Thibault973
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:09 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


Thank god they don’t do that in France. I buy plane tickets for my grand parents and my little sister all the time ! Would that mean that they’d all get denied boarding if they didn’t carry my credit card with them while travelling. Non sense
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:31 pm

Never had to show my cc in the US or several trips abroad. Also as a former agent for an American Airline, I was never prompted to ask for the card the ticket was purchased on. I DID have a couple of instances where I typed in the check-in code and it didn’t work and the phone at my station immediately rang and someone asked for identity-verifying information(DOB, general appearance) and then I was told to proceed checking the passenger in
Lrockeagle
14 years ago

I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
blandy62
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:34 pm

Sometimes airlines asked for the card. Few weeks ago flying BKK-CCU on SpiceJet. Was asked for the card but it was replaced by the bAnk after I booked. So had to pay the price of the ticket in cash at check in and they refunded me the original fare to my credit card.
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:42 pm

Even in the Schengen area there are exceptions. I flew into OSL as a Schengen arrival and there were announcements that anyone making domestic connections within Norway had to collect their bags and clear customs in OSL before rechecking their bags. I suspect the same is true in Sweden, which I believe is another country that separates domestic from Schengen.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:45 pm

vhqpa wrote:
Even in the Schengen area there are exceptions. I flew into OSL as a Schengen arrival and there were announcements that anyone making domestic connections within Norway had to collect their bags and clear customs in OSL before rechecking their bags. I suspect the same is true in Sweden, which I believe is another country that separates domestic from Schengen.


Norway is a part of Schengen treaty, but not an EU member. So they can do it. I doubt Sweden would do it, as it would be a violation of EU rules.
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acjbbj
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:59 pm

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by STUPIDITY.
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AtomicGarden
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:24 am

AC should check their procedures and be more proactive. In my company when we detect a fraud, the pax is automatically added to the no fly list, sometimes unless they pays in person if they are lucky. This means fraud can happen, but only once (unless the crook changes his/her name enough not to be automatically detected)

With that said, this woman is probably in deep s**t; doesn't matter if she actually bought the tickets from someone else. To the company and I bet the law, she is no victim.
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Adipocere
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:30 am

What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?
 
alfa164
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:34 am

AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.


In you case, you were probably flying on to another country.

In BoeingGuy's example, she landed in Panama City and was connecting to another airport in Panama. In those cases, you (almost!) always have to clear Customs and Immigration at your entry into the country.

MartijnNL wrote:
Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


The USA requires everyone to go through Customs and Immigration because there are no US airports with secure transit areas. Most foreign hubs have transit "lounges", so nobody needs to officially enter the country in those locales.
Last edited by alfa164 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AWACSooner
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:36 am


Korean Air still requires this, unless the purchaser uses Verified by Visa or Mastercard Securecode.
If they did not use such features, go to the airport and not have the physical credit card, they will be denied check-in. (Or they need to re-pay the amount with the physical credit card they have at the moment.)

Yep...had this happen to me in HKG last summer and was dumbfounded they still did this.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:01 am

AC should be thanking this passenger not banning her. At least she didn't open an emergency exit or demand that an agent kneel down to her.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:39 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Even in the Schengen area there are exceptions. I flew into OSL as a Schengen arrival and there were announcements that anyone making domestic connections within Norway had to collect their bags and clear customs in OSL before rechecking their bags. I suspect the same is true in Sweden, which I believe is another country that separates domestic from Schengen.


Norway is a part of Schengen treaty, but not an EU member. So they can do it. I doubt Sweden would do it, as it would be a violation of EU rules.

You go through customs (and passport control, of course) at the first point of entry to Sweden, then re-check your bags onto your domestic flight. At least at ARN. I guess it works the same way at GOT.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:45 am

9w748capt wrote:
AC should be thanking this passenger not banning her. At least she didn't open an emergency exit or demand that an agent kneel down to her.

Completely out of contest. And moronic on top of that...
 
GoSharks
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:07 am

Adipocere wrote:
What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?

I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?
 
GoSharks
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:07 am

AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

If you’re doing a international to domestic connection in Japan, you have to claim your bags just like one would when arriving in the US.
 
KD5MDK
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:20 am

YULACYYZ wrote:
It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.

Of course we can all fall victims of a crime, and I find that the no fly list is a bit strong. Unless there is more to the story, and that they can somehow link her to the scammer.

Almost nobody outside of a travel agent or airline employee is going to know what any of those terms mean, or even how they would apply to a situation. That's definitely not a piece of evidence of the consumer's state of mind.

The student thought they were using a discount they weren't entitled to (or maybe even were, depending on what Air Canada's terms for employee discounts for friends are). They weren't planning to use stolen credit cards (probably). There's definitely misconduct, but it's not a 100% thing.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:49 am

Even China where you are required to clear immigration and custom on arrival, you can check your bags all the way through to a domestic destination if your carrier is Air China via PEK, or China Eastern via SHA. There are exceptions in every case and there are many countries do not require you to recheck bag blat first international arrival to a domestic destination.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:52 am

chonetsao wrote:
Even China where you are required to clear immigration and custom on arrival, you can check your bags all the way through to a domestic destination if your carrier is Air China via PEK, or China Eastern via SHA. There are exceptions in every case and there are many countries do not require you to recheck bag blat first international arrival to a domestic destination.


My off hand comment, supporting another post about how dumb people can be, got really blown out of proportion. That works almost everywhere. You clear customs and put your bag back on a conveyor belt and it gets put on your domestic connecting flight if you were on one ticket.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:01 am

WayexTDI wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
AC should be thanking this passenger not banning her. At least she didn't open an emergency exit or demand that an agent kneel down to her.

Completely out of contest. And moronic on top of that...


Wait is there a contest going on? Do tell!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:09 am

9w748capt wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
AC should be thanking this passenger not banning her. At least she didn't open an emergency exit or demand that an agent kneel down to her.

Completely out of contest. And moronic on top of that...


Wait is there a contest going on? Do tell!


I think he meant context, not contest.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:50 am

ITSTours wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

So you fly to Calama, Chile via Santiago you go through customs in Calama?

Funny, I’ve been to something like 40 countries and it’s always been that way.

Yo understand that I’m talking about a domestic connection after an international arrival, right? Not transiting a country.

For example: LAX-AKL, then connect to Dunedin.


So you've never been to any EU/Schengen country? You clear immigration where you land first. Your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. You'll only see it at your final destination. There are usually customs officers present at the luggage carousel. When they see a baggage tag without a green line on the side, they can check it - or not.
And now when you arrive to Canada on AC from the USA, Europe and Australia, your luggage gets transferred to your connecting flight. Just as in the EU.


Really depends on the country and the airport. Or even on the airlines and the routes.

EU/Schengen countries does not require collecting bags and rechecking them.
Many other countries do, like USA or Japan.
In South Korea, ICN-PUS/TAE route is designated specially so you transit at ICN like an international passenger, and the immigration and customs happen in PUS/TAE.
In China PVG, even an international transit passenger have to clear customs and recheck the baggage unless they are transiting with MU or their partners....

In PEK, when arriving with an international flight operated by CA you DON‘T have to clear customs when arriving in PEK. You will see your luggage at your final destination in China, depending on the airport (I did it this way recently FRA- PEK - Yantai (Chinese coastal city).
 
Adipocere
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:02 am

GoSharks wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?

I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:24 am

Adipocere wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?

I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.


Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?
 
AC1
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:28 am

Another twist to this story. CBC had been called out by AC publicly in the past after an internal CBC email surfaced showing CBC management was directing their reporters to paint AC in a negative way.
With all the news of today, this story has now been up on the CBC website as the second lead story, right after the Canadian genocide story (!)
When posting on the forum under this story on the CBC website, they are moderating and deleting any challenge to CBC whatsoever.
While there is “a story” here, I’m
suspicious that there is more to it and that CBC is continuing their chase of AC...for an unknown reason. Not quite Fake News, but edging closer.
 
Interested
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:11 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.


Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:24 am

Interested wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Adipocere wrote:

I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.


Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO


I guess you didn’t pick up on the fact that I was being sarcastic.

Sure, companies always take unethical and fraudulent behavior on the chin. (Sarcasm again).
 
Bradin
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:30 am

Adipocere wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?

I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.


Not to be politically insensitive, or culturally incorrect, but my asian friends are extremely price conscious and bargain hunters. They really do know how to squeeze and maximize the dollar. At times, I feel they are excessively frugal despite having a lot of money or their families being quite wealthy.

It may very well be the culture - something that we may not understand.
 
B747forever
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:51 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Even in the Schengen area there are exceptions. I flew into OSL as a Schengen arrival and there were announcements that anyone making domestic connections within Norway had to collect their bags and clear customs in OSL before rechecking their bags. I suspect the same is true in Sweden, which I believe is another country that separates domestic from Schengen.


Norway is a part of Schengen treaty, but not an EU member. So they can do it. I doubt Sweden would do it, as it would be a violation of EU rules.

You go through customs (and passport control, of course) at the first point of entry to Sweden, then re-check your bags onto your domestic flight. At least at ARN. I guess it works the same way at GOT.


Learned that the hard way. A couple of years ago I flew LAX-SFO-CPH-GOT-ARN, and thought my bag would be transferred all the way to ARN. The bag never showed up at ARN, as I was supposed to pick it up at GOT and clear customs. Fortunately it arrived the next day and was delivered to me even though it was my fault the bag was delay.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Adipocere
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:27 am

Interested wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Adipocere wrote:

I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.


Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO


It’s one thing to use codes from friends and family and something else to hit up some random guy named “CaptainCool” on the internet. We don’t even know if this Captain is real or not since the account with that handle supposedly has vanished. The whole things stinks..
 
Interested
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:36 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Interested wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO


I guess you didn’t pick up on the fact that I was being sarcastic.

Sure, companies always take unethical and fraudulent behavior on the chin. (Sarcasm again).


The reason I didn't pick up on your sarcasm is that the internet is awash with offers of codes and ways to grab great discounts

This to me doesn't seem far fetched that the woman finds this offer and try to take advantage of it

She's not done anything criminal IMO

The fact it's called "captain cool" seems to make people think she's been naive or something?

Why not call it "Captain Cool"

I'm just saying as an outsider looking in none of this seems that strange to me. It's all pretty understandable to me how she would keep buying tickets if she's getting a discount and it works

I'm sure the scammer wasn't advertising what he did was illegal or fraudulent

Maybe I'm missing something?
 
Interested
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:41 am

Adipocere wrote:
Interested wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO


It’s one thing to use codes from friends and family and something else to hit up some random guy named “CaptainCool” on the internet. We don’t even know if this Captain is real or not since the account with that handle supposedly has vanished. The whole things stinks..


What you don't know she wouldn't know either. Shes seen a discount offer on the internet. Shes gone for it. He's delivered 4 times plus by the looks of it.

We now find out after the event he's a scammer.

Most scammers actually take your money and run.

In this case he's supplied what he's offered. She had more reason to trust he was genuine.

Her risk was the first time she sent him money.

It's an unusual scam. On the one hand the guy is scamming air Canada. On the other hand he's supplying his client.

As a fraudster it seems easier just to sell tickets that dont exist to people than going to the effort of getting the tickets

Anyway I think the focus on this should be on Captain cool and not the woman who trusted him to supply her etc

IMO
 
Interested
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:46 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Interested wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Sounds normal to me. Don’t you always go to WeChat when you are looking for discount airline tickets because employee discounts are offered to everyone?


Have to agree

For years I booked hotels at big discounts using friends and family codes when I've got no actual friends and family at the hotel chain. Was just given the code by someone - it worked and and I saved money

I didn't consider what I was doing illegal. Just taking advantage of a discount code. If I had been refused the deal by the hotels I would have known it didn't work and wouldn't have done it. Each time I booked they were happy to take my booking and my money.

If the first flight the woman booked hadn't been honoured she would have known what she was doing didn't work

It worked and I can understand why she continued. I don't see anything particularly wrong with what she did.

And I would have thought Air Canada just take this on the chin

The wrongdoer here is the guy doing the scam surely? It's him they should be going after?

IMO


I guess you didn’t pick up on the fact that I was being sarcastic.

Sure, companies always take unethical and fraudulent behavior on the chin. (Sarcasm again).


But I only see one fraudster here?

Captain Cool?

You can actually argue the woman is also a victim of the fraud.

She's lucky the flight tickets came through and she didn't lose her money etc
 
Andy33
Posts: 2474
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:01 am

AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

It isn't the case in European countries either, as long as the ultimate destination airport has Customs facilities at all. Immigration, now, that's different.
 
stefanJ
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:48 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:20 am

I guess I am one of the rare ones here who have had their CC checked.

Flying QR a month ago on BKK-DOH-VCE, prior to checking in online I had to upload a scan of my CC statement proving it is mine, a scan of the card, a scan of my passport, to be told that all is fine. Then at BKK I had to present my card at check in, be escorted to their airport sales office, where the card was charged for 1THB (about 2 cents) and then refunded for the 1THB, I was given both receipts which I was told to hold onto until I land in VCE, and yep, I had to show these at the gate when boarding to DOH. Honestly, the biggest PITA ever, especially considering that the same card was used on about 100 different flights of mine in the past 3 years...

Sorry, just wanted to share echoing what some users posted here already...
 
ShanghaiNoon
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:45 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:44 am

People buy dodgy products and services from weirdos on WeChat all the time. Every chat group I'm in has these unscrupulous merchants selling almost anything you can imagine. Even on qunar.com most of the tickets offered are in violation of the airlines' terms and conditions. One time I purchased a ticket from YVR to PVG, and the dodgy travel agent purchased YVR - PVG - HKG for me because it was cheaper. I only found out when I tried to reschedule it and had to go to the MU office in Vancouver to sort it out. They were totally cool with it, and let me cancel the HKG flight without any charge.
 
GoSharks
Posts: 129
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:07 am

Adipocere wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
What kind of “student” flies paid business class on long haul international flights. Also if she were a student in Canada why was she flying back and forth from China - shouldn’t she be in class?

I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.

Rich people don’t get rich or stay rich by ignoring deals and other ways to save money.

Fall break is a thing too, depending on the school. Also, so is thanksgiving break. Even missing a week of school to go home isn’t that big a deal in college.

Her November trip was to Vancouver. That’s an easy weekend trip.

Nothing about those details is suspicious.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13638
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:34 am

mjoelnir wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
Probable only in the United States and a few other countries? In most European countries you just change flights and pick up your bag at your final destination.


Every country I’ve ever traveled to is the same. You are telling me you don’t have to go through customs at your first destination when entering a country?

My point was that was apparently Panama’s law and some stupid person blamed the airline and gave them a poor review.


When you travel to the EU and your luggage is booked through, you collect your luggage at your destination and go through customs there.. It does not change anything if you go from JFK via CDG or AMS to HAM (different country), or for example from JFK via FRA or MUC to HAM (same country). Each time you collect your luggage in HAM and go through customs there. You go through immigration in the first destination in a Schengen country, That would be CDG, AMS, FRA or MUC, but not HAM in this cases.

It seems you have never traveled to a country in the EU.
Even in the US there are airports where you don't have to recheck your bags, like DFW (at least on international to international connections). Having a German passport and being on the way from HAM to SJO and back in 2014, I never had to recheck my bags since I was directed to using the green APCs during immigration and then was told to use a special elevator that lets you bypass the baggage claim area and you get directly back to the check-in area. Maybe ORD has the same thing but I'm not sure. In EWR, I did have to recheck my bags.

And yes, you're right. In Europe, when arriving from a third country in the Schengen area, you clear customs at the final Schengen destination while clearing passport control at the first point of entry into the Schengen area. That still does not change the fact that in other countries, you have to recheck your bags because of local customs regulations. Plus the example with PTY was a domestic thing, so you would've gone through customs anyway. Customs in PTY is a very big area, you hand over the customs form, put all your bags on the scanner and you're done in less than a minute (unless they see something see something suspicious of course).
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
fraT
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:49 am

If this lady is the only known person who was flying on tickets bought by this person then it is hard for me to believe that she is not part of the scum.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:53 am

alfa164 wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

In you case, you were probably flying on to another country.

In BoeingGuy's example, she landed in Panama City and was connecting to another airport in Panama. In those cases, you (almost!) always have to clear Customs and Immigration at your entry into the country.

Copy. I must have missed that part. That changes everything.
GoSharks wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

If you’re doing a international to domestic connection in Japan, you have to claim your bags just like one would when arriving in the US.

Right. I missed the part where it was an international to domestic connection, which changes everything.
Captain Kevin
 
Interested
Posts: 647
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:02 am

fraT wrote:
If this lady is the only known person who was flying on tickets bought by this person then it is hard for me to believe that she is not part of the scum.


If she was part of the scam why would she be paying anybody 5800 dollars for three flights?

This is all being over dramatised on here

Far worse and bigger scams happen every minute

A guy uses stolen credit cards to buy stuff, sells it cheap to turn into cash

Happens every minute of every day

Just don't see why she's the focus in recouping the money myself.

Should be captain cool they are going after
 
offloaded
Posts: 951
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:03 am

As a travel agent, here is one scam we are aware of.

The traveller buys the ticket from Capt Fraud for cheaper than they can get from the airline directly. They may be innocent, or maybe they know. Capt Fraud waits until travel is almost imminent and then buys the ticket from an unwitting travel agent using the stolen credit card. He does not go into the agency, but emails or calls in the details. It's the card details that have been stolen or cloned, but it hasn't been reported stolen. The ticket is then issued as the card goes through, all is well. The traveller travels. Then the card holder notices a charge he didn't authorise (although you'd be amazed at how many people don't even check their statements) and calls Visa/MC/Amex etc to dispute the charge. If the agency put the card number directly into the booking, the airline will send the agency a charge back. If the agent can't provide proof such as copy of the card, ID of the cardholder, authorization from the cardholder, then they get an ADM (Agency Debit Memo) for the value of the ticket. 100% loss to the agency. If the agency issued the ticket as cash/cheque/invoice (as we still can and pay through BSP later), then the agnecy has to provide that same proof to the card company instead of the airline. If they can't, same result: 100% loss.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
User avatar
Lingon
Posts: 85
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Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:12 am

YYZYYT wrote:
As for the OP, can't tell whether this woman is an innocent (but dumb) victim, or in on the scam; though surely she must have wondered why she was entitled to fly on an employee fare?


My guess: She thought this was foul play by an employee so she was not entitled to the low fare but both she and the employee benefitted from it. But she didn't think of the possibility that there was no employee but a credit card fraud. In other words - she was in on a scam, but not the scam it really was..

A bit like employees who are entitled to buy things at a big discount where they work, but only for personal use. Then they sell it anyway, they make money and the buyer still gets the stuff cheaper than in the store.


WildcatYXU wrote:
vhqpa wrote:
Even in the Schengen area there are exceptions. I flew into OSL as a Schengen arrival and there were announcements that anyone making domestic connections within Norway had to collect their bags and clear customs in OSL before rechecking their bags. I suspect the same is true in Sweden, which I believe is another country that separates domestic from Schengen.


Norway is a part of Schengen treaty, but not an EU member. So they can do it. I doubt Sweden would do it, as it would be a violation of EU rules.


Everytime I have been outside Europe and connected from another Schengen country (usually at AMS) to Sweden, my bags have been checked through.
My little local airport here has customs officers, but no immigration check.
However, I have not connected to a domestic flight, so I don't know how that works. But conceptually, it is no real difference between "domestic" and "within Schengen" - that is the whole point.
 
DUSZRH
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:24 am

To the airline it’s like she paid the tickets with a fraudulent credit card (I.e. not at all), so she is liable for the ticket costs.

If you buy a stolen car, you can’t expect to keep it!

Obviously she could try to get it back from that captain, but he’s the professional here, so it will be tough.

If you fly non-rev, there are a lot of differences in the tickets, so it’s highly likely to me that if she wanted to find out after the first flight she could.

If you have unpaid bills with a company it’s common that they refuse business with you until you paid up.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14330
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:20 am

If a deal sounds too good to be true, then it is. I wonder if 'Captain Fraud' has some inside connections with AC or just made it sound plausible he did. For sure he needs to be facing the dock with serious fraud and stolen credit card charges. It is also possible someone with the same and common name on the stolen credit card matched the buyer's so bypassed AC's credit card processing and matching to the ticket.
 
ShanghaiNoon
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:45 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:35 am

Interested wrote:
fraT wrote:

Should be captain cool they are going after


Unfortunately, it seems he deleted his WeChat account. I tried searching every variation of the name I could think of. Not to worry. There are plenty of others. I just had a quick word with Mr Momo and he said he can get me a one-way business class ticket from Shanghai to Vancouver for $2,500.

ltbewr wrote:
If a deal sounds too good to be true, then it is. I wonder if 'Captain Fraud' has some inside connections with AC or just made it sound plausible he did. For sure he needs to be facing the dock with serious fraud and stolen credit card charges. It is also possible someone with the same and common name on the stolen credit card matched the buyer's so bypassed AC's credit card processing and matching to the ticket.


He's not going to face any charges. He's some rando with stolen Chinese credit cards who trolls WeChat groups looking for buyers. There's thousands of these accounts, which may or may not be connected to the IDs of real people. There's virtually no way of tracking him down.
 
Adipocere
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:09 pm

GoSharks wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
GoSharks wrote:
I don’t know where you are from, but most Chinese students who are studying abroad come from extremely well off families. Flying back in business is not one bit surprising. And haven’t you ever heard of break? Spring, summer, winter?


I don’t know something doesn’t smell right. If she is so rich to contemplate business class travel as a student why would she go to some cut rate “captain cool” on wechat? And for the second point, apparently this incident took place in Oct-Nov timeframe last year. I am not aware of spring, summer or winter break happening in that timeframe.

Rich people don’t get rich or stay rich by ignoring deals and other ways to save money.

Fall break is a thing too, depending on the school. Also, so is thanksgiving break. Even missing a week of school to go home isn’t that big a deal in college.

Her November trip was to Vancouver. That’s an easy weekend trip.

Nothing about those details is suspicious.


I don’t think Canadian thanksgiving is in November as is fall break if offered. I hope that the police have her in custody until they check her out thoroughly. It’s only her word that “CaptainCool” even exists...
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 757
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:27 pm

ltbewr wrote:
If a deal sounds too good to be true, then it is.

True. But 5,800 USD for three flights doesn't sound too good to be true. Especially not for a student.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1739
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:21 am

AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.


In Panama, they have no way to clear the customer in David, so it has to be done in PTY. So clear customs, grab bag, run back upstairs, and recheck-in. You then go up the stairs between the security checkpoint and there's a walkway to the area for the domestic flights.
xx
 
ThePointblank
Topic Author
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:50 am

MartijnNL wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
If a deal sounds too good to be true, then it is.

True. But 5,800 USD for three flights doesn't sound too good to be true. Especially not for a student.

It is if they are business-class seats.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 507
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:10 am

usxguy wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
They apparently had no clue that it’s a Customs’ law in probably every country that you have to pick up your bag when you first enter the country and clear Customs with it.

Not necessarily true. I've connected in NRT multiple times and unless anything has changed since 2006, I've never had to do this.

In Panama, they have no way to clear the customer in David, so it has to be done in PTY. So clear customs, grab bag, run back upstairs, and recheck-in. You then go up the stairs between the security checkpoint and there's a walkway to the area for the domestic flights.

Yeah, I had missed the part where it was an international to domestic connection. That changes everything.
Captain Kevin

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