• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:22 am

Caravelle lover
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:44 am

Weird. The "Spacejet" ( :sour: ) is the exact same size, isn't it? Are they admitting defeat on that and just buying a new airframe?
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2139
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:46 am

The obvious question is... why?

The CRJ program would cost more than it is worth for someone without a solution for the market; never mind a manufacturer that has half on the drawing board, half off it, the only next-gen 76 seater.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12949
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:56 am

I've been speculating on a CRJ revamp, not a bad idea looking at the basics.

Image

The overlap with the MRJ-70 is more than obvious though and that won't go away.

What would be a big bonus for MHI would be the globally established aftermarket and support organisations supporting 1500CRJ flying around today.. Mitsubishi building that up from the ground, wouldn't be for free / take a lot of time / be a major weakness in selling its MRJ's..

I can even see Airbus cooperating / joining. It doesn't bite the A220 and prevents Boeing getting in later next to their Brazil investment. If Boeing Brasil lets go the slow selling non-scope compliant 175-E2 and focusses on the big E190E2, E195E2 and possible growth version, all options are open on that side.. The E175-E2 sub program is starting to look like an orphan.. https://leehamnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/E-jet-and-E2-family-picture.jpg


Image
Last edited by keesje on Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:11 am, edited 7 times in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2578
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:57 am

Sad that Bombardier is completely leaving commercial aviation. I hope they a return when the time is right for them. (If that ever happens)
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Posts: 1170
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:00 am

LaunchDetected wrote:


Thanks for providing the link
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:02 am

Buying the program for a symbolic dollar and closing the lines to supress a Spacejet competitor?

Maybe i am overthinking
Caravelle lover
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2702
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:29 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
Buying the program for a symbolic dollar and closing the lines to supress a Spacejet competitor?

Maybe i am overthinking


Or buying it for a dollar and receiving a functional frame, so they can throw away the MRJ? The faults with that one have been significant and will be costly to fix. What if it is cheaper to put PW GTFs on the CRJ?
 
GmvAfcs
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:25 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:48 am

Could be a way to easily gain a production line certificate from FAA/EASA (remember Mitsubishi is new to the industry and would have to go from the beginning), and maybe have a production line in the west for the MRJ. Also, the services and support chain boost to MRJ program cannot be neglected.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9284
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:52 am

CRJ would get Mitsubishi’s foot in the door and buy it time for the MRJ/Spacejet. Remember Mitsubishi is effectively relaunching that jet (or at least the smaller variant) and looking at moving production over to the US. That will likely delay the smaller variant (the CRJ competitor) a few years. When the MRJ/Spacejet is up and running at full steam the CRJ can be phased out. I don’t see them moving MRJ to Mirabel where they will have to compete for space with Airbus and the A220.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:55 am

I would have preferred to see a JV between Bombardier and Mitsubishi. Bombardier has the know-how and support network and Mitsubishi has the money.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20625
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:29 am

GmvAfcs wrote:
maybe have a production line in the west for the MRJ.

That's pretty much the opposite of what Japan wants to see happen.

I do agree about the bootstrapping of FAA/EASA approvals and that the supply/support chain are valuable things.

Alas the main issue for this market segment, scope clause issues, just aren't going away.

Yes, I know scope clauses are a US thing, but the US is still the largest market for aircraft in these sizes, and the non-US market so far has not shown itself to be able to support the kind of diversity that the market wants to supply.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:29 am

VV wrote:
WTF?


I don't think Mitsubishi is buying the CRJ for the CRJ. Bombardier is probably doing what they did with the Q400. They'll sell Mitsu the CRJ (then Mitsu can wind down the production), and Mitsubishi will get access to the CRJ's support network and use that for the MRJ.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9284
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:31 am

Revelation wrote:
GmvAfcs wrote:
maybe have a production line in the west for the MRJ.

That's pretty much the opposite of what Japan wants to see happen.

May not be what Japan wants to happen, but according to rumors it is something Mitsubishi is exploring.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:33 am

Polot wrote:
CRJ would get Mitsubishi’s foot in the door and buy it time for the MRJ/Spacejet. Remember Mitsubishi is effectively relaunching that jet (or at least the smaller variant) and looking at moving production over to the US. That will likely delay the smaller variant (the CRJ competitor) a few years. When the MRJ/Spacejet is up and running at full steam the CRJ can be phased out. I don’t see them moving MRJ to Mirabel where they will have to compete for space with Airbus and the A220.


:checkmark: :checkmark:

I think Mitsu said they'll open a SpaceJet production line in Moses Lake, Washington.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:35 am

VSMUT wrote:

Or buying it for a dollar and receiving a functional frame, so they can throw away the MRJ?


I don't think I would bet my money on that happening. ;)
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:39 am

Mitsubishi has confirmed they are in talks with Bombardier: https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/business/ ... am-318759/

Mitsubishi Heavy told Reuters by email that it was in discussions but that no decision had been made.

 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:41 am

It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20625
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:58 am

aviationaware wrote:
It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.

The bigger picture question to me is does it make sense to double down on this market space?

And if their plan is to end up with a non-Japan production line, will their government continue to be generous with support?

Or is this a blunt admission that they need non-Japanese assets to make progress in commercial aviation?

Or just bargain shopping?

Ironic since BBD sued Mitsu for stealing trade secrets, no?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
texl1649
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:58 am

So as part of the sale will BBD drop the ridiculous lawsuit against MITAC for stealing their people? Haha.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9284
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.

The bigger picture question to me is does it make sense to double down on this market space?

This is the market space that Mitsu is purposely doubling down on and wants to own since the E2-175 can’t currently compete in it, and there is no other viable next gen (well, current gen now I guess) competitor. They are adjusting the MRJ/Spacejet to meet scope clauses.

RJs are almost exclusively a US market thing, but it is still a huge market especially for a new brand to grow from. The CRJ + E170/175 has sold like 1500+ planes.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:11 pm

A new nickname is on order. From Canadair Jet to CanaJap Jet.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:20 pm

Revelation wrote:

Or is this a blunt admission that they need non-Japanese assets to make progress in commercial aviation?

Or just bargain shopping?


I think both.
 
VV
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:33 pm

Unfortunately the joint venture between Embraer and Boeing is called Boeing Brasil Commercial.

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:35 pm

VV wrote:
Unfortunately the joint venture between Embraer and Boeing is called Boeing Brasil Commercial.

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.


They should have just gone with Boeing-EMB.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:40 pm

texl1649 wrote:
So as part of the sale will BBD drop the ridiculous lawsuit against MITAC for stealing their people? Haha.


Maybe the lawsuit isn't as ridiculous as it looks? No idea. However, it's all part of the value equation in making a bid I guess.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12949
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm

VSMUT wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
Buying the program for a symbolic dollar and closing the lines to supress a Spacejet competitor?

Maybe i am overthinking


Or buying it for a dollar and receiving a functional frame, so they can throw away the MRJ? The faults with that one have been significant and will be costly to fix. What if it is cheaper to put PW GTFs on the CRJ?


Personally I don't see the CRJ as an sunset line. It is very light / efficient, has upgrade potential and I assume bigger US regionals would jump on it, if it meets scope clauses MTOW 76 seats, offers full CRJ cockpit and 80% maintenance commonality and there is a big solid OE behind it for the foreseable future.

Image

The GTF's PW1200 56 inch seem the best engines at this stage, and MHI ordered it for their MRJ's. It would be a very good match. Frankly I don't see how it can be made working on the heavier E175-E2..

Image
Last edited by keesje on Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
VV wrote:
Unfortunately the joint venture between Embraer and Boeing is called Boeing Brasil Commercial.

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.


They should have just gone with Boeing-EMB.


I'm still not clear on what's wrong with the name? When Airbus bought into the CSeries, they named the Canada operations Airbus Canada. I don't see anyone concerned about Airbus Canada, so why Boeing Brasil?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3152
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:00 pm

There is the problem of 2800# plus structure added to the aft end on the CRJ. The tail empennage would require redesign, too. The engineers at BBD I’ve chatted with say it’s not possible without ballast forward.

GF
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5225
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.

The bigger picture question to me is does it make sense to double down on this market space?

And if their plan is to end up with a non-Japan production line, will their government continue to be generous with support?


I don't see the Japanese government continuing financial support for a production line in Canada, developed largely without Japanese technology, relying heavily on U.S. and Canadian suppliers. That's a complete fail on the goals of national tech development and manufacture.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:39 pm

Honestly, Mitsubishi, should just fasten their fuselage on to the CRJ and call it a day.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1336
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:03 pm

Polot wrote:
CRJ would get Mitsubishi’s foot in the door and buy it time for the MRJ/Spacejet. Remember Mitsubishi is effectively relaunching that jet (or at least the smaller variant) and looking at moving production over to the US. That will likely delay the smaller variant (the CRJ competitor) a few years. When the MRJ/Spacejet is up and running at full steam the CRJ can be phased out. I don’t see them moving MRJ to Mirabel where they will have to compete for space with Airbus and the A220.


This deal at least makes some sense. What other company would want to buy the CRJ program - Viking? Their parent has its hands full with the Q400 and all of their planes are turboprops or piston. Airbus? the CRJ would be a distraction at best. Boeing - probably would not pass anti-trust muster as they own EMB. The Russians? don't think so. The Chinese - not likely. So BBD is in talks with possibly the only buyer.

Moses Lake, although out in the boonies, is where MRJ is working the certification program and would not be a bad place for a final assembly location. I would think the MRJ would still be made in Japan, with only the final assembly here.

It would give MHI its service network and a revenue stream while the MRJ gets going. No service/support/parts is the MRJ's biggest drawback.
 
VV
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:22 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
VV wrote:
WTF?


I don't think Mitsubishi is buying the CRJ for the CRJ. Bombardier is probably doing what they did with the Q400. They'll sell Mitsu the CRJ (then Mitsu can wind down the production), and Mitsubishi will get access to the CRJ's support network and use that for the MRJ.


Wouldn't it be more reasonable to work with Skywest or someone else to build the support network in the US?

The whole thing is incredible.

But hey, if the Japanese think it's good for them then why not.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2131
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:30 pm

At the right price, it could be lucrative.

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.
 
VV
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:33 pm

So, CRJ is lucrative and Bombardier cannot make money out of it.

Mitsubishi will make money with the program.

Something does not sound very right.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:40 pm

And in keeping with CEO words

Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of #CRJ programme
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... j-p-458714
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:45 pm

VV wrote:

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.


So you're in favor of a monopoly in the below 100 seat market?

That would leave two Boeing JVs as the only viable options for a regional jet.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:47 pm

Moving fast. C-series, Q-series now CRJ headed out the door
mercure f-wtcc
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1516
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:51 pm

Let's see whether Mitsubishi's complain vanishes with that.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6460
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:53 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
They'll sell Mitsu the CRJ (then Mitsu can wind down the production), and Mitsubishi will get access to the CRJ's support network and use that for the MRJ.

And maybe rehire some of the people to take advantage of this.....
LockheedBBD wrote:
Bombardier has the know-how and support network and Mitsubishi has the money.



aviationaware wrote:
Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer.

I'm not too sure about this one though, considering the CSeries bottlenecks.


Polot wrote:
RJs are almost exclusively a US market thing, but it is still a huge market especially for a new brand to grow from.

Which is why building the Spacejet (@ ex LAFB?) in Boeing's backyard (so to speak) could be a smart move as a salve to potential opponents aggrieved senses.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-458714/


LockheedBBD wrote:
A new nickname is on order. From Canadair Jet to CanaJap Jet.

MRJ be like NipponJet..... :biggrin:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
vfw614
Posts: 3770
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:55 pm

The only programme other than the MRJ really focused on the 70-90 seat jet market is the CRJ. 90-140 seats are now all the rage with the A220 and the E190/195-E2 (Embraer could not be bothered to do an E170-E2 and there are no orders for the E175-E2), so better for Mitsubishi to get control of it instead of seeing it acquired by someone else with plans to do a CRJ NEO. Knowledge transfer regading production and support will also come in handy. The question really is at what point Mitsubushi would kill off the CRJ to focus on a MRJ family.
 
texl1649
Posts: 965
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:57 pm

BBD senior mgt is simply sick of losing money on commercial aircraft. It's that simple.

I would guess MITAC got about the same price as Airbus did for the A220; a buck, or maybe even twice that, since on this one there is a functioning/mature production line at least (but only a year and a half or so of orders).
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:01 pm

I really do wonder if focusing on the business jet segment is the right gamble. As we saw last decade, that industry is even more susceptible to economic swings than the broader air transport sector.
 
VV
Posts: 718
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:10 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
VV wrote:

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.


So you're in favor of a monopoly in the below 100 seat market?

That would leave two Boeing JVs as the only viable options for a regional jet.


Why not. It's not a huge market.

We let the A380 to have the absolute monopoly in the mighty market of 500+ seats.
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1516
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:12 pm

VV wrote:
So, CRJ is lucrative and Bombardier cannot make money out of it.

Mitsubishi will make money with the program.

Something does not sound very right.


No; the real deal is that BBD is on the hook for the CSeries. BBD is in fact paying for AIB to take the CSeries over, look carefully at the original agreement.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:19 pm

Buying a support structure may be very useful for Mitsubishi. Buying into an established supply chain, spares, engineering, etc will help with technical support infrastructure for the CRJ so that Mitsubishi doesn’t have to start from scratch.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12949
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:19 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
At the right price, it could be lucrative.

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.


Maybe on a higher level, instead of establishing yourself and fighting your way up into the market, you just buy half of it for a good price. :wink2:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20625
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:27 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
A new nickname is on order. From Canadair Jet to CanaJap Jet.

How about the "Cannippon Jet" or the "Japanadian Jet"?

JayinKitsap wrote:
Moses Lake, although out in the boonies, is where MRJ is working the certification program and would not be a bad place for a final assembly location. I would think the MRJ would still be made in Japan, with only the final assembly here.

And as we all know, WA State offers a lot of generous advantages available to any aerospace company.

MIflyer12 wrote:
I don't see the Japanese government continuing financial support for a production line in Canada, developed largely without Japanese technology, relying heavily on U.S. and Canadian suppliers. That's a complete fail on the goals of national tech development and manufacture.

That's why I raised the point. AvWeek and other pubs have talked about how Japan supports its Heavies because they view aerospace as an important growth opportunity and knowledge builder. I don't think the government will be happy to do a lot of the Heavy lifting (see what I did there?) to get MRJ to the finish line then have a lot of the jobs be handed off to other localities. I think Mitsu will have to sell this as a buy of the sales/support/supply network and maybe a FAL in the US for tax purposes but the MRJ tech would have to stay as Japanese as possible, which is hard to say when it has US engines (PW), a US cockpit (Rockwell-Collins), etc.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There is the problem of 2800# plus structure added to the aft end on the CRJ. The tail empennage would require redesign, too. The engineers at BBD I’ve chatted with say it’s not possible without ballast forward.

That's why Photoshop is so much fun, you can sweep all those inconvenient details under the rug.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 356
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:49 pm

First of all, we need to look at what the CRJ represents.
The current CRJ line-up represents the CRJ550, CRJ700, CRJ900, CRJ1000.

The overlapping products are the CRJ550, CRJ700 and CRJ900 with the MRJ70 and MRJ90.

I think that the support network plays a role but is non-crucial.
I think that MITAC doesn't want to see this program end up with a competitor, even if they aren't selling in huge numbers.

MITAC can then claim dominance in the full spectrum of this market by offering customers two options: The CRJ at lower acquisition cost, the MRJ at lower operating cost.

This leaves the E170/E175 E1 as the sole competitor, but they can crush them by offering two options for the same sales campaign.
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:03 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
A new nickname is on order.


If the MRJ is the Space Jet then the CRJ should be the No Space Jet.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos