tphuang
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What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:46 pm

This has been on my mind lately. NK is making a clear push into new markets after several successful quarters. They are clearly right now a well run airline with very good cost control and improving customer relations. So things are on the ups, which have enabled them to undertake new projects. After what a strategy of expanding into big metro areas in the past years with DTW and BWI being the most successful, they have now taken what seems to be a WN focused strategy.

They are putting a huge build up at LAS, BWI, MCO and MSY. On top of that, they have recently added new cities in AUS and BNA with many routes right from the get go. A lot of these routes challenge WN focus city to focus city monopoly. So all of this will have huge impact on WN profitability going forward.

WN is still in the midst of a west coast market share battle with AS and the HI service launch which are both costly. Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?
 
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flymco753
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:49 pm

DTW & ORD have been getting the low end of the stick lately compared to BWI, MCO, FLL, MSY, TPA, & LAS. I think it's clear that NK's new network strategy is to move on from DTW & ORD.
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VS11
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:06 pm

Did I hear you say AirTran? ;)
 
Scarebus34
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:13 pm

Spirit isn't THAT bad as long as you know what you're going to get beforehand. For a <2 hour trip, they are perfectly fine for the price... plus, the big front seat is incredibly affordable compared to other domestic first class products.
 
TWA1985
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:26 pm

flymco753 wrote:
DTW & ORD have been getting the low end of the stick lately compared to BWI, MCO, FLL, MSY, TPA, & LAS. I think it's clear that NK's new network strategy is to move on from DTW & ORD.


Not the case at all, it’s a simple case of gate constraints. However, once they O’Hare expansion is complete NK will have room to expand once again.
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airzona11
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
This has been on my mind lately. NK is making a clear push into new markets after several successful quarters. They are clearly right now a well run airline with very good cost control and improving customer relations. So things are on the ups, which have enabled them to undertake new projects. After what a strategy of expanding into big metro areas in the past years with DTW and BWI being the most successful, they have now taken what seems to be a WN focused strategy.

They are putting a huge build up at LAS, BWI, MCO and MSY. On top of that, they have recently added new cities in AUS and BNA with many routes right from the get go. A lot of these routes challenge WN focus city to focus city monopoly. So all of this will have huge impact on WN profitability going forward.

WN is still in the midst of a west coast market share battle with AS and the HI service launch which are both costly. Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


WN has been on the west coast for decades, AS has the PAC NW, WN has the rest. While they might lose some fliers, to say it will have a huge impact on profitability is not factual. WN competes against the US3 more than NK, NK is still very small relative to US3+WN. NK with their "economy basic" is skimming US3 traffic that the US3 is targeting with their economy basic. NK will need to start to add frequency on their routes to start to gain the higher value fliers. WN is not going to chase the low yield passengers, no airlines are.
 
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ODwyerPW
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:34 pm

Compete on price. I'm paying ALLOT to fly out of TUS now.
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MIflyer12
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:39 pm

tphuang wrote:
Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


Press the advantages: no change fees, bigger network, better seat pitch, two bags free, no carry-on fee.

Spirit is always going to get the guy looking for the very lowest price who says he can travel only with his wallet, never changes plans, never pays a seat assignment fee, and thinks 28" pitch is great.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:45 pm

WN has a great reputation, helpful crews, no nickel and diming and a huge route system. NK has their type of customer to draw from, I.E. People Express and WN has many loyal flyers and that will never change.
 
strfyr51
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:16 pm

there will ALWAYS be the NK's no matter what. WN needs to stick to their strategy and waiver as little as possible, This isn't the 80's and 90's where everybody feared the big bad LCC's The majors are running 85-90% Load factors at a minimum. When they open a route? it's open season! there are not a lot of truly profitable route combinations that are not yet explored OR not already flown by somebody. So NK is not a threat to WN. It's only a threat to it's Management group to find and exploit their Niche in whatever cities they can and do so profitably. The biggest thing about getting bigger? Is the expense of getting Bigger with the needed infrastructure to DO getting bigger. when they make that transition? They'll deserve to BE there. WN has already Made it. All they need fear? Is BAD Management!! ( and there are some lurking about.)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:23 pm

WN thrived by offering the higher end customer what they wanted to pay for with great cost control. WN only offered what those customers demanded or would attract them: flexibility, bags, enough legroom to be sufficient, free snacks, and (at the time), unlimited free booze.

Spirit is pursuing a less loyal, cost constrained market with better cost control, minimal comfort, and practically everything on a cost+ basis. So they show up first on search engines (rant, let me pick what I want, e g., Bags, minimum pitch, drinks, whatever).

WN must:. Everything is going more software. Their inability to run the 717s economically is a warning flag. There tardy launch of flights not being software ready for it.

Spirit might (or might not) add a 2nd fleet type). The cost of a software culture is far less to add that aircraft. I see a temporary advantage serving small markets with the E2 or A220 (yes, I'm aware the E2 fell off Spirit's shortlist). Either WN ceeds the markets to JetBlue, Moxie, and (maybe, aircraft selection dependent) Spirit or WN takes the initiative.

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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:40 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Spirit isn't THAT bad as long as you know what you're going to get beforehand. For a <2 hour trip, they are perfectly fine for the price... plus, the big front seat is incredibly affordable compared to other domestic first class products.


Yes they are that bad.... sorry the post was deleted so that people are unaware what was described that you minimizing regarding Spirit.

WN needs to do nothing.

Spirit does not attract the mainstream passenger many other passengers prefer flying with.
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
WN is still in the midst of a west coast market share battle with AS and the HI service launch which are both costly. Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


Contrary to popular belief around here, WN is not a leisure-focused airline. They don't fly 20x daily between HOU and DAL or 15x daily between SAN and SJC for the benefit of vacationers. WN's high-frequency short-haul network is a bit of insurance against NK and the other ULCCs as NK's less-frequent schedule is unattractive to most business passengers. Also, their ability to underprice WN and make up the difference with fees is more limited on short-haul since (1) fewer short-haul passengers tend to check a bag and (2) there's less room to undercut a $99 fare versus a $249 fare.

And WN is one of the most profitable carriers in the U.S. -- so they do have the wherewithal to defend their market in California as well as in their key cities while also expanding their reach to California.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Their inability to run the 717s economically is a warning flag.


WN didn't dump the 717s because they couldn't operate them economically. They dropped the 717 because there was basically no trip cost advantage versus a 73G. Same pilot costs, same FA costs, same airport costs, a bit less fuel (~10% per hour). You get about 20 more seats for a difference of maybe $200/hour in fuel burn. Plus WN probably has the lowest aircraft ownership costs in the industry on its 737s and it's likely FL didn't.

Plus they had a willing taker on the part of DL -- and DL could realize an enormous unit cost savings across its network by replacing much-higher-unit-cost CRJs indirectly with 717s.

This is basically why they haven't bought a new -700 in nearly a decade -- the 800 offers 30+ more seats for <5% more fuel burn and the cost of one extra FA.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:18 pm

tphuang wrote:
This has been on my mind lately. NK is making a clear push into new markets after several successful quarters. They are clearly right now a well run airline with very good cost control and improving customer relations. So things are on the ups, which have enabled them to undertake new projects. After what a strategy of expanding into big metro areas in the past years with DTW and BWI being the most successful, they have now taken what seems to be a WN focused strategy.

They are putting a huge build up at LAS, BWI, MCO and MSY. On top of that, they have recently added new cities in AUS and BNA with many routes right from the get go. A lot of these routes challenge WN focus city to focus city monopoly. So all of this will have huge impact on WN profitability going forward.

WN is still in the midst of a west coast market share battle with AS and the HI service launch which are both costly. Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


Apologize for... defragmenting your thread by my observations, about Spirit after I was “labeled”... for this topic does have merit.

Because of Southwest’s size, they have got to make a choice of what fleet type best serves their future needs in addition to the 737.

I prefer the Embraer E2 for Southwest.

ULCCs could benefit by the 6 abreast potential of the Airbus A220, as could Southwest, but that would firstly complicate their product, and impact the passenger experience.

By putting more seats in the A220 it also leads to an aircraft getting too big again to serve the high frequency markets WN has built its reputation upon.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:42 pm

While most of WN's nonstop routes out of LAS have nonstop competition on at least one ULCC, WN does serve LAS nonstop from a few markets that have no ULCC presence such as AMA, LBB, and MAF. WN is also the only airline currently serving LAS nonstop from BHM, even though BHM is served by F9.

There are some WN stations not currently served by NK such as MDW, DAL, HOU, ISP, LGB, MHT, ONT, PVD, SNA, SFO, SJC, DCA, and IAD that are near airports served by NK. Most of these WN stations are far enough from nearby NK stations to support nonstop service to leisure destinations on WN.

WN is carrying some connecting traffic to and from West Coast destinations on most of its nonstop flights to and from LAS, and WN is carrying more than just O&D traffic and leisure-oriented traffic on most of its nonstop flights to/from LAS.

There are also some travelers who will avoid NK at all costs in markets where both WN and NK have a significant presence such as ATL, BWI/DCA/IAD, MDW/ORD, DAL/DFW, FLL, HOU/IAH, LAS, LAX, MCO, MSY, and TPA.

WN does also serve some leisure markets in the Florida Panhandle and Hawaii that aren't served by NK such as HNL, OGG, KOA, ECP, and PNS.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:04 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
DTW & ORD have been getting the low end of the stick lately compared to BWI, MCO, FLL, MSY, TPA, & LAS. I think it's clear that NK's new network strategy is to move on from DTW & ORD.


Not the case at all, it’s a simple case of gate constraints. However, once they O’Hare expansion is complete NK will have room to expand once again.
I can see more Chicago for sure but DTW? I think they're done with that airport for a while. Would'nt be surprised to see the reverse factor in order to continue growing Baltimore.
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:09 am

Keep it on topic or we will lock the thread. Thanks guys
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Antarius
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:21 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


Press the advantages: no change fees, bigger network, better seat pitch, two bags free, no carry-on fee.

Spirit is always going to get the guy looking for the very lowest price who says he can travel only with his wallet, never changes plans, never pays a seat assignment fee, and thinks 28" pitch is great.


WN has, by virtue of history, limiting their point of sale and good management and advertising, managed to instill their "low cost mentality" into the world. As a result, despite not being NK cheap, they are considered a good value brand relative to the US3. I know a ton of people who still feel WN is the cheapest and dont even bother comparing as that's what they've seen and WN seems to avoid customer service meltdowns to the level of others, leaving no reason to doubt that.

WN has a loyal brand following and good customer service. They also are diligent about their planning and don't buy into this a.net mentality of " I cant believe they arent flying long haul yet".

They will do fine. as with NK as well; LCC by concept but WN isnt just price based customers.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:31 am

Antarius wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Given that WN is unlikely to go basic economy anytime soon, what does it do about NK's buildup at LAS or these other cities?


Press the advantages: no change fees, bigger network, better seat pitch, two bags free, no carry-on fee.

Spirit is always going to get the guy looking for the very lowest price who says he can travel only with his wallet, never changes plans, never pays a seat assignment fee, and thinks 28" pitch is great.


WN has, by virtue of history, limiting their point of sale and good management and advertising, managed to instill their "low cost mentality" into the world. As a result, despite not being NK cheap, they are considered a good value brand relative to the US3. I know a ton of people who still feel WN is the cheapest and dont even bother comparing as that's what they've seen and WN seems to avoid customer service meltdowns to the level of others, leaving no reason to doubt that.

WN has a loyal brand following and good customer service. They also are diligent about their planning and don't buy into this a.net mentality of " I cant believe they arent flying long haul yet".

They will do fine. as with NK as well; LCC by concept but WN isnt just price based customers.


Or another a.net mentality of "WN needs the A220 to succeed"... like :rotfl:
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:11 am

My business will go to NK after AA, DL, UA, AS. Unless WN figures out a way to charge me for checked baggage. And WN puts in a First seat, then Spirit will land back into its familiar spot of "never" for me.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:30 am

A sign that Spirit is bothering WN is when WN starts selling tickets outside of its own site. Imagine an airline that doesn't cater to Orbitz et al. A traveller has to know to go on Southwest.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:51 am

I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:15 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.

Bingo, thats how you can tell frequent travellers vs wannabe’s lol
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:39 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
A sign that Spirit is bothering WN is when WN starts selling tickets outside of its own site. Imagine an airline that doesn't cater to Orbitz et al. A traveller has to know to go on Southwest.

It be when WN offers a basic product. Last to board, maybe even bag fee. Then we will know NK is a threat.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:32 am

WN absolutely has to worry about NK. To say otherwise is silly.

I'm not saying that they should be terrified, but when a competitor comes in and successfully undercuts nearly every airline, and that competitor is growing fast, others notice (If they're smart, which Southwest is.)

Millennials and Gen Z are both more price sensitive than previous generations - They are more likely to fly NK than previous generations. Other airlines are now catering to them as well. Spirit has improved their performance so much over the last two years that they are frequently ahead of Southwest. The "Spirit stigma" may slowly be disappearing, in which case Southwest will have to adapt a bit, especially since they are rarely the cheapest option anymore. I fly both airlines frequently and can't tell the difference in clientele.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:33 am

I remember when Spirit was growing out like gangbusters at DFW it made WN sweat, they were pricing matching with NK on every route. Now I think there is an equilibrium in Dallas with the two.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:04 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.

It’s akin to shopping at WalMart, where people of means certainly shop. There’s also a certain strata that ONLY shops at WalMart, and makes you want to shop elsewhere. So for those who complain about Spirit’s clientele...I can understand what they mean.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:25 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
A sign that Spirit is bothering WN is when WN starts selling tickets outside of its own site. Imagine an airline that doesn't cater to Orbitz et al. A traveller has to know to go on Southwest.


That's one that still surprises me. IIRC, the data show DL/AA/UA still sell a lot of tickets thru sites other than their own.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:21 pm

I remember the good old days when WN by default was the cheapest option. Long live Herb!
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:47 pm

santi319 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.

Bingo, thats how you can tell frequent travellers vs wannabe’s lol


And how is that?
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN DEN DOH BLR MAA KTM YYZ MEX
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 pm

I think people continue to underestimate how fluid the large traveling public is with regard to which airline they fly on. Especially to leisure destinations, NK has shown that it has a model that can be quite profitable. WN's bread and butter business markets in middle of the country are not the issue here, but rather the airports they are expanding in. And my other question is whether or not WN need to react to NK adding some many city pairs out of AUS, BNA and even RDU, where WN absolutely dominate. It's just not logical to say that additional capacity in the markets will not hurt yield.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:11 pm

There are still a few larger markets not currently served by NK such as CVG, ORF, MEM, OKC, and SLC where WN could add more nonstop service to leisure destinations.

Even though SEA, PDX, OAK, LAX, and SAN are already served by NK, WN could also add nonstop service to Florida destinations from SEA, PDX, OAK, SJC, LAX, and SAN where it would not face nonstop competition from NK.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:30 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.


Ironically, 20 years about these same people would’ve been complaining about WN’s clientele, boarding process, and lack of IFE and meals.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm

The advantage of flying WN or any other over NK is that NK has such low frequencies on most of its routes.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:56 pm

So how does Southwest respond to Spirit and maintain its character?

It’s interesting that Southwest has been declining at BWI while Spirit in closing in on 10% market share and even has a couple of international flights.

The BWI decline started before the Max problems (but it certainly hasn’t helped) so no doubt Southwest will be responding.

I just don’t think Southwest knows what to do about them, which brings me back to my question...what could they do and still maintain who they are?
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
There are also some travelers who will avoid NK at all costs in markets where both WN and NK have a significant presence

The opposite can be the case as well. I don't really care for NK, but I'll ride them on a short flight.

I don't do WN for any reason. Others (families who've gotten separated in previous WN experiences) feel the same.

Granted, the numbers of all the above are infinitesimally small compared to total flyers for either airline; but still extant.
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:39 am

OB1504 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
I have to laugh when people talk about the "clientele" of certain airlines. I have flown Spirit & Allegiant a few times and they were perfectly fine. I have also flown AA & DL first class and WN many times, so have at it.


Ironically, 20 years about these same people would’ve been complaining about WN’s clientele, boarding process, and lack of IFE and meals.


Yup. Back then it was WN and People Express fliers. Now it's G4/NK/F9.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:42 am

southwest1675 wrote:
I remember the good old days when WN by default was the cheapest option. Long live Herb!


Herb was a class act before he died. Southwest today-not so much.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:59 am

What does Southwest do? They do what they do best! Keep on keeping on. Everyone learned to live with WN in their backyard. Many put up a full on fight, and lost their butts. Look at America West for example. PHX and LAS were their hubs, and they did it just fine, now one of the largest airlines in America.

I am faithful to WN, and I love having 2 checked bags.
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:10 am

I don’t fly Spirit often, but they work great in a pinch particularly for close-in short notice personal or leisure travel where the cost difference versus everyone else is several hundred dollars less.
 
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:36 am

jplatts wrote:
There are some WN stations not currently served by NK such as MDW, DAL, HOU, ISP, LGB, MHT, ONT, PVD, SNA, SFO, SJC, DCA, and IAD that are near airports served by NK. Most of these WN stations are far enough from nearby NK stations to support nonstop service to leisure destinations on WN.


Please add CVG to your list.

jplatts wrote:
There are still a few larger markets not currently served by NK such as CVG, ORF, MEM, OKC, and SLC where WN could add more nonstop service to leisure destinations.


Thank you!

By the way, and I haven't posted this thought in awhile, but I still feel that if Spirit seriously considers serving Southwest Ohio, they would do well to consider DAY. At CVG, NK would butt heads with WN, F9 & G4, and besides that, DAY is a nice, user-friendly airport that deserves the return of LCC/ULCC service. Spirit, are you listening?
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:41 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There are also some travelers who will avoid NK at all costs in markets where both WN and NK have a significant presence

The opposite can be the case as well. I don't really care for NK, but I'll ride them on a short flight.

I don't do WN for any reason. Others (families who've gotten separated in previous WN experiences) feel the same.

Granted, the numbers of all the above are infinitesimally small compared to total flyers for either airline; but still extant.


Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN. I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.
 
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STT757
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:51 pm

I have to say, I’ve never flown NK but I think they’re really changing their brand’s perception which combined with growing their network and adding larger A321s is a winning combination.

They used to have a terrible reputation, but now I know people who absolutely have the means to pay more for other options but don’t because they’re satisfied with what they get from NK. They would rather spend the money on a nicer hotel etc..

I think all of the LCCs have greatly improved over the past five years, G4 by retiring the MD-80s and F9 by transforming into a point to point carrier.


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LAX772LR
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:13 am

afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

You might wish to Google the term "anecdotal conclusion."
That's an acquaintanceship that's in need of establishing :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Veigar
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:17 am

LAX772LR wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

Do yourself a favor cher, and Google the term "anecdotal conclusion." :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.



Or just check in early? I always get A list without paying extra.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:18 am

Veigar wrote:
Or just check in early? I always get A list without paying extra.

Or just avoid a carrier with such an obnoxious system, and fly a real airline... even better. :)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:52 am

tphuang wrote:
I think people continue to underestimate how fluid the large traveling public is with regard to which airline they fly on. Especially to leisure destinations, NK has shown that it has a model that can be quite profitable. WN's bread and butter business markets in middle of the country are not the issue here, but rather the airports they are expanding in. And my other question is whether or not WN need to react to NK adding some many city pairs out of AUS, BNA and even RDU, where WN absolutely dominate. It's just not logical to say that additional capacity in the markets will not hurt yield.


It's true that WN has the top market share in AUS (35.3 percent; AA 17.9, UA 14.8, DL 13.3) and BNA (WN 54.4 percent, DL 11.1), but not so much at RDU, where DL leads with a 30.6 percent market share, followed by AA at 23.8 percent and WN at 19.4 percent. I'm not sure where you can say that WN "dominates" at RDU; could you clarify that argument?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:58 am

Southwest is to Walmart as Spirit is to Dollar Tree

both serve their market well, there is some overlap in the market, but one does not take over the others market

Americans like various levels of options...There is no industry where this is more true than the airline industry
 
tphuang
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Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think people continue to underestimate how fluid the large traveling public is with regard to which airline they fly on. Especially to leisure destinations, NK has shown that it has a model that can be quite profitable. WN's bread and butter business markets in middle of the country are not the issue here, but rather the airports they are expanding in. And my other question is whether or not WN need to react to NK adding some many city pairs out of AUS, BNA and even RDU, where WN absolutely dominate. It's just not logical to say that additional capacity in the markets will not hurt yield.


It's true that WN has the top market share in AUS (35.3 percent; AA 17.9, UA 14.8, DL 13.3) and BNA (WN 54.4 percent, DL 11.1), but not so much at RDU, where DL leads with a 30.6 percent market share, followed by AA at 23.8 percent and WN at 19.4 percent. I'm not sure where you can say that WN "dominates" at RDU; could you clarify that argument?

i'm not saying that they dominate RDU, but there are several markets out of RDU like BWI and MSY where they do dominate.

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