Western727
Posts: 1628
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:07 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Southwest is to Walmart as Spirit is to Dollar Tree


I'm with you, though I see WN being like Target, not Walmart..."Expect More. Pay Less" seems to fit WN more closely. Reasonable quality at reasonable prices.

Your reply also reminds me of Budget/Alamo (and the top-tier Avis/Hertz/National brands with their express pick-up options) with no visual inspections of cars at pick-up, for example, vs. Dollar/Enterprise/Thrifty with their slightly-annoying visual inspections at pick up. So, I tend to think of Walmart when picking up cars from these companies. Ace/EZ Car/etc. with their typically-ratty interiors, higher mileage and less-than-perfect mechanical conditions I tend to think of as being like Spirit and Dollar Tree. ;)
Last edited by Western727 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jack @ AUS
 
n92r03
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:07 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Southwest is to Walmart as Spirit is to Dollar Tree

both serve their market well, there is some overlap in the market, but one does not take over the others market

Americans like various levels of options...There is no industry where this is more true than the airline industry



Excellant summary. WN simply needs to do what they do best. Plenty of pax for both companies to thrive.
 
SEA
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:30 pm

STT757 wrote:

They used to have a terrible reputation, but now I know people who absolutely have the means to pay more for other options but don’t because they’re satisfied with what they get from NK. They would rather spend the money on a nicer hotel etc..


I've heard quite a few relatives say the same thing about NK. I've never flown them simply because for me, WN has better options. But I'd love to give them a go some day.
 
WN732
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:37 pm

So I guess that makes DL TraderJoe's or WholeFoods.
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Veigar wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

Do yourself a favor cher, and Google the term "anecdotal conclusion." :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.



Or just check in early? I always get A list without paying extra.



Can't speak for LA, but at ALB (obviously smaller station), my WN flights have a bunch of A-Listers and those that do early bird. If I myself try that, I will wind up in the back of B. I have even ended up in B with Early Bird. WN works for me if I'm going ALB- somewhere west, but I haven't flown them in some time. I have actually been driving to BDL and flying NK in the big seat with checked and carry for roughly the same price as WN. My domestic flights have been BDL-Florida lately (2 in the last 2 months, and another in Sep), so NK in the big seat fits the bill. Ive flown them a bit in the last few years, and find them just fine. Ive spent time on NK, WW, DY, DL, WN, AA, B6 in the last few years and they all fit the bill just fine, and had a similar mix of travelers. You would see well heeled travelers on WW and NK, and the backpack crowd on AA and DL.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1623
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:07 pm

WN732 wrote:
So I guess that makes DL TraderJoe's or WholeFoods.


And AA is Aldi?
 
ScottB
Posts: 6592
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:39 pm

9w748capt wrote:
WN732 wrote:
So I guess that makes DL TraderJoe's or WholeFoods.


And AA is Aldi?


AA is more like the corner bodega with expired fruit/meat and super-high prices if that corner bodega were a nationwide chain.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:52 pm

Their yellow is pretty at NK.

Paint the planes maybe?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
WN732
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:05 pm

ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
WN732 wrote:
So I guess that makes DL TraderJoe's or WholeFoods.


And AA is Aldi?


AA is more like the corner bodega with expired fruit/meat and super-high prices if that corner bodega were a nationwide chain.


So far we have:

WN - Target (not Super Target)
DL - Whole Foods
AA - Corner Bodega ( with stale food and high prices) Sounds like Panera.
UA - Every Kickboxing studio where you learn to fight first and ask questions later.
B6 - Vons / Safeway
SY - WalMart
NK - Dollar Tree
F9 - Family Dollar
G4 - Circle K
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think people continue to underestimate how fluid the large traveling public is with regard to which airline they fly on. Especially to leisure destinations, NK has shown that it has a model that can be quite profitable. WN's bread and butter business markets in middle of the country are not the issue here, but rather the airports they are expanding in. And my other question is whether or not WN need to react to NK adding some many city pairs out of AUS, BNA and even RDU, where WN absolutely dominate. It's just not logical to say that additional capacity in the markets will not hurt yield.


It's true that WN has the top market share in AUS (35.3 percent; AA 17.9, UA 14.8, DL 13.3) and BNA (WN 54.4 percent, DL 11.1), but not so much at RDU, where DL leads with a 30.6 percent market share, followed by AA at 23.8 percent and WN at 19.4 percent. I'm not sure where you can say that WN "dominates" at RDU; could you clarify that argument?

i'm not saying that they dominate RDU, but there are several markets out of RDU like BWI and MSY where they do dominate.


Thanks for clarifying.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
Bradin
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:51 pm

It's really simple: Transfarency.

'nuff said.
 
Western727
Posts: 1628
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:38 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:27 pm

WN732 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

And AA is Aldi?


AA is more like the corner bodega with expired fruit/meat and super-high prices if that corner bodega were a nationwide chain.


So far we have:

WN - Target (not Super Target)
DL - Whole Foods
AA - Corner Bodega ( with stale food and high prices) Sounds like Panera.
UA - Every Kickboxing studio where you learn to fight first and ask questions later.
B6 - Vons / Safeway
SY - WalMart
NK - Dollar Tree
F9 - Family Dollar
G4 - Circle K


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Jack @ AUS
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1512
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:30 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

You might wish to Google the term "anecdotal conclusion."
That's an acquaintanceship that's in need of establishing :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.

Exactly. With NK (or SY, F9, G4 for that matter), you can pay your $15 or so and get your seat, but on WN even if you pay you are still in limbo about getting your preferred seat.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1512
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 pm

n92r03 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Southwest is to Walmart as Spirit is to Dollar Tree

both serve their market well, there is some overlap in the market, but one does not take over the others market

Americans like various levels of options...There is no industry where this is more true than the airline industry



Excellent summary. WN simply needs to do what they do best. Plenty of pax for both companies to thrive.

Exactly what I was thinking. Sure, NK will bite out of WN's market share, but the aviation industry is growing so fast that it doesn't even matter as there are enough passengers to fill up planes using both business models
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:33 pm

stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

You might wish to Google the term "anecdotal conclusion."
That's an acquaintanceship that's in need of establishing :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.

Exactly. With NK (or SY, F9, G4 for that matter), you can pay your $15 or so and get your seat, but on WN even if you pay you are still in limbo about getting your preferred seat.

I’m just the opposite. WN is the only airline where I can buy the cheapest fare, pay nothing else, and still be seated with my family. Obviously not guaranteed, but I have never had a problem.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12311
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:53 am

stl07 wrote:
Exactly. With NK (or SY, F9, G4 for that matter), you can pay your $15 or so and get your seat, but on WN even if you pay you are still in limbo about getting your preferred seat.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:


cledaybuck wrote:
I’m just the opposite. WN is the only airline where I can buy the cheapest fare, pay nothing else, and still be seated with my family.

Of course the obvious followup here is:
Have you ever even tried with other given carriers?

Because if you had, you'd realize that that's not true, at least to the same extent...........

cledaybuck wrote:
Obviously not guaranteed

.........as this.

it's not as if Legacy carriers go out of their way to separate jointly-booked individuals and families on Basic Economy fares. Not only do you run essentially the same risk of not having tandem seats when last on the aircraft, but the same "would you mind switching with me so I can sit next to my child/spouse/etc" will work 99% of the time too.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MHG
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:33 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:55 am

LAX772LR wrote:
it's not as if Legacy carriers go out of their way to separate jointly-booked individuals and families on Basic Economy fares. Not only do you run essentially the same risk of not having tandem seats when last on the aircraft, but the same "would you mind switching with me so I can sit next to my child/spouse/etc" will work 99% of the time too.

Regarding the latter it´s the kind of approach that any reasonably matured character would have in mind first ...
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5465
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:23 am

SEA wrote:
STT757 wrote:

They used to have a terrible reputation, but now I know people who absolutely have the means to pay more for other options but don’t because they’re satisfied with what they get from NK. They would rather spend the money on a nicer hotel etc..


I've heard quite a few relatives say the same thing about NK. I've never flown them simply because for me, WN has better options. But I'd love to give them a go some day.


You sounded just like me when I had not flown NK before, then I did, I finally did it, so I feel properly prepared, should I ever find myself imprisoned in Calcutta in the big black hole of Mamoo. If you are over 5"9, start with some simple stretching exercises in advance, the final goal will be to retrain your knees to bend backwards & comfortably putting then next to your ears for the remainder of the flight, which is perfect, because the intercom on the plane will cut in & out, just enough to miss key words.

If you need to relieve yourself, do it in the airport before you board & tie a knot in it for the flight, those bathrooms can befoul the ENTIRE cabin of an A-219 rather quickly, but luckily the captain had enough time during the 25 minutes in Dallas to lovingly purchase a case of 12 aerosol cans, filled with Glades "Summer Bouquet". It now smells like a sewage truck blew up in a field of overly fragrant flowers in 90 degree heat.

While your experience may vary, these are the facts about my NK trip. I suppose on a short 2- flight I may do it again, but nothing over 2 hours.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777-2/3, DC8, DC9, MD80/2/7/8, D10-1/3/4, M11, L10-2/5, A300/310/319/320
AA AC AQ BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WN WP YS 8M
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:39 pm

stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Because you live in LA. I have never met anyone who hates or refuses to fly WN unless they live in LA, and I have met tons of people there say that. It's been a long time since I've heard that and am actually surprised you would choose NK over WN.

You might wish to Google the term "anecdotal conclusion."
That's an acquaintanceship that's in need of establishing :wink:


afcjets wrote:
I also never heard anyone say it was over seat assignments, but it makes sense.

Pretty straightforward really:

(1) WN has a restriction that annoys the living sh!t out of me, and for which there's no guaranteed way around
(yeah yeah, I know, buy the higher ticket and get in their retarded lineup thing early).

(2) NK doesn't.

I'd rather avoid both, as I prefer to stick with full-service Legacies; but if I had to choose, NK would be the clear winner.

Exactly. With NK (or SY, F9, G4 for that matter), you can pay your $15 or so and get your seat, but on WN even if you pay you are still in limbo about getting your preferred seat.
Not sure I would call anything that you can get on F9 or G4 (never flown the other two) for $15 a preferred seat, but if you need a seat assignment, yes, this works. Of course, we are talking another $90 r/t for my family of 3. And that is before baggage charges.
LAX772LR wrote:
Of course the obvious followup here is:
Have you ever even tried with other given carriers?

Not yet. Just booked an AA basic economy flight for next spring. Didn't want to spend an extra $210 just to be able to select my seats from a selection of the least desirable on the plane. Was ok with it because AA's policy says they will seat a least one adult with a child on the same reservation under 15. As far as I can tell, UA and DL have no such guarantees.
LAX772LR wrote:
it's not as if Legacy carriers go out of their way to separate jointly-booked individuals and families on Basic Economy fares.
You wouldn't know it by the way it is worded on some of their websites. They certainly try to encourage (scare?) families into paying for economy by stating how you are not guaranteed seats together.
LAX772LR wrote:
Not only do you run essentially the same risk of not having tandem seats when last on the aircraft, but the same "would you mind switching with me so I can sit next to my child/spouse/etc" will work 99% of the time too.
I have never been close to last on the aircraft with WN, since I make sure to check in right at T-24 and I have never had to ask someone to switch. Only time I have had to ask someone to switch was when UA screwed up our seat assignments (oh that's right, despite paying for a seat assignment, it isn't guaranteed) and the gate couldn't do anything about it. They told us just to ask someone to switch on the plane. I'm not sure it is really fair to ask someone who may have paid $30-$40 to pick their seat to switch with me. He either looks like an asshole or switched to a seat he may not really want. Maybe I have just been reading too much flyertalk (yes, I know, a lot of over entitled people over there).
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12311
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: What does WN do about NK?

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:25 am

cledaybuck wrote:
Maybe I have just been reading too much flyertalk (yes, I know, a lot of over entitled people over there).

You just accurately self-diagnosed.

That site's a joke, and has been for over a decade... even by the admission of its former founder.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos