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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:05 pm

The reduction is 1X LAXPAE and 1X PDXPAE to fund the PSPPAE and PHXPAE flying.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
khinstorff
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:27 pm

I'm not that familiar with how much land there is available, but how many gates could the airport feasibly expand to in the future?
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:32 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
The reduction is 1X LAXPAE and 1X PDXPAE to fund the PSPPAE and PHXPAE flying.

:checkmark: Here's a link to the info found in AS's blog: https://blog.alaskaair.com/destinations ... he-desert/

And here's a quote from the blog:
“We’re optimizing our flight schedule to improve our operations,” said Fredrickson. “By flying three roundtrips a day instead of four to Portland and L.A., we can better provide the key flight times preferred by our business travelers, and allow for better connection windows.”

So it looks like there may be changes to the PAE schedule on some or all 9 routes starting Nov 5. Maybe that will roll out this weekend...

bb
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:48 pm

Maybe they will just move some of the reduced freq routes on to 737. Or airbus :)
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:18 pm

I thought GEG but PSP makes much more sense...I know plenty of people that live in the north Sound that have homes in PSP as well. Very smart addition!
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:02 pm

SANFan wrote:
“By flying three roundtrips a day instead of four to Portland and L.A., we can better provide the key flight times preferred by our business travelers, and allow for better connection windows.”
Wow, talk about spin!
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:15 pm

It occurred to me that the times of the new PSP flights are very nicely suited to hotel stays: arrive the Springs ~3pm and after the turn there, the return flight leaves just before 4! So those folks who don't have homes in the desert are being nicely accommodated for their pay-to-stay arrangements.

Nicely done AS! This new and limited-service airport appears to be working well for the carrier, and vice versa. It will be interesting to see how much the other scheduled flights to and from PAE will be changed; obviously LA and PDX will be tweaked to provide well-timed service with 3 flights rather than the current 4. And as I and others have said, maybe we'll even see a mainline jet or two introduced to cover the lost capacity on those routes, or to gain some capacity on other routes. This might even be determined by the MAX9 situation; if those new planes start arriving in the second half of this year (as planned/hoped) who knows what we might see?

I do wonder, as have others on this thread, if AS will operate this PSP route year-round (as well as the 2nd PHX flight?) The Puget Sound is obviously the place to be in the summer! But we're going to have to wait a while to see what AS does next summer. I personally expect there might be lots of great new things happening then with AAG!

bb
 
N383SW
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:16 pm

dashdrvr wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
My guess is that some of the routes are not working out for AS...maybe there will be new mainline service. It appears AS is replacing a LAX flight with a PHX flight. Or UA is reducing their flights at PAE already.

I have ridden on a number of flights and inside intel indicates routes are doing very well. Honestly thought it would take a bit for routes to catch on. From what I have observed it didn't take long at all. The only issue so far is crew staffing is only a third of what was originally planned. The other two thirds is being staffed out of SEA and PDX and apparently is very inefficient and costly. The company has other options so don't see it as a deal breaker.


Does QX have a crew base at PAE or were you talking about overall crew staffing?
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:51 pm

I kind of think in a way the market has spoken to Alaska.

People want to go nonstop from PAE and not connect in PDX unless it is to get home to PAE during a weather or maintenance misconnect.

Sure PDX is a convenient plus option as an alternative to the hourly shuttle at SEA for granola Northwesterners, but nonstop elsewhere is far far better.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:18 pm

SANFan wrote:
It occurred to me that the times of the new PSP flights are very nicely suited to hotel stays: arrive the Springs ~3pm and after the turn there, the return flight leaves just before 4! So those folks who don't have homes in the desert are being nicely accommodated for their pay-to-stay arrangements.

Nicely done AS! This new and limited-service airport appears to be working well for the carrier, and vice versa. It will be interesting to see how much the other scheduled flights to and from PAE will be changed; obviously LA and PDX will be tweaked to provide well-timed service with 3 flights rather than the current 4. And as I and others have said, maybe we'll even see a mainline jet or two introduced to cover the lost capacity on those routes, or to gain some capacity on other routes. This might even be determined by the MAX9 situation; if those new planes start arriving in the second half of this year (as planned/hoped) who knows what we might see?

I do wonder, as have others on this thread, if AS will operate this PSP route year-round (as well as the 2nd PHX flight?) The Puget Sound is obviously the place to be in the summer! But we're going to have to wait a while to see what AS does next summer. I personally expect there might be lots of great new things happening then with AAG!

bb


It's hard to imagine it being year-round given the summer doldrums in PSP, but who's to say. Hopefully we'll know a bit more soon.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:40 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:

It's hard to imagine it being year-round given the summer doldrums in PSP, but who's to say. Hopefully we'll know a bit more soon.


At least locally PSP is becoming a lot busier in the summer. I haven’t looked to see what summer passenger counts look like. There’s definitely a lot of people that like the heat and/or less expensive hotel/vacation rates that allow them to do their Instagram swimsuit shoots.

Remains to be seen if that means a secondary airport can sustain off season service.
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:46 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Alaska could also axe the 9pm PAE-PDX and 7amish PDX-PAE flight without causing uproar. Well it might piss off 2 or 3 passengers.


Are the load factors on those flights low?


Those 2 are by far the weakest. I don't even want to publicly disclose loads, but uh, yeah. I'm surprised they just don't cancel the flight every day. There are days where there are more crew members on board....
xx
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:47 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I kind of think in a way the market has spoken to Alaska.

People want to go nonstop from PAE and not connect in PDX unless it is to get home to PAE during a weather or maintenance misconnect.

Sure PDX is a convenient plus option as an alternative to the hourly shuttle at SEA for granola Northwesterners, but nonstop elsewhere is far far better.


The morning PDX-PAE is also one of the weakest flights they're operating.
xx
 
flyoregon
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:30 pm

I always felt like PDX-PAE was a weird route to do 4x daily. The only way it made sense was if the connection opportunities to east coast i.e. IAD, ATL, FLL, etc. were available, but they're not. Why would anyone want to connect from PAE to go to California when the E175 can do it fine and when PAE has n/s service to the popular CA/NV/AZ destinations.
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:43 pm

flyoregon wrote:
I always felt like PDX-PAE was a weird route to do 4x daily. The only way it made sense was if the connection opportunities to east coast i.e. IAD, ATL, FLL, etc. were available, but they're not. Why would anyone want to connect from PAE to go to California when the E175 can do it fine and when PAE has n/s service to the popular CA/NV/AZ destinations.

Maybe AS suspected PAE-PDX-PAE would be somewhat weak but they wanted to operate all 18 of their daily flights out of PAE from the beginning just to make sure nobody took any unused ones away? They also wanted to see how all the other routes did and would rework things at, for example, the end of the summer, as needed. Perhaps it was the same thinking with LAX although I didn't suspect 4 would be too many for the LA market.

It's also possible that the RON in PDX might be mostly to park one of the EMJs somewhere other than PAE. They have 5 RONs at Paine Field now and I have no idea what UA RONs there. There must be a limit as to how many airplanes can spend the night there. It's certainly the shortest flight AS op's out of PAE. (I realize Paine Field is a large airport with lots of real estate but I assume the air terminal area is an 'isolated' piece of the property.)

bb
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:19 pm

There are a lot of people north of Seattle that may prefer a quick connection in PDX to get to their destination instead of making the slog through downtown Seattle and then experience the hassle of SeaTac Airport, assuming their destinations would not be served from PAE anyway. Places like JFK, ORD, DCA, BOS, BWI, PHL, MCO, etc. PDX airport is relatively hassle free as far as connections go - the terminal is user friendly and not difficult to navigate. It seems like a couple well timed flights could do well.
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:44 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
There are a lot of people north of Seattle that may prefer a quick connection in PDX to get to their destination instead of making the slog through downtown Seattle and then experience the hassle of SeaTac Airport, assuming their destinations would not be served from PAE anyway. Places like JFK, ORD, DCA, BOS, BWI, PHL, MCO, etc. PDX airport is relatively hassle free as far as connections go - the terminal is user friendly and not difficult to navigate. It seems like a couple well timed flights could do well.


I’ve actually thought about doing that too. Problem is sometimes the connections in PDX may not work well. I know someone who just considered connecting in PDX to go to OAK. It was going to be like a four hour layover. They ended up going out of SEA, but would have preferred PAE.

In general I’m really excited about the PAE service. I’ve already done it and it was great.
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:03 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
USAavdork wrote:
I apologize Planes and Trains for not giving you credit too! I’ve been going back and forth between this thread and others I forgot you mentioned PSP first.
And RWA380: I agree about SANFan/ B- -!


It was a just an educated guess on my part.


Educated indeed & you obviously know the PNW demographic. Since I was a kid in the early 70's, lot of people were gone for 4 months or so to the "desert". I later found out that was mostly Palm Springs, where homes were inexpensive & the weather is fantastic, when it's not up here.

Most people had their car driven down by some relative who was flown home the day the owners arrived. This was done in reverse in the Spring & sparing the older folks who were the owners, the distasteful chore of driving for two days & having to stay at a motel or hotel, depending on how far you drove the first day.

Now lots of my friends own condos down there, as it's still an oasis for the retirees, it's become a bit of an unofficial gay mecca. I can recognize a few of the hotels in gay themed movies I have seen. I know people who rent homes by the month & split the costs over a couple of couples & most people fly, the drive is totally doable, but it's 2 moderate days, or one 20 hour schlep vs a 2 hour flight.The scenery is, well bleak & brown once you get out of the Mt Shasta wilderness area, or about half of the drive or a bit more.

Once I saw your educated guess, I just knew you were right & responded so by saying in reply 16 "I think whomever guessed PSP may be on to something, there sure are quite a few snowbirds that have second homes there." Good job with your level headed response Dave.

USAavdork, welcome to my respected users list or friends list as it's known today. Hope to see more posts.
Last edited by RWA380 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:24 am

flyoregon wrote:
I always felt like PDX-PAE was a weird route to do 4x daily. The only way it made sense was if the connection opportunities to east coast i.e. IAD, ATL, FLL, etc. were available, but they're not. Why would anyone want to connect from PAE to go to California when the E175 can do it fine and when PAE has n/s service to the popular CA/NV/AZ destinations.


Hawaii (2 year round, 2 seasonal) destinations, Seasonal Mexico (SJD, PVR), JFK, DCA, BOS, ORD, MCI, DAL, AUS, are some of the available connections, some longer than others. I expect PAE to be timed for banks out of PDX, timed - morning 8-11am bank, mid-day 11am - 3pm bank & an evening departure after Hawaii & Mexico arrivals into PDX.

I suspect there will be people that would rather fly PAE-PDX-OAK vs driving to SEA-TAC & going non-stop. But most would likely fly PAE-SFO & use BART. I surely would.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:32 am

RWA380 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
I always felt like PDX-PAE was a weird route to do 4x daily. The only way it made sense was if the connection opportunities to east coast i.e. IAD, ATL, FLL, etc. were available, but they're not. Why would anyone want to connect from PAE to go to California when the E175 can do it fine and when PAE has n/s service to the popular CA/NV/AZ destinations.


Hawaii (2 year round, 2 seasonal) destinations, Seasonal Mexico (SJD, PVR), JFK, DCA, BOS, ORD, MCI, DAL, AUS, are some of the available connections, some longer than others. I expect PAE to be timed for banks out of PDX, timed - morning 8-11am bank, mid-day 11am - 3pm bank & an evening departure after Hawaii & Mexico arrivals into PDX.

I suspect there will be people that would rather fly PAE-PDX-OAK vs driving to SEA-TAC & going non-stop. But most would likely fly PAE-SFO & use BART. I surely would.


You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:44 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
I always felt like PDX-PAE was a weird route to do 4x daily. The only way it made sense was if the connection opportunities to east coast i.e. IAD, ATL, FLL, etc. were available, but they're not. Why would anyone want to connect from PAE to go to California when the E175 can do it fine and when PAE has n/s service to the popular CA/NV/AZ destinations.


Hawaii (2 year round, 2 seasonal) destinations, Seasonal Mexico (SJD, PVR), JFK, DCA, BOS, ORD, MCI, DAL, AUS, are some of the available connections, some longer than others. I expect PAE to be timed for banks out of PDX, timed - morning 8-11am bank, mid-day 11am - 3pm bank & an evening departure after Hawaii & Mexico arrivals into PDX.

I suspect there will be people that would rather fly PAE-PDX-OAK vs driving to SEA-TAC & going non-stop. But most would likely fly PAE-SFO & use BART. I surely would.


You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.


Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:02 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hawaii (2 year round, 2 seasonal) destinations, Seasonal Mexico (SJD, PVR), JFK, DCA, BOS, ORD, MCI, DAL, AUS, are some of the available connections, some longer than others. I expect PAE to be timed for banks out of PDX, timed - morning 8-11am bank, mid-day 11am - 3pm bank & an evening departure after Hawaii & Mexico arrivals into PDX.

I suspect there will be people that would rather fly PAE-PDX-OAK vs driving to SEA-TAC & going non-stop. But most would likely fly PAE-SFO & use BART. I surely would.


You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.


Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:09 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.


Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


PAE was great. Off the plane, about a 50 foot walk to the curb, a neighbor was the only car sitting there waiting to pick me up.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:17 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.


Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


THIS - SEA is a miserable experience. The TSA lines are ridonkulous, the traffic is miserable, the airport in general is just okay. And what's up with the cabs that drive on the right side of traffic then cut everyone off at the very front of the line to get all the way over to the left - they slow traffic up considerably. The police could spend some time directing traffic there and it could make a huge difference.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:41 am

ASFlyer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


THIS - SEA is a miserable experience. The TSA lines are ridonkulous, the traffic is miserable, the airport in general is just okay. And what's up with the cabs that drive on the right side of traffic then cut everyone off at the very front of the line to get all the way over to the left - they slow traffic up considerably. The police could spend some time directing traffic there and it could make a huge difference.


I don't disagree with you. Get TSA Pre-Check or Global Entry and it will save you a lot of time. But if you're cheap, then I guess you'll have to suffer. But PAE is a LOT better, but destinations and connections are kind of limited, especially eastbound. But I'm not complaining about PAE.
 
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admanager
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:05 am

Pre-Check at SEA can be 15 minutes. Get CLEAR and it's never been more than a few minutes for me. But CLEAR closes at 10pm, as do most restaurants and bars.
How is the parking situation at PAE?
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:17 am

admanager wrote:
Pre-Check at SEA can be 15 minutes. Get CLEAR and it's never been more than a few minutes for me. But CLEAR closes at 10pm, as do most restaurants and bars.
How is the parking situation at PAE?


I have a NEXUS card so have Pre-Check. It’s never been more than a few minutes for me.

What is CLEAR?

I wouldn’t know about parking at PAE, other than it’s expensive. I live a few miles away and my neighbors and I take turns dropping each other off there. :)
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:33 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
What is CLEAR?


www.clearme.com

I just signed up a week ago and my first experience will be in a few hours at PHX; I'll report back on how it goes. Looks promising, especially since all the airports I go to regularly are in the program.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
USAirKid
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Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:49 am

ASFlyer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


THIS - SEA is a miserable experience. The TSA lines are ridonkulous, the traffic is miserable, the airport in general is just okay. And what's up with the cabs that drive on the right side of traffic then cut everyone off at the very front of the line to get all the way over to the left - they slow traffic up considerably. The police could spend some time directing traffic there and it could make a huge difference.


The problem with the taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers going from the right all the way to the left on the airport expressway is an issue of some poor(ish) road design, although I'm not how I'd fix it without spending lots of money. The issue is:
  • The Taxi, Lyft and Uber staging lots are on 160th next to the rental car garage. Google Maps
  • Taxis, Lyfts, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers access the third floor of the parking garage on a dedicated ramp off of Arrivals Dr. Streetview image to that ramp
  • The way to get between both of them is to go either via Air Cargo Rd or International Blvd, to the onramp from Air Cargo Rd, which is right before the airport expressway splits into Arrivals Dr and Departures Dr. The onramp drops taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers onto the right side of the road, although they need to get to the left most lane on the road. (for completeness: streetview image to the end of that onramp.)
  • To get onto the airport expressway from the staging lot without using the Air Cargo Rd onramp, requires either a backtrack to Des Moines Memorial Blvd, which is 5.1 miles, or going via Int'l Blvd, then entering the airport to use Airport Expressway North, to the loopback ramp, to get onto Airport Expressway South, that route is 4.2 miles. The direct route via Air Cargo Rd is 1.5 miles. Direct Route, Route via Des Moines Memorial Blvd, and Route via Int'l Blvd and Loopback.

Requiring Taxi, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers to take a longer route is a non-starter for us and is against the Port of Seattle's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Air Cargo Rd onramp is still needed for hotel shuttles, parking lot shuttles, and the like.

I've spent a fair bit of time daydreaming on how to rework the roads in that area to get rid of the right lane to left lane maneuver that the Taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offiste parking lot drivers need to do, and it would require building some bridges or a tunnel, which is probably not a good use of funds.

As for putting police on Airport Expressway to direct traffic there, I'm not sure that'd be safe. People are driving at 50, 60, and even 70 mph on Airport Expressway. (The speed limit for most of the road is 40 mph, and it lowers to 20 mph a few hundred feet before the split to Arrivals Rd and Departures Rd.) The backups you're looking at are fairly episodic, and last 40 to 60 minutes, then disappear.

I've never had to pick up a friend at the airport during one of those busy times, but I have a strategy I'd employ that nicely avoids tall of the mess on Airport Expressway, the overcrowded cell phone lot, and the crazy backups on Arrivals Dr, plus it doesn't require that you pay anyone any additional money. (I'm a bit tired, and feeling a bit poor at the moment, so if you're interested in it, I'll share it with you via PM for $5.)
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:26 am

What about BLI? No changes there?
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4935
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:59 am

USAirKid wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


THIS - SEA is a miserable experience. The TSA lines are ridonkulous, the traffic is miserable, the airport in general is just okay. And what's up with the cabs that drive on the right side of traffic then cut everyone off at the very front of the line to get all the way over to the left - they slow traffic up considerably. The police could spend some time directing traffic there and it could make a huge difference.


The problem with the taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers going from the right all the way to the left on the airport expressway is an issue of some poor(ish) road design, although I'm not how I'd fix it without spending lots of money. The issue is:
  • The Taxi, Lyft and Uber staging lots are on 160th next to the rental car garage. Google Maps
  • Taxis, Lyfts, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers access the third floor of the parking garage on a dedicated ramp off of Arrivals Dr. Streetview image to that ramp
  • The way to get between both of them is to go either via Air Cargo Rd or International Blvd, to the onramp from Air Cargo Rd, which is right before the airport expressway splits into Arrivals Dr and Departures Dr. The onramp drops taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers onto the right side of the road, although they need to get to the left most lane on the road. (for completeness: streetview image to the end of that onramp.)
  • To get onto the airport expressway from the staging lot without using the Air Cargo Rd onramp, requires either a backtrack to Des Moines Memorial Blvd, which is 5.1 miles, or going via Int'l Blvd, then entering the airport to use Airport Expressway North, to the loopback ramp, to get onto Airport Expressway South, that route is 4.2 miles. The direct route via Air Cargo Rd is 1.5 miles. Direct Route, Route via Des Moines Memorial Blvd, and Route via Int'l Blvd and Loopback.

Requiring Taxi, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers to take a longer route is a non-starter for us and is against the Port of Seattle's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Air Cargo Rd onramp is still needed for hotel shuttles, parking lot shuttles, and the like.

I've spent a fair bit of time daydreaming on how to rework the roads in that area to get rid of the right lane to left lane maneuver that the Taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offiste parking lot drivers need to do, and it would require building some bridges or a tunnel, which is probably not a good use of funds.

As for putting police on Airport Expressway to direct traffic there, I'm not sure that'd be safe. People are driving at 50, 60, and even 70 mph on Airport Expressway. (The speed limit for most of the road is 40 mph, and it lowers to 20 mph a few hundred feet before the split to Arrivals Rd and Departures Rd.) The backups you're looking at are fairly episodic, and last 40 to 60 minutes, then disappear.

I've never had to pick up a friend at the airport during one of those busy times, but I have a strategy I'd employ that nicely avoids tall of the mess on Airport Expressway, the overcrowded cell phone lot, and the crazy backups on Arrivals Dr, plus it doesn't require that you pay anyone any additional money. (I'm a bit tired, and feeling a bit poor at the moment, so if you're interested in it, I'll share it with you via PM for $5.)

To be honest the cab and especially Uber drivers are horrendous in terms of driving safely and lawfully. In the 3-way stop intersection next to my work (very close to the Uber lot) I've seen many, many accidents caused by aggressive and illegal driving by those drivers. Regularly running stop signs without even a hint of braking, following bumper to bumper, stacking up in the middle of intersections on red lights, etc. not to mention a general complete lack of courtesy.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:56 pm

HPRamper wrote:
To be honest the cab and especially Uber drivers are horrendous in terms of driving safely and lawfully. In the 3-way stop intersection next to my work (very close to the Uber lot) I've seen many, many accidents caused by aggressive and illegal driving by those drivers. Regularly running stop signs without even a hint of braking, following bumper to bumper, stacking up in the middle of intersections on red lights, etc. not to mention a general complete lack of courtesy.


Well, their respective corporate cultures cultivate this behavior. Not sure about taxi pay but rideshare drivers do not get paid while waiting or in transit to the pick up. Uber will start paying after a certain period of time getting to a pick up, Lyft does not. The pay for time is very small for rideshare too, most cities it is around 13 to 20 cents per minute. This can cause an hourly average rate to plummet at congested airports. Not an excuse for illegal or unsafe driving, but an explanation of their frenzied driving.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:56 am

Clear is a God send. However its true beauty is in coalition with PreCheck. Hopefully you have that - and you'll forever be grateful to the airport security Gods.

EA CO AS wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
What is CLEAR?


http://www.clearme.com

I just signed up a week ago and my first experience will be in a few hours at PHX; I'll report back on how it goes. Looks promising, especially since all the airports I go to regularly are in the program.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1225
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:28 am

Requiring Taxi, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers to take a longer route is a non-starter for us and is against the Port of Seattle's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions


Lol

What an unbelievable waste of effort and resources. :roll:
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:01 pm

n7371f wrote:
Clear is a God send. However its true beauty is in coalition with PreCheck. Hopefully you have that - and you'll forever be grateful to the airport security Gods.

EA CO AS wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
What is CLEAR?


http://www.clearme.com

I just signed up a week ago and my first experience will be in a few hours at PHX; I'll report back on how it goes. Looks promising, especially since all the airports I go to regularly are in the program.


So is Global Entry!
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2086
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:42 pm

SANFan wrote:
Maybe AS suspected PAE-PDX-PAE would be somewhat weak but they wanted to operate all 18 of their daily flights out of PAE from the beginning just to make sure nobody took any unused ones away? They also wanted to see how all the other routes did and would rework things at, for example, the end of the summer, as needed. Perhaps it was the same thinking with LAX although I didn't suspect 4 would be too many for the LA market.
bb



I think this is actually the most likely explanation. AS had a hunch, but no data on how PAE would do. So, load up on some safe bets at first, use all the flights to keep others out, and adjust after 6 months.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:37 pm

Gosh I bet those up in Juneau and much of Alaska are salivating at the thought of using an airport they can pop in and out of quickly such as PAE, as Washington state is such a large part of their social and resource chain.

Pop into PAE for a day or two. Reconnect with associates, family, and other business needs... Pop back to PAE and Southward to the Sunshine.

On the way back use SeaTac as one needs as there are so many more scheduling options to insure on is home in time for work and business. PAE has the ability to grant Alaskans a whole extra day when traveling southward.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
USAavdork
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:52 pm

RWA380: Than You for your kind comments. I appreciate it. I joined on here a year or two ago after being a avid reader. I am a airline dork at heart. My passion is people and Route Planning so it’s fun for me to figure out the “puzzles” and search for new routes or gaps in schedules!

I think this whole PAE startup might have in the slightest caught AS off guard at how well it’s doing. It’s going to be fun to watch and see if there are more “seasonal” adjustments or if any mainline equipment shows up. Congrats to PAE and AS!
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:47 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Hawaii (2 year round, 2 seasonal) destinations, Seasonal Mexico (SJD, PVR), JFK, DCA, BOS, ORD, MCI, DAL, AUS, are some of the available connections, some longer than others. I expect PAE to be timed for banks out of PDX, timed - morning 8-11am bank, mid-day 11am - 3pm bank & an evening departure after Hawaii & Mexico arrivals into PDX.

I suspect there will be people that would rather fly PAE-PDX-OAK vs driving to SEA-TAC & going non-stop. But most would likely fly PAE-SFO & use BART. I surely would.


You guys make SEA sound like a total disaster. I’ve seen much worse. The connection to OAK through PDX sucks! LOL.


Ever picked someone up at SEA, especially on a summer evening?

I do know someone who looked at PAE-PDX-OAK and said it was a four hour connection.

I would think SMF is a candidate for PAE service also.


As long as AS maintains their recession-era level of service to OAK from PDX (3x), connections will rarely be timed well. Pre-recession and pre-#mostwestcoast, they flew mainline up to 6x daily.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1686
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:39 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Gosh I bet those up in Juneau and much of Alaska are salivating at the thought of using an airport they can pop in and out of quickly such as PAE, as Washington state is such a large part of their social and resource chain.

Pop into PAE for a day or two. Reconnect with associates, family, and other business needs... Pop back to PAE and Southward to the Sunshine.

On the way back use SeaTac as one needs as there are so many more scheduling options to insure on is home in time for work and business. PAE has the ability to grant Alaskans a whole extra day when traveling southward.


Juneau is actually easy to get in and out of.. its the admin officer that has to play cop and keep traffic moving since everyone likes to park in from the airport. KTN and some of the others tend to be a bit harder :P (remember the "Bridge to Nowhere" scandal under Governor Palin -- although now the community wishes it had a bridge to the airport, like Sitka). But I think the community would respond well to a PAE flight in an E175 :)
xx
 
n7371f
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:15 am

Yes it is. Especially when arriving on DL at JFK, ATL.

wedgetail737 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Clear is a God send. However its true beauty is in coalition with PreCheck. Hopefully you have that - and you'll forever be grateful to the airport security Gods.

EA CO AS wrote:

http://www.clearme.com

I just signed up a week ago and my first experience will be in a few hours at PHX; I'll report back on how it goes. Looks promising, especially since all the airports I go to regularly are in the program.


So is Global Entry!
 
User avatar
SEAxSANxBOS
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:06 am

USAirKid wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

I loved to drive out their at 11:30pm, pouring down rain, traffic backed up down the freeway, people using the shoulder as a cell phone lot, cabs driving on the side of the road around people, etc. What a miserable experience it has turned into out there. PHX is a breeze in comparison.


THIS - SEA is a miserable experience. The TSA lines are ridonkulous, the traffic is miserable, the airport in general is just okay. And what's up with the cabs that drive on the right side of traffic then cut everyone off at the very front of the line to get all the way over to the left - they slow traffic up considerably. The police could spend some time directing traffic there and it could make a huge difference.


The problem with the taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers going from the right all the way to the left on the airport expressway is an issue of some poor(ish) road design, although I'm not how I'd fix it without spending lots of money. The issue is:
  • The Taxi, Lyft and Uber staging lots are on 160th next to the rental car garage. Google Maps
  • Taxis, Lyfts, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers access the third floor of the parking garage on a dedicated ramp off of Arrivals Dr. Streetview image to that ramp
  • The way to get between both of them is to go either via Air Cargo Rd or International Blvd, to the onramp from Air Cargo Rd, which is right before the airport expressway splits into Arrivals Dr and Departures Dr. The onramp drops taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers onto the right side of the road, although they need to get to the left most lane on the road. (for completeness: streetview image to the end of that onramp.)
  • To get onto the airport expressway from the staging lot without using the Air Cargo Rd onramp, requires either a backtrack to Des Moines Memorial Blvd, which is 5.1 miles, or going via Int'l Blvd, then entering the airport to use Airport Expressway North, to the loopback ramp, to get onto Airport Expressway South, that route is 4.2 miles. The direct route via Air Cargo Rd is 1.5 miles. Direct Route, Route via Des Moines Memorial Blvd, and Route via Int'l Blvd and Loopback.

Requiring Taxi, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offsite parking lot drivers to take a longer route is a non-starter for us and is against the Port of Seattle's goal of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Air Cargo Rd onramp is still needed for hotel shuttles, parking lot shuttles, and the like.

I've spent a fair bit of time daydreaming on how to rework the roads in that area to get rid of the right lane to left lane maneuver that the Taxis, Lyft, Uber, hotel, and offiste parking lot drivers need to do, and it would require building some bridges or a tunnel, which is probably not a good use of funds.

As for putting police on Airport Expressway to direct traffic there, I'm not sure that'd be safe. People are driving at 50, 60, and even 70 mph on Airport Expressway. (The speed limit for most of the road is 40 mph, and it lowers to 20 mph a few hundred feet before the split to Arrivals Rd and Departures Rd.) The backups you're looking at are fairly episodic, and last 40 to 60 minutes, then disappear.

I've never had to pick up a friend at the airport during one of those busy times, but I have a strategy I'd employ that nicely avoids tall of the mess on Airport Expressway, the overcrowded cell phone lot, and the crazy backups on Arrivals Dr, plus it doesn't require that you pay anyone any additional money. (I'm a bit tired, and feeling a bit poor at the moment, so if you're interested in it, I'll share it with you via PM for $5.)


Perhaps I'll ruin your money scheme. ;D Enter the parking garage and pick up on say the 3rd floor, etc, do it under 10 minutes and no charge. Just be in and out. The other is just tell them to walk down to the bus stop where the A Line picks up on 99 right outside the airport. Easy easy.
Does not reflect the views of Delta Air Lines

Favorite Airports: SEA, SAN, BOS, MSP, IND, CVG
 
USAirKid
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:36 am

SEAxSANxBOS wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

I've never had to pick up a friend at the airport during one of those busy times, but I have a strategy I'd employ that nicely avoids tall of the mess on Airport Expressway, the overcrowded cell phone lot, and the crazy backups on Arrivals Dr, plus it doesn't require that you pay anyone any additional money. (I'm a bit tired, and feeling a bit poor at the moment, so if you're interested in it, I'll share it with you via PM for $5.)


Perhaps I'll ruin your money scheme. ;D Enter the parking garage and pick up on say the 3rd floor, etc, do it under 10 minutes and no charge. Just be in and out. The other is just tell them to walk down to the bus stop where the A Line picks up on 99 right outside the airport. Easy easy.


Thats part, but not all of it. ;-) But picking up at near the bus stop is also a good strategy.
 
User avatar
SEAxSANxBOS
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:47 pm

USAirKid wrote:
SEAxSANxBOS wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

I've never had to pick up a friend at the airport during one of those busy times, but I have a strategy I'd employ that nicely avoids tall of the mess on Airport Expressway, the overcrowded cell phone lot, and the crazy backups on Arrivals Dr, plus it doesn't require that you pay anyone any additional money. (I'm a bit tired, and feeling a bit poor at the moment, so if you're interested in it, I'll share it with you via PM for $5.)


Perhaps I'll ruin your money scheme. ;D Enter the parking garage and pick up on say the 3rd floor, etc, do it under 10 minutes and no charge. Just be in and out. The other is just tell them to walk down to the bus stop where the A Line picks up on 99 right outside the airport. Easy easy.


Thats part, but not all of it. ;-) But picking up at near the bus stop is also a good strategy.


If one was feeling adventurous. They could take the train to Takwila or Angle Lake Sattions too. I don't see Fare Enforcement ever really checking those two stops.
Does not reflect the views of Delta Air Lines

Favorite Airports: SEA, SAN, BOS, MSP, IND, CVG
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 4985
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska to announce new Paine Field route this week, along with other changes (June 3rd, 2019)

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:52 pm

Sorry everyone for bringing up an update on the topic of the thread but as confirmed by today's OAG thread, AS has updated 4 of the PAE routes beginning in November. LAX and PDX are indeed reduced to 3x daily flights, and PHX and PSP gain the "lost" frequencies. No other PAE routes have seen major adjustments yet and there should be some changes coming (nor have any other network changes appeared yet on the Nov 5 schedule change.)

As expected by many, the early morning PDX-PAE and late night return are gone. Here' what the skeds now show effective Nov 5 thru March:

Effective 11/5/19 All DLY EMJs
PDX: 10:30am ... 6:10pm .. 10:00pm
PAE: 11:30am ... 7:10pm .. 10:59pm

PAE: 6:15am ...8:35am ... 7:25pm
PDX: 7:10 am...9:30am ... 8:20pm

Looks to me like a pretty well balanced schedule for PDX-connections out of Everett.

Feel free to continue discussing ride shares and pax pickups at SEA/TAC now... (?) Sorry to interrupt.

bb

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