Heard that this is not in the booking engine beyond early next year, anyone care to confirm or deny?

It’s a bit early for schedules beyond January/February 2020 to be loaded or accurate.

she's gone

I thought that route was doing good. Maybe it’ll come back when they start receiving A220s.

I still see it as active as recent as Jan 6th on jetblue.com and their schedule only is loaded through the 8th. Seems like it's still running.

I had issues booking a flight to Florida a few weeks ago. Think the site just sucks lately too.

Weird route. Does B6 do a lot of other p2p like this? Or is LA some kind of mini hub? What caused this route in the first place?

AaronPGH wrote:

Weird route. Does B6 do a lot of other p2p like this? Or is LA some kind of mini hub? What caused this route in the first place?

I believe it was a way of serving Toronto with out flying into Canada. Here in NY for a bit there was a lot of launches of U.S. border cities getting some flights to areas of interest allowing airlines to capitalize on selling to passengers without the taxes associated with Canada and dealing with customs.

When I flew the flight a couple years ago, it was busy. It may have been hurt by the dollar more recently. I've found that BUF is much less of a deal now than it used to be compared with YYZ.

rj1385 wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

Weird route. Does B6 do a lot of other p2p like this? Or is LA some kind of mini hub? What caused this route in the first place?

I believe it was a way of serving Toronto with out flying into Canada.

That's not always a bad strategy (see Bellingham of a few years ago; Plattsburgh) but it guarantees you're getting the most price-conscious of Canadian shoppers. There are AC non-stops next month at US$ 382 r/t that don't demand the 1:45 each way drive from YYZ to BUF.

It may just be a January/February hiatus which is pretty common for thinner transcontinental markets.

Its still there. Bookable through Jan 6th, and JetBlue only goes to Jan 8th a Wednesday. In the winter its usually 4 or 5x a week.

Jetblue’s schedule gets extended tomorrow so we’ll have to see if it’s still there.

It'll only go away until Chuck Schumer starts shaking his fist and it'll return.

WeatherPilot wrote:

Jetblue’s schedule gets extended tomorrow so we’ll have to see if it’s still there.

Showing into February on the JetBlue Vacations site, which gets the schedule extension early for some reason.

Just remember .... this route is not daily during the winter.

This route besides this past January has been filled on average between 80 -85% per month. I dont see why they would get rid of the route. It seems to be doing just fine.

I bet you its just a glitch or you cant schedule it yet.

I'm going with the schedules aren't loaded theory. 2020 is still 6 months away. I also took this flight a couple years ago, and it was full. Most people seemed to be headed for Canada, either Niagara Falls or Toronto. Thanks to high taxes, its actually a lot of times cheaper to fly LAX-BUF, then take a bus or rent a car then fly nonstop LAX-YYZ. Would be surprised to see it cut or even frequencies reduced.

usctrojan18 wrote:

IThanks to high taxes, its actually a lot of times cheaper to fly LAX-BUF, then take a bus or rent a car then fly nonstop LAX-YYZ. Would be surprised to see it cut or even frequencies reduced.

Air Canada's usual cheapest fare this summer from YYZ-LAX is $280CAD or $210US. (Taxes and fees included).

jetblue's usual cheapest fare is $226US. (I did see one day in July on a Tuesday though, for $201US).

There's a reason Air Canada has six flights a day between YYZ and LAX, including three widebodies, 777s and 787s. And that is with the reduction by one daily frequency due to the MAX issues.

I would be very surprised if anyone in Toronto would choose the hellish drive (weather in winter, traffic in summer and 90 minutes at best) to drive to Buffalo to pay basically the same fare.

usctrojan18 wrote:

Most people seemed to be headed for Canada, either Niagara Falls or Toronto.

I would guess this is the reason. As I have said on many threads, there are about 1M Canadians that live closer to BUF than YYZ, Niagara Falls / St. Catherines included. Whether that is enough to fill one A320 is anyone's guess.

I agree, no one in Toronto proper wants to drive 2+ hours with traffic to BUF to save $30 dollars.. I think this is more for southern Ontario residents than anything.

AaronPGH wrote:

Weird route. Does B6 do a lot of other p2p like this? Or is LA some kind of mini hub? What caused this route in the first place?

LAX is the single largest O&D airport in both the country and world.

As a result, all four of the Legacy carriers have small hubs here, Southwest and Spirit have significant focus operations, and just about every other airline flies p2p routes to some extent.

usctrojan18 wrote:

I'm going with the schedules aren't loaded theory. 2020 is still 6 months away. I also took this flight a couple years ago, and it was full. Most people seemed to be headed for Canada, either Niagara Falls or Toronto. Thanks to high taxes, its actually a lot of times cheaper to fly LAX-BUF, then take a bus or rent a car then fly nonstop LAX-YYZ. Would be surprised to see it cut or even frequencies reduced.

It’s dirt cheap to fly Toronto-LAX. I don’t doubt there were many Canadians, but most probably were not trekking to Toronto.

MAH4546 wrote:

usctrojan18 wrote:

I'm going with the schedules aren't loaded theory. 2020 is still 6 months away. I also took this flight a couple years ago, and it was full. Most people seemed to be headed for Canada, either Niagara Falls or Toronto. Thanks to high taxes, its actually a lot of times cheaper to fly LAX-BUF, then take a bus or rent a car then fly nonstop LAX-YYZ. Would be surprised to see it cut or even frequencies reduced.

It’s dirt cheap to fly Toronto-LAX. I don’t doubt there were many Canadians, but most probably were not trekking to Toronto.

Agreed. There’s about 1/2 million Canadians in the Niagara Falls region, for whom BUF/IAG are their de facto airports...at least for all non-domestic travel and like longhauler said, about 1M Canadians total that are within easier reach of BUF than YYZ.

Dominion301 wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:

usctrojan18 wrote:

I'm going with the schedules aren't loaded theory. 2020 is still 6 months away. I also took this flight a couple years ago, and it was full. Most people seemed to be headed for Canada, either Niagara Falls or Toronto. Thanks to high taxes, its actually a lot of times cheaper to fly LAX-BUF, then take a bus or rent a car then fly nonstop LAX-YYZ. Would be surprised to see it cut or even frequencies reduced.

It’s dirt cheap to fly Toronto-LAX. I don’t doubt there were many Canadians, but most probably were not trekking to Toronto.

Agreed. There’s about 1/2 million Canadians in the Niagara Falls region, for whom BUF/IAG are their de facto airports...at least for all non-domestic travel and like longhauler said, about 1M Canadians total that are within easier reach of BUF than YYZ.

I believe its up to 40% of passengers are Canadians that fly out of Buffalo. WN, F9, and b6 are VERY popular and cheap.

If you are a single passenger, flying out of BNIA out from Canada is not worth it. But if you have a whole family flying to Florida, vegas, LA, etc. It is definitely worth the savings. I have talked to Canadians flying to Orlando from Buffalo. They said even if they get a hotel room near the airport + parking at the airport. They still save a LOT of money and time flying out.

Pearson isnt worth the price of parking, dealing with long security lines, traffic to get to the airport, and higher fees when traveling to the US.

Maybe MINT can fix this routes possible weakness.

(;

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

I believe its up to 40% of passengers are Canadians that fly out of Buffalo. WN, F9, and b6 are VERY popular and cheap.

If you are a single passenger, flying out of BNIA out from Canada is not worth it. But if you have a whole family flying to Florida, vegas, LA, etc. It is definitely worth the savings. I have talked to Canadians flying to Orlando from Buffalo. They said even if they get a hotel room near the airport + parking at the airport. They still save a LOT of money and time flying out.

Pearson isnt worth the price of parking, dealing with long security lines, traffic to get to the airport, and higher fees when traveling to the US.

They might save money ... might ... but they sure as hell don't save any time!

You're saying it's faster to jump on the QEW and take the 90 minute drive (best possible time with no traffic, customs or weather), spend a night in a hotel ... and that's faster than the 2:55 minute flight from YYZ-MCO?

I checked a week in January. Jetblue BUF-MCO-BUF, cheapest fare $349CDN. (plus $40/bag)

Or you could just fly Air Transat YYZ-MCO-YYZ for $321CAD, (plus $25/bag).

Yes, you can find a $300CAD fare BUF-XXX-MCO on Delta, visiting DTW, ATL or JFK on the way. But that goes back to the "time" issue, as some of those treks take all day! But I still can't see even a family of four taking a long drive, staying in a hotel, travelling through the most delay prone airspace during the winter ... to save $21 a person.

Parking at YYZ isn't bad ... about the same as a night in a hotel near BUF. Long security lines? Traffic to the airport? I am guessing you have never waiting in the Customs lines at the border into the US. I'd say it was all a wash.

As noted above, I can't see anyone in the Toronto area heading to BUF for a cheap flight. But ... if you live closer, it becomes more and more a viable option as you get closer. But I still remember three days last winter with strong east winds ... it caused heavy snowfall due to lake effect onto the only highway from Toronto to Buffalo. It opened and closed over the span of a week. Then I saw the road side illuminated signs indicating that all border crossings were closed. That would be a disaster for a family heading to Florida for a vacation.

longhauler wrote:

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

I believe its up to 40% of passengers are Canadians that fly out of Buffalo. WN, F9, and b6 are VERY popular and cheap.

If you are a single passenger, flying out of BNIA out from Canada is not worth it. But if you have a whole family flying to Florida, vegas, LA, etc. It is definitely worth the savings. I have talked to Canadians flying to Orlando from Buffalo. They said even if they get a hotel room near the airport + parking at the airport. They still save a LOT of money and time flying out.

Pearson isnt worth the price of parking, dealing with long security lines, traffic to get to the airport, and higher fees when traveling to the US.

They might save money ... might ... but they sure as hell don't save any time!

You're saying it's faster to jump on the QEW and take the 90 minute drive (best possible time with no traffic, customs or weather), spend a night in a hotel ... and that's faster than the 2:55 minute flight from YYZ-MCO?

I checked a week in January. Jetblue BUF-MCO-BUF, cheapest fare $349CDN. (plus $40/bag)

Or you could just fly Air Transat YYZ-MCO-YYZ for $321CAD, (plus $25/bag).

Yes, you can find a $300CAD fare BUF-XXX-MCO on Delta, visiting DTW, ATL or JFK on the way. But that goes back to the "time" issue, as some of those treks take all day! But I still can't see even a family of four taking a long drive, staying in a hotel, travelling through the most delay prone airspace during the winter ... to save $21 a person.

Parking at YYZ isn't bad ... about the same as a night in a hotel near BUF. Long security lines? Traffic to the airport? I am guessing you have never waiting in the Customs lines at the border into the US. I'd say it was all a wash.

As noted above, I can't see anyone in the Toronto area heading to BUF for a cheap flight. But ... if you live closer, it becomes more and more a viable option as you get closer. But I still remember three days last winter with strong east winds ... it caused heavy snowfall due to lake effect onto the only highway from Toronto to Buffalo. It opened and closed over the span of a week. Then I saw the road side illuminated signs indicating that all border crossings were closed. That would be a disaster for a family heading to Florida for a vacation.

Canadians still come over and fly out of Buffalo ..... its gone from 30 to 40% each year and rising. So something with your pricing is way off. Take a drive into the parking lots, its basically all Ontario plates.

Buffalomatt1027 wrote:

Canadians still come over and fly out of Buffalo ..... its gone from 30 to 40% each year and rising. So something with your pricing is way off. Take a drive into the parking lots, its basically all Ontario plates.

As noted several times in this thread and many many times on this website, over one million Canadians live closer to BUF than YYZ. It is not at all surprising therefore, that one would see Ontario licence plates in the parking lot. I am guessing you'll see alot of Ontario licence plates at Wal-mart too!

The dividing point between the two is approximately Hamilton, Ontario, (population about 550,000 for the metro area and 750,000 including the surrounding area). If one's destination were the United States, BUF is a viable option. Internationally though, YYZ usually has a significant price edge over BUF ... as attested by the many New York licence plates at YYZ.

As far as pricing goes, I just used Travelocity as it will put fares (taxes included) in Canadian dollars.