oh yeah, sensible and undoubtedly correct, that's what kind! (But does that have any place on A.net?) ;)

Also BoeingGuy, we need to remember that when AA apparently had 4x flights on that route, SJC was a hub for the carrier. The DOT pax traffic reported for 3Q2018 (summer) for the BOS-SJC market was 198 PDEW; for 1Q18 (winter), the figure was 125 PDEW. That's not a huge amount of O&D traffic.

bb
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6314
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:36 pm

SANFan wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
The first new route that came to my mind is SJC-BOS. That market seems really underserved. AA once had 4x on that route. I’m surprise AS hasn’t added it yet.


Presumably if there was large unmet demand on SJC-BOS, B6 would have expanded from their sole red eye at some point. SFO-BOS seems overserved at the moment, which probably discourages anyone from considering additional BOS-OAK/SJC flights.

Oh come on now 'Tim'. What kind of logic is that?! Oh yeah, sensible and undoubtedly correct, that's what kind! (But does that have any place on A.net?) ;)

Also BoeingGuy, we need to remember that when AA apparently had 4x flights on that route, SJC was a hub for the carrier. The DOT pax traffic reported for 3Q2018 (summer) for the BOS-SJC market was 198 PDEW; for 1Q18 (winter), the figure was 125 PDEW. That's not a huge amount of O&D traffic.

bb


Right. You also know the PDEW is skewed because of leakage to SFO. Just because 125 people travel from SJC-BOS doesn’t mean there isn’t demand for more. There could be many people going to SFO due to lack of options from SJC.

They by both of your logic, an airline should never add a new route? After all, if there was demand someone would already be flying it.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:50 pm

SANFan wrote:
N292UX wrote:
SJC-IAD is certainly possible, but I more likely see UA jumping the gun on that route first. The thing about SJC-DCA is would be that they would need to acquire 1 of the 20 slots which allows for the 1,250+ mile perimeter flights. They have 2 of those right now (1x LAX, 1x SLC), so their best bet would be to transfer one of those 2 flights to IAD unless they can acquire one from someone like AS (AA most certainly won't give up any). Transitioning either of those flights to IAD is probably a bad idea. If they were to transfer DCA-SLC to IAD, there would be no SLC service from DCA, but there would be 2 frequencies from IAD instead. Moving DCA-LAX to IAD would be a bad idea in the fact that they would straight up get destroyed by UA. AS and AA are also flying IAD-LAX and AA isn't exactly doing superb on that route from what I remember. Keeping DCA-LAX and DCA-SLC is probably a good idea considering keeping 1 SLC flight out of DCA is smart and entering the IAD-LAX bloodbath isn't the best idea.

To clarify, there are a total of four (4) DCA Beyond-Perimeter slots available to be moved right now -- 1 belongs to UA. (currently in use SFO-DCA), 1 belongs to DL (currently on LAX-DCA), and 2 for AA (1 inherited from US and both in use currently on LAX-DCA.) All other DCA Beyond Perimeter awards are non-transferable and may not be changed in any way. Period.

DL could move their 'variable' slot to any city they wish that is more than 1,250 miles from DCA. When they originally received it in 2012, they used it for SLC-DCA -- the 2nd flight on that route -- and then moved it to LAX-DCA in April of 2017. If they were going to move it, I would expect SEA-DCA would be their choice. They could use it on SJC-DCA but I would fall over in shock if that should happen. That being said, I see no reason to believe DL has any plans to move their current LAX-DCA flight to any other city.

bb


I can’t imagine DL pulling LAX or SLC for SJC, which are both hubs. I can easily see SJC-IAD, since SJC has no service on that route and only 1x to the area with WN to BWI.

As for UA, I can’t imagine them devoting any resources outside of SFO and their mega hub. They have shown little or no interest in expansion at SJC.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1356
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:52 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

Presumably if there was large unmet demand on SJC-BOS, B6 would have expanded from their sole red eye at some point. SFO-BOS seems overserved at the moment, which probably discourages anyone from considering additional BOS-OAK/SJC flights.

Oh come on now 'Tim'. What kind of logic is that?! Oh yeah, sensible and undoubtedly correct, that's what kind! (But does that have any place on A.net?) ;)

Also BoeingGuy, we need to remember that when AA apparently had 4x flights on that route, SJC was a hub for the carrier. The DOT pax traffic reported for 3Q2018 (summer) for the BOS-SJC market was 198 PDEW; for 1Q18 (winter), the figure was 125 PDEW. That's not a huge amount of O&D traffic.

bb


Right. You also know the PDEW is skewed because of leakage to SFO. Just because 125 people travel from SJC-BOS doesn’t mean there isn’t demand for more. There could be many people going to SFO due to lack of options from SJC.

They by both of your logic, an airline should never add a new route? After all, if there was demand someone would already be flying it.


Yes, THIS. Leakage to SFO has always been a major problem for growth at SJC. I believe the passengers are there, they just need something to draw them back to the South bay.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
SANFan wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

Presumably if there was large unmet demand on SJC-BOS, B6 would have expanded from their sole red eye at some point. SFO-BOS seems overserved at the moment, which probably discourages anyone from considering additional BOS-OAK/SJC flights.

Oh come on now 'Tim'. What kind of logic is that?! Oh yeah, sensible and undoubtedly correct, that's what kind! (But does that have any place on A.net?) ;)

Also BoeingGuy, we need to remember that when AA apparently had 4x flights on that route, SJC was a hub for the carrier. The DOT pax traffic reported for 3Q2018 (summer) for the BOS-SJC market was 198 PDEW; for 1Q18 (winter), the figure was 125 PDEW. That's not a huge amount of O&D traffic.

bb


Right. You also know the PDEW is skewed because of leakage to SFO. Just because 125 people travel from SJC-BOS doesn’t mean there isn’t demand for more. There could be many people going to SFO due to lack of options from SJC.

They by both of your logic, an airline should never add a new route? After all, if there was demand someone would already be flying it.


I am sensitive to your latter point and often make it myself. In this case, the flights exist at SFO and the airlines that fly them are unlikely to voluntarily give up market share there to move flights to a secondary airport, where they will still be competing with the cheap SFO flights and therefore likely lose money. If we were starting from scratch, OAK and SJC both likely have demand for multiple BOS flights, but not when there is an existing surplus of supply at SFO.
 
kavok
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:01 pm

I suspect it is just a matter of time before DL adds, and AA subsequently drops their remaining Upstate New York to Boston flights. Add in some West Jet flights from BOS to Eastern Canada, and DL can grow their new Boston hub.

I agree with the other posters that Delta is using the term “focus city” differently than the A.net interpretation of the term. In Deltas mind, a focus city is a city to focus resources on growing or protecting the market share.
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