offloaded
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:35 am

Right on queue, I have just received this email, which I know is from a scammer, so I'm happy to post the guys details:

Privat Bank <[email protected]>
08:36 (59 minutes ago)
to Privat

Hello,

Greetings i would like to know if your agency can help some of our traveling members to book flight tickets.And let me know the types of credit card for transactions.

Regards,
David Kool
Tel:+12026438594
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
ShanghaiNoon
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:45 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:23 am

Adipocere wrote:

It’s only her word that “CaptainCool” even exists...


If she corresponded to him via WeChat, she would be able to prove it. However I searched for him and came up with nothing.
 
cskok8
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:25 am

offloaded wrote:
As a travel agent, here is one scam we are aware of.

The traveller buys the ticket from Capt Fraud for cheaper than they can get from the airline directly. They may be innocent, or maybe they know. Capt Fraud waits until travel is almost imminent and then buys the ticket from an unwitting travel agent using the stolen credit card. He does not go into the agency, but emails or calls in the details. It's the card details that have been stolen or cloned, but it hasn't been reported stolen. The ticket is then issued as the card goes through, all is well. The traveller travels. Then the card holder notices a charge he didn't authorise (although you'd be amazed at how many people don't even check their statements) and calls Visa/MC/Amex etc to dispute the charge. If the agency put the card number directly into the booking, the airline will send the agency a charge back. If the agent can't provide proof such as copy of the card, ID of the cardholder, authorization from the cardholder, then they get an ADM (Agency Debit Memo) for the value of the ticket. 100% loss to the agency. If the agency issued the ticket as cash/cheque/invoice (as we still can and pay through BSP later), then the agnecy has to provide that same proof to the card company instead of the airline. If they can't, same result: 100% loss.


When the traveler gets the "ticket" from Capt Fraud it will not have the airline PNR. That can only be obtained when the fraudster actually books the ticket with said stolen credit card. Wouldn't the traveler chase Capt Fraud for that or would they target people who are ignorant of this.
 
offloaded
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:34 am

cskok8 wrote:
offloaded wrote:
As a travel agent, here is one scam we are aware of.

The traveller buys the ticket from Capt Fraud for cheaper than they can get from the airline directly. They may be innocent, or maybe they know. Capt Fraud waits until travel is almost imminent and then buys the ticket from an unwitting travel agent using the stolen credit card. He does not go into the agency, but emails or calls in the details. It's the card details that have been stolen or cloned, but it hasn't been reported stolen. The ticket is then issued as the card goes through, all is well. The traveller travels. Then the card holder notices a charge he didn't authorise (although you'd be amazed at how many people don't even check their statements) and calls Visa/MC/Amex etc to dispute the charge. If the agency put the card number directly into the booking, the airline will send the agency a charge back. If the agent can't provide proof such as copy of the card, ID of the cardholder, authorization from the cardholder, then they get an ADM (Agency Debit Memo) for the value of the ticket. 100% loss to the agency. If the agency issued the ticket as cash/cheque/invoice (as we still can and pay through BSP later), then the agnecy has to provide that same proof to the card company instead of the airline. If they can't, same result: 100% loss.


When the traveler gets the "ticket" from Capt Fraud it will not have the airline PNR. That can only be obtained when the fraudster actually books the ticket with said stolen credit card. Wouldn't the traveler chase Capt Fraud for that or would they target people who are ignorant of this.


That's a very good question. I would guess most of this guys "clients" probably don't have internet access to look up their reservation or check themselves in online. The best fraudsters would come up with something plausible. If the traveller is in on the scam they they'll know it's going to be a last minute issue.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
UpNAWAy
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:13 pm

In the US on international travel I have had issues buying my kids tickets on a flight I am not traveling. In both cases On line and Reservations refused to process the tickets I had to go to an airport in person and that was on uber Friendly Delta and is 100% due to cc Fraud. Airplane tickets in general when the payer is not a traveler is the number one sign of fraud I was told.
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:27 pm

cskok8 wrote:
offloaded wrote:
As a travel agent, here is one scam we are aware of.

The traveller buys the ticket from Capt Fraud for cheaper than they can get from the airline directly. They may be innocent, or maybe they know. Capt Fraud waits until travel is almost imminent and then buys the ticket from an unwitting travel agent using the stolen credit card. He does not go into the agency, but emails or calls in the details. It's the card details that have been stolen or cloned, but it hasn't been reported stolen. The ticket is then issued as the card goes through, all is well. The traveller travels. Then the card holder notices a charge he didn't authorise (although you'd be amazed at how many people don't even check their statements) and calls Visa/MC/Amex etc to dispute the charge. If the agency put the card number directly into the booking, the airline will send the agency a charge back. If the agent can't provide proof such as copy of the card, ID of the cardholder, authorization from the cardholder, then they get an ADM (Agency Debit Memo) for the value of the ticket. 100% loss to the agency. If the agency issued the ticket as cash/cheque/invoice (as we still can and pay through BSP later), then the agnecy has to provide that same proof to the card company instead of the airline. If they can't, same result: 100% loss.


When the traveler gets the "ticket" from Capt Fraud it will not have the airline PNR. That can only be obtained when the fraudster actually books the ticket with said stolen credit card. Wouldn't the traveler chase Capt Fraud for that or would they target people who are ignorant of this.


When I book with an online agency (Expedia, Aerpplan, etc) I get a ref # generated by the travel agency, but not the airline PN. I have to look that up myself, or call and request. I do it routinely because I
have been caught in the past when I needed assistance and realized (when on the spot) that I didn't have the PNR.

Most people, don't notice the difference, I'm sure.
 
cskok8
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:29 pm

YYZYYT wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
offloaded wrote:
As a travel agent, here is one scam we are aware of.

The traveller buys the ticket from Capt Fraud for cheaper than they can get from the airline directly. They may be innocent, or maybe they know. Capt Fraud waits until travel is almost imminent and then buys the ticket from an unwitting travel agent using the stolen credit card. He does not go into the agency, but emails or calls in the details. It's the card details that have been stolen or cloned, but it hasn't been reported stolen. The ticket is then issued as the card goes through, all is well. The traveller travels. Then the card holder notices a charge he didn't authorise (although you'd be amazed at how many people don't even check their statements) and calls Visa/MC/Amex etc to dispute the charge. If the agency put the card number directly into the booking, the airline will send the agency a charge back. If the agent can't provide proof such as copy of the card, ID of the cardholder, authorization from the cardholder, then they get an ADM (Agency Debit Memo) for the value of the ticket. 100% loss to the agency. If the agency issued the ticket as cash/cheque/invoice (as we still can and pay through BSP later), then the agnecy has to provide that same proof to the card company instead of the airline. If they can't, same result: 100% loss.


When the traveler gets the "ticket" from Capt Fraud it will not have the airline PNR. That can only be obtained when the fraudster actually books the ticket with said stolen credit card. Wouldn't the traveler chase Capt Fraud for that or would they target people who are ignorant of this.


When I book with an online agency (Expedia, Aerpplan, etc) I get a ref # generated by the travel agency, but not the airline PN. I have to look that up myself, or call and request. I do it routinely because I
have been caught in the past when I needed assistance and realized (when on the spot) that I didn't have the PNR.

Most people, don't notice the difference, I'm sure.


They usually say that an airline PNR will be sent within 24 hours. So far I have received it within 1-2 hours
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1024
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:56 pm

cskok8 wrote:
YYZYYT wrote:
cskok8 wrote:

When the traveler gets the "ticket" from Capt Fraud it will not have the airline PNR. That can only be obtained when the fraudster actually books the ticket with said stolen credit card. Wouldn't the traveler chase Capt Fraud for that or would they target people who are ignorant of this.


When I book with an online agency (Expedia, Aerpplan, etc) I get a ref # generated by the travel agency, but not the airline PN. I have to look that up myself, or call and request. I do it routinely because I
have been caught in the past when I needed assistance and realized (when on the spot) that I didn't have the PNR.

Most people, don't notice the difference, I'm sure.


They usually say that an airline PNR will be sent within 24 hours. So far I have received it within 1-2 hours


I've had cases where I never got it, and realized only when I tried to check in that the Ref # was not the PNR. As I said, I now routinely look it up or ask for it in advance, since I never know where I will be when I need to check in (and whether I ill be able to look it up at that moment).
 
User avatar
FCOTSTW
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:51 pm

Airline tickets are considered transportation contracts. She infringed the contract's provisions, hence she is liable.

Good job to AC for detecting it.
 
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FCOTSTW
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:55 pm

mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


Right. Years ago at check-in you had to present the original credit card, otherwise your ticket had to be issued as "Prepaid Ticket Advice".
Obviously, the cost of keeping such a system was higher than the benefit, so airlines would rather take a risk than holding this cost.
 
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FCOTSTW
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:59 pm

airboss787 wrote:
Where did they get the $18k from? Was that the cost of all tickets or does that include damages?


I bet they calculated the full fare Business class ticket published on the flight dates.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 488
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:10 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
In the US on international travel I have had issues buying my kids tickets on a flight I am not traveling. In both cases On line and Reservations refused to process the tickets I had to go to an airport in person and that was on uber Friendly Delta and is 100% due to cc Fraud. Airplane tickets in general when the payer is not a traveler is the number one sign of fraud I was told.

Makes me wonder how people book tickets for unaccompanied minors. Sounds like a hassle.
Captain Kevin
 
Elementalism
Posts: 422
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:15 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


This happened to me at YVR on CI. In the ten months since I’d bought the ticket, I had to have the card cancelled and a new one issued. That happens. You’d think the airlines would have to make allowances for this.

I had no problem getting to YVR on QX, but CI flagged it. After a lot of stress, they made me fill out some paperwork while the flight was boarding, and I was allowed to board. The credit card company was no help at all when I called them.


If the airline was paid by the CC. Why does the airline need a CC at check-in? I have never had an airline ask me for a credit card. Is this common outside the US? Genuinely curious.
 
mwhcvt
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:25 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


This happened to me at YVR on CI. In the ten months since I’d bought the ticket, I had to have the card cancelled and a new one issued. That happens. You’d think the airlines would have to make allowances for this.

I had no problem getting to YVR on QX, but CI flagged it. After a lot of stress, they made me fill out some paperwork while the flight was boarding, and I was allowed to board. The credit card company was no help at all when I called them.


See the last time I had to deal with this issue from a credit card company stand point I was able to draft a quick letter on company letterhead plus a old statement print out and fax this down to the airlines back office at LHR but then I was always willing to go that extra mile for my customers most of the people I worked with would not have helped
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2157
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:26 pm

Something is off here.

In her version of the story, she's extremely gullible and just a victim.

But somehow I don't think China send their most gullible and stupid people abroad to study.

And even if she went to study in Canada - not on merit - but purely because her family could afford to pay for it, well then she should have been able to pay for normal fares.

The money she sent to this "CaptainCooll" could have bought her multiple return trip economy tickets.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:11 pm

Elementalism wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
mwhcvt wrote:
There’s something I don’t get here, I used to about 10 years ago work for a major UK credit card company, and one of the calls we used to get on a semi regular basis was from customers stuck at check in not being able too check in as they no longer had the credit card they booked the flight on (stolen/lost card) so replaced on a new number, or just didn’t take that card away with them, and airline refusing to let them check in because they don’t have the card to present, so if this was a fairly standard anti fraud measure 10 years ago how is it that AC were not doing that for the first flight she tried to use!


This happened to me at YVR on CI. In the ten months since I’d bought the ticket, I had to have the card cancelled and a new one issued. That happens. You’d think the airlines would have to make allowances for this.

I had no problem getting to YVR on QX, but CI flagged it. After a lot of stress, they made me fill out some paperwork while the flight was boarding, and I was allowed to board. The credit card company was no help at all when I called them.


If the airline was paid by the CC. Why does the airline need a CC at check-in? I have never had an airline ask me for a credit card. Is this common outside the US? Genuinely curious.

Have paid for grandchildren and other relatives, and the credit card company has phoned almost immediately as transaction flagged as possibly fraudulent, to confirm OK.
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Air Canada imposes 'no fly' ban, demands repayment from woman after ticket scam

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:49 pm

YULACYYZ wrote:
...
It is buyers be aware and unfortunately, buying stolen goods makes you part of the crime. She must have known somehow in regards to comparing fares, and anything that says NOEND (non endorsable), NORFND (no refund), NOCHG (no change), NORRTE (non re-routable), Valid only this carrier, dates shown, is a good indication about their purchases.
...


Oh dear. I flew today on a deeply discounted ticket. it was non-endorsable, NOCHG, NORRTE, NORFND. Do I have to suspect that I bought stolen goods? And yes, I am an airline geek, and I actually know what these abbreviations are supposed to mean, and am undeterred. Is a less experienced traveler obliged to refuse to travel, if she notices these letters on her ticket?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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