VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:18 pm

Andy33 wrote:
...

On a related issue, the only reason Vueling has A319s in its fleet is because Florence airport can't take A320s or A321s due to short runway and terrain restrictions. Is the A221 and/or the A223 certified for Florence yet?


For the A220-100 and A220-300, Is it about certification at Florence or is it a landing performance question?
Can the aircraft land with meaningful landing weight at Florence in wet conditions?
 
hitchy81
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:33 pm

VV wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
...

On a related issue, the only reason Vueling has A319s in its fleet is because Florence airport can't take A320s or A321s due to short runway and terrain restrictions. Is the A221 and/or the A223 certified for Florence yet?


For the A220-100 and A220-300, Is it about certification at Florence or is it a landing performance question?
Can the aircraft land with meaningful landing weight at Florence in wet conditions?



Swiss has been operating the A220 to Florence for a while now.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:38 pm

[quote="TUGMASTER"]Sorry..... I’ve missed something here..
What exactly do BACF need an BCS1/3 at LCY for...?
The JFK will almost certainly stop when cross rail opens in 12 months or so.
The Ejets already fit well into LCY. And are capable of pretty much all BACF needs.
The BCS1 is a squeeze....

The Max is replacing Level/Vueling/BA LGW.
The Neo’s Are replacing the old 319/320’s

I just don’t see the need for IAG to buy the BCS1/3[/quote

Also forgot to mention when AA move there 4 JFK flights over to T5 at the end of the year, those people who need quick access to NYC via the soon to be opened crossrail will have a pretty much hourly service from a hand full of dedicated gates at
LHR T5B...
They’ll be no need for anything other than the E2.
And if BA were so happy and desperate to keep the LCY-JFK route, surely they would have said so by now...?

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth......
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:54 pm

hitchy81 wrote:
VV wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
...

On a related issue, the only reason Vueling has A319s in its fleet is because Florence airport can't take A320s or A321s due to short runway and terrain restrictions. Is the A221 and/or the A223 certified for Florence yet?


For the A220-100 and A220-300, Is it about certification at Florence or is it a landing performance question?
Can the aircraft land with meaningful landing weight at Florence in wet conditions?



Swiss has been operating the A220 to Florence for a while now.


Okay, I guess it is the A220-100 then.
 
senatorflyer
Posts: 323
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:17 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
Sorry..... I’ve missed something here..
What exactly do BACF need an BCS1/3 at LCY for...?
The JFK will almost certainly stop when cross rail opens in 12 months or so.
The Ejets already fit well into LCY. And are capable of pretty much all BACF needs.
The BCS1 is a squeeze....

The Max is replacing Level/Vueling/BA LGW.
The Neo’s Are replacing the old 319/320’s

I just don’t see the need for IAG to buy the BCS1/3[/quote

Also forgot to mention when AA move there 4 JFK flights over to T5 at the end of the year, those people who need quick access to NYC via the soon to be opened crossrail will have a pretty much hourly service from a hand full of dedicated gates at
LHR T5B...
They’ll be no need for anything other than the E2.
And if BA were so happy and desperate to keep the LCY-JFK route, surely they would have said so by now...?

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth......


Do you have a source for the AA move?
 
Jomar777
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:25 am

george77300 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly - a BACF order for either (E2 or A221 - A223 is completely off) will be a sole order for them. Very specific operations on a restricted airport (by size, park standards as well as BA Pilots Regulations).

This means that, hypotetically, you could see, for example an order for 26 E2190s for BACF followed by an order of A221s or A223s fro IAG (to be spread between all their airlines).

Specifically in regards to BACF, delivery schedule may play a lot here. Airbus is not shifting many A220s that quick and need to hamp up production. The E2, on the other hand, does not fly out of the shelves.

IAG has just recently placed an order for the MAX (even tough they are grounded) which will mean that both Iberia and BA, at the very least will cease to be Airbus only for their short/medium haul fleets. This is a significant loss for Airbus. This may make them (Airbus) more agressive pitching the A220 for BACF but may also signial that there's more apetite for IAG and BACF to tie up a better relationship with Boeing.

My bet is clearly for the E2 to go to Cityflier but for an IAG order - not long ahead - for the A220-300 for IB and BA towards replacing their A319s.

As for the A318s flying to LCY-JFK - I believe that this service is heading for the end rather than upgrade.


A number of incorrect statements in here:

- IB(and EI) is getting no MAX. Only Vueling/Level and BA at Gatwick.

- NO A220-300 for BA (probably not any of the group) because BA is containerised only at LHR. Same reasons MAXs won’t be at LHR for BA. They don’t want small aircraft.

- Upsizing at BA especially. A320neo/A321neo replacing A319/320. A320neo will become the new smallest type at BA and IB. No need or desire for smaller aircraft. IB has Air Nostrum for that.

- Not enough A220 size hates at LCY. Even expansion plans are not enough for BA operations. So if later they go A220 they will have to have some E-Jets and spilt. This is unlikely so I bet on the E2 eventually.


Thanks for your comments:

- Sorry on this one - I was sure BA was getting some MAX but thought that Vueling would continue on a Aribus only. That's why I considered IB might get them. Wrong on my side;
- Obviously LGW for BA is now MAX so no A220s there but, I see soooo many (moderators included...) betting on A220s on BA that I wondered if there would not be a chance despite the containerization issue (how did BBD miss this on the project???)
- I imagined that BA would consider something in between the A319 and A320 and that's where the A220-300 would fit in. I wonder if Airbus will not make pressure this eventually
- For a prospective order of 26 aircrafts, you might be right and the E2 will make the grade.
 
george77300
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:35 am

Jomar777 wrote:
george77300 wrote:
Jomar777 wrote:
Firstly - a BACF order for either (E2 or A221 - A223 is completely off) will be a sole order for them. Very specific operations on a restricted airport (by size, park standards as well as BA Pilots Regulations).

This means that, hypotetically, you could see, for example an order for 26 E2190s for BACF followed by an order of A221s or A223s fro IAG (to be spread between all their airlines).

Specifically in regards to BACF, delivery schedule may play a lot here. Airbus is not shifting many A220s that quick and need to hamp up production. The E2, on the other hand, does not fly out of the shelves.

IAG has just recently placed an order for the MAX (even tough they are grounded) which will mean that both Iberia and BA, at the very least will cease to be Airbus only for their short/medium haul fleets. This is a significant loss for Airbus. This may make them (Airbus) more agressive pitching the A220 for BACF but may also signial that there's more apetite for IAG and BACF to tie up a better relationship with Boeing.

My bet is clearly for the E2 to go to Cityflier but for an IAG order - not long ahead - for the A220-300 for IB and BA towards replacing their A319s.

As for the A318s flying to LCY-JFK - I believe that this service is heading for the end rather than upgrade.


A number of incorrect statements in here:

- IB(and EI) is getting no MAX. Only Vueling/Level and BA at Gatwick.

- NO A220-300 for BA (probably not any of the group) because BA is containerised only at LHR. Same reasons MAXs won’t be at LHR for BA. They don’t want small aircraft.

- Upsizing at BA especially. A320neo/A321neo replacing A319/320. A320neo will become the new smallest type at BA and IB. No need or desire for smaller aircraft. IB has Air Nostrum for that.

- Not enough A220 size hates at LCY. Even expansion plans are not enough for BA operations. So if later they go A220 they will have to have some E-Jets and spilt. This is unlikely so I bet on the E2 eventually.


Thanks for your comments:

- Sorry on this one - I was sure BA was getting some MAX but thought that Vueling would continue on a Aribus only. That's why I considered IB might get them. Wrong on my side;
- Obviously LGW for BA is now MAX so no A220s there but, I see soooo many (moderators included...) betting on A220s on BA that I wondered if there would not be a chance despite the containerization issue (how did BBD miss this on the project???)
- I imagined that BA would consider something in between the A319 and A320 and that's where the A220-300 would fit in. I wonder if Airbus will not make pressure this eventually
- For a prospective order of 26 aircrafts, you might be right and the E2 will make the grade.


Now worries at all. Maybe A220s for IB one day? I could see that. I just don’t see it happening at BA mainline for sure. As for CityFlyer there just isn’t the capability at LCY and they would HAVE to go split with E-Jets for their full timetable. BA for sure don’t want smaller than A320neo at LHR (and require containers). They just recently swapped more A320neos to A321neos. I don’t see the BA personally.

We’ll see I guess. But the MAXs are 100% at this time anyway for Level/ Vueling and BA LGW only. None for IB/EI/BA LHR. Obviously this could change but as IB/EI are all Airbus and relatively small compared to BA and also no containers capability for BA LHR I don’t see this changing.
 
VFRonTop
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:13 am

senatorflyer wrote:
[Do you have a source for the AA move?


It was mentioned by Rhett Workman, the AA Managing Director for LHR in a podcast back in December, as an aspiration.

The latest announced terminal moves are all shorthaul with Luxembourg (LUX) and Lyon (LYS) moving from T3 to T5, and Billund (BLL), Hanover (HAJ), and Zagreb (ZAG) moving from T5 to T3.

Moving AA (even just the JFK ops) to T5 would be quite an undertaking.
 
senatorflyer
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:45 am

VFRonTop wrote:
senatorflyer wrote:
[Do you have a source for the AA move?


It was mentioned by Rhett Workman, the AA Managing Director for LHR in a podcast back in December, as an aspiration.

The latest announced terminal moves are all shorthaul with Luxembourg (LUX) and Lyon (LYS) moving from T3 to T5, and Billund (BLL), Hanover (HAJ), and Zagreb (ZAG) moving from T5 to T3.

Moving AA (even just the JFK ops) to T5 would be quite an undertaking.


That’s what I thought, hence I asked for the source.
 
digitalcloud
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:20 am

Perhaps a possibility for Air Nostrum?
 
Beatyair
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:20 pm

Remember that LCY is expanding, more ramps, taxiways, and terminal. The A220 can also fly direct from LCY to JFK.
 
Beatyair
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:20 pm

Remember that LCY is expanding, more ramps, taxiways, and terminal. The A220 can also fly direct from LCY to JFK.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:38 pm

Beatyair wrote:
Remember that LCY is expanding, more ramps, taxiways, and terminal. The A220 can also fly direct from LCY to JFK.

Have a look at the details of the expansion.
https://www.londoncityairport.com/corpo ... dp-propose
and the current airport plan
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -07-19.pdf
In addition to the existing 4 parking stands (#21-24) capable of taking A221s (or A318s), the expansion adds another 7 stands this size. So at the absolute maximum, 11 A221s could be on the ground at once. But the airport has also stands #1-15, which are and will continue to be too small for A221s but capable of use by E190s or smaller planes. Right now at some times of day BA and Swiss (who already fly A221s into LCY) together have more than 11 planes on the ground at the same time. So if BACF was to replace their entire fleet of E170s/E190s with A221s, they'd have to reduce their timetable instead of gradually expanding. If they had a mixed fleet, all the pilots and cabin crews would have to be qualified on two dissimilar aircraft families.

Don't get hung up on the transatlantic flights. BA operates just 6 flights a week, 32 seats per plane. Once there were 12 flights a week, requiring 2 planes, but the demand simply wasn't there to fill them. In fact current BA management clearly don't rate the service very highly because instead of keeping the second plane as spare to ensure absolute reliability, they leased it to ACMI operator Titan instead. If the sole A318 left in the fleet goes tech or needs scheduled maintenance, the flights are cancelled altogether and passengers rebooked on LHR services instead.
General belief is that when the new Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) heavy rail link between East and West London becomes fully operational, making it much easier for passengers from east London and the financial district to reach Heathrow without multiple changes or getting caught in traffic, the almost hourly BA/AA timetable between LHR and JFK will seduce enough traffic away to kill the LCY service stone dead. A startup airline, Odyssey, ordered 10 C-Series and promised multiple transatlantic flights from LCY..There's absolutely no sign it will ever commence operations and Airbus will probably clean the A221 order book soon!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:57 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Beatyair wrote:
Remember that LCY is expanding, more ramps, taxiways, and terminal. The A220 can also fly direct from LCY to JFK.

Have a look at the details of the expansion.
https://www.londoncityairport.com/corpo ... dp-propose
and the current airport plan
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -07-19.pdf
In addition to the existing 4 parking stands (#21-24) capable of taking A221s (or A318s), the expansion adds another 7 stands this size. So at the absolute maximum, 11 A221s could be on the ground at once. But the airport has also stands #1-15, which are and will continue to be too small for A221s but capable of use by E190s or smaller planes. Right now at some times of day BA and Swiss (who already fly A221s into LCY) together have more than 11 planes on the ground at the same time. So if BACF was to replace their entire fleet of E170s/E190s with A221s, they'd have to reduce their timetable instead of gradually expanding. If they had a mixed fleet, all the pilots and cabin crews would have to be qualified on two dissimilar aircraft families.

Don't get hung up on the transatlantic flights. BA operates just 6 flights a week, 32 seats per plane. Once there were 12 flights a week, requiring 2 planes, but the demand simply wasn't there to fill them. In fact current BA management clearly don't rate the service very highly because instead of keeping the second plane as spare to ensure absolute reliability, they leased it to ACMI operator Titan instead. If the sole A318 left in the fleet goes tech or needs scheduled maintenance, the flights are cancelled altogether and passengers rebooked on LHR services instead.
General belief is that when the new Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) heavy rail link between East and West London becomes fully operational, making it much easier for passengers from east London and the financial district to reach Heathrow without multiple changes or getting caught in traffic, the almost hourly BA/AA timetable between LHR and JFK will seduce enough traffic away to kill the LCY service stone dead. A startup airline, Odyssey, ordered 10 C-Series and promised multiple transatlantic flights from LCY..There's absolutely no sign it will ever commence operations and Airbus will probably clean the A221 order book soon!

Facinating. Soon 11 gates for A220.
Leaving 14 for E-jets/MRJ

If BA won't fly TATL, then that is an opportunity for DL, B6, KH, or a new entrants.

I would expect with a far lower cost per flight, the TATL service will see an uptick.

All indications are that there will be far more long haul flying on the A321LR/xLR than there was on the 757 due to the lower cost per flight. While the quantity of flights will be limited, I fully expect to see 6 to 20 per day within 7 years.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:10 pm

A 3 abreast First, a 4 abreast Business in the staggered seating configuration, and a 4 abreast Economy seating aboard the E2 gives me more interest in the E2 lately.

That staggered seating of the E2 looks quite innovative and comfy. Has anyone or airline tried it out yet? Am not sure which airline is using it but a review sure would be nice.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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Aisak
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:33 pm

VV wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
...

On a related issue, the only reason Vueling has A319s in its fleet is because Florence airport can't take A320s or A321s due to short runway and terrain restrictions. Is the A221 and/or the A223 certified for Florence yet?


For the A220-100 and A220-300, Is it about certification at Florence or is it a landing performance question?
Can the aircraft land with meaningful landing weight at Florence in wet conditions?


Vueling also needs the A319 for EAS (San Sebastián) due to runway. IB won’t operate A319 there and Air Nostrum can’t operate the CRJs. It’s ATR72 to MAD and VY A319 to BCN. If it weren’t for the VY319 the EAS-BCN would still be flown by Air Nostrum’s ATRs under the IB regional brand.

digitalcloud wrote:
Perhaps a possibility for Air Nostrum?

IAG does not decide and does not purchase fleet for Air Nostrum. Air Nostrum an independent carrier (no shares in hands of IAG) running a franchise agreement for the operation of the Iberia Regional brand IB8xxx. Quite similar to the Sun air / comair operation but they are marketed under the British Airways brand instead of a regional/express/connect one.

They are into endless talks to “merge” with Irish cityjet but Air Nostrum is a strong CRJ operator. I don’t see it changing soon.
 
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Aisak
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:34 pm

Andy33 wrote:
Don't get hung up on the transatlantic flights. BA operates just 6 flights a week, 32 seats per plane. Once there were 12 flights a week, requiring 2 planes, but the demand simply wasn't there to fill them. In fact current BA management clearly don't rate the service very highly because instead of keeping the second plane as spare to ensure absolute reliability, they leased it to ACMI operator Titan instead. If the sole A318 left in the fleet goes tech or needs scheduled maintenance, the flights are cancelled altogether and passengers rebooked on LHR services instead.

The fact that helped put the last nails on the coffin for the second daily service (BA3/4) was the closure of the SNN pre-clearance facilities on afternoons. Suddenly the tech stop was just time-consuming, instead of killing two birds (refuel & CBP-clearance) with one stone (SNN stop).


Andy33 wrote:
General belief is that when the new Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) heavy rail link between East and West London becomes fully operational, making it much easier for passengers from east London and the financial district to reach Heathrow without multiple changes or getting caught in traffic, the almost hourly BA/AA timetable between LHR and JFK will seduce enough traffic away to kill the LCY service stone dead.

I do also believe Crossrail/Elisabeth line will have an impact on LCY but not specifically the SNN-JFK service. I don’t think the users of this services are the type of people you see on the tube...
These people prefer to use LCY with a stop en route, instead of the frequent LHR shuttle with all the lounges and amenities. I’m not saying it will last forever, but I don’t see the A318 population and tube population being the same.
On the other hand, when the ClubSuite (and the new FIRST) is fully deployed on the fleet servicing the JFK shuttle, I hope the A318 city club world follows suit or else...
 
Jomar777
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:55 am

lightsaber wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Beatyair wrote:
Remember that LCY is expanding, more ramps, taxiways, and terminal. The A220 can also fly direct from LCY to JFK.

Have a look at the details of the expansion.
https://www.londoncityairport.com/corpo ... dp-propose
and the current airport plan
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic ... -07-19.pdf
In addition to the existing 4 parking stands (#21-24) capable of taking A221s (or A318s), the expansion adds another 7 stands this size. So at the absolute maximum, 11 A221s could be on the ground at once. But the airport has also stands #1-15, which are and will continue to be too small for A221s but capable of use by E190s or smaller planes. Right now at some times of day BA and Swiss (who already fly A221s into LCY) together have more than 11 planes on the ground at the same time. So if BACF was to replace their entire fleet of E170s/E190s with A221s, they'd have to reduce their timetable instead of gradually expanding. If they had a mixed fleet, all the pilots and cabin crews would have to be qualified on two dissimilar aircraft families.

Don't get hung up on the transatlantic flights. BA operates just 6 flights a week, 32 seats per plane. Once there were 12 flights a week, requiring 2 planes, but the demand simply wasn't there to fill them. In fact current BA management clearly don't rate the service very highly because instead of keeping the second plane as spare to ensure absolute reliability, they leased it to ACMI operator Titan instead. If the sole A318 left in the fleet goes tech or needs scheduled maintenance, the flights are cancelled altogether and passengers rebooked on LHR services instead.
General belief is that when the new Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) heavy rail link between East and West London becomes fully operational, making it much easier for passengers from east London and the financial district to reach Heathrow without multiple changes or getting caught in traffic, the almost hourly BA/AA timetable between LHR and JFK will seduce enough traffic away to kill the LCY service stone dead. A startup airline, Odyssey, ordered 10 C-Series and promised multiple transatlantic flights from LCY..There's absolutely no sign it will ever commence operations and Airbus will probably clean the A221 order book soon!

Facinating. Soon 11 gates for A220.
Leaving 14 for E-jets/MRJ

If BA won't fly TATL, then that is an opportunity for DL, B6, KH, or a new entrants.

I would expect with a far lower cost per flight, the TATL service will see an uptick.

All indications are that there will be far more long haul flying on the A321LR/xLR than there was on the 757 due to the lower cost per flight. While the quantity of flights will be limited, I fully expect to see 6 to 20 per day within 7 years.

Lightsaber


There will not be 11 gates for A220s - there will be 11 additional gates to accommodate aircrafts up to that size. The A220 is not an A380 which needs exclusive gates (actually, A380 gates can accommodate other aircrafts).

There's no opportunity for running a small aircraft TATL at present even with SNN. BA's case to run an all business flight from LCY hinders on the fact that it is way too time consuming to go from the City to LHR (City means City of London - Financial Heart - not LCY). With Crossrail, this will go and the flight will go too and I am not even counting wiht the LHR Expansion which may still go on and on. If BA decided to replace that A318 with an A220, it would end up with an aircraft running half empty all the time.

A220-wise, i would see maybe either an increase ijn frequencies from present operators like Swiss or maybe new carriers operating it on profitable routes to/from Europe on a medium term. Nothing else.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:35 am

Aisak wrote:
I do also believe Crossrail/Elisabeth line will have an impact on LCY but not specifically the SNN-JFK service. I don’t think the users of this services are the type of people you see on the tube...
These people prefer to use LCY with a stop en route, instead of the frequent LHR shuttle with all the lounges and amenities. I’m not saying it will last forever, but I don’t see the A318 population and tube population being the same.
On the other hand, when the ClubSuite (and the new FIRST) is fully deployed on the fleet servicing the JFK shuttle, I hope the A318 city club world follows suit or else...

Are you a Londoner? Unless all the UK based passengers on LCY-JFK both live and work in the Canary Wharf area, they will inevitably use the tube or DLR or overground heavy rail to get between wherever they live and their workplaces. There isn't some social stigma to using public transport in London, everyone does it if it offers the fastest journey time.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:40 am

Jomar777 wrote:
There will not be 11 gates for A220s - there will be 11 additional gates to accommodate aircrafts up to that size. The A220 is not an A380 which needs exclusive gates (actually, A380 gates can accommodate other aircrafts).
.

It's not even that many. There are 19 aircraft parking stands at LCY today, 4 of which are A221 capable. After the expansion, this goes all the way up to 26 aircraft parking stands, 11 of which will be A221 capable. But all 26 of them with be usable by smaller aircraft. Not all parking stands are at gates, either.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:28 am

With regard to AA moving to T5B,I'm unable to say my source.
but its happening. By the end of the year if possible.
 
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flyingphil
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:10 pm

I don't think BA will be in a hurry to choose between the Embraer and the A220

And I don't see why Crossrail will make any difference to LCY.

LCY is all set up for the bankers and business crowd from the City and Canary Wharf, there are Stock prices displayed in the lounge and internet everywhere,
If you work in the City or Canary Wharf you can get there easily by the Docklands Light railway in 30 minutes... and be sitting on the plane 30 minutes later... and yes, you do see all sorts on the tube and DLR in London.. its the fastest way to get around.

The LCY - JFK is a niche product with few seats but BA seem to persevere with it .. so I assume it must be keeping some of their premium customers happy.
The return ride from JFK to LCY arrives early in the morning - so you can step out of the plane and be out of the airport in 15 minutes or so..

LHR is very efficient, but it is huge.. you feel like you have walked a mile by the time you have got to the gate. Crossrail will be great when it starts operating, but it is still quite an long journey with plenty of stops from the City/Canary Wharf to LHR.

As for ODYSSEY AIRLINES LTD and their plans for A220's out of LCY http://www.flyody.com/ I think all the money they raised by crowdfunding has gone down the plughole .. having looked at their last accounts. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:34 pm

This transatlantic flight from LCY may have been "successful" (or not), but I think it's not very profitable whichever way you doin it.
 
mutu
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:44 pm

flyingphil wrote:
I don't think BA will be in a hurry to choose between the Embraer and the A220

And I don't see why Crossrail will make any difference to LCY.

LCY is all set up for the bankers and business crowd from the City and Canary Wharf, there are Stock prices displayed in the lounge and internet everywhere,
If you work in the City or Canary Wharf you can get there easily by the Docklands Light railway in 30 minutes... and be sitting on the plane 30 minutes later... and yes, you do see all sorts on the tube and DLR in London.. its the fastest way to get around.

The LCY - JFK is a niche product with few seats but BA seem to persevere with it .. so I assume it must be keeping some of their premium customers happy.
The return ride from JFK to LCY arrives early in the morning - so you can step out of the plane and be out of the airport in 15 minutes or so..



It is worth noting JFK-LCY has much stronger loads (or certainly did historically) than LCY-JFK. Primarily because going eastbound non-stop and landing directly into Canary Wharf IS a real time saver, Crossrail or no Crossrail.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:50 pm

VV wrote:
This transatlantic flight from LCY may have been "successful" (or not), but I think it's not very profitable whichever way you doin it.


BA doesn't stick with unprofitable routes. Look at Chengdu, Kiev and St. Petersburg. BA isn't scared to drop a route once it loses money. That's why the route network in Africa is so small. They wouldn't stick with this route if it was loss making or not sufficiently pulling its weight.
 
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mfranjic
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:52 pm


flyingphil wrote:
... LCY is all set up for the bankers and business crowd from the City and Canary Wharf, there are Stock prices displayed in the lounge and internet everywhere,
If you work in the City or Canary Wharf you can get there easily by the Docklands Light railway in 30 minutes... and be sitting on the plane 30 minutes later... and yes, you do see all sorts on the tube and DLR in London.. its the fastest way to get around.

The LCY - JFK is a niche product with few seats but BA seem to persevere with it .. so I assume it must be keeping some of their premium customers happy ...


In March 2017 Bombardier Aviation conducted steep 5,5˚ approach landings tests at London City Airport ( LCY ), making it the largest airplane to land there. Bombardier Aviation announced that the Bombardier.C Series CS100 ( BD-500-1A10 ) aircraft (MTOW: 60.781 kg / 134.000 lb) received Transport Canada and EASA steep approach certification in April 2017.
…...
The SWISS’ aircraft C Series CS100; MSN 50010, reg. HB-JBA, test reg. C-FPAI, with the cabin configuration CY125 and powered by two Image..PW1524G, ‘2,5’-shaft, high-bypass, geared, turbofan engine (fan diameter: 1.854,2 mm / 73,0 in; BPR: 12,0:1; gear ratio: 3,0625:1; eng. architecture: 1F-]G[-3LPC–8HPC〧2HPT–3LPT), OPR: 50,0:1, each rated at 108,54 kN / 11.068 kgf / 24.400 lbf, completed its first revenue flight to London City Airport on 08. Aug. 2017 from Zurich, replacing the British Aerospace.AVRO 146-RJ100, short-haul regional airliner, in CY97 cabin configuration, powered by four Lycoming LF 507/1F, ’2,5’-shaft, high-bypass, geared, turbofan engine (fan diameter: 1.022,3 mm / 40,25 in; BPR: 5,7:1; gear ratio: 2,3:1; eng. architecture: 1F-]G[-2LPC–(7+1r)HPC2HPT–2LPT), OPR: 13,8:1, each rated at 31,14 kN / 3.175 kgf / 7.000 lbf. The last flight of the SWISSAVRO 146-RJ100 aircraft to LCY happened on 14. Aug. 2017.
…...
Image
…...
London City Airport (LCY / EGLC), an international airport in London, England, located in the Royal Docks in the London Borough of Newham, is one of the easiest and most accessible airports in London, owing to its location of just 9,5 km / 6 mi east of City of London and 4,8 km / 3 mi from Canary Wharf, two centres of London’s financial industry and a major users of the airport. It is well-connected to the London Underground (‘The Tube’) network and it has its own stop on the Docklands Light Railway (DLR), which takes you to ‘The Tube’ interchange stations such as Canning Town, Stratford and Bank.
……
Recognised as the most punctual airport in the UK, London City Airport ( LCY ) has received consent to extend its aviation capacity under a £344 m ($451 m) expansion programme. The expansion will increase the annual flight movements to 111.000 a year, from the current capacity of 70.000.
The expansion programme, to be completed by 2023, will provide LCY with additional short-haul aviation capacity, while doubling its economic impact to £1,5 bn per annum. It will also generate 1.600 new jobs and 500 construction jobs while delivering a world-class international gateway to London.
The proposed airport development plan emphasises on maximising the use of the existing infrastructure. It aims to achieve the permitted flight movement without constructing a new runway or upgrading the existing runway.
The expansion covers an area of 60,1 ha and includes major extension to the existing terminal, including the construction of a new passenger pier. Airfield improvements include the construction of seven aircraft parking stands and taxi lane extension. A new dockside design will constitute a multi-modal entrance forecourt in front of the terminal building, a hotel and parking facilities.
Seven new aircraft parking stands will be built towards the east of the existing parking stands whereas four current stands will be upgraded. To enable their construction, the current passenger pier will be extended towards east.
A parallel taxiway along the runway will also be extended to allow aircraft to land-on and take-off from the runway quickly. A landside pontoon will also be constructed at the eastern end of the new parking stands for the emergency services.

...Image
...A satellite view of the London City Airport (click on the image for a larger view)

Image
West India Docks during the London 2012 Summer Olympics (click on the image for a larger view)

...Image
……
A director of the London City Airport said he hopes the airport will also get certified over the next few years with the passenger plane of the type Image.A220-300, the wings of which are made in east Belfast by Bombardier, for flights using the airport. The east London airport already uses the smaller Airbus A220-100, originally developed by Bombardier Aviation as the C Series, for Swiss International Airlines’ (SWISS) flights to Zurich and Geneva.
……
Image
……
The steep approach of the LCY airport and 1.319 m / 4.327 ft LDA (Landing Distance Available) represents a serious challenge for the air-traffic operations, but at least as much as its short runway, the limiting factors are obstacle clearance and a downwind take-offs. The winds are generally from the east, favoring RWY 09 which has some restrictive obstacles, but the downwind on the RWY 27 is just favorable. Otherwise, the usable T/O distance for 27 is 1.385 m, longer than that of RWY 09 due to shorter starter extension on 09.
……
...Before the SWISS have started the operations to LCY with their Image.A220-100s ( C Series CS100 ), the largest aircraft certified for the operation on LCY airport was British AirwaysImage.Airbus A318, powered by two Image.CFM56-5B9/P, twin-shaft, high-bypass, turbofan engines (fan diameter: 1.734,8 mm / 68,3 in; BPR: 5,9:1; engine architecture: 1F+4LPC–9HPC1HPT–4LPT), OPR: 32,6:1, rated at 103,64 kN / 10.568 kgf / 23.300 lbf. In March 2006, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) certified a modified control software enhancement to the Airbus A318, designed to allow the aircraft to perform steep approaches. The aircraft is the largest commercial aircraft certified by EASA for the steep approach operations. In 1992 LCY had the runway extended to 1.508 m / 4.948 ft, which does allow the A318 to operate successfully from the airport. The software modifies the control laws of the aircraft when the steep approach function is selected by the crew, by automatically deploying some of the spoiler panels to provide additional drag when the aircraft is in the landing configuration. It also provides alternative aural alerts to the crew and modifies spoiler deployment automatically below 37 m / 120 ft on landing. The A318 steep approach procedure allows the aircraft to perform approaches at descent angles of up to 5,5°, as opposed to the standard 3° for a normal approach.

...A test flight was conducted in May 2006 to prove the aircraft’s steep approach and short-field runway performance by landing at London City Airport, where such steep approaches are required. The test flight also confirmed the aircraft’s compatibility with the limited manoeuvring and parking space at that airport. Subsequently, in August 2009 Airbus delivered the first Airbus A318 with steep approach capability to British Airways, which began operating the route the following month, eventually having two ( G-EUNA and G-EUNB ) such aircraft capable for the flights between London City Airport and John F. Kennedy International Airport ( JFK ) in New York. On the westbound leg from London, a stopover is necessary for the refueling, which occurs at Shannon Airport ( SNN ), Ireland, because the weight restrictions are necessary in order to take off within the existing short runway length of the London City Airport. On the eastbound leg from New York this limitation is not present and the aircraft can take all the fuel needed for the transatlantic route to London. As of November 2017, only one (reg. G-EUNA) aircraft was serving the route, operated in a C32, all-business-class configuration…

Image

Mario
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:10 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
VV wrote:
This transatlantic flight from LCY may have been "successful" (or not), but I think it's not very profitable whichever way you doin it.


BA doesn't stick with unprofitable routes. Look at Chengdu, Kiev and St. Petersburg. BA isn't scared to drop a route once it loses money. That's why the route network in Africa is so small. They wouldn't stick with this route if it was loss making or not sufficiently pulling its weight.


Are they still flying LCY-JFK with their A318?
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:12 pm

I do not think A220-300 will ever operate from LCY.
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:14 pm

The obsession on LCY and especially trans-Atlantic flights from LCY amazes me a lot.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:14 pm

VV wrote:
I do not think A220-300 will ever operate from LCY.

How many times will you repeat that? On every single thread that involves the A220 and/or LCY???
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:04 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
VV wrote:
I do not think A220-300 will ever operate from LCY.

How many times will you repeat that? On every single thread that involves the A220 and/or LCY???


Yes, on every single thread that mentions A220-300 would operate from LCY.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:28 pm

VV wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
VV wrote:
This transatlantic flight from LCY may have been "successful" (or not), but I think it's not very profitable whichever way you doin it.


BA doesn't stick with unprofitable routes. Look at Chengdu, Kiev and St. Petersburg. BA isn't scared to drop a route once it loses money. That's why the route network in Africa is so small. They wouldn't stick with this route if it was loss making or not sufficiently pulling its weight.


Are they still flying LCY-JFK with their A318?

Yes but the frequency is half what it was to begin with. Operates 6 times a week now, once it was 12 flights a week. This year, as in previous years, it is suspended for almost all of August. The solitary A318 in the fleet gets planned maintenance and in any case business demand is reduced in high summer.
 
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:32 pm

Andy33 wrote:
VV wrote:
Are they still flying LCY-JFK with their A318?

Yes but the frequency is half what it was to begin with. Operates 6 times a week now, once it was 12 flights a week. This year, as in previous years, it is suspended for almost all of August. The solitary A318 in the fleet gets planned maintenance and in any case business demand is reduced in high summer.


I thought they had 2 A318s.

Didn't they put the LCY-JFK operations under a subsidiary company, although passengers can still amass miles in their BA account?
I may be mistaken.
 
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flyingphil
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:48 pm

VV wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
VV wrote:
Are they still flying LCY-JFK with their A318?

Yes but the frequency is half what it was to begin with. Operates 6 times a week now, once it was 12 flights a week. This year, as in previous years, it is suspended for almost all of August. The solitary A318 in the fleet gets planned maintenance and in any case business demand is reduced in high summer.


I thought they had 2 A318s.

Didn't they put the LCY-JFK operations under a subsidiary company, although passengers can still amass miles in their BA account?
I may be mistaken.

------------
They sold G-EUNB to Titan Airlines ..it is based at Stansted I believe, seen it used for football clubs etc
The flights are operated by BA mainline crews from Gatwick.
Another issue is that LCY is prone to fog and low visibility in the winter as it is surrounded by water. . G-EUNA sometimes has to divert to Gatwick.
They must have some loyal premium customers that keep it going.. it uses the old Concorde flight numbers too BA1 and BA2
 
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:49 pm

VV wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
VV wrote:
Are they still flying LCY-JFK with their A318?

Yes but the frequency is half what it was to begin with. Operates 6 times a week now, once it was 12 flights a week. This year, as in previous years, it is suspended for almost all of August. The solitary A318 in the fleet gets planned maintenance and in any case business demand is reduced in high summer.


I thought they had 2 A318s.

Didn't they put the LCY-JFK operations under a subsidiary company, although passengers can still amass miles in their BA account?
I may be mistaken.

There were two A318s originally. In 2017 BA halved the frequency on the LCY-JFK route and leased the second A318 G-EUNB to the ACMI operator Titan Airways. They still actually own it but it hasn't flown for them in two years.
There was a plan to put the JFK-LCY operations under a separate subsidiary as there were seen to be tax advantages in doing things that way. It never actually happened though as the tax laws changed before the process was completed, and now the extra administrative costs of having separate company accounts outweigh any possible savings. In fact the flight has always operated on the BA mainline certificate using BA mainline crews - pilots from the general A320-qualified London-based pool (a small amount of extra training is required due to the steep glideslope at LCY) and cabin crew from the LGW pool.
 
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:50 pm

VV wrote:
[Didn't they put the LCY-JFK operations under a subsidiary company, although passengers can still amass miles in their BA account?
I may be mistaken.


Yes, it is/was 'British Airways Ltd' as per this article

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ry-372970/
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:30 pm

I don't get this story about BA's A318 operation at LCY.

Can somebody please write a clear summary for us? What's the situation today?

Without irritating colors please.
 
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flyingphil
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:56 pm

VV wrote:
I don't get this story about BA's A318 operation at LCY.

Can somebody please write a clear summary for us? What's the situation today?

Without irritating colors please.

——-
So BA brought x 2 Airbus A318s that were modified for the steep approach into the short runway at London City.
City Airport is about 30 minutes away by Light Railway from the City of London and Canary Wharf which is Londons financial district.
The USP is that the airport is tiny compared with Heathrow so you can breeze through it in double quick time.
Due to the short runway the A318 cant fly LCY - JFK direct, it makes a fuel stop in Shannon, but while it does that the passengers clear US customs so they arrive at JFK as a domestic flight.
The JFK - LCY is non stop so it arrives in the early morning so the Bankers can do a full days work after a short journey to their offices.
There were two flights originally but now down to one a day.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... ondon-city
———-
 
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:09 pm

frigatebird wrote:
The article mentions the E2-190, but not which A220 variant. Is the -300 suitable for LCY ops?

This battle will be hard fought. The E2 should have an advantage with Citiflyer already operating E-jets. Will be interesting to see how much Airbus can discount the A220.

My bet is the E2...
EMB needs E2 orders more than Airbus needs A220 orders for an almost full book. Discounts...
 
Bhoy
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:32 am

flyingphil wrote:
VV wrote:
I don't get this story about BA's A318 operation at LCY.

Can somebody please write a clear summary for us? What's the situation today?

Without irritating colors please.

——-
So BA brought x 2 Airbus A318s that were modified for the steep approach into the short runway at London City.
City Airport is about 30 minutes away by Light Railway from the City of London and Canary Wharf which is Londons financial district.
The USP is that the airport is tiny compared with Heathrow so you can breeze through it in double quick time.
Due to the short runway the A318 cant fly LCY - JFK direct, it makes a fuel stop in Shannon, but while it does that the passengers clear US customs so they arrive at JFK as a domestic flight.
The JFK - LCY is non stop so it arrives in the early morning so the Bankers can do a full days work after a short journey to their offices.
There were two flights originally but now down to one a day.
https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/in ... ondon-city
———-

Just to add, the second daily flight was cancelled when SNN's CBP Pre-Clearance reduced their opening hours, meaning that the second flight wouldn't be pre-cleared, so the USP of arriving as a 'domestic' US arrival at JFK was gone. The time for the fuel stop (and slower cruising speed of the 318 against a Widebody) negated the time advantage of using the closer LCY rather than LHR, so that flight was cancelled.

As they have no use for it themselves, BA have placed the second A318 with Titan Airways, an ACMI operator (BA are still the owners) who subleases it out.

The direct flight doesn't operate in August as sales are at a seasonal low, so BA uses the month for scheduled Maintenance on the one frame they still operate.
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:41 am

Thank you for the explanation about BA's transatlantic operation from LCY.

It doesn't seem to be a very compelling one.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:55 am

seansasLCY wrote:
tomkell92 wrote:
I don't give this article any credibility whatsoever.

Firstly, BACF have just added another E190 to the fleet (G-LCAA) and there's 3 more on the way - all ex-China Southern.
The current plan is to ditch the E170's when their leases expire and keep building up the E190's. There's talk of the leases being renewed / extended for most of their E190's.

Furthermore, there was a demonstration flight a few months ago at MAN where Embraer brought the "profit hunter" E190-E2 over and took BA out for a spin around the Lake District. Not seen Bombardier / Airbus do anything like that yet.

Also, if they went for the A220, it would have to be the A220-100 - BA mainline have a scope clause for BACF that they can't have more than 100 seats. This may be extended slightly to accommodate the A220-100, but it certainly won't be extended as to accommodate the A220-300.

So, for me, I highly doubt a decision is "months" away, I think that needs correcting to "years" away, but we'll just have to wait and see.


Its based on an interview with Willy Walsh so there must be something behind it. Secondly, BA have checked out the A220. Airbus have used one of the Swiss ones at LCY to show potential customers and done a short flight in it.


WW isn't getting any younger.
BA have been racking up weird and imo poor decisions lately. They are operating like an airline on its last straws where they should be thriving and showing the world that they are a powerhouse to be reckoned with.
The data breach fine, the high profile MAX LOI at a time that the EU is trying to make life tough on them, while every other airline is trying to distantiate themselves from the aircraft, and not even Ryanair made a move.

Perhaps new leadership could help IAG fulfill its potential instead of the never-ending downgrades of service.

Do they need either of the E2 or A220?
I doubt it, imo they see other airlines involved in such RFP's and somehow they must be feeling an urge to do the same.
IAG need to start rationalising their group fleet to increase efficiency. Right now they are running around like they don't know what to do next.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:53 am

It really depends on what BA/IAG is after....If this RFP is soley for CityFlyer then the choice is rather clear, theE190 E2 is the right airplane (maybe even with some E175 E2s)...however, if this RFP is looked at as a joint E190 & A319 replacement then the choice would be easily the A220
 
mutu
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:08 am

VV wrote:
Thank you for the explanation about BA's transatlantic operation from LCY.

It doesn't seem to be a very compelling one.


A bit more background: The whole concept was about convenience for 2 (?) major corporate contract accounts based in Canary Wharf. It wasn't necessarily adding any growth and in the main cannibalised a small amount of the ex LHR J traffic. But that provided more J capacity (albeit modest) from a congested LHR. So was it profitable? Who really knows. But its overall contribution to the LON/NYC segment for BA is indeed arguably positive.

For a long while BA offered mileage and TP rewards equivalent to a First flight ex LHR, which resulted in a decent number of leisure travellers using the service for the added rewards. This benefit was canned a while back and now its a J reward flight. But the flight still picks up a decent number of aviation nuts, trying it out as it is rather unique.

Given the limitations of any frame, and of course LCY itself, there was an unavoidable refuelling stop in SNN eastbound at which pre clearance was undertaken, thus you arrived into JFK as a domestic passenger. Most pax had large hand baggage only and hence the plane to taxi time saved at JFK made up for the SNN stop.

On the return it is non-stop, and Sunday night departures ex JFK are regularly full as it provides a real convenience.

The dropping of pre clearance facility for late afternoons onwards by US authorities made the later flight less attractive commercially - indeed given the longer flight time AND the need to then join CBP queues at JFK on arrival, many passengers using the service saw no benefit over using the more frequent LHR flights available late afternoon and through the evening. So demand for this flight dropped off noticeably and it was canned.

The service was adapted to the flight - starters served on the LCY-SNN leg with main course orders taken.
After departing SNN, main course service commenced.
Ipads were provided for those who wanted IFE.
On the westbound thee was a breakfast option onboard or the choice of a "breakfast to go"
My experiences of this flight: on board service superior to LHR and on a lightly loaded eastbound it really is a very comfortable way to travel. Catering was far superior to ex LHR (although again with Do&Co taking on the LHR longhaul catering, this differentiation has largely gone.
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:22 pm

I have just checked the flights to and from JFK. During the full year 2018, there were only 118 return flights from LCY.

While I agree it could be a "convenience" flight for some people, I do not believe the operation is very profitable.

I then went a little bit further in my "research" using OAG analyzer.

Excepted JFK with only 118 flights (return) in 2018, almost all other flights are in Europe.
Numbers of flights in 2018 (return)

AMS: 2,163
DUB: 1,915
EDI: 1,822
ZRH: 1,542
LIN: 1,456
FRA: 1,020
LUX: 892
BHD: 876
GLA: 862
DUS: 851
RTM: 769
GVA: 646 and so on.

Basically I am saying that this LCY-JFK thing is overblown.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ABZ-LCY%0D ... S=bm&DU=nm
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:22 pm

deleted. duplicate.
 
fcogafa
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:29 pm

I seem to recall hearing that some seats are 'Block booked' by the big banks so BA get the money if the seats are filled or not
 
marcogr12
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:42 pm

Why couldnt BA use the 2nd A318 on its LHR routes interchangeably with the rest of the Airbuses, in a normal config like AF does, deployed on winter routes with lighter loads or on thin routes?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
CRJ900
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:54 pm

The E190-E2 entered commercial service with Widerøe in April 2018. 15 months later only 5 aircraft are in service, four with Widerøe and one with Air Astana - that must be even worse than the CS100 /300 entry into service...

Widerøe is very pleased with the E2 - it can fly nearly five hours nonstop with 114 passengers and their bags, which they do daily this summer with all the charter contracts Widerøe has accepted, so BA should get some good range with 98 seats from LCY.

BA CityFlyer also operates leisure flights with their E-jets from other airports on the weekend, and if this is a growing market, they may want aircraft with more seats, like 106 seats at 30 inch pitch on the E190-E2 or 125 seats at 30 inch pitch on the A220-100. Capacity may have to be restricted on some flights departing LCY but can go full from other longer runways to minimise economic loss. They'll have to pay the pilots a bit more but revenue will be higher so that should be bearable.

If BA go for the A220-100, they can have one or two in JFK-config and the rest with 125 seats, pilots and cabin crew can fly both configs. The A220-300 can be a nice replacement for A319 if BA want a 150-seat aircraft in a few years.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
VV
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Re: IAG deciding between A220 and Embraer E2 for BA Cityflyer

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:06 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
The E190-E2 entered commercial service with Widerøe in April 2018. 15 months later only 5 aircraft are in service, four with Widerøe and one with Air Astana - that must be even worse than the CS100 /300 entry into service...
....


The HUGE difference between the C Séries and E190-E2 is that Embraer is still delivering the E190. It is of prime importance to protect the value of the E190 (E1).
The C Series is not a derivative.

There might be some modifications that need to be implemented on the E2, just like the case for the C Séries. Embraer may take the time to implement the modifications before ramping up the production.

Again, they are still delivering the E1. There's much less urgency to deliver E2 than there is for the C Series.

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