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crjflyboy
Posts: 164
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:17 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Why update the CRJ with the MRJ just around the corner?
Why not offer the CRJ as a low capital cost model, and the MRJ as the low operating cost model?
There is room for both within every scope clause operation.

Reengining with heavier engines is possible for the CRJ, but the fuselage would need to be stretched forward of the wing to counter the weight aft.
It's too late to do that now.


MRJ is too large for many markets, their needs to be a refined 50 seater in the market … that does not describe the ERJ'S
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:18 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What is the A.net fixation with the 757 and the 50-seat RJ? To listen here, those two planes are the end-all and be-all of airliners


regarding the regionals, I think it's because some of us fly them so much. I seem to always be on a 737 or a CRJ200/Emb145. I do so much flying to secondary / tertiary cities.
learning never stops.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:55 pm

Then what? Airlines are going enough problems crewing more productive planes, fares will go up, pax count will down, markets will be dropped. It’s happened before.

The window mod was done on the 605, so that’s not big. Avionics could be done but might require moving components around for balance as was done on the 605 and Globals with the Fusion cockpit. The bizjets has the advantage of moving things like towbars.

Like I said, the line been shutdown for years, starting it up would be an investment itself.

There’s a whole lot of RJ flying that doesn’t need doing. Short hops to the hubs—GSO-CLT, MKE-ORD, those will be dropped unless there’s a lot of premium traffic.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:00 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
TOYOTA is a major investor in the MRJ program and hold many seats on their board of directors … TOYOTA keeps the same vehicles and continues to refine them over and over again … and again .. and again ...

MRJ does the same, with the exception that they don't seem to ship any to paying customers.
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The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 164
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then what? Airlines are going enough problems crewing more productive planes, fares will go up, pax count will down, markets will be dropped. It’s happened before.

The window mod was done on the 605, so that’s not big. Avionics could be done but might require moving components around for balance as was done on the 605 and Globals with the Fusion cockpit. The bizjets has the advantage of moving things like towbars.

Like I said, the line been shutdown for years, starting it up would be an investment itself.

There’s a whole lot of RJ flying that doesn’t need doing. Short hops to the hubs—GSO-CLT, MKE-ORD, those will be dropped unless there’s a lot of premium traffic.


I agree those routes are stupid … But how about MKE - PIT, MKE - MEM, CVJ - MKE, CVJ - MEM

Mitsubishi - Toyota have the capital to make it happen … if their is sufficient demand.
Last edited by crjflyboy on Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
T4thH
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:19 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
T4thH wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

.............



Skip the new engines, upgrade the cockpit, atmosphere interior, install CS sized winows at proper heights and allow operators the option of a first class section of either 3 or 6 seats upfront.


Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. 
However, in business we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:
1.Buying a stronger whip.
2.Changing riders.
3.Saying things like "This is the way we always have ridden this horse."
4.Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5.Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6.Increasing the standards to qualify as a dead horse rider.
7.Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8.Pass legislation declaring that "This horse is not dead."
9.Unilaterally declaring, "no horse is too dead to beat."
10.Blaming the horse's parents.
11.Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
12.Do a Cost Analysis Study to see if contractors can ride the horse cheaper.
13.Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
14.Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
15.Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.

https://www.tysknews.com/LiteStuff/riding_a_dead_horse.htm
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:21 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
MRJ is too large for many markets, their needs to be a refined 50 seater in the market … that does not describe the ERJ'S

If a 50-seater is what the markets need, maybe it's much better to ask LongView to upgrade and relaunch the Q300...refined or not..... :airplane:


T4thH wrote:
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

Perhaps we can add sending it away to where the Night King and the wights had gone! :ghost:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:43 pm

Devilfish wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
MRJ is too large for many markets, their needs to be a refined 50 seater in the market … that does not describe the ERJ'S

If a 50-seater is what the markets need, maybe it's much better to ask LongView to upgrade and relaunch the Q300...refined or not..... :airplane:


T4thH wrote:
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

Perhaps we can add sending it away to where the Night King and the wights had gone! :ghost:


The 200 LR has a range of 1500 miles ... the Q 300 is not the answer

https://www2.bombardier.com/Used_Aircra ... ations.jsp
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:15 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
The 200 LR has a range of 1500 miles ... the Q 300 is not the answer

I think economics will prevail.....

http://www.flythemrj.com/design/


The regular, single-class 76-pax MRJ70STD with a much modern and fuel efficient GTF engine has 1,020nm of range...the MRJ70LR will go up to 2,020nm...which is better :?:

Image
http://www.flythemrj.com/assets/images/ ... -seats.png



Depending on an airline's requirements, they could opt for a less dense 2-class configuration with 69 seats.....

Image
http://www.flythemrj.com/assets/images/ ... -seats.png


.....(or delete one 'Y' row for more legroom). I suppose those make the JapanCAN NipponJet more appealing to operators and passengers alike. :)
Last edited by Devilfish on Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
T4thH
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:18 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
Devilfish wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
MRJ is too large for many markets, their needs to be a refined 50 seater in the market … that does not describe the ERJ'S

If a 50-seater is what the markets need, maybe it's much better to ask LongView to upgrade and relaunch the Q300...refined or not..... :airplane:


T4thH wrote:
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

Perhaps we can add sending it away to where the Night King and the wights had gone! :ghost:


The 200 LR has a range of 1500 miles ... the Q 300 is not the answer

https://www2.bombardier.com/Used_Aircra ... ations.jsp

It is always best to verify first the direct competitors in this 50 seets market...To identify, if there is a market for a new 50 seets jet/plane.

So we have the ERJ Family and of them now (today) 1220 have been build and since Oct-2017 just 7.
https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-e145.htm

And than we have the ATR-42, which has been also accordingly sold with a total number of 476 produced planes till Jul-2017...or sorry, we have also up to date numbers, 09-Jun-2019, 477 have been produced...
https://rzjets.net/aircraft/?page=30&typeid=310
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:24 pm

Devilfish wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
The 200 LR has a range of 1500 miles ... the Q 300 is not the answer

I think economics will prevail.....

http://www.flythemrj.com/design/


The regular, single-class 76-pax MRJ70STD with a much modern and fuel efficient GTF engine has 1,020nm of range...the MRJ70LR will go up to 2,020nm...which is better :?:

Image
http://www.flythemrj.com/assets/images/ ... -seats.png



Depending on an airline's requirements, they could opt for a less dense 2-class configuration with 69 seats...

Image
http://www.flythemrj.com/assets/images/ ... -seats.png


.....(or delete one 'Y' row for more legroom). I suppose those make the JapanCAN NipponJet more appealing to operators and passengers alike. :)


TOL - ATL averaged 43 pax a flight on DELTA … How could the MRJ turn a profit ?
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:49 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
TOL - ATL averaged 43 pax a flight on DELTA … How could the MRJ turn a profit ?

Then DL should up their marketing game...or not assign an MRJ on the route.....it's only ~550 miles :!:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:56 pm

Devilfish wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
TOL - ATL averaged 43 pax a flight on DELTA … How could the MRJ turn a profit ?

Then DL should up their marketing game...or not assign an MRJ on the route.....it's only ~550 miles :!:


It's only one a hour drive to DTW from TOL
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:45 am

crjflyboy wrote:
It's only one a hour drive to DTW from TOL

Then drive...summer is here...hopefully the storms, rain and snow are gone too. :sun:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:04 am

crjflyboy wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then what? Airlines are going enough problems crewing more productive planes, fares will go up, pax count will down, markets will be dropped. It’s happened before.

The window mod was done on the 605, so that’s not big. Avionics could be done but might require moving components around for balance as was done on the 605 and Globals with the Fusion cockpit. The bizjets has the advantage of moving things like towbars.

Like I said, the line been shutdown for years, starting it up would be an investment itself.

There’s a whole lot of RJ flying that doesn’t need doing. Short hops to the hubs—GSO-CLT, MKE-ORD, those will be dropped unless there’s a lot of premium traffic.


I agree those routes are stupid … But how about MKE - PIT, MKE - MEM, CVJ - MKE, CVJ - MEM

Mitsubishi - Toyota have the capital to make it happen … if their is sufficient demand.

CVJ? Why does Cuernavaca airport need direct CRJ service from Milwaukee?
The last of the famous international playboys
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:28 am

Spacepope wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then what? Airlines are going enough problems crewing more productive planes, fares will go up, pax count will down, markets will be dropped. It’s happened before.

The window mod was done on the 605, so that’s not big. Avionics could be done but might require moving components around for balance as was done on the 605 and Globals with the Fusion cockpit. The bizjets has the advantage of moving things like towbars.

Like I said, the line been shutdown for years, starting it up would be an investment itself.

There’s a whole lot of RJ flying that doesn’t need doing. Short hops to the hubs—GSO-CLT, MKE-ORD, those will be dropped unless there’s a lot of premium traffic.


I agree those routes are stupid … But how about MKE - PIT, MKE - MEM, CVJ - MKE, CVJ - MEM

Mitsubishi - Toyota have the capital to make it happen … if their is sufficient demand.

CVJ? Why does Cuernavaca airport need direct CRJ service from Milwaukee?


My bad ... CVG
 
vfw614
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:18 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
From a passenger standpoint, the CRJ far surpasses the ERJ planes.


Can I get some of the stuff you are smoking :-) ? I think your view is quite exclusive....


It's wider, roomier, ability to offer first class seating, higher walk through height, dual overhead bins … quite exclusive ?

What are you smoking ?


For me, when comparing ERJ135/145 vs. CRJ100/200 and E170/190 vs. CRJ700/900 (all other comparisons are quite pointless), the Embraers win.

ERJ135/145 vs. CRJ100/200: That's an easy one. The CRJs feel terribly cramped, have misaligned windows and a 2+2 seating whereas the ERJ have 2+1.

E170/190 vs. CRJ700/900: Not as obvious, but for me, the Embraer has more of an "little airliner" feel whereas the larger CRJs still have that regional jet (albeit on steroids) feel. The cabin of the Embraer feels roomier because it is wider and higher (274 x 200 cm vs. 255 x 189 cm).
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:56 pm

The extra scrutiny focused on the GTF by the Raytheon/UTC merger may have some positive effects on the MRJ/BBD negotiations.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-458815/

Quote:
"Other PW1000G versions power the A220 – formerly known as the Bombardier CSeries – Embraer E2 series and under-development Mitsubishi MRJ regional jet."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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zkojq
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Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:23 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'm still not clear on what's wrong with the name? When Airbus bought into the CSeries, they named the Canada operations Airbus Canada. I don't see anyone concerned about Airbus Canada, so why Boeing Brasil?

Lots of people, including myself, kicked up a big fuss at the name change to A220. Lots of people, including myself, still refer to it as the CSeries.
First to fly the 787-9
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:31 pm

zkojq wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'm still not clear on what's wrong with the name? When Airbus bought into the CSeries, they named the Canada operations Airbus Canada. I don't see anyone concerned about Airbus Canada, so why Boeing Brasil?

Lots of people, including myself, kicked up a big fuss at the name change to A220. Lots of people, including myself, still refer to it as the CSeries.


Sure, but I'm discussing the corporate name and not the aircraft name:
Airbus Canada
Boeing Brasil
Tomato
Tomahto
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Mitsubishi to buy the CRJ program?

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:45 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
zkojq wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
I'm still not clear on what's wrong with the name? When Airbus bought into the CSeries, they named the Canada operations Airbus Canada. I don't see anyone concerned about Airbus Canada, so why Boeing Brasil?

Lots of people, including myself, kicked up a big fuss at the name change to A220. Lots of people, including myself, still refer to it as the CSeries.


Sure, but I'm discussing the corporate name and not the aircraft name:
Airbus Canada
Boeing Brasil
Tomato
Tomahto

Oh ok, you make a good point.
First to fly the 787-9
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:09 pm

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/new ... ercom.html

It's official.

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd (MHI) (TOKYO:7011) and Bombardier Inc (TSX: BBD.B) announced today they have entered into a definitive agreement, whereby MHI will acquire Bombardier’s regional jet program for a cash consideration of $550 million USD, payable to Bombardier upon closing, and the assumption by MHI of liabilities amounting to approximately $200 million USD. Under the agreement, Bombardier’s net beneficial interest in the Regional Aircraft Securitization Program (RASPRO), which is valued at approximately $180 million USD, will be transferred to MHI."
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:32 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.binc-20190625-mitsubishi-heavy-industries-to-acquire-canadair-re.bombardiercom.html

It's official.

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd (MHI) (TOKYO:7011) and Bombardier Inc (TSX: BBD.B) announced today they have entered into a definitive agreement, whereby MHI will acquire Bombardier’s regional jet program for a cash consideration of $550 million USD, payable to Bombardier upon closing, and the assumption by MHI of liabilities amounting to approximately $200 million USD. Under the agreement, Bombardier’s net beneficial interest in the Regional Aircraft Securitization Program (RASPRO), which is valued at approximately $180 million USD, will be transferred to MHI."


Congrats Mitsubishi and Bombardier.

From Canadair to Bombardier to Mitsubishi.

Will the CRJ keep it's name?
 
steveinbc
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End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:39 pm

Sad finality at Bombardier which has sold off its last commercial aircraft production rights to Mitsubishi. Interesting mix of buyers for their assets - Airbus, Viking, Mitsubishi.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... to-japans/
A319 320 321 330 340 380 B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 BAe1-11 Trident 1, 2, 3B Viscount Lancaster VC10 HS748, ATP DHC-1, 3 Dash-8 Dash-400 Shorts 330 360 Embraer Banderiante Brasileria 175 190 BAe146 Saab 200 DC-3 -8 -9 -10 MD-11 ATR42-72
 
Dominion301
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:40 pm

Well that's all she wrote for Bombardier's commercial aircraft division. Only biz jets going forward. What a turn of events since the launch of the CSeries to today.
 
berari
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:54 pm

The Japanese company will take over all the maintenance, support, refurbishment, marketing and sales activities for the CRJ but not its manufacturing operations, the companies said. Bombardier will build out the remaining CRJ planes on order at a site in Mirabel, Que., which is leased from Airbus. It was not immediately clear how many workers would be kept on once the last of those remaining aircraft are built as expected by the end of next year.



So what exactly is Mitsubishi getting out of this? It'll maintain, support refurbish existing aircraft, which would gain it customers while it tries to sell its own SpaceJet aircraft?
 
9252fly
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:55 pm

I personally think this is a good outcome for all parties involved. Mitsubishi gains a good foundation into the regional jet market with an existing support infrastructure that will buy them some time while they keep working on the MRJ. I can see the CRJ production line ending once the MRJ enters service.
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:03 pm

berari wrote:
So what exactly is Mitsubishi getting out of this?


One less competitor, and a market segment almost entirely to themselves.

The ERJ is old tech, the E2-175 isn't scope-compliant and thus ill-suited to the US market, and now Bombardier is leaving the market. This means the SpaceJet/MRJ is now the sole new frame in the regional jet sector, with the E2 and A220 fighting for the "small mainline narrowbody" market.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:04 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/newsList/details.binc-20190625-mitsubishi-heavy-industries-to-acquire-canadair-re.bombardiercom.html

It's official.

"Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd (MHI) (TOKYO:7011) and Bombardier Inc (TSX: BBD.B) announced today they have entered into a definitive agreement, whereby MHI will acquire Bombardier’s regional jet program for a cash consideration of $550 million USD, payable to Bombardier upon closing, and the assumption by MHI of liabilities amounting to approximately $200 million USD. Under the agreement, Bombardier’s net beneficial interest in the Regional Aircraft Securitization Program (RASPRO), which is valued at approximately $180 million USD, will be transferred to MHI."


Bombardier revolutionized the market with it's regional jet, and it saddens me to see the program sold. One thing I can say, Canada proved it can build a darned good airplane. While many here complain about flying on a CRJ, it seems like yesterday I was taking my first ride on one, and was absolutely blown away during that time period. I worked for Skywest, and was blown away when the first CRJ arrived in LAS. A few weeks later, I took a ride on one from SLC to EUG. It was a ride I will never forget. I wish Bombardier could have strived beyond the CRJ platform. The A220 in my opinion will be a huge hit, and will always be a C Series to me. One day, we will all be anxiously following the very last CRJ flight, and very last C Series flight here. Life goes on, but memories stay forever!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
mrbots
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:09 pm

berari wrote:
The Japanese company will take over all the maintenance, support, refurbishment, marketing and sales activities for the CRJ but not its manufacturing operations, the companies said. Bombardier will build out the remaining CRJ planes on order at a site in Mirabel, Que., which is leased from Airbus. It was not immediately clear how many workers would be kept on once the last of those remaining aircraft are built as expected by the end of next year.



So what exactly is Mitsubishi getting out of this? It'll maintain, support refurbish existing aircraft, which would gain it customers while it tries to sell its own SpaceJet aircraft?


They get the market of providing after sales support for an already established aircraft which is a pretty good money maker, the assets and network to support their own aircraft once released, and their foot in the door to the established customers in the RJ market to sale the SpaceJet. I actually see this as a pretty good move for MHI.
 
GoHokies
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:15 pm

9252fly wrote:
I personally think this is a good outcome for all parties involved. Mitsubishi gains a good foundation into the regional jet market with an existing support infrastructure that will buy them some time while they keep working on the MRJ. I can see the CRJ production line ending once the MRJ enters service.


Per the press release, CRJ production will end once the current backlog is exhausted next year.
 
leghorn
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:23 pm

Doesn't that mean redundancies in the high hundreds but they don't care about how the Government will react now?
 
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Revelation
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:33 pm

TFA says:

Mitsubishi will pay US$550-million in cash and assume liabilities worth about US$200-million for the Canadair Regional Jet (CRJ) program, the companies said in a joint statement Tuesday. Bombardier will assume liabilities worth about US$400-million, including part of the so-called residual value guarantees on the planes.

Hmm, -$0.75B to Mitsu's balance sheet seems steep for a soon to be out of production product line.

I think BBD did well for themselves, given they telegraphed their intention to get out of the commercial aviation business.

Yet if Mitsu was willing to pay, I guess it's a fair deal for both sides.

I guess BBD still owns and wants to sell the A220 wing factory in BFS, no?

Any word how the work force gets rationalized across Mitsu, CSALP, etc?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:54 pm

mrbots wrote:
berari wrote:
The Japanese company will take over all the maintenance, support, refurbishment, marketing and sales activities for the CRJ but not its manufacturing operations, the companies said. Bombardier will build out the remaining CRJ planes on order at a site in Mirabel, Que., which is leased from Airbus. It was not immediately clear how many workers would be kept on once the last of those remaining aircraft are built as expected by the end of next year.



So what exactly is Mitsubishi getting out of this? It'll maintain, support refurbish existing aircraft, which would gain it customers while it tries to sell its own SpaceJet aircraft?


They get the market of providing after sales support for an already established aircraft which is a pretty good money maker, the assets and network to support their own aircraft once released, and their foot in the door to the established customers in the RJ market to sale the SpaceJet. I actually see this as a pretty good move for MHI.


It makes Mitsubishi's SpaceJet much less riskier for potential customers. There is now an established support and sales network. Mitsubishi unlike Sukoi won't have to create one. It solves two problems. Bombardier doesn't have to invest in a new product to replace its outdate CRJ line.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: End of an era: Bombardier sells regional jets

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:10 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
It makes Mitsubishi's SpaceJet much less riskier for potential customers. There is now an established support and sales network. Mitsubishi unlike Sukoi won't have to create one. It solves two problems. Bombardier doesn't have to invest in a new product to replace its outdate CRJ line.


Well put, and the only logical driver to the acquisition.
I would think that $750 million of liability is completely reasonable to instantly gain an experienced workforce (trusted by customers) spread around key areas of the globe.

Its why Sukhoi is failing (SSJ wise) and C919 will too, if the support structure isn't created and executed to near perfection.

In fact - I wonder if COMAC might have been interested in CRJ for this very reason alone, and why BBD managed to extract as high a price from Mitsu.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:27 pm

leghorn wrote:
Doesn't that mean redundancies in the high hundreds but they don't care about how the Government will react now?

Those 700 or so CRJ machinists / assemblers etc are probably more of an asset than a liability.
I can see Mitsu being interested to acquire this expertise and set up some kind of operation close by in Mirabel.

I can also see Airbus being interested in hiring many of them (for the A220 production ramp up and the new "pre FAL") - particularly with the current flexible labor agreement.

I'm actually more afraid of a possible labor shortage (for the Montréal aerospace cluster in general)
 
queb
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:33 pm

GoHokies wrote:
9252fly wrote:
I personally think this is a good outcome for all parties involved. Mitsubishi gains a good foundation into the regional jet market with an existing support infrastructure that will buy them some time while they keep working on the MRJ. I can see the CRJ production line ending once the MRJ enters service.


Per the press release, CRJ production will end once the current backlog is exhausted next year.


Yes, about 29 a/c to deliver: 9 for Chorus Aviation, 10 for AA and 10 for Delta.
 
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PW100
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm

And MHI will not take over the CRJ production facilities. They will "hire" Bombardier to build and deliver the remaining backlog on their behalf (suggesting they will take no further CRJ orders).
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
Prost
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:01 pm

[quote=“F9Animal”]Life goes on, but memories stay forever![/quote]
Then explain me putting my keys in the refrigerator yesterday.
 
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william
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:15 pm

How many of us here are old enough to remember when the CRJ 50 seater debuted (remember the articles in ATW, and Airways mags)? And how it changed the aviation scene. And now the company that ushered in that era is leaving the not only the segment but market.
 
wave46
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:22 pm

william wrote:
How many of us here are old enough to remember when the CRJ 50 seater debuted (remember the articles in ATW, and Airways mags)? And how it changed the aviation scene. And now the company that ushered in that era is leaving the not only the segment but market.


The only inevitability in life is change. (except from a vending machine).

The market for regional aircraft just isn't what it used to be. Costs are going up and that makes regional operations more marginal by the day. Indeed, I imagine a reckoning will come for the future of the regional airlines - small airports/markets may see a precipitous decline in service as the days of cheap aircraft, fuel and labour come to an end.

I lament the end of the Canadian aerospace industry, but at least its swan song was a good one (CSeri...er....A220)
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:24 pm

PW100 wrote:
And MHI will not take over the CRJ production facilities. They will "hire" Bombardier to build and deliver the remaining backlog on their behalf (suggesting they will take no further CRJ orders).


So what did they buy then? An empty shell, customer lists, warehouses, parts?

Seems stupid to me.
At the current rate, MHI won't be producing the MRJ at a high production rate until 5 years from now.
They can offer CRJ's as a stopgap solution to stop US airlines from ordering E1's.
 
queb
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:29 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
So what did they buy then? An empty shell, customer lists, warehouses, parts?


Pursuant to the agreement, MHI will acquire the maintenance, support, refurbishment, marketing, and sales activities for the CRJ Series aircraft, including the related services and support network located in Montréal, Québec, and Toronto, Ontario, and its service centres located in Bridgeport, West Virginia, and Tucson, Arizona, as well as the type certificates.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:30 pm

That is that for Bombardier in commercial aviation. Sad to see.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:32 pm

william wrote:
How many of us here are old enough to remember when the CRJ 50 seater debuted

I definitely remember. Most did not believe in this regional jet concept. BBD first marketed them as point to point hub busters. (Never ended up used this way thought)

After LH Cityline, I also recall when Comair (RIP) bought a bundle.

Oh well, we had a good run - more than 1700 of all versions?
 
wave46
Posts: 157
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:33 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
PW100 wrote:
And MHI will not take over the CRJ production facilities. They will "hire" Bombardier to build and deliver the remaining backlog on their behalf (suggesting they will take no further CRJ orders).


So what did they buy then? An empty shell, customer lists, warehouses, parts?

Seems stupid to me.
At the current rate, MHI won't be producing the MRJ at a high production rate until 5 years from now.
They can offer CRJ's as a stopgap solution to stop US airlines from ordering E1's.


Intellectual property.

A support network for maintenance and sales.

Decreased competition, especially from any other potential bidder, such as COMAC.

Any remaining engineering staff with extensive background in aerospace.

Mitsubishi doesn't seem to be worried about spending bucks to get ahead, that's for sure. It helps when one has a generous parent.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:37 pm

The thread title can be changed to OFFICIAL
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:41 pm

wave46 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
PW100 wrote:
And MHI will not take over the CRJ production facilities. They will "hire" Bombardier to build and deliver the remaining backlog on their behalf (suggesting they will take no further CRJ orders).


So what did they buy then? An empty shell, customer lists, warehouses, parts?

Seems stupid to me.
At the current rate, MHI won't be producing the MRJ at a high production rate until 5 years from now.
They can offer CRJ's as a stopgap solution to stop US airlines from ordering E1's.


Intellectual property.

A support network for maintenance and sales.

Decreased competition, especially from any other potential bidder, such as COMAC.

Any remaining engineering staff with extensive background in aerospace.

Mitsubishi doesn't seem to be worried about spending bucks to get ahead, that's for sure. It helps when one has a generous parent.

Mitsubishi gain IP, customer access, and distribution.

An expensive buy in, but certain to be effective.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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Polot
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:45 pm

lightsaber wrote:
wave46 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

So what did they buy then? An empty shell, customer lists, warehouses, parts?

Seems stupid to me.
At the current rate, MHI won't be producing the MRJ at a high production rate until 5 years from now.
They can offer CRJ's as a stopgap solution to stop US airlines from ordering E1's.


Intellectual property.

A support network for maintenance and sales.

Decreased competition, especially from any other potential bidder, such as COMAC.

Any remaining engineering staff with extensive background in aerospace.

Mitsubishi doesn't seem to be worried about spending bucks to get ahead, that's for sure. It helps when one has a generous parent.

Mitsubishi gain IP, customer access, and distribution.

An expensive buy in, but certain to be effective.

Lightsaber

Let’s also not forget Bombardier is currently suing Mitsubishi in US over trade secrets. That lawsuit is probably going away too.
 
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SQ22
Moderator
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Re: Updated: Mitsubishi finalising deal for acquisition of CRJ programme according to FlightGlobal

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:49 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
The thread title can be changed to OFFICIAL


Title has been updated, but it would be more helpful to use the reporting function instead of a post, thanks.
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