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DL717
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:48 pm

Sounds like IG needs Delta’s “Dusty” jet for parts delivery when they are needed in a pinch.

Yes, DL has a bunch of biz jets that run around delivering parts, callsign is “Dusty”. I’ve only seen the Lear’s, but there are probably others.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:08 pm

AA can sell a spare part or not sell a spare part. Absent a contract to the contrary, AA can do what it pleases with its spares. I really fail to understand the moral outrage. Yes, it might have been the "nice" thing to do for AA to sell Air Italy the part, but perhaps they needed it for themselves. We just don't know at this point, nor will we probably ever. In the end, it's AA's prerogative to sell or not to sell. It's their business, and only their business.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:30 pm

spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management. That's all. I think that was a bad management decision but I have no problem with people thinking otherwise.


It's not as simple as not selling a part and losing out on money. If they sold that part and made, lets say $25K on selling it, but then the next day had an AOG which needed that part and they didn't have it, they are going to spend much more on recovering that flight now. Then you would be up in arms about AA not being prepared for an AOG and costing so much money and that shareholders should know about it yada yada yada.

Bottom line: AA did nothing wrong. They did not have an agreement. They are under no obligation to give the part to anyone, nor sell it to anyone. As far as IG is concerned, that part might as well not even exist. I do not understand how you could possibly think AA has any duty to anyone to justify their actions here.
 
SaschaYHZ
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:33 pm

spannacomo wrote:
If AA had a good reason to refuse to supply the spare part, I would like to know it. Otherwise I think this decision was stupid at a level of business because AA had the opportunity to earn a fair price selling a spare part, and even more stupid at a more general level because people should not bear the grunt of air transport problems more than it is needed, and in this case it looks like it was not needed. Dimitrov said they would have helped AA in MXP if needed, this seems to me the correct approach. Make business and help people.


What if it was their last *whatever part it is*? Would be leaving yourself at risk if you sold your last part and couldn't get one for a few days. There could be many reasons why they decided to not let them use it, or sell it.
 
Junction
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:39 pm

ozark1 wrote:
Just another social media frenzy over an incident where the specifics are unknown.

I am in love with this quote. It literally applies to almost everything.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:39 pm

A lot of it is political. Air Italy is owned by an ME3 carrier. And there is an issue with them running an end around on US to Europe flights using IG.

And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:01 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
A lot of it is political. Air Italy is owned by an ME3 carrier. And there is an issue with them running an end around on US to Europe flights using IG.

And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.


It's probably doesn't have anything to do with that. AA lends parts out all the time, if it makes sense. I've been in the situation operationally where I needed a part that AA had, and I was handling a ME3 flight. Sometimes they can help, sometimes they can't. This is one of the times they couldn't.
 
DALCE
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:25 pm

spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management.


Oh boy, I wish the forum was still in the old 'paid user' format.......
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xdlx
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:46 pm

pilotkev1 wrote:
Probably something to do with LAA maintenance not being allowed to touch LUS, per union contracts, and vice versa.

Not sure about specifics, but I'd speculate SFO has contract maintenance for LUS equipment, and AA maintenance for LAA. Perhaps the part was stocked by contract maintenance instead of AA themselves.


Poor PARKER can not catch a break..... what a CLUSTER $#%# uck.... he got at AA
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:58 pm

spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management. That's all. I think that was a bad management decision but I have no problem with people thinking otherwise.

Okay, and suppose that was the last part that American had and they needed it for their own plane or their flight risks getting cancelled. Then what happens. They would still lose money and hinder people, only this time they lose even more money since it's their own flight.
Boof02671 wrote:
And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.

Which according to the link you posted, Delta said it was the last part of its kind that they had available, which they were keeping for their own operations.
Captain Kevin
 
kimimm19
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Re: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:03 pm

grbauc wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Maybe AA needed the part ? So much more to this story.



Have we not leaned that we are in the days of not investigating news but rather sensationalize news. Clicks and views matter more. Back in the day people held news organizations to some sort of standard and public opinion if negative towards a company could doom you. Example AA not wanting to go into Ch11 for fear of public retaliation. That generation is gone and they suffered due to waiting.


It's called Society of the Spectacle and Guy Debord came up with it long before 2019.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:19 pm

AirKevin wrote:
spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management. That's all. I think that was a bad management decision but I have no problem with people thinking otherwise.

Okay, and suppose that was the last part that American had and they needed it for their own plane or their flight risks getting cancelled. Then what happens. They would still lose money and hinder people, only this time they lose even more money since it's their own flight.
Boof02671 wrote:
And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.

Which according to the link you posted, Delta said it was the last part of its kind that they had available, which they were keeping for their own operations.

Do you actually think Delta would come out and say it’s because of the ME3?

Delta has been caught lying to the press before ie crew scheduling lost crews debacle
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:21 pm

xdlx wrote:
pilotkev1 wrote:
Probably something to do with LAA maintenance not being allowed to touch LUS, per union contracts, and vice versa.

Not sure about specifics, but I'd speculate SFO has contract maintenance for LUS equipment, and AA maintenance for LAA. Perhaps the part was stocked by contract maintenance instead of AA themselves.


Poor PARKER can not catch a break..... what a CLUSTER $#%# uck.... he got at AA

Did you even read the thread?

LUS and LAA mechanics can work either sides metal as long as they have gone to the Gen Fam class.
 
superjeff
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:22 pm

DALCE wrote:
spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management.


Oh boy, I wish the forum was still in the old 'paid user' format.......


I am pretty much in agreement with you. A couple of years ago, we were flying back to DFW on an AA 767-300 out of Maui. Had a mechanical and AA needed a part. Hawaiian still had their 767-300's and a major mechanical base in HNL 100 miles (150 km away) and wouldn't or couldn't provide a part. took a 3 day delay. So it happens. And most airlines are more than willing to help because the door swings in both directions.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:32 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Sounds like Air Italy didn’t have the agreement in place or AA didn’t want to sell. Both issues happen. Airlines are usually pretty willing to help each other out with spare parts since it is mutually beneficial. At JFK for example, Delta is known to be the parts warehouse for everyone. They have quite a lucrative business selling parts. I would expect UA to be the main parts broker at SFO

INFINITI329 wrote:
I'm confused why there are 330 parts for AA in SFO. Does SFO ever see AA A330 service?


Without knowing what the part is, it is hard to tell. AA probably has lots of A321 parts. It very well could have been a part common to multiple planes.


I'm wondering the same thing -- what sort of part would a ramp vehicle damage? When I think of ramp vehicle damage, I usually think of denting or putting a hole through a wing or the fuselage skin. Perhaps an AOA or other sensor?
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:36 pm

spannacomo wrote:
Flight IG938 from SFO to MXP scheduled on june 1st was delayed beacuse the aircraft was damaged by a ramp vehicle, causing the flight to be postponed by 36 hours and affecting many passengers.
In this interview just published on corriere della sera (in italian only)
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/19_giugno_05/air-italy-quindici-mesi-altalena-ma-ora-compagnia-stabilizzata-46b3a0d4-878c-11e9-b851-9738da749704.shtml
rossen dimitrov, IG COO, claims that AA had a spare part IG needed to repair the aircraft but they refused to supply it, causing a delay increase. He also claims that they would have helped AA if it had happened in MXP.


Your post is misleading. The article is a full analysis of the company' s recent past and the SFO episode is just stands as a single question in the whole interview scenario. It mentions AA refusing to supply the part but it does not mention any 36-hour delay, any damage inflicted by a ramp vehicle, nor the flight number.

The overall article focus is centered around company plans and aims at clearing any doubt about ME3 government subsidies.

The topic should be cancelled as it mentions facts not linked to the source.
 
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:43 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
A lot of it is political. Air Italy is owned by an ME3 carrier. And there is an issue with them running an end around on US to Europe flights using IG.

And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.


I doubt it was political. You have to remember the people making these decisions are not the CEO with an agenda, it's regular people behind the scenes who probably have no idea that IG is associated with any of the ME3. They probably looked in AA's part system and saw a high utilization rate or low stock and decided it would not be wise to sell/loan it.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:29 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
AirKevin wrote:
spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management. That's all. I think that was a bad management decision but I have no problem with people thinking otherwise.

Okay, and suppose that was the last part that American had and they needed it for their own plane or their flight risks getting cancelled. Then what happens. They would still lose money and hinder people, only this time they lose even more money since it's their own flight.
Boof02671 wrote:
And like I said DL did the same thing in the past to an ME3 carrier.

Which according to the link you posted, Delta said it was the last part of its kind that they had available, which they were keeping for their own operations.

Do you actually think Delta would come out and say it’s because of the ME3?

Delta has been caught lying to the press before ie crew scheduling lost crews debacle

And do the mechanics who have access to the parts know that?
Captain Kevin
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:33 pm

Know what? Mechanics don’t handle aircraft parts, that would be Stores/Material Services.
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:35 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Know what? Mechanics don’t handle aircraft parts, that would be Stores/Material Services.

And do they know anything about the ME3?
Captain Kevin
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:40 pm

AirKevin wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Know what? Mechanics don’t handle aircraft parts, that would be Stores/Material Services.

And do they know anything about the ME3?

Informed ones do. Mechanics don’t do the lend/lease. They have nothing to do with the decision, that comes from Borrowed Parts Material Services.
 
SonaSounds
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:54 pm

Looks like there is more about this event from passengers on social media:

Video in holdroom - https://twitter.com/sfbaybe/status/1135331312787525632

Hashtag of the flight - https://twitter.com/hashtag/IG938?src=hash

Olympic gold medalist Brian Boitano was on the flight as well - https://twitter.com/BrianBoitano/status ... 7700662272
 
Lootess
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:40 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And Delta has done the same thing.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL5N1FU50K

It’s probably because Air Italy is owned by one of the ME3.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2019/04/18/air ... riers-row/


Nope, even Alitalia is owned by Etihad and it did not affect the Delta JV. Ed would even have regular talks with them.
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:45 pm

alasizon wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
I'm confused why there are 330 parts for AA in SFO. Does SFO ever see AA A330 service?


Without knowing what the part is, it is hard to tell. AA probably has lots of A321 parts. It very well could have been a part common to multiple planes.


AA does send 330s to SFO almost daily from PHL so that makes sense as to why there would be a 330-specific part in SFO.



These are people who started following aviation in the last few years. They don’t realize that AA and US Air merged and US air has the A330
 
Tristarsteve
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:40 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:


Without knowing what the part is, it is hard to tell. AA probably has lots of A321 parts. It very well could have been a part common to multiple planes.


AA does send 330s to SFO almost daily from PHL so that makes sense as to why there would be a 330-specific part in SFO.



These are people who started following aviation in the last few years. They don’t realize that AA and US Air merged and US air has the A330


Well I live in Europe and would have no idea that AA and US are still separate airlines. It is hard to see from here.
Do the A330 mechanics still wear US overalls, and sit in an US crewroom?
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:40 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:


Without knowing what the part is, it is hard to tell. AA probably has lots of A321 parts. It very well could have been a part common to multiple planes.


AA does send 330s to SFO almost daily from PHL so that makes sense as to why there would be a 330-specific part in SFO.



These are people who started following aviation in the last few years. They don’t realize that AA and US Air merged and US air has the A330


No, the question was specifically asked about AA 330 service into SFO...not if AA operates the 330
 
spannacomo
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:03 pm

 
BTC
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:06 pm

spannacomo wrote:


No, not for spite, but
“for upcoming scheduled maintenance” but that even if they didn’t they wouldn’t have made the part available to Air Italy, because an airline has to be “an approved carrier and have a partnership with us to borrow parts, and we don’t have a partnership with Air Italy.”
as is quoted in the VFTW article.

Get a contract, get parts. Simple.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:45 pm

This whole thing is ridiculous. The media assault on AA is sickening. Doing the public no favors by making conclusions without proof.
 
Longhornmaniac
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:23 pm

spannacomo wrote:


That's not even close to what that article says. Moreover, the author of the post is making assumptions without backing. He started with a conclusion (the same one you have), and made a bunch of assumptions about why they did what they did.

It's the same unsubstantiated BS you're spouting.
Cheers,
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DDR
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:55 pm

spannacomo wrote:


Wrong, wrong, wrong. If you are going to post lies, then people will block you. No agreement means no parts transfer. Simple.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:02 pm

spannacomo wrote:

Gee, just like I said. And I had detractors
 
dreamliner8910
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:04 pm

spannacomo wrote:


Option 1: you have been reading a different article to the one you have quoted. The one quoted says that the part was for future maintenance requirements and no agreement in place

Option 2: you took on board what you wanted to hear. The last paragraph is the writers opinion and definitely not a fact.

Spannacomo: if stranger knocked on your door and said I need your car NOW, here’s some money...I very much doubt you’d hand over the keys. Just because you own something someone needs, doesn’t mean you need to sell it to them at a snap of their fingers
 
sandbender
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:50 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
spannacomo wrote:

Gee, just like I said. And I had detractors


AA did not confirm they did not sell the part to IG "because they were IG", they said they didn't sell it to them because they didn't have an agreement in place with IG... as countless others have said on here.

American offered on the one hand that they needed the part themselves “for upcoming scheduled maintenance” but that even if they didn’t they wouldn’t have made the part available to Air Italy, because an airline has to be “an approved carrier and have a partnership with us to borrow parts, and we don’t have a partnership with Air Italy.”


The author of the article then summarized it as:

In other words precisely because American is in a spat with Air Italy they won’t list the airline as an approved partner, and won’t lend parts. Let’s hope no American Airlines flight ever goes mechanical in Milan.


Which means the author doesn't understand maintenance partnership agreements and the fact that AA most likely has one in place at MXP and doesn't have to worry because they did what they're supposed to do. The author of the article is Gary Leff:

Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty.


In other words, he has no documented or claimed experience with operations and maintenance.

The bottom line is simple, it was their aircraft and it's ultimately their job to have the support infrastructure or agreements in place to support it. They didn't. Period. End of Story.
 
cvsirls
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:21 am

spannacomo wrote:
If AA had a good reason to refuse to supply the spare part, I would like to know it. Otherwise I think this decision was stupid at a level of business because AA had the opportunity to earn a fair price selling a spare part, and even more stupid at a more general level because people should not bear the grunt of air transport problems more than it is needed, and in this case it looks like it was not needed. Dimitrov said they would have helped AA in MXP if needed, this seems to me the correct approach. Make business and help people.


Huh???????? :?: Uhm... no. American has no obligation to help IG or its passengers. IG needs to file the correct paperwork. Setup up an agreement. Get a part (if available)! Simple!
 
lutfi
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:12 am

Yep. To loan a part:

(1) you need a bilateral agreement between the airlines. There are IATA standard forms - not hard to do and can be put in place very quickly in an AOG situation.

(2) The airline making the loan must say yes. Sometime they won't

For example, an airline will have a 'float' of spares based on statistics. They will then have rules, For example

For part X, as long as I have more than float in stock lend, Do not lend if doing so takes me below float number

For part Y, lend out unless that would bring stock to zero,

For part Z. as I know I have a whole bunch of maintenance requirements coming up, do not lend out.

Or, the airline requesting the loan may be on bad debt black list. For example, doubt anyone was loaning parts to 9W (Jet) in the last few months of their existance
 
wjcandee
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:36 am

Lutfi, a knowledgeable and succinct post that made my earlier point much better than I did. This ends up being a silly thread: one very upset person -- who concededly has no dog in the hunt except apparently he's an Air Italy fan -- continuing to pound away about the issue, misrepresenting his sources, and refusing to concede the points that people actually in the business are making to him.
 
spannacomo
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:03 am

lutfi wrote:
Yep. To loan a part:

(1) you need a bilateral agreement between the airlines. There are IATA standard forms - not hard to do and can be put in place very quickly in an AOG situation.

The point in discussion is that AA, according to IG COO, are refusing to have an agreement with IG. Is this decision fair for the business and for the people involved in a mechanical failure? I don't think so.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:25 am

spannacomo wrote:
lutfi wrote:
Yep. To loan a part:

(1) you need a bilateral agreement between the airlines. There are IATA standard forms - not hard to do and can be put in place very quickly in an AOG situation.

The point in discussion is that AA, according to IG COO, are refusing to have an agreement with IG. Is this decision fair for the business and for the people involved in a mechanical failure? I don't think so.



Oh come on! This is childish and stupid now. Guess what, if AA decided, perhaps after all this pointless negative publicity, they don’t want to have an agreement with IG - they can. Air Italy is small fry still, barely a long haul operation and definitely not a global carrier as such. Air Italy may be butthurt about it, but grow-up, get your IATA agreements on place to avoid a repeat in the furure, and shut up. Business if free commerce in most of the world. One company decides it does not want to work with another all the time. I doubt that was actually the case here either, but either way, IG needs to stop throwing their QR toys out of their pram, given what a small airline they are especially.
 
lutfi
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:31 am

Hawaii also fly A330 to SFO. Should they also be included in your complaint?

And, life isn't fair. There is no law or obligation saying that airlines must have loan agreements. Normally, they are on bilateral basis so that airlines can reduce stock by 'pooling' with each other. But in this case, AA needs nothing from IG as they fly B777 to MXP, and will have agreements with other B777 operators there,

Plus, Airbus or AAR or Delta Tech Ops or AFI or LHT will all be happy (for a price) to supply spare parts for A330, worldwide, with guaranteed service levels. If IG is too cheap to sign up for such a service, how is that fair for their passengers?
 
propmusic
Posts: 8
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Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:30 am

At the airline I worked at, we did have a mutually beneficial relationship with a competitor for many parts. However when it came to SERIALIZED parts this was a no no. A number of issues arise with documentation and other installed, removed and log issues could create a problem that was best avoided. Lead times for obtaining a replacement from the manufacturer are also an issue if it was the last one and the min. quantity reorder point is 1. Not as simple as the headlines might imply.
 
slowrambler
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:07 pm

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:04 am

spannacomo wrote:


I would love to know what exactly American did to Gary Leff that caused his animosity towards AA. He literally says "IG is part owned by QR, which partially owns BA and IB as well as other oneworld airlines, therefore if American doesn't have an agreement with IG it must be spite!" as if this is any kind of argument.

The headline here really should be that Air Italy so badly manages its maintenance logistics and crew schedules that not being able to get a specific part from one specific other airline (at an outstation for both of them) - with whom they do not even have an agreement to get such parts - can cause a 35 hour delay. This is clearly not an operation whose reliability should be trusted. But yeah, let's make it about how cruel and nasty American is.
 
strfyr51
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:10 am

superjeff wrote:
DALCE wrote:
spannacomo wrote:
I was not personally affected but I think those who were affected have the right to know that AA had the possibility to make money by selling a spare part AND help people, while they chose to lose money and hinder people. Shareholders also have the right to know it, so they can evaluate AA's management.


Oh boy, I wish the forum was still in the old 'paid user' format.......


I am pretty much in agreement with you. A couple of years ago, we were flying back to DFW on an AA 767-300 out of Maui. Had a mechanical and AA needed a part. Hawaiian still had their 767-300's and a major mechanical base in HNL 100 miles (150 km away) and wouldn't or couldn't provide a part. took a 3 day delay. So it happens. And most airlines are and we're more than willing to help because the door swings in both directions.

it took a 3 day delay? Are you Sure? United has huge parts supply in SFO . And we're just down the taxiway from American at SFO, I know for Sure we've lent American parts before and would do so again upon request. and for a 763? We can supply everything but an Engine as we fly PWA and they fly GE. So? What kind of part did they Need?
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4985
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:21 am

this entire topic is pretty Silly! Yeah American flies A330's but Then? Airbus HAS a warehouse in the USA and they can drop ship a part in Hours. Jeez! So where did the part come from? Spain? YGBSM!
 
User avatar
9MMPQ
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:30 am

Wasn't this thread locked ?

Suppose AA went tech after giving their last spare part on stock at station to IG ? That would have looked bad with much more costs for AA down the line. Wonder what OP would say if he were on such a flight. I can just imagine ''AA gave away their last spare part and now i am delayed more & inconvenienced''.

But we have no idea of the specifics between AA & IG and will likely never know. But there can be dozens of valid reasons why parts are not always given out. It's part of the business and there's no such thing as making quick money. I'm sure AA wil have had valid reasons to keep the part on stock if this entire story is 100 % true. Let it go.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
D L X
Posts: 12676
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:07 pm

spannacomo wrote:



Congratulations. You got me to read an article by Gary Leff.

Leff wrote "spite." He is wrong. Gary Leff writes sensationalist garbage that cannot be taken as fact, and relies on his readership not knowing the difference.

Even Leff showed in his own article that AA didn't give IG the part because they don't have an agreement with IG. So, how is this AA's fault?
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:41 am

strfyr51 wrote:
superjeff wrote:
DALCE wrote:

Oh boy, I wish the forum was still in the old 'paid user' format.......


I am pretty much in agreement with you. A couple of years ago, we were flying back to DFW on an AA 767-300 out of Maui. Had a mechanical and AA needed a part. Hawaiian still had their 767-300's and a major mechanical base in HNL 100 miles (150 km away) and wouldn't or couldn't provide a part. took a 3 day delay. So it happens. And most airlines are and we're more than willing to help because the door swings in both directions.

it took a 3 day delay? Are you Sure? United has huge parts supply in SFO . And we're just down the taxiway from American at SFO, I know for Sure we've lent American parts before and would do so again upon request. and for a 763? We can supply everything but an Engine as we fly PWA and they fly GE. So? What kind of part did they Need?[/
Very sure. Was supposed to fly back OGG-DFW on Saturday after Thanksgiving, then on a business trip to London on Monday. They claimed they couldn't get a part (probably could have gotten one from Hawaiian in HNL; said they were flying one in from LAX which was not accurate. On the third day, we ended up getting rerouted OGG-KOA(HA)-LAX-DFW(AA) and I had to postpone my business trip. And yes, they should have been able to at least be honest, but we were lied to (they had to bring police to the gate the passengers were so upset.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:35 am

United doesn’t fly the A330, and airbus has a huge distribution center near IAD.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4985
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:04 am

Unless they have a specific agreement that grants them the right to American's last stocked AOG part? Then AA is under NO obligation to surrender said part,
We have at times had this happen at United where an airline needed a part and we couldn't lend it to them as we would not have been able to support our OWN Fleet. But on a number of occasions we're robbed one of our own airplanes to support Air Force 1, and the C-32 VIP fleet.
we've changed engines on the C-32's and left our own airplanes to sit while we did it. ( We also built and Maintained the C32's engines in our shops as well as the C17 engnes and cowlings, ) But! That's by agreement! Not every airline HAS such an agreement, We have on occasion replaced engines for a number of airlines that flew what we had with the PW 2037, the PW 4060., PW4090 CFM-56 and the V2500. We now fly the GE90 and the Rolls as well but being retired I have no Idea whether we even build them in our shops at SFO,
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Media: AA refuses to supply IG with a spare part causing delays in SFO

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:01 am

Ah yes, the air start hose whipping around like a fire hose smashing the airplane. Had the pleasure of coordinating all that, I'm not going to lie, I have a very dark sense of humor and was laughing my arse off watching it out the window. It happened in the midst of several other issues and I recall a very delayed French Bee inbound forced to the A-side off schedule held well over an hour as a result of how long it took Swissport to get that thing off the gate.

Interesting thread, let me tell you this, airlines withhold parts/refuse to help with other airline's AOG planes ALL THE TIME. I've always been a team player, but not everyone is. One time Air Canada's red eye 767 to YYZ almost cancelled years ago because ice formed on the wing and the captain refused to take the aircraft. Luckily I happened to recall that United and Southwest each had de-icing trucks at SFO. United, despite the AC flight being a codeshare flight full of their pax, literally laughed and refused the liability. Southwest, who had nothing to do with Air Canada, helped out just to be cool, because I asked for help and explained the situation.

But I'd bet I'd have gotten in trouble for that if my superiors found out I had asked Southwest to work on an Air Canada jet. Aviation is one big game of "liability hot potato", and sadly people running airlines/airports (those opposed to these types refer to them the "White Noise Brigade") would much rather have people like the AA employees withholding parts than someone like myself who is willing to take unconventional approaches that will get the job done but lead to a lot of "what if this had gone wrong" lectures. Just like world peace, I wish that one day all airport/airline staff cared more about getting the flights out than liability and the falsehood of public image. Air Travel would be so much better.

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