phxa340
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Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:53 pm

Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:30 pm

Are you asking for comprehensive SMF/SJC/SAN-PHX/LAS/DEN? Southwest owns SMF-LAS with 9x tomorrow. AA and WN own SMF-PHX (their PHX hubs). WN and UA own SMF-DEN (their DEN hubs).
 
phxa340
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:38 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Are you asking for comprehensive SMF/SJC/SAN-PHX/LAS/DEN? Southwest owns SMF-LAS with 9x tomorrow. AA and WN own SMF-PHX (their PHX hubs). WN and UA own SMF-DEN (their DEN hubs).


Yea I get that, but WN has tons of existing flights on many intra-CA routes AS is currently flying on. By that logic - AS would shy away from SAN-SJC and SJC-LAX etc.

My point was more along the lines that if AS wants CA residents to choose them as their preferred carrier - do they need to start thinking a little bit more about markets that are right next door to be successful?
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:13 pm

Delta and now Spirit have added California-Vegas recently. I don’t think AS will anytime soon. Maybe down the road if they solidify a base, but these would be vanity routes that likely wouldn’t make money. They can send planes elsewhere that will actually make them some money back instead of bargain basement folks flying to Vegas or Phoenix.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:14 pm

phxa340 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are you asking for comprehensive SMF/SJC/SAN-PHX/LAS/DEN? Southwest owns SMF-LAS with 9x tomorrow. AA and WN own SMF-PHX (their PHX hubs). WN and UA own SMF-DEN (their DEN hubs).


Yea I get that, but WN has tons of existing flights on many intra-CA routes AS is currently flying on. By that logic - AS would shy away from SAN-SJC and SJC-LAX etc.

My point was more along the lines that if AS wants CA residents to choose them as their preferred carrier - do they need to start thinking a little bit more about markets that are right next door to be successful?


That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.
 
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ASQXSMFJETTER
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:35 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Are you asking for comprehensive SMF/SJC/SAN-PHX/LAS/DEN? Southwest owns SMF-LAS with 9x tomorrow. AA and WN own SMF-PHX (their PHX hubs). WN and UA own SMF-DEN (their DEN hubs).


Yea I get that, but WN has tons of existing flights on many intra-CA routes AS is currently flying on. By that logic - AS would shy away from SAN-SJC and SJC-LAX etc.

My point was more along the lines that if AS wants CA residents to choose them as their preferred carrier - do they need to start thinking a little bit more about markets that are right next door to be successful?


That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.




Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:46 pm

California is simply far too competitive for any carrier - especially a smaller one like AS - to cater to all travel patterns. WN is not only extremely strong in the intrastate realm but in the markets you mention (DEN, LAS and PHX) as well. However, WN still does not fly LAX-SEA nonstop, nor does it offer any service to Alaska or JFK. Every hub/focus city carrier has their strengths and weaknesses. This Californian (and I'm sure just about all others) certainly appreciates having a wide variety of choice when it comes to air travel. I maintain FFer accounts with AA, AS, B6, DL, UA and WN for domestic traveling. When headed abroad, I can often earn miles on these carriers or their foreign partners. I also set up a Norwegian FFer account when headed to Barcelona last summer. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to fly that wonderful airline again!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
williaminsd
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:49 pm

ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
phxa340 wrote:

Yea I get that, but WN has tons of existing flights on many intra-CA routes AS is currently flying on. By that logic - AS would shy away from SAN-SJC and SJC-LAX etc.

My point was more along the lines that if AS wants CA residents to choose them as their preferred carrier - do they need to start thinking a little bit more about markets that are right next door to be successful?


That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.


Yes this is anecdotal, but the mainline 738 Alaska is now using for the 4th, daily, SMF-SAN frequency in the evening was completely full when I took it last Thursday.

Admittedly a perfect time of year to introduce both increased frequency and mainline equipment, but this flight seems to be maturing quickly...
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:56 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
[Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


I get your point about WN being a bigger player, but AS has 20 destinations from SJC and 30 from SAN, they have a lot more utility from those markets than just shuttling people to SEA or PDX.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:02 pm

How much access does Alaska have to American Eagle out of LA? Since it's not connecting between AA and AS hubs, is it still pretty open between the two of them?

World access be stronger if AS were OneWorld Connect, and is that decision a part of the California strategy at AS?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:05 pm

Unfortunately its hard to really compare AS and WN.

On all these intra-CA flights, a large chunk, if not majority, are continuing legs. Most of Alaska's flights are point-to-point, or link to a hub.

SNA-SMF on WN may continue to PDX, GEG, SLC, etc.
SMF-SAN may go on to HOU/ABQ/PHX, etc.

So WN has been able to win the market, from Sh*ttle by United, because those flights don't rely on solid O/D. Sh*ttle focused on the O/D while linking to a super-delay prone hub (SFO) and LAX struggling with the ego-fight with CO/DL/NW/AA/etc.

The only way AS can really "battle" this giant is by doing the same.. such as doing SJC-LAX-DAL, for example. or SJC-LAX-SJD/GDL/ZIH, etc.

xx
 
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compensateme
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:06 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. .


You mean PSA, not United...
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:11 pm

PHX-SFO is a no-brainer. There are opportunities in SMF as well. The challenge is that they are holding the line on adding too much capacity right now, and the capacity that is added is competed for by SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, and SAN, etc. They've been smart to add smaller cities that WN currently over-flies, but they'll need to compete head-on plenty in the future. I'd suspect right now that the limited capacity growth and need to bolster the balance sheet post-merger are tying the network-planning folk's hands.
-Dave


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bob75013
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:14 pm

WkndWanderer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
[Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


I get your point about WN being a bigger player, but AS has 20 destinations from SJC and 30 from SAN, they have a lot more utility from those markets than just shuttling people to SEA or PDX.



and all of them require connections. Southwest does a bunch of that in LAS, DEN and PHX
 
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usxguy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:22 pm

And did a few mins of research about WN's connecting flights.

SFO-LAS today

1078 -> continued to RNO
2185 -> on to DAL, CMH, and eventually PHX.
2143 -> on to SAN
1478 -> Local
1519 -> PHX
1732 -> PHX

SJC-SNA
2111 -> LAS, MAF
1571 -> Orig. in PDX
503 - xcld
448 - Local
1963 -> LAS, DEN
866 and 1230 -> Local
1993 -> DEN
1232, 388, 935 -> Local
xx
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:27 pm

bob75013 wrote:
WkndWanderer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
[Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


I get your point about WN being a bigger player, but AS has 20 destinations from SJC and 30 from SAN, they have a lot more utility from those markets than just shuttling people to SEA or PDX.



and all of them require connections. Southwest does a bunch of that in LAS, DEN and PHX


All of which ones require connections?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
DesertAir
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:49 pm

I am a monthly flyer between SAN and SMF. WN runs about 11-13 flights a day. AS has three flights. This amount of flights probably serve their locals and gives another option when the WN flights are full, which is almost always. A note, Allegiant has twice weekly service from SAN to SCK (Stockton) about 50 miles south.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:54 pm

DesertAir wrote:
I am a monthly flyer between SAN and SMF. WN runs about 11-13 flights a day. AS has three flights. This amount of flights probably serve their locals and gives another option when the WN flights are full, which is almost always. A note, Allegiant has twice weekly service from SAN to SCK (Stockton) about 50 miles south.


I would imagine that, like WN, AS can and does route connections over SMF. That should help and perhaps allow the (I thought) fourth frequency. Regardless, WN is the 800 lb gorilla in California.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:04 pm

compensateme wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. .


You mean PSA, not United...


I thought of PSA also. However, UA did also have a large intra-California presence back in the old days. Western did too.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:06 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
compensateme wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. .


You mean PSA, not United...


I thought of PSA also. However, UA did also have a large intra-California presence back in the old days. Western did too.


PSA was great, but IIRC they pretty much put most stuff through SFO/LAX/SAN - or was that more near the end?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:10 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
compensateme wrote:

You mean PSA, not United...


I thought of PSA also. However, UA did also have a large intra-California presence back in the old days. Western did too.


PSA was great, but IIRC they pretty much put most stuff through SFO/LAX/SAN - or was that more near the end?


They had a fair amount of flights to SJC, OAK, SMF, BUR, ONT, and LGB also. A few flights to SCK and FAT also. PSA started serving SNA later in their life. MRY was added late too, along with out of state flights.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:21 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
compensateme wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. .


You mean PSA, not United...


I thought of PSA also. However, UA did also have a large intra-California presence back in the old days. Western did too.


PSA was the leader in building intra-California service. At the time of their acquisition, they had just over 50% of the market:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

After the acquisition, fares began to swell, prompting WN to expand service. By 1991, US had relinquished most of PSA's network and CA assets. By 1994, WN lead with more than 50% market share and US all but exited the intra-California market (just 4 flights LAX/SFO remained).

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Yes, yes PSA and Southwest have always been the 800 lb. gorillas in the intra-California market.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:26 pm

phxa340 wrote:
Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.


I agree with you and I believe AS does as well. I think we will see SAN-PHX/LAS within a couple of years and perhaps DEN and ORD as well. It's fairly obvious to me that, as you say, Phxa', AS wants to be SAN's "Go To" airline so they have to start these popular and necessary routes from a Focus City with, currently, 31 destinations. I expect to see that number increase. (BTW, SAN's routes are NOT all used for intra-CA flights -- 6 of the 31 are with-in CA, leaving 25 routes serving Mexico, Hawaii and east and north of CA!)

There was mention, when DL began flying SAN-LAS in 12/2016, that they did it because they were expecting AS to announce the route soon. But I expect we'll see the route served by AAG sooner or later. F9 just entered the market so the longer AS waits, the more an uphill battle they will have.

But, I believe AAG is all about trying to serve the destinations that it's growing number of customers want. This is the reason I continue to expect AS to start SAN-OAK and JFK at some point. Folks here on A.net always point out that AS is not interested in growing OAK but I counter with: the people is SAN want/need to travel to OAK -- that's the point.

Some have mentioned the competition by WN. This summer's schedule has WN flying 16 peak-day flights between SAN & SJC. And 15 r/t SAN-SMF. Both of these routes started with AS flying 3 daily r/t on EMJs and both routes are now at 4 r/t, including some mainline service. Of course AAG offers first class on all their flights and I'm sure that helps in several markets where no F/C, or little, exists. Obviously the overall capacity comparison is no contest but I do expect to see AAG continue to expand in the markets.

It's been stated that "SFO-PHX is a given." I ask, if so, why did Virgin never get around to it? But I do expect to see PHX connected with SAN, LAX, SJC and SFO fairly soon. We might also see PHX to SMF, SNA and perhaps FAT as the carrier continues to expand in CA. Probably the same treatment for Vegas, noting of course that they already serve SF and LA.

I also expect to see AS fly from SAN to RNO & TUS at some point, plus I do hope for a couple more intra-CA routes such as SBA and SBP. I also think there will be more medium- and long-haul routes coming to SAN...

bb
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:03 am

Their CA strategy was to buy VX, hold the FFs captive and use QX for p2p flying. Versus WN growing organically within the co straints of a single fleet type and UAs hubs in LAX and SFO.

I'd love to see numbers comparing AS WN and UA in California.
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tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:41 am

ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
phxa340 wrote:

Yea I get that, but WN has tons of existing flights on many intra-CA routes AS is currently flying on. By that logic - AS would shy away from SAN-SJC and SJC-LAX etc.

My point was more along the lines that if AS wants CA residents to choose them as their preferred carrier - do they need to start thinking a little bit more about markets that are right next door to be successful?


That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.


What the heck? SMF-SAN is a major money loser.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PHX-SFO is a no-brainer. There are opportunities in SMF as well. The challenge is that they are holding the line on adding too much capacity right now, and the capacity that is added is competed for by SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, and SAN, etc. They've been smart to add smaller cities that WN currently over-flies, but they'll need to compete head-on plenty in the future. I'd suspect right now that the limited capacity growth and need to bolster the balance sheet post-merger are tying the network-planning folk's hands.

They are holding the line because their margins are no good, so they had to reduce capacity growth to appease wall street.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:46 am

SANFan wrote:
It's been stated that "SFO-PHX is a given." I ask, if so, why did Virgin never get around to it?


I stated up-thread that SFO-PHX is a no-brainer. Not sure if that’s what you’re referencing but I certainly don’t think AS today is planning routes like VX did several years ago. AS has a decent following in PHX and I think there would be a lot of flow from the PNW over SFO that would help with the route.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:48 am

tphuang wrote:
ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.


What the heck? SMF-SAN is a major money loser.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PHX-SFO is a no-brainer. There are opportunities in SMF as well. The challenge is that they are holding the line on adding too much capacity right now, and the capacity that is added is competed for by SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, and SAN, etc. They've been smart to add smaller cities that WN currently over-flies, but they'll need to compete head-on plenty in the future. I'd suspect right now that the limited capacity growth and need to bolster the balance sheet post-merger are tying the network-planning folk's hands.

They are holding the line because their margins are no good, so they had to reduce capacity growth to appease wall street.


Of course. My hasty comment was meant to convey that they need to improve their financial performance, and now is not the time they’ll be able to get away with being adventurous.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jplatts
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:57 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.


Another big difference between WN and AS on nonstop routes between LAS and California destinations is that WN is connecting some passengers to destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and Southeast from California through LAS and vice versa.
 
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qfs
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.


Another big difference between WN and AS on nonstop routes between LAS and California destinations is that WN is connecting some passengers to destinations in the Mountain West, Southwest, Midwest, and Southeast from California through LAS and vice versa.


But at the same time AS / QX is connecting passengers to more Mountain West, including small markets like Missoula, Boise, & Bozeman
 
jplatts
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:39 pm

qfs wrote:
But at the same time AS / QX is connecting passengers to more Mountain West, including small markets like Missoula, Boise, & Bozeman


AS doesn't have nonstop service to LAS from MSO, BOI, or BZN. AS also only serves its SEA and PDX hubs nonstop from MSO and BZN.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:03 pm

jplatts wrote:
qfs wrote:
But at the same time AS / QX is connecting passengers to more Mountain West, including small markets like Missoula, Boise, & Bozeman


AS doesn't have nonstop service to LAS from MSO, BOI, or BZN. AS also only serves its SEA and PDX hubs nonstop from MSO and BZN.


I think that is basically what he said. QX is connecting passengers through SEA and PDX to those markets.
 
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msp747
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:31 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
jplatts wrote:
qfs wrote:
But at the same time AS / QX is connecting passengers to more Mountain West, including small markets like Missoula, Boise, & Bozeman


AS doesn't have nonstop service to LAS from MSO, BOI, or BZN. AS also only serves its SEA and PDX hubs nonstop from MSO and BZN.


I think that is basically what he said. QX is connecting passengers through SEA and PDX to those markets.


Not trying to derail this thread, since I understand the point you are trying to make, but BOI is a much bigger station for AS than BZN or MSO. It is flown by AS, OO, and QX, and serves several destinations other than PDX and SEA.
 
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itripreport
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:15 pm

They clearly missed an opportunity with the SAN-LAS market, now that Delta Spirit and Frontier have all successfully entered the market.

From what I’ve noticed here in SAN, Alaska focuses more on the north-south corridor while southwest is more focused on the west to east corridor. While Alaska also has the advantage of flying to airports which southwest would be unable to make economically viable
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:37 pm

msp747 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
jplatts wrote:

AS doesn't have nonstop service to LAS from MSO, BOI, or BZN. AS also only serves its SEA and PDX hubs nonstop from MSO and BZN.


I think that is basically what he said. QX is connecting passengers through SEA and PDX to those markets.


Not trying to derail this thread, since I understand the point you are trying to make, but BOI is a much bigger station for AS than BZN or MSO. It is flown by AS, OO, and QX, and serves several destinations other than PDX and SEA.


BOI is actually an interesting market in terms of analysing AS's approach to expansion and if you look at destinations excluding SEA and PDX you have:

- SAN - 1 daily - WN 1 daily
- SJC - 1 daily - WN 2 daily
- SMF - 1 daily - WN jumped into the market post AS starting
- GEG - 2 daily - WN also in the market with 2 daily
- RNO - 1 daily

WN is also in LAS - BOI and AS competed in most of the above with regional jets.

So looking at AS's California strategy what it looks like they've done is connect their major operation centres to each other within the State, add transcons to major East Coast business centres and then aim at monopoly or least competitive markets to grow into. So given the amount of competition you have at LAS and the very large WN presence it doesn't surprise me at all that AS doesn't fly there more.
 
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qfs
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:37 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:28 pm

itripreport wrote:
They clearly missed an opportunity with the SAN-LAS market, now that Delta Spirit and Frontier have all successfully entered the market.

From what I’ve noticed here in SAN, Alaska focuses more on the north-south corridor while southwest is more focused on the west to east corridor. While Alaska also has the advantage of flying to airports which southwest would be unable to make economically viable


This might not be relevant but up until this year WN was the only airline on the SMF-LAS route, but F9 & NK both joined recently.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:57 pm

itripreport wrote:
They clearly missed an opportunity with the SAN-LAS market, now that Delta Spirit and Frontier have all successfully entered the market.

From what I’ve noticed here in SAN, Alaska focuses more on the north-south corridor while southwest is more focused on the west to east corridor. While Alaska also has the advantage of flying to airports which southwest would be unable to make economically viable


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post? AS seems to be focusing on a pretty well rounded roster of destinations from SAN, not just North/South.

North/South corridor from SAN:
FAT
PAE
SFO
SJC
SMF
SEA
PDX
BOI
GEG
STS
MRY
PVR
SJD
SLC (ish)

East/West from SAN:
EWR
BOS
MCO
BWI
MCI
AUS
DAL
STL
MSP
ELP
ABQ
OMA
OGG
HNL
KOA
LIH
HDN (seasonal)
 
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ASQXSMFJETTER
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That ship has sailed. There has long been an airline for intra-California and short-haul from California. It used to be United. Now it's Southwest. On short-haul, frequency matters -- nobody wants to wait three hours for the next 80-minute flight. AS can't put up 3 or 4x daily successfully against WN's 9-11x daily on a route like SMF-LAS or SAN-PHX.

Alaska is the airline for Washington State, Oregon, Alaska, and a little SFO/LAX. If you want to fly SMF/SJC/SAN-SEA/PDX, sure, they'll do that. AS doesn't begin to have the resources to tackle WN in the broader California market.


Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.


What the heck? SMF-SAN is a major money loser.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PHX-SFO is a no-brainer. There are opportunities in SMF as well. The challenge is that they are holding the line on adding too much capacity right now, and the capacity that is added is competed for by SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, and SAN, etc. They've been smart to add smaller cities that WN currently over-flies, but they'll need to compete head-on plenty in the future. I'd suspect right now that the limited capacity growth and need to bolster the balance sheet post-merger are tying the network-planning folk's hands.

They are holding the line because their margins are no good, so they had to reduce capacity growth to appease wall street.



** actually its not, AS even upgraded this is a 4th flight a day on mainline**
 
tphuang
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:07 pm

ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ASQXSMFJETTER wrote:

Alaska can easily cover routes that wn only flies by itself out of smf. Alaska is doing so well in the smf to San with 4 a day all full. I bet Alaska can easily cover a smf to sna, or even an east coast.


What the heck? SMF-SAN is a major money loser.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
PHX-SFO is a no-brainer. There are opportunities in SMF as well. The challenge is that they are holding the line on adding too much capacity right now, and the capacity that is added is competed for by SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX, and SAN, etc. They've been smart to add smaller cities that WN currently over-flies, but they'll need to compete head-on plenty in the future. I'd suspect right now that the limited capacity growth and need to bolster the balance sheet post-merger are tying the network-planning folk's hands.

They are holding the line because their margins are no good, so they had to reduce capacity growth to appease wall street.



** actually its not, AS even upgraded this is a 4th flight a day on mainline**


SMF-SAN from Q4 of 2018
CityPair Dist Carrier Board AvgFare NSFare ConnFare% NS PerFlight # Flights LF Yield
SMFSAN 480 OO 31480 114.41 113.54 202.99 99.02% 76.00 527 78.60% 89.24
SMFSAN 480 WN 253592 119.5 119.19 234.73 99.73% 151.2 2087 80.35% 95.77

Those are terrible numbers for RJ. They chose to add a 4th flight, because they risk getting run off the route.

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