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AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:46 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
I'm seeing it return in May, so it might just be going seasonal.

Not seeing any additions for SJC.


Yeah, as I said in the other thread, very disappointing. Some of those cities have tech, you’d think they could support at least one flight on an E jet. And I believe RDM had applied for RDM-SJC as an EAS route. So AS won’t even fly it with a potential subsidy?


RDM is well served, so there's no way they'd be eligible for an EAS grant.


I thought I read about it in the latest EAS thread. I might be mistaken.

Nope, here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421963&hilit=Eas#p21557581

Redmond, Oregon
Applying to $600,000 grant monies for marketing, revenue guarantees and fee waivers to help establish new service to SJC operated by Alaska Air Group.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:00 pm

AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Yeah, as I said in the other thread, very disappointing. Some of those cities have tech, you’d think they could support at least one flight on an E jet. And I believe RDM had applied for RDM-SJC as an EAS route. So AS won’t even fly it with a potential subsidy?


RDM is well served, so there's no way they'd be eligible for an EAS grant.


I thought I read about it in the latest EAS thread. I might be mistaken.

Nope, here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421963&hilit=Eas#p21557581

Redmond, Oregon
Applying to $600,000 grant monies for marketing, revenue guarantees and fee waivers to help establish new service to SJC operated by Alaska Air Group.


That's not EAS. It is SCASD.
a.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1548
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:52 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:

RDM is well served, so there's no way they'd be eligible for an EAS grant.


I thought I read about it in the latest EAS thread. I might be mistaken.

Nope, here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421963&hilit=Eas#p21557581

Redmond, Oregon
Applying to $600,000 grant monies for marketing, revenue guarantees and fee waivers to help establish new service to SJC operated by Alaska Air Group.


That's not EAS. It is SCASD.


Ah, thanks, I thought they were the same thing.
 
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psa1011
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:44 pm

Great to see AS resume ANC-SFO
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:58 pm

WN732 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:

I was on Google Flights earlier and it was still showing. Already gone for me now.

Yeah, these cuts/changes seem to have all been made since the weekend: SAN-ABQ/OMA/STL now end Nov 4 while SAN-ELP/MCI/MSP end Jan 6. The new SAN-RDM flight begins Jan 7.

On Sunday's OAG thread none of these cuts or any of the adds coming later in 2020 appeared. I'll be curious to see what other network changes are reported.

bb


OUCH for ELP, they couldn't even make it on an E-Jet. WN and AA have that market to a stranglehold. I hope SEA sticks around.

We'll see what happens with SAN-ELP. WN started (well, re-started) the service in 3-8-2018 with one weekly r/t; the service remained that way until 1-7-19 when it was upgraded to daily service. Coincidentally, AS began serving SAN-ELP in Feb 2019... AS ends service in the market 1-6-20.

Three points: AS didn't really give the route a lot of time to develop/mature; it started only 6 months ago & ultimately will not even go for a year before being axed. Second, the SEA-ELP service appears to be staying the same, including apparently a 5 hour layover in ELP.... That's what the skeds now show. Third, I wonder what WN will do with SAN-ELP now that they have no competition? XL it? Reduce the freq of the service back to Sundays only? Leave it alone and enjoy the lack of competition? Since SAN is a large WN station, I'm hoping it will be the latter.

bb
 
WN732
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:10 am

SANFan wrote:
WN732 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Yeah, these cuts/changes seem to have all been made since the weekend: SAN-ABQ/OMA/STL now end Nov 4 while SAN-ELP/MCI/MSP end Jan 6. The new SAN-RDM flight begins Jan 7.

On Sunday's OAG thread none of these cuts or any of the adds coming later in 2020 appeared. I'll be curious to see what other network changes are reported.

bb


OUCH for ELP, they couldn't even make it on an E-Jet. WN and AA have that market to a stranglehold. I hope SEA sticks around.

We'll see what happens with SAN-ELP. WN started (well, re-started) the service in 3-8-2018 with one weekly r/t; the service remained that way until 1-7-19 when it was upgraded to daily service. Coincidentally, AS began serving SAN-ELP in Feb 2019... AS ends service in the market 1-6-20.

Three points: AS didn't really give the route a lot of time to develop/mature; it started only 6 months ago & ultimately will not even go for a year before being axed. Second, the SEA-ELP service appears to be staying the same, including apparently a 5 hour layover in ELP.... That's what the skeds now show. Third, I wonder what WN will do with SAN-ELP now that they have no competition? XL it? Reduce the freq of the service back to Sundays only? Leave it alone and enjoy the lack of competition? Since SAN is a large WN station, I'm hoping it will be the latter.

bb


Surely they can rethink that schedule. That 5 hour layover seems to be a bit much. Shoot they could fly back to CA, have a 30 minute layover and head back to ELP and then serve the ELP-SEA flight on time.

I really hope that SAN-ELP sticks around on WN. My very first flight was SAN-ELP on WN. I've done that route countless times, and it was a true loss when it was cut. Hopefully, it will stick around.

The fares are trash right now. I haven't kept up with the past trends but it definitely looks bleak. With two days notice you can go for $144 one way. 1 weeks notice and beyond is $69 on AS - literally every single day including the weekend until Thanksgiving. Southwest is matching AS on most days, and that at least shows that they are willing to defend ELP.
 
Philly65
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:11 am

What strategy? Basically retreating to a west coast regional airline.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2281
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:22 am

Philly65 wrote:
What strategy? Basically retreating to a west coast regional airline.


Nothing wrong with being in the top three in every major city on the west coast (except LAX which no one owns) with transcons to cities that can profitably support the service and service to nearly every mid-sized or larger city from mid-continent west.

I do think they over-estimated their ability to grow the California transcon markets but everyone decided to jump in on nearly every route or defend their turf. No different than AS defending their SEA and PDX turf. They're a business and their goal is a satisfactory return on their investment, satisfied shareholders and happy employees. Some work to do on all three and ending flying non-profitable routes or cutting back to seasonal is a smart move.
 
questions
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:46 am

phxa340 wrote:
Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.


You may find this presentation helpful:

https://alaskaairgroupinc.gcs-web.com/static-files/5d2396a9-9159-49d0-b8b2-8f23dd30fcaf

“Compelling Vision” ==> “The West Coast Favorite”
 
HanCholo
Posts: 34
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:13 am

SANFan wrote:
WN732 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Yeah, these cuts/changes seem to have all been made since the weekend: SAN-ABQ/OMA/STL now end Nov 4 while SAN-ELP/MCI/MSP end Jan 6. The new SAN-RDM flight begins Jan 7.

On Sunday's OAG thread none of these cuts or any of the adds coming later in 2020 appeared. I'll be curious to see what other network changes are reported.

bb


OUCH for ELP, they couldn't even make it on an E-Jet. WN and AA have that market to a stranglehold. I hope SEA sticks around.

We'll see what happens with SAN-ELP. WN started (well, re-started) the service in 3-8-2018 with one weekly r/t; the service remained that way until 1-7-19 when it was upgraded to daily service. Coincidentally, AS began serving SAN-ELP in Feb 2019... AS ends service in the market 1-6-20.

Three points: AS didn't really give the route a lot of time to develop/mature; it started only 6 months ago & ultimately will not even go for a year before being axed. Second, the SEA-ELP service appears to be staying the same, including apparently a 5 hour layover in ELP.... That's what the skeds now show. Third, I wonder what WN will do with SAN-ELP now that they have no competition? XL it? Reduce the freq of the service back to Sundays only? Leave it alone and enjoy the lack of competition? Since SAN is a large WN station, I'm hoping it will be the latter.

bb


I really wish AS would've let the SAN-ELP mature, but they thought otherwise. Only WN will have that route now. I previously said that WN would come out swinging against this new competition. Looks like WN's strategy worked. I'm curious if G4 extends the SAN nonstop in the summer when it's seasonal? WN will at least have some competition during the summer.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 pm

RDU/BNA-SFO cut permanently
SAN-BOS now 2x daily (not sure if that route was 2x daily last summer), starting May 21st
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
RDU/BNA-SFO cut permanently


That’s not very surprising. These routes have very little history with AS and even UA, and it’s not like AS is a well known brand in the South either. I wonder if SFO-LIH could be a good possibility, though?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
panam330
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm

SFO-PHX goes year-round in the spring, finally. Way overdue, IMO.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:17 pm

They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook. Not sure if this is new or returning.

They also posted a rather curious SJC route map with it and JFK is off it. Looked in May and it is off the schedule. It also shows SLC on the map. No scheduled flights for that. So not sure if that is a mistake or they’re bringing that back.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5087
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:31 pm

phxa340 wrote:
Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.

Neither AS or WN are premier California Airlines. They're Airlines that FLY within California and that's bout IT! To Be a California Premier airline? They must fly where Californians want to go that are NOT just in California, LAS, DEN, PHX, CHI (ORD or MDW) BOS. NYC (JFK-EWR-LGA), PHL, WAS (IAD-DCA-BWI),MIA-FLL. Then they can call themselves California Premier Airlines. Till then? They're "Also-Ran" Airlines.
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:42 am

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:45 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook. Not sure if this is new or returning.

They also posted a rather curious SJC route map with it and JFK is off it. Looked in May and it is off the schedule. It also shows SLC on the map. No scheduled flights for that. So not sure if that is a mistake or they’re bringing that back.


Looks like an old map. It still has EUG on it and that was cancelled months ago. I can't see that coming back. Will chalk it up as a mistake.
Airport Management - UND
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 780
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:09 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook. Not sure if this is new or returning.

They also posted a rather curious SJC route map with it and JFK is off it. Looked in May and it is off the schedule. It also shows SLC on the map. No scheduled flights for that. So not sure if that is a mistake or they’re bringing that back.


Looks like an old map. It still has EUG on it and that was cancelled months ago. I can't see that coming back. Will chalk it up as a mistake.


Also doesn't have SNA on it. JFK is ending January 6.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:20 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook. Not sure if this is new or returning.

They also posted a rather curious SJC route map with it and JFK is off it. Looked in May and it is off the schedule. It also shows SLC on the map. No scheduled flights for that. So not sure if that is a mistake or they’re bringing that back.


Looks like an old map. It still has EUG on it and that was cancelled months ago. I can't see that coming back. Will chalk it up as a mistake.


Also doesn't have SNA on it. JFK is ending January 6.


interesting, I had been seeing JFK-SJC as a loss leader for AS. Not too surprised they canceled it. Hard to have 3 airlines on that route.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:00 pm

SJC-SNA also appears gone next year according to some random late spring dates I pulled up. I don't think AS and partners were losing that many slots at SNA.
 
heretothere
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:54 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
SJC-SNA also appears gone next year according to some random late spring dates I pulled up. I don't think AS and partners were losing that many slots at SNA.


They went from 25 to 20 “slots” or avg daily deps, so it’s not too surprising that SJC had to go. Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:23 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.

Neither AS or WN are premier California Airlines. They're Airlines that FLY within California and that's bout IT! To Be a California Premier airline? They must fly where Californians want to go that are NOT just in California, LAS, DEN, PHX, CHI (ORD or MDW) BOS. NYC (JFK-EWR-LGA), PHL, WAS (IAD-DCA-BWI),MIA-FLL. Then they can call themselves California Premier Airlines. Till then? They're "Also-Ran" Airlines.


That sounds like somebody trying to rationalize his carrier's #2 or #3 position in the market, which has been sliding for two decades. Face it - an SFO flyer is more likely to be headed to Hawaii or LAX than Chicago.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:47 pm

I think AS wrongly expected they could successfully expand into markets that were well-served already by WN and UA. VX didn't have much of a strategy...they just wanted to be 'hip' and they drug their feet at expanding to the places people wanted to go other than JFK-California. AS has had to start from scratch in many markets that they already served from SEA. That made sense as you have the station already established but you might be in competition with others. It's going to have to be a long-term plan to succeed in California but AS might be on borrowed time as the pressure is getting stronger from every other carrier to see them fail.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:30 pm

I remember prior to the Delta incursion into SEA and the VX Acquisition Alaska was very interested on a big "intra-California" expansion. The intent if I remember correctly was to have Horizon pick up a lot of that flying and that's one of the reasons SAN was going to be a big focus. Of course their focus shifted with the DL expansion in SEA so I wouldn't be surprised, now that the dust has kind of settled in SEA to see a re-interest in "intra-California" markets.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:17 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook. Not sure if this is new or returning.

They also posted a rather curious SJC route map with it and JFK is off it. Looked in May and it is off the schedule. It also shows SLC on the map. No scheduled flights for that. So not sure if that is a mistake or they’re bringing that back.


Looks like an old map. It still has EUG on it and that was cancelled months ago. I can't see that coming back. Will chalk it up as a mistake.


Also doesn't have SNA on it. JFK is ending January 6.


Seasonal, or permanent?
 
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KLMatSJC
Posts: 780
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:25 am

AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:

Looks like an old map. It still has EUG on it and that was cancelled months ago. I can't see that coming back. Will chalk it up as a mistake.


Also doesn't have SNA on it. JFK is ending January 6.


Seasonal, or permanent?


I'm willing to bet it's permanent. It was consistently one of the lowest yielding routes in AS's network.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:11 am

panam330 wrote:
SFO-PHX goes year-round in the spring, finally. Way overdue, IMO.


Even with the combined AS/VX Bay Area FFer loyalty and SFO hub feed this service will have to contend with AA and WN (both of whom benefit from considerable hub connectivity beyond PHX) as well as UA (which can offer Arizona travelers seamless domestic *and* global connections via SFO). While it is a perfectly logical addition for AS, this will no doubt be a tough slug for AS.

LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook.


An interesting niche route opportunity. Probably a great choice considering all of WN's recent cuts in the California-Mexico realm lately...

KLMatSJC wrote:
JFK is ending January 6.


Wow. So, at SJC, AS will not just be cutting SJC-BUR and SJC-DAL (both victories for WN) but also SJC-JFK (a victory for DL) and SJC-SNA (another victory for WN)? Then again, WN did make some rather surprising cuts recently like SFO-DAL, SFO-PDX and SFO-SNA, so I guess you could consider this further evidence of a truce between AS and WN. What will happen to that JFK slot? Perhaps we could see AS try SAN-JFK, what with AA's longstanding SAN-JFK service suspended and WN throwing in the towel at EWR (and with that station closure, putting a permanent end to that carriers SAN-EWR flights).

Speaking of EWR, SJC will lose its AS service to JFK but keep the AS service to EWR?!? I thought most Californian travelers adamantly preferred JFK to EWR. Then again, UA did drop nonstop EWR-SJC service, so maybe somebody needs to be offering nonstop service between Silicon Valley and New Jersey rather than having all SJC-NYC service into JFK?

heretothere wrote:
Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.


Have you seen the fares in and out of STS?!? People that will gladly pay $50-$100 and more per bottle of wine (in many cases committing to 4 figure wine club shipments on the spot) just love the convenience of this hassle-free Wine Country airport. Once STS gets service out of the tent and into a beautiful new terminal I bet that airport will be even more popular...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1217
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:56 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Alaska Airlines over the last couple of years have been on a marketing blitz to be the premier “go-to” airline for Californians. As we have seen, they have grown SMF, SJC, SAN, LAX, SFO (debatable) to support this strategy.

However, I feel like there is a huge flaw in their strategy. CA and its residents are heavily tied to places like Phoenix, Vegas, and Denver. With the exception of LAX and SFO their spokes are all used for intra-CA flying. Does anyone else feel like for AS to succeed in attracting the CA market, they also need routes where Californians go that are not mid continent and transcon ? PHX, LAS, and DEN are the 3 huge holes I can think of, but I am sure there are more from SAN, SJC, and SMF and even LAX and SFO.

Neither AS or WN are premier California Airlines. They're Airlines that FLY within California and that's bout IT! To Be a California Premier airline? They must fly where Californians want to go that are NOT just in California, LAS, DEN, PHX, CHI (ORD or MDW) BOS. NYC (JFK-EWR-LGA), PHL, WAS (IAD-DCA-BWI),MIA-FLL. Then they can call themselves California Premier Airlines. Till then? They're "Also-Ran" Airlines.


That sounds like somebody trying to rationalize his carrier's #2 or #3 position in the market, which has been sliding for two decades. Face it - an SFO flyer is more likely to be headed to Hawaii or LAX than Chicago.


Top 5 domestic destinations from SFO in 2018:

Los Angeles
New York
Chicago
Seattle
Las Vegas
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5430
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:15 pm

heretothere wrote:
Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.

IMO, STS as a whole is a good market for AS, with, I believe, little or no competition on their STS routes.

I can say that STS-SAN has done well since it was started and will finally be going daily-double next spring. I think it's a good example of AS's "CA Strategy."

bb
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:57 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:

Also doesn't have SNA on it. JFK is ending January 6.


Seasonal, or permanent?


I'm willing to bet it's permanent. It was consistently one of the lowest yielding routes in AS's network.


Disappointing, but not surprising. It looks like AS’s expansions outside the west are done for good. Do you think EWR will go, too?

I’m surprised that UA couldn’t make EWR work.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:58 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
panam330 wrote:
SFO-PHX goes year-round in the spring, finally. Way overdue, IMO.


Even with the combined AS/VX Bay Area FFer loyalty and SFO hub feed this service will have to contend with AA and WN (both of whom benefit from considerable hub connectivity beyond PHX) as well as UA (which can offer Arizona travelers seamless domestic *and* global connections via SFO). While it is a perfectly logical addition for AS, this will no doubt be a tough slug for AS.

LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook.


An interesting niche route opportunity. Probably a great choice considering all of WN's recent cuts in the California-Mexico realm lately...

KLMatSJC wrote:
JFK is ending January 6.


Wow. So, at SJC, AS will not just be cutting SJC-BUR and SJC-DAL (both victories for WN) but also SJC-JFK (a victory for DL) and SJC-SNA (another victory for WN)? Then again, WN did make some rather surprising cuts recently like SFO-DAL, SFO-PDX and SFO-SNA, so I guess you could consider this further evidence of a truce between AS and WN. What will happen to that JFK slot? Perhaps we could see AS try SAN-JFK, what with AA's longstanding SAN-JFK service suspended and WN throwing in the towel at EWR (and with that station closure, putting a permanent end to that carriers SAN-EWR flights).

Speaking of EWR, SJC will lose its AS service to JFK but keep the AS service to EWR?!? I thought most Californian travelers adamantly preferred JFK to EWR. Then again, UA did drop nonstop EWR-SJC service, so maybe somebody needs to be offering nonstop service between Silicon Valley and New Jersey rather than having all SJC-NYC service into JFK?

heretothere wrote:
Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.


Have you seen the fares in and out of STS?!? People that will gladly pay $50-$100 and more per bottle of wine (in many cases committing to 4 figure wine club shipments on the spot) just love the convenience of this hassle-free Wine Country airport. Once STS gets service out of the tent and into a beautiful new terminal I bet that airport will be even more popular...


Wait, AS is dropping SJC-SNA completely?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:25 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
panam330 wrote:
SFO-PHX goes year-round in the spring, finally. Way overdue, IMO.


Even with the combined AS/VX Bay Area FFer loyalty and SFO hub feed this service will have to contend with AA and WN (both of whom benefit from considerable hub connectivity beyond PHX) as well as UA (which can offer Arizona travelers seamless domestic *and* global connections via SFO). While it is a perfectly logical addition for AS, this will no doubt be a tough slug for AS.

LAXBUR wrote:
They announced SJC-PVR on Facebook.


An interesting niche route opportunity. Probably a great choice considering all of WN's recent cuts in the California-Mexico realm lately...

KLMatSJC wrote:
JFK is ending January 6.


Wow. So, at SJC, AS will not just be cutting SJC-BUR and SJC-DAL (both victories for WN) but also SJC-JFK (a victory for DL) and SJC-SNA (another victory for WN)? Then again, WN did make some rather surprising cuts recently like SFO-DAL, SFO-PDX and SFO-SNA, so I guess you could consider this further evidence of a truce between AS and WN. What will happen to that JFK slot? Perhaps we could see AS try SAN-JFK, what with AA's longstanding SAN-JFK service suspended and WN throwing in the towel at EWR (and with that station closure, putting a permanent end to that carriers SAN-EWR flights).

Speaking of EWR, SJC will lose its AS service to JFK but keep the AS service to EWR?!? I thought most Californian travelers adamantly preferred JFK to EWR. Then again, UA did drop nonstop EWR-SJC service, so maybe somebody needs to be offering nonstop service between Silicon Valley and New Jersey rather than having all SJC-NYC service into JFK?

heretothere wrote:
Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.


Have you seen the fares in and out of STS?!? People that will gladly pay $50-$100 and more per bottle of wine (in many cases committing to 4 figure wine club shipments on the spot) just love the convenience of this hassle-free Wine Country airport. Once STS gets service out of the tent and into a beautiful new terminal I bet that airport will be even more popular...


Wait, AS is dropping SJC-SNA completely?


It appears so.
 
gmcc
Posts: 351
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:18 pm

Regarding SJC-SNA, saw somewhere that AS lost 5 slot out of SNA so from a networking planning stand point it makes sense. While not ideal you still can cover the market from SFO which is a hub that you paid 2.6 billion for and assigns gate like SEA does so you want to push as many flight through SFO to maintain or try to grow your number of gates.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:33 pm

strfyr51 wrote:

Neither AS or WN are premier California Airlines. They're Airlines that FLY within California and that's bout IT! To Be a California Premier airline? They must fly where Californians want to go that are NOT just in California, LAS, DEN, PHX, CHI (ORD or MDW) BOS. NYC (JFK-EWR-LGA), PHL, WAS (IAD-DCA-BWI),MIA-FLL. Then they can call themselves California Premier Airlines. Till then? They're "Also-Ran" Airlines.


Hang on, not wanting to derail this thread, but what ????

I will give you NYC (sort of), but out of the airports/cities you listed, which ones does WN not serve ?

Which airline carries the most passengers in California ?

Which airline carries the most domestic passengers ?

Which airlines (and I really caution you on this one as no matter who you pick you're going to get some negative replies) do you consider to be a California premier airline ?

Anyways, back on topic, so AS spent how much to buy VX ? So they could quickly build a dominant California airline and totally forget that WN wouldn't just roll over and play dead....Great move.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:48 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:

Neither AS or WN are premier California Airlines. They're Airlines that FLY within California and that's bout IT! To Be a California Premier airline? They must fly where Californians want to go that are NOT just in California, LAS, DEN, PHX, CHI (ORD or MDW) BOS. NYC (JFK-EWR-LGA), PHL, WAS (IAD-DCA-BWI),MIA-FLL. Then they can call themselves California Premier Airlines. Till then? They're "Also-Ran" Airlines.


Hang on, not wanting to derail this thread, but what ????

I will give you NYC (sort of), but out of the airports/cities you listed, which ones does WN not serve ?

Which airline carries the most passengers in California ?

Which airline carries the most domestic passengers ?

Which airlines (and I really caution you on this one as no matter who you pick you're going to get some negative replies) do you consider to be a California premier airline ?

Anyways, back on topic, so AS spent how much to buy VX ? So they could quickly build a dominant California airline and totally forget that WN wouldn't just roll over and play dead....Great move.


I’m pretty sure Alaska has publicly stated their intent was to be number two and had no intention of dethroning Southwest. Everything on here is complete success, failure, or merger. Nothing in between allowed. Tiresome.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:11 pm

SANFan wrote:
heretothere wrote:
Interesting that STS is holding on though. Must be a pretty strong market.

IMO, STS as a whole is a good market for AS, with, I believe, little or no competition on their STS routes.

I can say that STS-SAN has done well since it was started and will finally be going daily-double next spring. I think it's a good example of AS's "CA Strategy."

bb


AS has zero competition on its routes out of STS. The only competition would be people driving to OAK or SFO to fly somewhere. The flights aren't cheap but when you factor in parking, gas, bridge tolls and travel time to/from OAK or SFO, its a good deal. STS is a good example of their strategy for north-south flying.

It very well may be that AS will never be as large or broad ranging as DL, UA, AA etc but that doesn't matter so long as they do well enough on the routes that they fly. Their ROI is pretty good and are willing to cut routes that don't work out.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:18 pm

gmcc wrote:
Regarding SJC-SNA, saw somewhere that AS lost 5 slot out of SNA so from a networking planning stand point it makes sense. While not ideal you still can cover the market from SFO which is a hub that you paid 2.6 billion for and assigns gate like SEA does so you want to push as many flight through SFO to maintain or try to grow your number of gates.


Exactly. IIRC SNA's capacity cap increases in 2021, though it is very likely that demand for slots (from a number of carriers) will exceed availability. Should AS be successful in getting more SNA slots in the future, they could easily resume SJC-SNA service at that time.

Also consider the fact that WN is very strong and established on the SJC-SNA route, whereas it recently eliminated SFO-SNA service. Recent network changes in California as well as Texas seem to indicate a sort of truce between AS and WN. AS now has SFO-SNA, SFO-PDX and even SFO-DAL free of WN competition. WN, in turn, has seen AS cut routes such as SJC-BUR, SJC-DAL, SAN-DAL, and a host of services between SAN and heartland markets (ABQ, ELP, MCI, OMA, STL, etc.). That AS capacity has largely been shifted to markets that WN does not even serve, like ANC, MSO and RDM. These changes likely stand to benefit both carriers immensely.
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jplatts
Posts: 3782
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:55 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Recent network changes in California as well as Texas seem to indicate a sort of truce between AS and WN. AS now has SFO-SNA, SFO-PDX and even SFO-DAL free of WN competition. WN, in turn, has seen AS cut routes such as SJC-BUR, SJC-DAL, SAN-DAL, and a host of services between SAN and heartland markets (ABQ, ELP, MCI, OMA, STL, etc.). That AS capacity has largely been shifted to markets that WN does not even serve, like ANC, MSO and RDM. These changes likely stand to benefit both carriers immensely.


WN will still serve both OAK and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DAL after it drops DAL-SFO nonstop service. WN also will continue to offer 1-stop connecting service to SFO from DAL and most of the cities east of DAL that have nonstop service to DAL on WN through LAS, PHX, DEN, STL, or MDW.

There are many other destinations that have nonstop service to OAK but not to SFO on WN such as ABQ, ATL, BWI, BOI, HNL, HOU, OGG, MCI, LGB, BNA, MSY, SNA, PDX, PVR, RNO, SLC, SJC, SEA, and GEG.

Even though AS will be the only airline serving SFO nonstop from DAL after WN discontinues DAL-SFO nonstop service, AS DAL-SFO will still be in competition with AA DFW-SFO/OAK/SJC, UA DFW-SFO, and WN DAL-OAK/SJC nonstop service.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:32 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
gmcc wrote:
Regarding SJC-SNA, saw somewhere that AS lost 5 slot out of SNA so from a networking planning stand point it makes sense. While not ideal you still can cover the market from SFO which is a hub that you paid 2.6 billion for and assigns gate like SEA does so you want to push as many flight through SFO to maintain or try to grow your number of gates.


Exactly. IIRC SNA's capacity cap increases in 2021, though it is very likely that demand for slots (from a number of carriers) will exceed availability. Should AS be successful in getting more SNA slots in the future, they could easily resume SJC-SNA service at that time.

Also consider the fact that WN is very strong and established on the SJC-SNA route, whereas it recently eliminated SFO-SNA service. Recent network changes in California as well as Texas seem to indicate a sort of truce between AS and WN. AS now has SFO-SNA, SFO-PDX and even SFO-DAL free of WN competition. WN, in turn, has seen AS cut routes such as SJC-BUR, SJC-DAL, SAN-DAL, and a host of services between SAN and heartland markets (ABQ, ELP, MCI, OMA, STL, etc.). That AS capacity has largely been shifted to markets that WN does not even serve, like ANC, MSO and RDM. These changes likely stand to benefit both carriers immensely.


In many of the markets AS is adding flights, like STS, SBP and RDM, they are small enough to be WN-proof. It should be a good opportunity for AS.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:31 pm

AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18
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Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:35 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18

Thanx for reporting that. Certainly not an unexpected announcement. Be interesting to see if/how that affects their MRY-SAN route.

bb
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 pm

SANFan wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18

Thanx for reporting that. Certainly not an unexpected announcement. Be interesting to see if/how that affects their MRY-SAN route.

bb

The flights are in like totally different directions.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:12 pm

32andBelow wrote:
SANFan wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18

Thanx for reporting that. Certainly not an unexpected announcement. Be interesting to see if/how that affects their MRY-SAN route.

bb

The flights are in like totally different directions.

And they're currently on like totally different airlines too. SAN is served by OO while SEA will start out on QX.

Your point?

The inaugural schedule has both turns very close together so staffing at MRY will be for a very short period of time: the first arrival (from SAN) is at 12:38pm and the last departure (to SEA) is at 2:15pm. Smart logistics planning on AAG's part. Also, weather-wise, this is prolly the safest time of day to schedule flights at Monterey.

bb
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:19 pm

32andBelow wrote:
SANFan wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18

Thanx for reporting that. Certainly not an unexpected announcement. Be interesting to see if/how that affects their MRY-SAN route.

bb

The flights are in like totally different directions.

Probably not a big impact, but some connecting traffic can now have a choice. SEA vs. SAN doesn't make much difference for East Coast-MRY, and I am sure there were some SEA-SAN-MRY and PDX-SAN-MRY tickets sold.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5029
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:38 pm

SANFan wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Thanx for reporting that. Certainly not an unexpected announcement. Be interesting to see if/how that affects their MRY-SAN route.

bb

The flights are in like totally different directions.

And they're currently on like totally different airlines too. SAN is served by OO while SEA will start out on QX.

Your point?

The inaugural schedule has both turns very close together so staffing at MRY will be for a very short period of time: the first arrival (from SAN) is at 12:38pm and the last departure (to SEA) is at 2:15pm. Smart logistics planning on AAG's part. Also, weather-wise, this is prolly the safest time of day to schedule flights at Monterey.

bb

I can’t imagine the routes would effect each other much save for whatever transcons and Hawaii flights it connects to in SAN. that being said HNL/OGG is probably the biggest connectors out of MRY if I had to guess
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:24 am

Is there an Alaska Network thread for this year going around?
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:31 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18


Great news! MRY deserves more love, back in the 80s United, PSA and AirCal served Monterey with mainline aircraft to many destinations.

MRY is strategically situated a very short drive from many large communities south of San Jose not to mention Salinas, Santa Cruz and the Monetery Peninsula, with some good marketing MRY could be a great alternate to SJC and maybe could regain it's former glory.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2342
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:36 am

I wonder if AS would be willing to try SJC-IAD. I'm sure SJC-DCA would do well but AS doesn't have the applicable slots needed. I don't think SJC-WAS has service, other than WN seasonally on SJC-BWI. I know UA did SJC-IAD at one point.
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:04 am

USAirALB wrote:
I wonder if AS would be willing to try SJC-IAD. I'm sure SJC-DCA would do well but AS doesn't have the applicable slots needed. I don't think SJC-WAS has service, other than WN seasonally on SJC-BWI. I know UA did SJC-IAD at one point.

They have been generally decreasing the number of CA flights all over the network, so I doubt it.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
cschleic
Posts: 1818
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:12 am

ACCS300 wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
AS just announced MRY-SEA. Daily, year-round, ERJ-175 service beginning June 18


Great news! MRY deserves more love, back in the 80s United, PSA and AirCal served Monterey with mainline aircraft to many destinations.

MRY is strategically situated a very short drive from many large communities south of San Jose not to mention Salinas, Santa Cruz and the Monetery Peninsula, with some good marketing MRY could be a great alternate to SJC and maybe could regain it's former glory.


Great news for MRY. Way back when, when UA had nonstops from MRY to ORD and DEN, plus the usual SFO and LAX, there was speculation about whether they would fly to PDX / SEA but never did.

Anyway, the thing is, SAN and SEA don’t make very good connection points to MRY if there is a non-stop to SJC instead. As noted above, it’s not too far from MRY(exactly 90 minute drive if no traffic) and way cheaper. But depends on your origin or destination. Back in the day, SJC didn’t have as many longer routes as now so connections from MRY were more common.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5430
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Re: Alaska Airlines California Strategy

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:35 am

cschleic wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
MRY is strategically situated a very short drive from many large communities south of San Jose not to mention Salinas, Santa Cruz and the Monetery Peninsula, with some good marketing MRY could be a great alternate to SJC and maybe could regain it's former glory.

Great news for MRY. Way back when, when UA had nonstops from MRY to ORD and DEN, plus the usual SFO and LAX, there was speculation about whether they would fly to PDX / SEA but never did.

Anyway, the thing is, SAN and SEA don’t make very good connection points to MRY if there is a non-stop to SJC instead. As noted above, it’s not too far from MRY(exactly 90 minute drive if no traffic) and way cheaper. But depends on your origin or destination. Back in the day, SJC didn’t have as many longer routes as now so connections from MRY were more common.

I can certainly think of some connecting opportunities from MRY over SEA and SAN. In addition to Hawaii, via SEA you have all of Alaska, and Canada, and most of the airports in the PNW, inc PDX. Via SAN, you can prolly get to Mexico (depending on timing of the flights involved.) There might be a couple of transcons that could work from MRY via SEA or SAN.

But I don't think the point of MRY is connections. AS began flying SAN-MRY in June of 2012; it remained the only route out of MRY until this June when SEA is added. I would guess the majority of all pax flying between SAN and MRY were local O&D traffic (much of it military in fact.) I wouldn't be surprised if SEA is a similar situation.

bb

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