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n2dru
Posts: 135
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:25 am

ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Other airports that should be considered Delta focus cities by having Nashville service as the minimum:

LAS: DL has TWICE as much service there as they do in BNA
TPA: still twice as much as BNA
MCO: THREE times as much service as BNA (and they have more non-hub destinations as they do hub flights.
MSY: about 200k more passengers per year than BNA

So... why aren’t these focus cities?

RDU I can understand. CVG is most definitely a focus city. BOS has most always been a hub.

But BNA and SJC? They have less traffic than a whole lot of non-focus cities


Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Actually flights to leisure markets are part of a focus city because those business travelers need flights to burn all those miles on and to take the family when not working.
 
ackerber
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:48 am

n2dru wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Actually flights to leisure markets are part of a focus city because those business travelers need flights to burn all those miles on and to take the family when not working.


Sure, they could throw in a few of these flights for vacationers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA - e.g. the seasonal CUN flight from BNA. But I don't think this is the main strategy here. They want to advertise to business travelers in these city just how many places they can get them non-stop that they need to go. For example, would a high tech business traveler who just moved to AUS rather have non-stops to all these places, or have 12 flights to DFW every day. Or if you work in Silicon Valley, wouldn't this P2P network out of SJC be a really good alternative to having to deal with SFO?
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:19 am

Business travelers in RDU very much care about TPA, MCO, and LAS. Lots of conventions there and business ties and upcoming opportunities. But I recall somewhere that the expected amount of seat increase for these stations (including RDU and CVG) was in the single digits. So that needs to be equated to flights. From what I recall, it was probably about 2-3 new flights each (except SJC which was like 20% so about 5-10 flights???). So for some, that could be a few new P2P or upguaging or new flights to the hubs. We don’t know but I would think all options are on the board. For RDU, I can see a SJC Daily flight and hopefully a couple of DFW flights OR the overdue elusive AMS flightrhat was the possibility when the CDG was launched...
Aiming High and going far..
 
axiom
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:48 am

ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Other airports that should be considered Delta focus cities by having Nashville service as the minimum:

LAS: DL has TWICE as much service there as they do in BNA
TPA: still twice as much as BNA
MCO: THREE times as much service as BNA (and they have more non-hub destinations as they do hub flights.
MSY: about 200k more passengers per year than BNA

So... why aren’t these focus cities?

RDU I can understand. CVG is most definitely a focus city. BOS has most always been a hub.

But BNA and SJC? They have less traffic than a whole lot of non-focus cities


Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.
 
axiom
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:48 am

ERJ170 wrote:
Business travelers in RDU very much care about TPA, MCO, and LAS. Lots of conventions there and business ties and upcoming opportunities.


+1
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:47 pm

axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


To add to this, many companies are moving (or have moved) certain functions, often related to operations or high skill manufacturing to cities with lower costs, but with the right skills/workforce availability. Many financial companies have offices in (so called) second tier cities, and there is a lot of business travel between the mother ship and these offices. Just thinking through the companies that I have some awareness of, financial cities with headquarters in the usual major finance centers have operations or servicing offices in Jacksonville, Tampa, Columbus, OH, Phoenix, Nashville, Knoxville and so on...

The same is true for technology companies. The strategy and design work may be in SF/SJ, Boston, RDU, Austin, Brooklyn etc.., but the actual production and support is done from a different location. For example, a tech company that I have worked with has major support services in secondary cities in South Carolina and Missouri (not STL/KC).
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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spinotter
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:54 pm

axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


That all makes sense, but then why do you think DL is choosing to call AUS, SJC, and BNA focus cities, and not MCO or TPA?
 
axiom
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:50 pm

spinotter wrote:
axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:


I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


That all makes sense, but then why do you think DL is choosing to call AUS, SJC, and BNA focus cities, and not MCO or TPA?


I’ve already outlined my position. I see it as a combination of marketing and strategy. The extent to which it will be more than an empty signifier remains to be seen. These new focus city markets need to see a lot of development to match the revenue contribution of larger “bread and butter” markets, and have good prospects. We’ll see what happens! (I mean that in an open, rather than snarky way.)
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:59 pm

ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Other airports that should be considered Delta focus cities by having Nashville service as the minimum:

LAS: DL has TWICE as much service there as they do in BNA
TPA: still twice as much as BNA
MCO: THREE times as much service as BNA (and they have more non-hub destinations as they do hub flights.
MSY: about 200k more passengers per year than BNA

So... why aren’t these focus cities?

RDU I can understand. CVG is most definitely a focus city. BOS has most always been a hub.

But BNA and SJC? They have less traffic than a whole lot of non-focus cities


Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


You do realize that business people tend to go on vacation with their families....and often want to use their business miles to offset that cost.
 
digitalman12
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:16 pm

I've also noticed that DL is starting to offer connections through BNA on their website. Doesn't really mean much (they've connected between hubs at MCI for years) but noticed this seemed new since the announcement
 
RobertS975
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:18 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
pitbosflyer wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:

What does that consist of? Losing the Paris flight?


Yeah DL unceremoniously cut the PIT-CDG flight recently. After recently up-gauging it as well.


It seemed like PIT-CDG went because the airport authority either a) thought they could support four TATL flights and flew too close to the Sun in doing so or b) added PIT-LHR realizing they might lose CDG and that losing DL but gaining BA would be a net gain.


What's the real difference between arriving in BOS terminal E from an international flight, clearing CBP, rechecking your checked luggage with a dedicated DL desk, and making the 5-10 minute moving walkway hike to terminal A, going through TSA security again, and boarding your ongoing connecting flight vs arriving ATL terminal E or F, clearing CBP, handing your luggage off, reclearing TSA security and then making the 10-20 hike to your next ATL gate?
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:44 pm

Is it time for JetBlue to pile on the flights at ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC?
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:03 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Is it time for JetBlue to pile on the flights at ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC?


B6 doesn't have the resources (aircraft, gates, etc.) to cause DL any significant pain at any of their core hubs without losing a ton of money themselves. Alaska tried to cause DL some pain at SLC when DL started beefing up their domestic ops at SEA, and it didn't seem to work too well (most of the initially launched retaliatory routes were cut or downgauged).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
BDLtoORD
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:08 pm

digitalman12 wrote:
I've also noticed that DL is starting to offer connections through BNA on their website. Doesn't really mean much (they've connected between hubs at MCI for years) but noticed this seemed new since the announcement


FWIW, BNA has come up as a connection on DL.com for years on my end. To that extent, I have also noticed MCO, LAS, IND, PDX, and I believe a few other non-hub/focus cities pop up as connections as well when I am searching flights from ATL or other DL stations.
 
Nola
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:17 pm

n2dru wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Actually flights to leisure markets are part of a focus city because those business travelers need flights to burn all those miles on and to take the family when not working.


Don't forget the heavy convention business in LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY....
 
jetlanta
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:21 pm

Fargo wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Other airports that should be considered Delta focus cities by having Nashville service as the minimum:

LAS: DL has TWICE as much service there as they do in BNA
TPA: still twice as much as BNA
MCO: THREE times as much service as BNA (and they have more non-hub destinations as they do hub flights.
MSY: about 200k more passengers per year than BNA

So... why aren’t these focus cities?

RDU I can understand. CVG is most definitely a focus city. BOS has most always been a hub.

But BNA and SJC? They have less traffic than a whole lot of non-focus cities


Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?


IMO, focus city is the wrong term to use, since there definition doesn’t match up with the traditional definition. It’s unlikely the likes of BNA and SJC will get p2p service, so they will simply be large outstations.


I work in the field and I'm not aware of any traditional definition of a Focus City. I'm sure every airline that has them views them differently. For Delta, it means a comprehensive focus on the local origination market, including network, sales and marketing. That kind of effort isn't always present in most outstations.
 
ackerber
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:24 pm

axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


It's not about GDP - its about attracting a type of business traveler that lives and travels between a set of cities with a P2P network. Anyway, we will see what happens but I just don't see Delta starting alot of new flights between SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS and MCO/TPA/LAS. OTOH I do predict that they starting alot of new flights between SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS and SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS.
 
jetlanta
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:45 pm

axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?



I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate the condescension. I've done this stuff for a living for 25 years, but you've really helped me understand it now.

I'm explaining to you how Delta views these markets in terms of defining them as focus cities. I'm not trying to insert my opinion about the opportunities these markets present to the industry as a whole. Delta is NOT focusing on the cities you mention because the upside is basically built out in those places for Delta. They serve them comprehensively via their existing network and don't anticipate growing them much beyond where the are today. Delta has already built all the infrastructure they need to support the local point of sale in those places, but that said, they aren't packed with tech, professional services and financial services companies that Delta wants to target moving forward. In addition, those cities have massive airports with very high concentration of LCC/ULCC capacity and rapid growth. Delta simply doesn't feel that their best future opportunities are FOCUSED in those cities.

Should I stop posing now?
 
adtall
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:49 pm

ackerber wrote:

It's not about GDP - its about attracting a type of business traveler that lives and travels between a set of cities with a P2P network. Anyway, we will see what happens but I just don't see Delta starting alot of new flights between SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS and MCO/TPA/LAS. OTOH I do predict that they starting alot of new flights between SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS and SJC/AUS/RDU/BNA/BOS.


They already fly a lot of those routes. BOS-RDU, BOS-BNA, BOS-AUS, RDU-BNA, RDU-AUS already exist. Subtract SJC and they're only missing BNA-AUS.
 
axiom
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:49 pm

jetlanta wrote:
axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:


I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate the condescension. I've done this stuff for a living for 25 years, but you've really helped me understand it now.

I'm explaining to you how Delta views these markets in terms of defining them as focus cities. I'm not trying to insert my opinion about the opportunities these markets present to the industry as a whole. Delta is NOT focusing on the cities you mention because the upside is basically built out in those places for Delta. They serve them comprehensively via their existing network and don't anticipate growing them much beyond where the are today. Delta has already built all the infrastructure they need to support the local point of sale in those places, but that said, they aren't packed with tech, professional services and financial services companies that Delta wants to target moving forward. In addition, those cities have are massive airports with very high concentration of LCC/ULCC capacity and rapid growth. Delta simply doesn't feel that their best future opportunities are FOCUSED in those cities.

Should I stop posing now?


I wasn’t responding to you — perhaps you should pay more attention before pulling out the big guns. On the contrary, I agree with the substance of your post.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:55 pm

jetlanta wrote:
axiom wrote:
ackerber wrote:


I dont' think business travelers in AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA care much about non-stop flights to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. They care about non-stop flights to AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA (plus ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, plus a flight to europe, plus maybe a few other places like ORD, DCA, DFW)

LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY are leisure heavy markets that are going to continue to have lots of flights to hubs, but I don't think are really part of this "focus" city p2p network for business travellers that Delta wants.


Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate the condescension. I've done this stuff for a living for 25 years, but you've really helped me understand it now.

I'm explaining to you how Delta views these markets in terms of defining them as focus cities. I'm not trying to insert my opinion about the opportunities these markets present to the industry as a whole. Delta is NOT focusing on the cities you mention because the upside is basically built out in those places for Delta. They serve them comprehensively via their existing network and don't anticipate growing them much beyond where the are today. Delta has already built all the infrastructure they need to support the local point of sale in those places, but that said, they aren't packed with tech, professional services and financial services companies that Delta wants to target moving forward. In addition, those cities have massive airports with very high concentration of LCC/ULCC capacity and rapid growth. Delta simply doesn't feel that their best future opportunities are FOCUSED in those cities.

Should I stop posing now?


Yes, because a.net posters whose expertise is largely limited to spotting airplanes and reading schedules know better than you, the airlines, the industry people and other experts. Big wink ;)
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:08 pm

FSDan wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is it time for JetBlue to pile on the flights at ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC?


B6 doesn't have the resources (aircraft, gates, etc.) to cause DL any significant pain at any of their core hubs without losing a ton of money themselves. Alaska tried to cause DL some pain at SLC when DL started beefing up their domestic ops at SEA, and it didn't seem to work too well (most of the initially launched retaliatory routes were cut or downgauged).


They could easily add JFK-MSP/DTW and put mint on JFK-SLC if they wanted to and it wouldn't be that costly to them.

What they really need to do to pile pressure on DL is adding BOS-IND/CVG/CMH/MEM/SDF which would basically ensure there won't be any profitable market for DL out of BOS in the near future. More than anything, their entrance into JFK/BOS TATL markets would be a far better and smarter way of responding than trying to operate flights to nowhere out of DL fortress hubs. And they can do it profitably.

As for the other cities, I get their process is to capture the cities of growth and new industry. And they have the bank roll to fund projects if they wanted to. But reality is so much of their profits are made from dominating cities without the new age industries. These deserted cities that are underserved are the new market inefficiencies.

Everyone wants to expand in AUS and SJC these days. WN is looking to turn BNA into their southeast fortress station. I don't see DL ready to get into a dogfight with WN in any of these cities. If they do, I bet B6 and AS will be very happy.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:23 pm

Considering that San Jose/Santa Clara has close business ties with DJI, Huawei and Alibaba, one idea I had was Delta experimenting with SJC-HGH or SJC-SZX using an A330 or A350.

However, even United couldn't make SFO-HGH work, and Air China already tried PVG-SJC without success (it became a second PEK-SFO slot, 3 weekly). Maybe SFO-PVG is more practical since each airport is relatively close to their tech hubs. SFO is a short bus ride from Millbrae Caltrain via the Airport Flyer, whereas there's a shuttle bus between PVG and Hongqiao East station + high speed rail that'll get you to Hangzhou railway station in ~2 hours for less than $15 US. As for SZ, CX already has triple daily HKG-SFO (77W, 359 and 3510), and the SkyPier ferry will take you from Chek Lap Kok to the main Shekou ferry terminal in 40 minutes for HK$295 (less than $40 US). At any rate, HZ/SZ-based companies already have large offices in SH (same with Wenzhou and Yiwu).

What really shocks me is the lack of direct SFO-SZX service
Last edited by leftcoast8 on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
axiom
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:27 pm

AirFiero wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
axiom wrote:

Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate the condescension. I've done this stuff for a living for 25 years, but you've really helped me understand it now.

I'm explaining to you how Delta views these markets in terms of defining them as focus cities. I'm not trying to insert my opinion about the opportunities these markets present to the industry as a whole. Delta is NOT focusing on the cities you mention because the upside is basically built out in those places for Delta. They serve them comprehensively via their existing network and don't anticipate growing them much beyond where the are today. Delta has already built all the infrastructure they need to support the local point of sale in those places, but that said, they aren't packed with tech, professional services and financial services companies that Delta wants to target moving forward. In addition, those cities have massive airports with very high concentration of LCC/ULCC capacity and rapid growth. Delta simply doesn't feel that their best future opportunities are FOCUSED in those cities.

Should I stop posing now?


Yes, because a.net posters whose expertise is largely limited to spotting airplanes and reading schedules know better than you, the airlines, the industry people and other experts. Big wink ;)


:roll:
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is it time for JetBlue to pile on the flights at ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC?


B6 doesn't have the resources (aircraft, gates, etc.) to cause DL any significant pain at any of their core hubs without losing a ton of money themselves. Alaska tried to cause DL some pain at SLC when DL started beefing up their domestic ops at SEA, and it didn't seem to work too well (most of the initially launched retaliatory routes were cut or downgauged).


They could easily add JFK-MSP/DTW and put mint on JFK-SLC if they wanted to and it wouldn't be that costly to them.


Sure, but it wouldn't be very costly to DL either. A significant amount of DL's traffic on both MSP-JFK and DTW-JFK is connecting on one end or the other, and B6 probably wouldn't be able to siphon off much of that. B6 could steal some of the O&D traffic by undercutting DL's fares, but I'm not sure that's worth chasing for B6. A lot of the higher yield O&D traffic will prefer LGA over JFK anyway.

tphuang wrote:
What they really need to do to pile pressure on DL is adding BOS-IND/CVG/CMH/MEM/SDF which would basically ensure there won't be any profitable market for DL out of BOS in the near future.


Opening up all those new stations (with all the associated startup costs) just to compete in markets where DL is stronger on the non-BOS end and will match or beat B6 on frequency doesn't sound like a winning strategy to put pressure on DL. If the point of sale traffic was stronger on the BOS end than on the spoke end it could help B6 out, but I doubt that's the case for most of these.

I agree that adding some key TATL markets (assuming they can get competitive slots at preferred airports) is a better way for B6 to maintain or improve their position with corporate travelers in BOS and put some pressure on DL.
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:55 pm

jetlanta wrote:
Fargo wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Because they are primarily destinations. Focus Cities are markets where the Delta wants to be the premier business airline. The types of customers that Delta is targeting live in places like AUS, BNA, SJC, BOS, NYC, LAX, SEA, ATL but they travel to LAS, TPA, MCO and MSY. Does that make sense?


IMO, focus city is the wrong term to use, since there definition doesn’t match up with the traditional definition. It’s unlikely the likes of BNA and SJC will get p2p service, so they will simply be large outstations.


I work in the field and I'm not aware of any traditional definition of a Focus City. I'm sure every airline that has them views them differently. For Delta, it means a comprehensive focus on the local origination market, including network, sales and marketing. That kind of effort isn't always present in most outstations.


Curious though, what changes long term? Does AUS, BNA and SJC get elevated to the same level as RDU/CVG with p2p flying and TATL service or do they remain hub-only flying? Or is the strategy different in all three markets? This is what I’m confused about.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:34 am

FSDan wrote:
Sure, but it wouldn't be very costly to DL either. A significant amount of DL's traffic on both MSP-JFK and DTW-JFK is connecting on one end or the other, and B6 probably wouldn't be able to siphon off much of that. B6 could steal some of the O&D traffic by undercutting DL's fares, but I'm not sure that's worth chasing for B6. A lot of the higher yield O&D traffic will prefer LGA over JFK anyway.

it wouldn't be, but these are the kind of routes they need to be operating anyway and there was a noticeable drop in DL's JFK-ATL fare last year.

tphuang wrote:
What they really need to do to pile pressure on DL is adding BOS-IND/CVG/CMH/MEM/SDF which would basically ensure there won't be any profitable market for DL out of BOS in the near future.


Opening up all those new stations (with all the associated startup costs) just to compete in markets where DL is stronger on the non-BOS end and will match or beat B6 on frequency doesn't sound like a winning strategy to put pressure on DL. If the point of sale traffic was stronger on the BOS end than on the spoke end it could help B6 out, but I doubt that's the case for most of these.

First of all, they need to add these routes to complete their BOS network and get to their target goal of probably 40+% domestic market share. Otherwise, what are those 6 new gates going to be used for?
The mere presence of B6 would tank the yield immediately on those routes. If it happened on BOS-ATL/MSP where average fares for DL fell 40 to 50%, it would be hard to imagine that would not happen in these former focus cities. As for your second point, I think you haven't been paying attention to the yields i've been posting out of BOS.
I agree that adding some key TATL markets (assuming they can get competitive slots at preferred airports) is a better way for B6 to maintain or improve their position with corporate travelers in BOS and put some pressure on DL.

It wouldn't just be BOS. It would be JFK and also one stop itineraries to Europe. Given DL and ST's strength in Europe, they'd likely be more affected by a B6 TATL play than UA and AA. If you consider the amount of ASM DL has to Europe out of JFK, even a smaller drop in margin would be more significant than a larger drop in margin at BOS.

And more broadly, with AA retreating at JFK, DL and B6 will divide up the spoils. Up to this point, DL has picked up the vast majority of former AA ff. But B6 has been winning over some with mint and it will be in a better position to pick up more and get more wall street corporate contract and more credit card holders once it starts to flying to Europe.

I'm way off topic now, so I will stop here.
 
jetlanta
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:20 am

axiom wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
axiom wrote:

Here we go again -- another person who doesn't understand economic geography.

Which region do you think has the higher GDP? RDU or MCO? BNA or TPA?

Hint: MCO and TPA (TPA being almost double that of RDU).

A few things here: Places like MCO and TPA have large economies that stimulate their own business demand for travel. Business is a two-way street: people have to buy the things being made in RDU and AUS. DL has long recognized this, and has capitalized on serving business communities in places like MCO and TPA. They've have Sky Clubs, P2P service, and international long haul on DL -- in some cases for decades. Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.

This gross simplification of air travel markets needs to stop. Yes, there is Mickey Mouse and a beach or two, but if you think that's the only thing driving profitable air service demand from a region with 8 million people, you might want to stop posting.


Thanks for the pointers. Really appreciate the condescension. I've done this stuff for a living for 25 years, but you've really helped me understand it now.

I'm explaining to you how Delta views these markets in terms of defining them as focus cities. I'm not trying to insert my opinion about the opportunities these markets present to the industry as a whole. Delta is NOT focusing on the cities you mention because the upside is basically built out in those places for Delta. They serve them comprehensively via their existing network and don't anticipate growing them much beyond where the are today. Delta has already built all the infrastructure they need to support the local point of sale in those places, but that said, they aren't packed with tech, professional services and financial services companies that Delta wants to target moving forward. In addition, those cities have are massive airports with very high concentration of LCC/ULCC capacity and rapid growth. Delta simply doesn't feel that their best future opportunities are FOCUSED in those cities.

Should I stop posing now?


I wasn’t responding to you — perhaps you should pay more attention before pulling out the big guns. On the contrary, I agree with the substance of your post.


I apologize. I misread the quotation.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:42 am

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Is it time for JetBlue to pile on the flights at ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC?


B6 doesn't have the resources (aircraft, gates, etc.) to cause DL any significant pain at any of their core hubs without losing a ton of money themselves. Alaska tried to cause DL some pain at SLC when DL started beefing up their domestic ops at SEA, and it didn't seem to work too well (most of the initially launched retaliatory routes were cut or downgauged).


They could easily add JFK-MSP/DTW and put mint on JFK-SLC if they wanted to and it wouldn't be that costly to them.

What they really need to do to pile pressure on DL is adding BOS-IND/CVG/CMH/MEM/SDF which would basically ensure there won't be any profitable market for DL out of BOS in the near future. More than anything, their entrance into JFK/BOS TATL markets would be a far better and smarter way of responding than trying to operate flights to nowhere out of DL fortress hubs. And they can do it profitably.

As for the other cities, I get their process is to capture the cities of growth and new industry. And they have the bank roll to fund projects if they wanted to. But reality is so much of their profits are made from dominating cities without the new age industries. These deserted cities that are underserved are the new market inefficiencies.

Everyone wants to expand in AUS and SJC these days. WN is looking to turn BNA into their southeast fortress station. I don't see DL ready to get into a dogfight with WN in any of these cities. If they do, I bet B6 and AS will be very happy.


B6 is getting left out. They have an east-coast centric network. Red-eyes from the west coast, in some cases the only flights from some cities don't cut it. They had a chance at a reasonably sized focus city in AUS, but that ship seems to have sailed. There is a very large hunk of the fly-over part of the country where they are lagging, and they don't seem inclined to fill that void.
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digitalman12
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:54 pm

I was at the new Austin SkyClub this morning and one of the women who works there told me that DL is launching AUS-AMS this year, as well as "more direct flights" (none specified) when and if they are able to get full access to the new gates that they currently share with AS/BA/LH/NK etc etc. I know there is a lot of snake oil to go around surrounding AUS (especially w/Delta) but this was the first time I'd heard it from an employee
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:52 pm

digitalman12 wrote:
I was at the new Austin SkyClub this morning and one of the women who works there told me that DL is launching AUS-AMS this year, as well as "more direct flights" (none specified) when and if they are able to get full access to the new gates that they currently share with AS/BA/LH/NK etc etc. I know there is a lot of snake oil to go around surrounding AUS (especially w/Delta) but this was the first time I'd heard it from an employee


This is pretty in line with what I have heard, that DL will elevate AUS to RDU/CVG status in the future. I have not heard the same for BNA or SJC however, other than BNA possibly getting AMS as well.
 
EK77WNH
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Moxy is setting its sights on a 'technology center that isn't silicon valley.' To me, that screams AUS. Perhaps a preemptive move.
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:22 pm

axiom wrote:
Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.


Delta breaks down revenue by market and makes it public? Where did you find this? I’ve only seen it broken down by geographic markets/regions: domestic, Atlantic, Latin America and Pacific.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:29 pm

EK77WNH wrote:
Moxy is setting its sights on a 'technology center that isn't silicon valley.' To me, that screams AUS. Perhaps a preemptive move.


Actually to me , that screams SAT... just down the road and less fighting for space than there is in AUS, and we know SAT-BOS for example is the biggest PDEW without a direct flight..
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Midwestindy
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 pm

questions wrote:
axiom wrote:
Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.


Delta breaks down revenue by market and makes it public? Where did you find this? I’ve only seen it broken down by geographic markets/regions: domestic, Atlantic, Latin America and Pacific.


It's publicly available data through the DOT, but since you asked here is a summary from a few years ago:

Image

To be clear revenue does NOT equal profit though
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questions
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:44 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
questions wrote:
axiom wrote:
Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.


Delta breaks down revenue by market and makes it public? Where did you find this? I’ve only seen it broken down by geographic markets/regions: domestic, Atlantic, Latin America and Pacific.


It's publicly available data through the DOT, but since you asked here is a summary from a few years ago:

Image

To be clear revenue does NOT equal profit though


Thanks! As defined by outbound O&D revenue — I was curious about that.

I understand. :)
 
bnatraveler
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
questions wrote:
axiom wrote:
Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.


Delta breaks down revenue by market and makes it public? Where did you find this? I’ve only seen it broken down by geographic markets/regions: domestic, Atlantic, Latin America and Pacific.


It's publicly available data through the DOT, but since you asked here is a summary from a few years ago:

Image

To be clear revenue does NOT equal profit though


I would love an updated version of this - I think that 2018 (and 2019) will show marked changes.
 
LovePrunesAnet
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:50 am

digitalman12 wrote:
I was at the new Austin SkyClub this morning and one of the women who works there told me that DL is launching AUS-AMS this year, as well as "more direct flights" (none specified) when and if they are able to get full access to the new gates that they currently share with AS/BA/LH/NK etc etc. I know there is a lot of snake oil to go around surrounding AUS (especially w/Delta) but this was the first time I'd heard it from an employee


this reminds me of posts on theme park forums...rumors of planned new roller coasters being confirmed by the "dippin' dots guy"...the staff member selling ice cream at the food stand in the park who somehow knows strategic moves that the parent company is doing for upcoming capital development for its guests. On frequent travel forums, it's the flight attendants and pilots "confirming" new flights and plans. We are halfway through 2019, I think if they were planning to fly a new int'l flight it'd be announced by now to have ample time to sell tickets. Just skeptical is all, about what a front desk lounge employee really knows. No doubt that she said it to the person who posted it; just doubt the lounge lady knows what she's talking about. No just Austin, that'd apply for any airport.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:25 pm

Which alliance is DL in?
 
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compensateme
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:36 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?


Is this a serious question????
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
N292UX
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:20 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?

Star Alliance :D
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:42 pm

N292UX wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?

Star Alliance :D

Actually it’s SkyTeam...
 
AirFiero
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:15 pm

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?


Is this a serious question????


Yes. I don’t fly DL. And it’s a conversation starter. The next question would be, what potential international airlines, especially to Asia, might DL connect with on the West coast? Especially, potentially at SJC as was discussed earlier in this thread.
 
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Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:28 pm

AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?


Is this a serious question????


Yes. I don’t fly DL. And it’s a conversation starter. The next question would be, what potential international airlines, especially to Asia, might DL connect with on the West coast? Especially, potentially at SJC as was discussed earlier in this thread.


We're in a conversation. Asking a question that would've yielded a solution faster if you Googled it vs. pressing "submit" here will merely cause you to annoy people.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:36 pm

AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?


Is this a serious question????


Yes. I don’t fly DL. And it’s a conversation starter. The next question would be, what potential international airlines, especially to Asia, might DL connect with on the West coast? Especially, potentially at SJC as was discussed earlier in this thread.


SJC-NRT/TPE/CDG, those old AA routes from the early 2000s I think.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:44 am

compensateme wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Is this a serious question????


Yes. I don’t fly DL. And it’s a conversation starter. The next question would be, what potential international airlines, especially to Asia, might DL connect with on the West coast? Especially, potentially at SJC as was discussed earlier in this thread.


We're in a conversation. Asking a question that would've yielded a solution faster if you Googled it vs. pressing "submit" here will merely cause you to annoy people.


Yes I know I could have googled it. But a.nutters seem to get too easily annoyed.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:55 am

Ishrion wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
compensateme wrote:

Is this a serious question????


Yes. I don’t fly DL. And it’s a conversation starter. The next question would be, what potential international airlines, especially to Asia, might DL connect with on the West coast? Especially, potentially at SJC as was discussed earlier in this thread.


SJC-NRT/TPE/CDG, those old AA routes from the early 2000s I think.


Sorry, I meant that in the context of DL or it’s partner airlines. There might be some possibilities with AF, KL, KE and possibly the Chinese carriers. Not to mention HA, which already serves Hawaii from SJC.
 
jagraham
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:04 am

Midwestindy wrote:
questions wrote:
axiom wrote:
Last I checked, MCO and TPA drive a far greater share of DL revenue than RDU, BNA, AUS.


Delta breaks down revenue by market and makes it public? Where did you find this? I’ve only seen it broken down by geographic markets/regions: domestic, Atlantic, Latin America and Pacific.


It's publicly available data through the DOT, but since you asked here is a summary from a few years ago:

Image

To be clear revenue does NOT equal profit though


Revenue does not equal profit, but with stage length, and aircraft type percentages added to the mix, a reasonable guess could be made. For example, my hometown of Chicago is pretty high in yield . . but with the shuttle being all RJ and some other RJ in the mix, profit is there, but not that high. That is why CVG was dehubbed (although CVG was mostly CR2s at the time and there was the Comair issues). I think CVG was the major situation where yield was high, but CASM was higher. DTW and MSP have a lot of RJ flying too, but much more of that is 70 and 76 seat RJs which have lower CASM.

But these are nits. I'm jealous because I don't know how to do the queries for the DoT database. Somebody should do a primer on that.
 
flySFO
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:26 am

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:12 am

SJC opened a new interim facility with 6 gates to the south of Terminal B last week. Southwest will now operate out of the southern 14 gates in Terminal B and Alaska will consolidate into the rest of Terminal B. The news article I read specifically called out the effect this will have on other airlines in Terminal A giving them more room to expand, "including Delta who recently named SJC a focus city".
 
N292UX
Posts: 413
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: Delta transitions BOS to Hub status, names SJC, BNA, and AUS as new focus cities

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:44 am

cessna2 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Which alliance is DL in?

Star Alliance :D

Actually it’s SkyTeam...

I was joking there, DL's obviously in SkyTeam. UA's in Star Alliance.
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