• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6457
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:05 pm

Revelation wrote:
to get MRJ to the finish line then have a lot of the jobs be handed off to other localities. I think Mitsu will have to sell this as a buy of the sales/support/supply network and maybe a FAL in the US for tax purposes but the MRJ tech would have to stay as Japanese as possible

Essentially how Toyota and Honda got so big Stateside. Having American muscle and gizmos in the final product is a small price to pay for the anticipated gains...and they may get valuable insights too into the powerplant philosophy without being sued in the process. :smile:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:09 pm

keesje wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
Buying the program for a symbolic dollar and closing the lines to supress a Spacejet competitor?

Maybe i am overthinking


Or buying it for a dollar and receiving a functional frame, so they can throw away the MRJ? The faults with that one have been significant and will be costly to fix. What if it is cheaper to put PW GTFs on the CRJ?


Personally I don't see the CRJ as an sunset line. It is very light / efficient, has upgrade potential and I assume bigger US regionals would jump on it, if it meets scope clauses MTOW 76 seats, offers full CRJ cockpit and 80% maintenance commonality and there is a big solid OE behind it for the foreseable future.

Image

The GTF's PW1200 56 inch seem the best engines at this stage, and MHI ordered it for their MRJ's. It would be a very good match. Frankly I don't see how it can be made working on the heavier E175-E2..

Image


Wouldn’t you be worried about all the grandfathering? The type certificate for the CRJ dates back to the Challenger business jet from the 1970s. Why would Mitsubishi want such an old design with so many amended type certificates compared to the new MRJ.
 
jalarner
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:07 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:15 pm

I used to work for FedEx in Mississauga, and would often go to the MHI assembly building nowhere near the airport (on Meadowvale Blvd at Mississauga Rd.). I remember walking in one day to see a full size, fully assembled (I think) CRJ or Global Express. As of today, it shows as "SPP Canada Aircraft". Does anyone know what this is, or if it is CRJ or Global related? There are people currently on strike...I drive by daily on my way to drop my daughter off at daycare.
Support air cadets!
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:31 am

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:25 pm

spinotter wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
BBD has had huge losses in their rail business. It is killing the company.


Is that true? Some on a.net seem to have blamed the divestiture of the CSeries on the CSeries itself, that being what was killing the company. They have kept the rail business, and although I have always been an Alstom fan (A vs. B can mean Alstom versus Bombardier as well as Airbus vs. Boeing!), Bombardier seems to win a lot of big contracts in the rail business.


To give you an idea of their latest issues, search for Bombardier and R179 - the New York MTA is not happy.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12907
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:32 pm

Revelation wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There is the problem of 2800# plus structure added to the aft end on the CRJ. The tail empennage would require redesign, too. The engineers at BBD I’ve chatted with say it’s not possible without ballast forward.

That's why Photoshop is so much fun, you can sweep all those inconvenient details under the rug.


The CRJ800 concept is stretched in front of the wing to compensate the higher dry weight compared to the CF34s, and the additional structure. Similar to e.g. MD90. Looking at CRJ900s and CRJ1000s changes to the tails are minimal. BBD already engineered the heavier GE Compass engines onto the tail for the Globals.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:35 pm

Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in me I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.
 
AC77X
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:12 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:41 pm

If they do rename the CRJ, I hope it's not something like the new MRJ70 name. Spacejet is such a terrible name
 
alasizon
Posts: 1651
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:43 pm

Unless they increase the height of the fuselage, it seems pointless. Adding different engines to the back of the CRJ will either make the section aft of the wing too heavy (and require extra weight/ballast up front) or make it to the point where the aft cargo bin becomes obsolete because you either can't get equipment up to it or anything into it. Even with re-working the engine pylon location a little bit, I still don't see how one would work out those issues.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20571
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Weird. The "Spacejet" ( :sour: ) is the exact same size, isn't it? Are they admitting defeat on that and just buying a new airframe?

Jon's article ( https://theaircurrent.com/industry-stra ... j-program/ ) talks a lot about the "new" scope compliant MRJ70 to be launched at Paris Air Show.

I know some people are a bit put off by Jon's business model, but IMHO it's a good month to throw $17.99 his way to read all the stuff he's getting in advance of Paris.

I think overall it's a good way for Mitsu to get a world wide footprint and sell a nice number of legacy CRJs whilst transitioning the base to a much more modern MRJ70, whilst eliminating a competitor too.

mercure1 wrote:
Moving fast. C-series, Q-series now CRJ headed out the door

As per page 1, there's still that whole Shorts Belfast / Morocco sale needing resolution too.

Yflyer wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
A new nickname is on order.

If the MRJ is the Space Jet then the CRJ should be the No Space Jet.

YOU WIN THE INTERNET !!!

(or at least the av-geek part of it!)

VV wrote:
Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in me I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.

Well, there is such a thing as over-playing your hand.

Jon's article warns that although there is good alignment, there's still a strong risk that one party walks away from the table.

Personally I think that would happen if BBD asks for too much.

Might be a good selling opportunity.

Just sayin'...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:02 pm

Revelation wrote:
VV wrote:
Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in me I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.

Well, there is such a thing as over-playing your hand.

Jon's article warns that although there is good alignment, there's still a strong risk that one party walks away from the table.


It's up 13% today, but it still sux.

Yes, I agree this is a quite unlikely deal, but who knows?
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20571
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:30 pm

Polot wrote:
Revelation wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.

The bigger picture question to me is does it make sense to double down on this market space?

This is the market space that Mitsu is purposely doubling down on and wants to own since the E2-175 can’t currently compete in it, and there is no other viable next gen (well, current gen now I guess) competitor. They are adjusting the MRJ/Spacejet to meet scope clauses.

RJs are almost exclusively a US market thing, but it is still a huge market especially for a new brand to grow from. The CRJ + E170/175 has sold like 1500+ planes.

Yes, all strong points.

The fact that Mitsu has been at the MRJ for sooooo long ( ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Regional_Jet ) with only a few test vehicles to show for it, and is now contemplating more tinkering with it to make it scope complaint, makes one wonder if the result will be last generation, current generation or next generation.

JetBuddy wrote:
At the right price, it could be lucrative.

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.

Great points.

texl1649 wrote:
BBD senior mgt is simply sick of losing money on commercial aircraft. It's that simple.

I would guess MITAC got about the same price as Airbus did for the A220; a buck, or maybe even twice that, since on this one there is a functioning/mature production line at least (but only a year and a half or so of orders).

The final price will be interesting.

It's clear BBD wants out of commercial aviation.

The FG link above says it's pretty much a done deal.

Yet one wonders if either party will sleep on it for a day then wake up wondering WTF was I thinking...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
ODwyerPW
Posts: 1473
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:30 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:36 pm

Would a supplier like Spirit AeroSystems have the ability to take on a product line like the CRJ and become a full service Aircraft OEM? Or are they prohibited by the agreements they have with Boeing, Airbus, Mitsubishi, and RollsRoyce?

I know it's a crazy loaded question.... But just how far fetched of an idea is it?
learning never stops.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 12907
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:39 pm

alasizon wrote:
Unless they increase the height of the fuselage, it seems pointless. Adding different engines to the back of the CRJ will either make the section aft of the wing too heavy (and require extra weight/ballast up front) or make it to the point where the aft cargo bin becomes obsolete because you either can't get equipment up to it or anything into it. Even with re-working the engine pylon location a little bit, I still don't see how one would work out those issues.

Like they did with the GE Compass a few years back. The Compass is significantly heavier than the PW1200G.

Image

viewtopic.php?t=1422729
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9266
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:10 pm

keesje wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Unless they increase the height of the fuselage, it seems pointless. Adding different engines to the back of the CRJ will either make the section aft of the wing too heavy (and require extra weight/ballast up front) or make it to the point where the aft cargo bin becomes obsolete because you either can't get equipment up to it or anything into it. Even with re-working the engine pylon location a little bit, I still don't see how one would work out those issues.

Like they did with the GE Compass a few years back. The Compass is significantly heavier than the PW1200G.

Image

viewtopic.php?t=1422729

Who says they didn’t add ballasts/stretches up front? The Global 7000/8000 are not designed to hold and fly around with 75 passengers in the cabin while fitting into scope clauses. They have more leeway when it comes to any additional weight needed to make the engines work than the CRJ has.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3117
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:22 pm

keesje wrote:
Revelation wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
There is the problem of 2800# plus structure added to the aft end on the CRJ. The tail empennage would require redesign, too. The engineers at BBD I’ve chatted with say it’s not possible without ballast forward.

That's why Photoshop is so much fun, you can sweep all those inconvenient details under the rug.


The CRJ800 concept is stretched in front of the wing to compensate the higher dry weight compared to the CF34s, and the additional structure. Similar to e.g. MD90. Looking at CRJ900s and CRJ1000s changes to the tails are minimal. BBD already engineered the heavier GE Compass engines onto the tail for the Globals.


First, the MD-90 carried forward ballast which one of the problems with the MD-90 re-engining. Second, the tails from the Global and the CRJ are very different. Everyone thinks the Global is just an outgrowth of the CRJ, no it’s not. It’s a clean sheet design, new TC basis, the lot. The Passport, not the Compass, was put on the clean sheet G7500 and it had weight problems. The fuel savings, at today’s prices, isn’t worth it, there’s no business case. And, yes, Montreal has looked at it repeatedly.

BBD, since the first CRJ delivery, has delivered more bizjets than airliners. There are more Globals, Challenger 604/605 and Challenger 300/350 deliveried than the entire CRJ program.

GF
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3117
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:29 pm

keesje wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Unless they increase the height of the fuselage, it seems pointless. Adding different engines to the back of the CRJ will either make the section aft of the wing too heavy (and require extra weight/ballast up front) or make it to the point where the aft cargo bin becomes obsolete because you either can't get equipment up to it or anything into it. Even with re-working the engine pylon location a little bit, I still don't see how one would work out those issues.

Like they did with the GE Compass a few years back. The Compass is significantly heavier than the PW1200G.

Image

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1422729



It’s a PASSPORT engine, not a Compass. The aft section of a G7500 powered by Passports is hugely different than the CRJ or Globals, probably 18” deeper in the aft frames.
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SEU
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:49 pm

Does anyone know why? Aren't they trying to compete with the CRJ with the MRJ, sorry, Spacejet?
 
 
c933103
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:10 pm

Revelation wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's not weird at all. While the MRJ aims at making the CRJ obsolete, Mitsubishi clearly is struggling massively with the manufacturing logistics and that's where Bombardier has a lot to offer. Makes quite a bit of sense actually.

The bigger picture question to me is does it make sense to double down on this market space?

And if their plan is to end up with a non-Japan production line, will their government continue to be generous with support?

Or is this a blunt admission that they need non-Japanese assets to make progress in commercial aviation?

Or just bargain shopping?

Ironic since BBD sued Mitsu for stealing trade secrets, no?

There was idea to extend the MRJ to beyond 100 seats, competing with the like of ERJ195 or CS100, but as Boeing partnered with Embraer and Airbus acquired the Bombardier program for this market space, I don't think they will want to enter this arena. It is also hard to make a new plan on extending the aircraft design before making your existing design become success
This is a placeholder.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:33 pm

Babyshark wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
When Bombardier has to take a $500 Million Charge against the CSeries program after announcing the Delta order, it represented $4 Million per order for the program. That indicated that they couldn’t sell the plane for the cost to produce it. It’s not far off from the deferred production cost on the 787 program, but the big difference is that Bombardier didn’t have other high margin programs to boost cash flow while they went through ramp up and reduced production costs.

The Delta order was a desperation move, and signaled that production and engineering costs at Bombardier were too high to compete. It requires significant cash flow to be able to complete with the 737 and A320. Mature High volume rate airplanes have lower unit costs. I believe that The numbers imply that Boeing could build a 737-700 for less than the cost of the CS100. If that is true today, it’s not surprising why Bombardier wants to exit the business.

Having a strong competitor from the E170 and E175 didn’t help the competitiveness of the older CRJ series. The CRJ traces its roots to the 1970s Challenger business jet versus the all new 2000s vintage Embraer product.

I believe all of this can trace back to Bombardier deciding to stretch the original CRJ in the late 1990s whereas Embraer went for an all new plane with the launch of the E170.


^^^ All of that seems legit.

Still seems to me the CRJ200 was first, ERJ145 was better, CRJ700/900 were way better than both, E170/175 was way better than the 700/900, so BBD went all in with an ever better product with the thought if you build a better mousetrap people will eventually come.

They didn't come because thats not how the world works. They build an airplane nobody needed and they got the order book t
Even Delta didn't want the range, it's not the mission of 100 seaters to go that far, that's a corporate jet way of looking at things. Which from messing with the simulator for it, that's what it is, a corporate jet. It's not an airliner compared to the Boeing and Airbus cockpits. It's just poorly thought out but it seems to be how BBD does things.

Bombardier built the C-series with the hope that the US Majors would find away around the scope clause or? Just plain Risk a strike. Well? That dog didn't Hunt!!
Mitsubishi also saw that with the MRJ90 as well as Embraer with the E190. If No US Major orders the airplanes? Then they'll HAVE to make a deal around the world and they'll come in at a disadvantage into negotiations. They'll have to sell airplanes at a cost that's break even and hope they can get the money back on support. OR? Sell out to Boeing or Airbus as part of their Lineup. Either way? They Lose. OR? They can just go to ALPA? And ASK them what it would take??.
Because ALPA has the US Airline industry By the "NADS" at the moment. It might pass? But not right now! Nobody is willing to risk such a strike.
 
impilot
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:37 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
When Bombardier has to take a $500 Million Charge against the CSeries program after announcing the Delta order, it represented $4 Million per order for the program. That indicated that they couldn’t sell the plane for the cost to produce it. It’s not far off from the deferred production cost on the 787 program, but the big difference is that Bombardier didn’t have other high margin programs to boost cash flow while they went through ramp up and reduced production costs.

The Delta order was a desperation move, and signaled that production and engineering costs at Bombardier were too high to compete. It requires significant cash flow to be able to complete with the 737 and A320. Mature High volume rate airplanes have lower unit costs. I believe that The numbers imply that Boeing could build a 737-700 for less than the cost of the CS100. If that is true today, it’s not surprising why Bombardier wants to exit the business.

Having a strong competitor from the E170 and E175 didn’t help the competitiveness of the older CRJ series. The CRJ traces its roots to the 1970s Challenger business jet versus the all new 2000s vintage Embraer product.

I believe all of this can trace back to Bombardier deciding to stretch the original CRJ in the late 1990s whereas Embraer went for an all new plane with the launch of the E170.


^^^ All of that seems legit.

Still seems to me the CRJ200 was first, ERJ145 was better, CRJ700/900 were way better than both, E170/175 was way better than the 700/900, so BBD went all in with an ever better product with the thought if you build a better mousetrap people will eventually come.

They didn't come because thats not how the world works. They build an airplane nobody needed and they got the order book t
Even Delta didn't want the range, it's not the mission of 100 seaters to go that far, that's a corporate jet way of looking at things. Which from messing with the simulator for it, that's what it is, a corporate jet. It's not an airliner compared to the Boeing and Airbus cockpits. It's just poorly thought out but it seems to be how BBD does things.

Bombardier built the C-series with the hope that the US Majors would find away around the scope clause or? Just plain Risk a strike. Well? That dog didn't Hunt!!
Mitsubishi also saw that with the MRJ90 as well as Embraer with the E190. If No US Major orders the airplanes? Then they'll HAVE to make a deal around the world and they'll come in at a disadvantage into negotiations. They'll have to sell airplanes at a cost that's break even and hope they can get the money back on support. OR? Sell out to Boeing or Airbus as part of their Lineup. Either way? They Lose. OR? They can just go to ALPA? And ASK them what it would take??.
Because ALPA has the US Airline industry By the "NADS" at the moment. It might pass? But not right now! Nobody is willing to risk such a strike.

C series was never going to be a regional jet in the US. It was always designed to be a mainline plane. They were smart enough to know that 717 had no viable competition and was killed, leaving a big hole in that market. They saw an opportunity for a good CASM 100-150 seater, and one that wouldn’t poke the bear with the duopoly. This is way different than the 76 seat and regional” market. Also has nothing to do with alpa. No way in hell a 160 seat plane that flies 3300nm is even close to a regional jet.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: BBD CEO: "We are divesting out of commercial, focus on business aircraft moving forward"

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:19 pm

impilot wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
Babyshark wrote:

^^^ All of that seems legit.

Still seems to me the CRJ200 was first, ERJ145 was better, CRJ700/900 were way better than both, E170/175 was way better than the 700/900, so BBD went all in with an ever better product with the thought if you build a better mousetrap people will eventually come.

They didn't come because thats not how the world works. They build an airplane nobody needed and they got the order book t
Even Delta didn't want the range, it's not the mission of 100 seaters to go that far, that's a corporate jet way of looking at things. Which from messing with the simulator for it, that's what it is, a corporate jet. It's not an airliner compared to the Boeing and Airbus cockpits. It's just poorly thought out but it seems to be how BBD does things.

Bombardier built the C-series with the hope that the US Majors would find away around the scope clause or? Just plain Risk a strike. Well? That dog didn't Hunt!!
Mitsubishi also saw that with the MRJ90 as well as Embraer with the E190. If No US Major orders the airplanes? Then they'll HAVE to make a deal around the world and they'll come in at a disadvantage into negotiations. They'll have to sell airplanes at a cost that's break even and hope they can get the money back on support. OR? Sell out to Boeing or Airbus as part of their Lineup. Either way? They Lose. OR? They can just go to ALPA? And ASK them what it would take??.
Because ALPA has the US Airline industry By the "NADS" at the moment. It might pass? But not right now! Nobody is willing to risk such a strike.

C series was never going to be a regional jet in the US. It was always designed to be a mainline plane. They were smart enough to know that 717 had no viable competition and was killed, leaving a big hole in that market. They saw an opportunity for a good CASM 100-150 seater, and one that wouldn’t poke the bear with the duopoly. This is way different than the 76 seat and regional” market. Also has nothing to do with alpa. No way in hell a 160 seat plane that flies 3300nm is even close to a regional jet.


C Series / A220 will find its niche in time much like the A300 did. You are correct it never was going to be a regional jet in the US. Fortunately due to its capabilities, width, and the new economic realities of the deregulated US Airline market place, I could see disrupters making a play for the potentials it may offer.

Airbus has a good 737-700, 717 and A318/A319 replacement especially for any new well financed upstart airline with a new potential lucrative business model which does not need an aircraft with so much seat capacity.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
c933103
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:17 am

https://r.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO4572 ... STW001&s=0
Nikkei report the acquisition cost would be in the range of tens of billion Yen, aka hundreds of million USD?
This is a placeholder.
 
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:10 am

I really hope Bombardier can get a lot of money from Mitsubishi if this discussion results in a sale.

However, I still do not understand a bunch of aspects.
  • Bombardier is losing money with its CRJ unit, but Mitsubishi can generate profit with it. What's the logic here?
  • MRJ90 will get certified only in 2020 if everything goes as planned, it can still be delayed by another year. What's the point of acquiring a service network today?

Anyway, I hope the deal closes soon, but I still do not know the real benefit Mitsubishi can extract from these remains.

If it happens then it is a very good thing for Bombardier's stock. So, I cross my fingers.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2125
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:36 am

VV wrote:
I really hope Bombardier can get a lot of money from Mitsubishi if this discussion results in a sale.

However, I still do not understand a bunch of aspects.
  • Bombardier is losing money with its CRJ unit, but Mitsubishi can generate profit with it. What's the logic here?
  • MRJ90 will get certified only in 2020 if everything goes as planned, it can still be delayed by another year. What's the point of acquiring a service network today?

Anyway, I hope the deal closes soon, but I still do not know the real benefit Mitsubishi can extract from these remains.

If it happens then it is a very good thing for Bombardier's stock. So, I cross my fingers.


I'll start by repeating my own post previously about the possible benefits of acquiring the CRJ program:

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.

The reason for the acquisition might not be to sell more CRJs and to generate a profit from that frame itself. It could be just to take over all the infrastructure, knowhow, technology, patents, skilled workforce and customer rolodex.

Those are things that take years to build from scratch. Mitsubishi needs all of this.

2020 is just 6 months from now. 2021 is not that far off in the horizon. If they decide to buy the CRJ program, it will take months to finalize. So why not start now?
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:03 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
VV wrote:
I really hope Bombardier can get a lot of money from Mitsubishi if this discussion results in a sale.

However, I still do not understand a bunch of aspects.
  • Bombardier is losing money with its CRJ unit, but Mitsubishi can generate profit with it. What's the logic here?
  • MRJ90 will get certified only in 2020 if everything goes as planned, it can still be delayed by another year. What's the point of acquiring a service network today?

Anyway, I hope the deal closes soon, but I still do not know the real benefit Mitsubishi can extract from these remains.

If it happens then it is a very good thing for Bombardier's stock. So, I cross my fingers.


I'll start by repeating my own post previously about the possible benefits of acquiring the CRJ program:

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.

The reason for the acquisition might not be to sell more CRJs and to generate a profit from that frame itself. It could be just to take over all the infrastructure, knowhow, technology, patents, skilled workforce and customer rolodex.

Those are things that take years to build from scratch. Mitsubishi needs all of this.

2020 is just 6 months from now. 2021 is not that far off in the horizon. If they decide to buy the CRJ program, it will take months to finalize. So why not start now?


And you expect Mitsubishi to make money with the after sales service when Bombardier failed to do so?
What's the magic here?

Considering the fact MRJ won't enter into service in 2020 or 2021, what's the damn point of acquiring an after sales service TODAY? In addition I expect slow delivery ramp up too.

They'd better build a joint venture with someone else like with Skywest or Delta in the US .

The whole thing sounds rubbish to my ears, but I still hope it happens since it improves BBD stock price.
Please make it happen.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3117
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:36 pm

It’s pretty rare to see a CRJ at a BBD Service Center, most airlines do their MRO work or contract it to cheaper MRO companies than BBD.

GF
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9266
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:02 pm

VV wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
VV wrote:
I really hope Bombardier can get a lot of money from Mitsubishi if this discussion results in a sale.

However, I still do not understand a bunch of aspects.
  • Bombardier is losing money with its CRJ unit, but Mitsubishi can generate profit with it. What's the logic here?
  • MRJ90 will get certified only in 2020 if everything goes as planned, it can still be delayed by another year. What's the point of acquiring a service network today?

Anyway, I hope the deal closes soon, but I still do not know the real benefit Mitsubishi can extract from these remains.

If it happens then it is a very good thing for Bombardier's stock. So, I cross my fingers.


I'll start by repeating my own post previously about the possible benefits of acquiring the CRJ program:

- Massive support market. Lots of CRJs flying that need maintenance, spare parts etc. 1950 frames delivered per 31st of March 2019.
- Industrial knowhow and patents.
- Production lines and a skilled workforce.
- A complete product with orders on the books. 51 frames in the order book per 31st of March 2019.
- A fat rolodex with 68 operators / customers
- R&D costs already paid for.
- Option to further develop existing CRJ and modernize it.
- Option to shelf CRJ program and retool for MRJ production.

The reason for the acquisition might not be to sell more CRJs and to generate a profit from that frame itself. It could be just to take over all the infrastructure, knowhow, technology, patents, skilled workforce and customer rolodex.

Those are things that take years to build from scratch. Mitsubishi needs all of this.

2020 is just 6 months from now. 2021 is not that far off in the horizon. If they decide to buy the CRJ program, it will take months to finalize. So why not start now?


And you expect Mitsubishi to make money with the after sales service when Bombardier failed to do so?
What's the magic here?

Considering the fact MRJ won't enter into service in 2020 or 2021, what's the damn point of acquiring an after sales service TODAY? In addition I expect slow delivery ramp up too.

They'd better build a joint venture with someone else like with Skywest or Delta in the US .

The whole thing sounds rubbish to my ears, but I still hope it happens since it improves BBD stock price.
Please make it happen.

Who says Mitsu expects to immediately start making profits on the CRJ? Mitsubishi wants to enter and grow in the commercial aviation segment. BBD wants to get out. Losses that are unacceptable to BBD may be seen as acceptable by Mitsubishi as part of getting their foot in the door (eg acquiring a support network and the logistics involved rather than building one) and their brand out there.
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:08 pm

Polot wrote:
Who says Mitsu expects to immediately start making profits on the CRJ? Mitsubishi wants to enter and grow in the commercial aviation segment. BBD wants to get out. Losses that are unacceptable to BBD may be seen as acceptable by Mitsubishi as part of getting their foot in the door (eg acquiring a support network and the logistics involved rather than building one) and their brand out there.


Again, I think it is stupid to acquire a program to start a service network. There are many MROs out there.


For the timing and the amount of aircraft that are going into service in the next three years, it really is a waste of money to acquire the dying CRJ program.

This said, I really wish the deal is closed soon because it is good for my investment.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9266
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:14 pm

VV wrote:
Polot wrote:
Who says Mitsu expects to immediately start making profits on the CRJ? Mitsubishi wants to enter and grow in the commercial aviation segment. BBD wants to get out. Losses that are unacceptable to BBD may be seen as acceptable by Mitsubishi as part of getting their foot in the door (eg acquiring a support network and the logistics involved rather than building one) and their brand out there.


Again, I think it is stupid to acquire a program to start a service network. There are many MROs out there.


For the timing and the amount of aircraft that are going into service in the next three years, it really is a waste of money to acquire the dying CRJ program.

This said, I really wish the deal is closed soon because it is good for my investment.

Even with MROs you need a support network. You need to support the MROs.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:10 pm

Polot wrote:
VV wrote:
Polot wrote:
Who says Mitsu expects to immediately start making profits on the CRJ? Mitsubishi wants to enter and grow in the commercial aviation segment. BBD wants to get out. Losses that are unacceptable to BBD may be seen as acceptable by Mitsubishi as part of getting their foot in the door (eg acquiring a support network and the logistics involved rather than building one) and their brand out there.


Again, I think it is stupid to acquire a program to start a service network. There are many MROs out there.


For the timing and the amount of aircraft that are going into service in the next three years, it really is a waste of money to acquire the dying CRJ program.

This said, I really wish the deal is closed soon because it is good for my investment.

Even with MROs you need a support network. You need to support the MROs.

And that's what the OEM's do.
Unless the part is manufactured by BBD, or they hold the airworthiness of the part, the rest is handled by the actual OEM. And the parts that fail more frequently are the LRU's, not made by BBD.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2125
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:15 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Polot wrote:
VV wrote:

Again, I think it is stupid to acquire a program to start a service network. There are many MROs out there.


For the timing and the amount of aircraft that are going into service in the next three years, it really is a waste of money to acquire the dying CRJ program.

This said, I really wish the deal is closed soon because it is good for my investment.

Even with MROs you need a support network. You need to support the MROs.

And that's what the OEM's do.
Unless the part is manufactured by BBD, or they hold the airworthiness of the part, the rest is handled by the actual OEM. And the parts that fail more frequently are the LRU's, not made by BBD.


Even if we put the support network aside. They're still getting these things (depending on the agreement):

- Production lines and infrastructure
- Option to retool for MRJ
- Option to modernize CRJ or to shelf it
- Patents and technological knowhow
- A skilled workforce
- Customer rolodex and industry contacts

Some of these things can be extremely valuable. Other things are difficult to put a price on.

But what is common to these things is that it takes years to build from scratch. By acquiring these things through a deal, Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation could grow much faster.

If you look at the C-Series/A220, one of the things hindering sales is the slow production rate.

Even if the MRJ isn't ready until 2021, that's still just 18 months from now. Barely enough time.

I see mostly upsides for Mitsubishi in this deal - if the price is right. I don't think the CRJ itself is the gold nugget. It's everything else.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:30 pm

VV wrote:

Again, I think it is stupid to acquire a program to start a service network. There are many MROs out there.

For the timing and the amount of aircraft that are going into service in the next three years, it really is a waste of money to acquire the dying CRJ program.

This said, I really wish the deal is closed soon because it is good for my investment.


VV wrote:

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.

VV wrote:

The whole thing is incredible.

But hey, if the Japanese think it's good for them then why not.


VV wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
VV wrote:

Perhaps Mitac should consider another JV with Boeing or simply a build a consortium with Boeing and Embraer and propose a new name for the consortium.


So you're in favor of a monopoly in the below 100 seat market?

That would leave two Boeing JVs as the only viable options for a regional jet.


Why not. It's not a huge market.




Don't take this the wrong way, but you come across as salty in your posts about Mitsubishi leapfrogging from their current market position without Boeing/Embraer's help. Do you work for Boeing Brasil?
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 6457
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:25 pm

Flightglobal now has a lengthy analysis of the proposed buy-out issued.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rj-458742/
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:28 pm

VV wrote:
Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in me I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.

I don't think Mitsubishi cares about the money so much as the gained intellectual Property and access to Bombardier's Engineering Prowess.
That's why the Japanese need and want as that "know how" will aid their MRJ and give them a leg up in their OWN efforts Other than Distance? It's a damn smart move.
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:00 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Polot wrote:
Even with MROs you need a support network. You need to support the MROs.

And that's what the OEM's do.
Unless the part is manufactured by BBD, or they hold the airworthiness of the part, the rest is handled by the actual OEM. And the parts that fail more frequently are the LRU's, not made by BBD.


Even if we put the support network aside. They're still getting these things (depending on the agreement):

- Production lines and infrastructure
- Option to retool for MRJ
- Option to modernize CRJ or to shelf it
- Patents and technological knowhow
- A skilled workforce
- Customer rolodex and industry contacts

Some of these things can be extremely valuable. Other things are difficult to put a price on.

But what is common to these things is that it takes years to build from scratch. By acquiring these things through a deal, Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation could grow much faster.

If you look at the C-Series/A220, one of the things hindering sales is the slow production rate.

Even if the MRJ isn't ready until 2021, that's still just 18 months from now. Barely enough time.

I see mostly upsides for Mitsubishi in this deal - if the price is right. I don't think the CRJ itself is the gold nugget. It's everything else.

Well, I'm not sure it's all golden (text in bold => my analysis):
- Production lines and infrastructure => OK, unless they have to move;
- Option to retool for MRJ => didn't MITAC say they wanted production to be in the US, not Canada?
- Option to modernize CRJ or to shelf it => why "buy to shelve" when the product is barely selling anyway? And it's not selling due to it being outdated vs the competition.
- Patents and technological knowhow => yes, very valuable;
- A skilled workforce => very valuable too... if the production line stays.
- Customer rolodex and industry contacts => not sure of the real value of this. It's no secret who operates the CRJ's.
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:02 pm

Embraer should be concerned.. a tie-up between the MRJ and CRJ may produce a way stronger competitor than them separate
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:44 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Embraer should be concerned.. a tie-up between the MRJ and CRJ may produce a way stronger competitor than them separate


Of course they should. LOL
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:47 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
VV wrote:
Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in me I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.

I don't think Mitsubishi cares about the money so much as the gained intellectual Property and access to Bombardier's Engineering Prowess.
That's why the Japanese need and want as that "know how" will aid their MRJ and give them a leg up in their OWN efforts Other than Distance? It's a damn smart move.


But I do care about BBD stock price. I still own a lot of them.

And yes, Mitsubishi needs Bombardier's know-how. That's exactly why the have been building 787's carbon wings since several years now. LOL
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:47 pm

Seriously?
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:56 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s pretty rare to see a CRJ at a BBD Service Center, most airlines do their MRO work or contract it to cheaper MRO companies than BBD.

GF


Is Bombardier well reputed for good service?
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:04 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way, but you come across as salty in your posts about Mitsubishi leapfrogging from their current market position without Boeing/Embraer's help. Do you work for Boeing Brasil?


No I don't take it the wrong way.

  1. I do not see the interest of acquiring a whole dying program just to get the service network, in addition I am not even sure it is a good organization.
  2. MRJ90 will enter into service only in 2020 or 2021
  3. Considering PW's problems the delivery ramp-up will be quite slow
  4. Acquiring CRJ program also means acquiring all of its liabilities

Therefore I think it would be damn stupid for Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program, but it is up to them to decide. Perhaps they can find a hidden treasure in the program. I just do not see it.

Having said all the above, I would say the following.
  1. No, I do not work for Boeing Brasil Commercial, although I would be willing to accept a decent offer from them
  2. I would really love to see Bombardier selling its CRJ business to Mitsubishi at a good pricing because it would improve BBD's stock price. I still own a lot of BBD.B shares
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3745
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:45 pm

VV wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
VV wrote:
Well, it's good for my BBD.B stock.
So, deep in I hope Bombardier extorts a lot of money from Mitsubishi with this CRJ sale.

I don't think Mitsubishi cares about the money so much as the gained intellectual Property and access to Bombardier's Engineering Prowess.
That's why the Japanese need and want as that "know how" will aid their MRJ and give them a leg up in their OWN efforts Other than Distance? It's a damn smart move.


But I do care about BBD stock price. I still own a lot of them.

And yes, Mitsubishi needs Bombardier's know-how. That's exactly why the have been building 787's carbon wings since several years now. LOL

The Japanese have built Components for many years now.
But they haven't been building Airplanes, Integrating systems, nor flight testing commercial airplanes since the YS-11.
They have engineers but not so much the Talent to integrate the systems. If they Had? Then the MRJ would have Long been Done wouldn't it??
(Now LOL ABOUT that!!) Buying the Bombardier lineup would not only gain them the integration talent, but also help them with certification Knowledge which they DO have in Canada. What they might lose? Is overall control of the process if they move it to the USA as it looks like they propose to do. I think they should keep it close by in Canada and make it an international product rather than a USA Product. (all personal opinion) Though I DO understand why they might want to lt.
 
VV
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:16 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
VV wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I don't think Mitsubishi cares about the money so much as the gained intellectual Property and access to Bombardier's Engineering Prowess.
That's why the Japanese need and want as that "know how" will aid their MRJ and give them a leg up in their OWN efforts Other than Distance? It's a damn smart move.


But I do care about BBD stock price. I still own a lot of them.

And yes, Mitsubishi needs Bombardier's know-how. That's exactly why the have been building 787's carbon wings since several years now. LOL

The Japanese have built Components for many years now.
But they haven't been building Airplanes, Integrating systems, nor flight testing commercial airplanes since the YS-11.
They have engineers but not so much the Talent to integrate the systems. If they Had? Then the MRJ would have Long been Done wouldn't it??
(Now LOL ABOUT that!!) Buying the Bombardier lineup would not only gain them the integration talent, but also help them with certification Knowledge which they DO have in Canada. What they might lose? Is overall control of the process if they move it to the USA as it looks like they propose to do. I think they should keep it close by in Canada and make it an international product rather than a USA Product. (all personal opinion) Though I DO understand why they might want to lt.



Well, BBD screwed up heavily with the CSeries. Now big LOL on that.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:42 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Embraer should be concerned.. a tie-up between the MRJ and CRJ may produce a way stronger competitor than them separate


Perhaps it's just a bargaining chip to get Boeing to Mitsubishi's table again. :D
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

I like this idea of Mitsubishi taking over the CRJ line. The entire line needs to be rengined with the PW 1700G series.

I also believe the 200 series should be brought out of mothballs and rengined as well with the new ATMOSPHERE interior.

From a passenger standpoint, the CRJ far surpasses the ERJ planes.
 
AC77X
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:12 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
I like this idea of Mitsubishi taking over the CRJ line. The entire line needs to be rengined with the PW 1700G series.

I also believe the 200 series should be brought out of mothballs and rengined as well with the new ATMOSPHERE interior.

From a passenger standpoint, the CRJ far surpasses the ERJ planes.

I do really like the CRJ (its one of my favourite planes), but why would they re-engine the CRJ series and make a new generation if they are direct competitors with the MRJ and SpaceJet?
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:14 am

MRJ 70 has 3 seating options

80 at 29" pitch

76 at 31" pitch

69 with dual class with 30" pitch

MRJ 90

92 sardine style 29" pitch

88 at a 31" pitch

81 dual class with 30:" pitch for those in the rear

CRJ 700 from 66 to 78 pax

CRJ 900 from 81 to 90 pax

CRJ 1000 from 97 to 104 pax

CRJ 200 ... if btought back in service seats a max of 50, which also could have a first class section as well and would compete with nobody on the planet today


I would agree some overlap does exists with the exception of the 200 and 1000 series



'
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 3117
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:18 am

VV wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s pretty rare to see a CRJ at a BBD Service Center, most airlines do their MRO work or contract it to cheaper MRO companies than BBD.

GF


Is Bombardier well reputed for good service?


Good, but they can “nickel and dime” you and, for the bizjet line, nearly the only game in town. Different market than airlines.

GF
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos