HPAEAA
Posts: 1099
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Lots of posts about AA's 789 having only 30 J class seats, maybe AA should reconfigure he plans similar to Qantas. If the issue is the European routes don't need so many J class seats then AA needs two 789 configurations. AA needs to give themselves a chance in Asia with properly configured 787 aircraft, the 777 fleet is "properly" configured.


Thankfully, there’s a second wave of 789s coming in the next few years. That may allow AA to change some configs, but they want to minimize their subfleets as much as possible.

AA has a different strategy than a large chunk of the industry opting to go premium lite on the new fleet so I doubt we're going to see a reverse course on that (short of a management change). Personally I'm curious to know why, but I suspect it may have a lot to do with how they're opting to straddle the LCC/full service carrier ends of the market, for international, they have a large part of their operations focused in cities that don't support high J demand from the O&D perspective and in the cities that do support high O&D demand for premium seats they have a healthy supply of partners who can off set their lack of inventory through the ATI agreements. I don't think this bodes well for them long term and hurts any brand loyalty they have, but short term it probably helps them since Y demand is strong at the moment...

Back to topic though - it will be interesting to see what they do, iirc it was the last call where they said APAC flying was profitable finally - I suspect that the bulk will be related to the TYO operations being realigned with the new HND frequencies, I suspect that LAX-NRT & 1x of the DFW-NRT is either cut or transitioned to JAL and the new HND flight timings are announced.. kind of a long shot, but ORD-NRT may finally bite the dust and potentially a new Aussie flight depending on confidence in the new ATI with Qantas being approved..
1.4mm and counting...
 
JonNYC
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:07 am

airboss787 wrote:
The tweet from JonNYC specifically mentions that its not a new route. Unless I missed something, all of the replies talking about new routes are on the wrong track. Its probably going to be restructuring of routes to Asia by adjusting equipment and maybe frequency.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1137155083853017089

The OP here most definitely got the rumor from my tweet and my tweet alone.

And, as you and others point out-- NOT a new route, rather... exactly what I tweeted :)
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:14 am

JonNYC wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
The tweet from JonNYC specifically mentions that its not a new route. Unless I missed something, all of the replies talking about new routes are on the wrong track. Its probably going to be restructuring of routes to Asia by adjusting equipment and maybe frequency.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1137155083853017089

The OP here most definitely got the rumor from my tweet and my tweet alone.

And, as you and others point out-- NOT a new route, rather... exactly what I tweeted :)


It’s been mentioned like 5 times now... no one reads :banghead:
 
DeSpringbokke
Posts: 367
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:16 am

JonNYC wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
The tweet from JonNYC specifically mentions that its not a new route. Unless I missed something, all of the replies talking about new routes are on the wrong track. Its probably going to be restructuring of routes to Asia by adjusting equipment and maybe frequency.

https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1137155083853017089

The OP here most definitely got the rumor from my tweet and my tweet alone.

And, as you and others point out-- NOT a new route, rather... exactly what I tweeted :)


Thanks Jon for sharing all of your inside details for us. Whether it was revealing the now failed Zodiac seat to revealing new routes and even some that just missed the cut, like DFW-AUH. (Now that would've been something had it gone ahead!) From your twitter comments, I assume this is in regards to equipment changes. I think you tweeted earlier some months back that there were rumours of more 77Ws at LAX, thus a potential return to LAX-SYD with the approval of the JV with QF.
 
JonNYC
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:24 am

DeSpringbokke wrote:
...From your twitter comments, I assume this is in regards to equipment changes. I think you tweeted earlier some months back that there were rumours of more 77Ws at LAX, thus a potential return to LAX-SYD with the approval of the JV with QF.

I actually believe that is off now, SYD will stay 787. Actually in connection with this Asia rumor, in a way.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:26 pm

JonNYC wrote:
I actually believe that is off now, SYD will stay 787. Actually in connection with this Asia rumor, in a way.


This is is a stupid question but who will operate DFW-AKL?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:49 pm

Planes4you wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
I actually believe that is off now, SYD will stay 787. Actually in connection with this Asia rumor, in a way.


This is is a stupid question but who will operate DFW-AKL?


AA - I don’t think QF would operate long haul out of AKL.
 
codc10
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:53 pm

Hazard a guess?

Today:
AA175/176 DFW-NRT-DFW 772
AA61/62 DFW-NRT-DFW 772
AA169/170 LAX-NRT-LAX 788
AA27/28 LAX-HND-LAX 77W
AA153/154 ORD-NRT-ORD 788 (4x)

TBD:
AA175/176 DFW-HND-DFW 77W (new, DFW-NRT cut)
AA61/62 DFW-NRT-DFW 788 (switch to 788, all 787 at NRT)
AA169/170 LAX-HND-LAX 77W (new, LAX-NRT cut)
AA27/28 LAX-HND-LAX 77W

ORD-NRT gone (maybe)
HND is all 77W station
NRT is all 788 station
Last edited by codc10 on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5747
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:56 pm

Whatever route adjustments we’re talking, we can forget about China adds.

As for the EVA bus service, the majority of people on the bus to DFW are not coming just from TPE but rather places in Southeast Asia and specifically Vietnam. It’s doesnt really indicate demand from TPE alone.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
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janders
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:35 pm

I believe AA committed to keeping LAX-NRT during the HND route case. It was framed as getting an additional HND frequency at a different time to offer additional JAL beyond connectivity, not shifting existing NRT service.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:39 pm

codc10 wrote:
Hazard a guess?

Today:
AA175/176 DFW-NRT-DFW 772
AA61/62 DFW-NRT-DFW 772
AA169/170 LAX-NRT-LAX 788
AA27/28 LAX-HND-LAX 77W
AA153/154 ORD-NRT-ORD 788 (4x)

TBD:
AA175/176 DFW-HND-DFW 77W (new, DFW-NRT cut)
AA61/62 DFW-NRT-DFW 788 (switch to 788, all 787 at NRT)
AA169/170 LAX-HND-LAX 77W (new, LAX-NRT cut)
AA27/28 LAX-HND-LAX 77W

ORD-NRT gone (maybe)
HND is all 77W station
NRT is all 788 station


AA’s awarded DFW-HND slot is to be operated by a 772, at least that’s what AA posted. Are they allowed to upgauge?

Where would they get the 2 other 77Ws for HND? Cutting GRU/EZE’s 77Ws?

Also AA169/170 is a 789.
 
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chepos
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Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:47 pm

The new HND service out of LAX was proposed as a late evening LAX departure, operating with the 788. DFW was proposed as a 772. HND will not be an all 77W station.


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codc10
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:15 pm

Ishrion wrote:

AA’s awarded DFW-HND slot is to be operated by a 772, at least that’s what AA posted. Are they allowed to upgauge?

Where would they get the 2 other 77Ws for HND? Cutting GRU/EZE’s 77Ws?

Also AA169/170 is a 789.


Proposed equipment in the application is meaningless... just ask DL!

JonNYC mentions 77W, so this is just speculation on my part.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:47 pm

Regarding LAX-NRT, I also don't see AA dropping it.

The new LAX-HND flight will have an entirely different flight schedule so it does not create overlap, while AA/JL still send a ton of connections over NRT across Asia so the loss of capacity woud be significantly leaving only single daily JL flight.

On the other hand, I could see one of the DFW-NRT certainly get dropped when HND comes online as it will overlap schedule-wise. Combined AA/JL today run 3x daily to DFW from NRT, so reduction to 2x with the introduction of HND seems more logical.
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Varsity1
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:52 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Lots of posts about AA's 789 having only 30 J class seats, maybe AA should reconfigure he plans similar to Qantas. If the issue is the European routes don't need so many J class seats then AA needs two 789 configurations. AA needs to give themselves a chance in Asia with properly configured 787 aircraft, the 777 fleet is "properly" configured.


Thankfully, there’s a second wave of 789s coming in the next few years. That may allow AA to change some configs, but they want to minimize their subfleets as much as possible.


LHR requires more then 30 J class seats for their 789 fleet. AA needs to put in 12 or 16 more J class and 5 rows of Y+ for 35 Premium Economy seats on the 789. AA currently is ordering nice airplanes but configuring them awfully. Whoever is in charge if these decisions needs to loose their job. AA's Atlantic partner BA needs to show AA what a "properly" configured airplane looks like.


AA's -300ER is the premium airplane. 8F 52J.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Planes4you
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:02 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Planes4you wrote:
JonNYC wrote:
I actually believe that is off now, SYD will stay 787. Actually in connection with this Asia rumor, in a way.


This is is a stupid question but who will operate DFW-AKL?


AA - I don’t think QF would operate long haul out of AKL.


I was thinking about Air Nz which is also stupid of me
 
Planes4you
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Is it possible for JL to add a second flight out of DFW to NRT like with ORD?
 
MKIAZ
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:23 pm

You have to keep in mind, AA has probably the highest cost structure of any US airline and India is notoriously low yielding. There is too much competition from the ME3 and travellers are too price sensitive.

Here's my guess.
LAX-MEL
DFW-AKL
LAX-ICN
DFW-TPE
LAX-TPE

And the far out one I'll throw in, LAX-ADL. It's a bit far, but with QF's network and the JV, it might make sense to have the only US nonstop flight.


I would bet right now there is tons of premium traffic heading to ICN/TPE/SGN as companies are scrambling to move production out of China and into other Asian markets.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:50 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
You have to keep in mind, AA has probably the highest cost structure of any US airline and India is notoriously low yielding. There is too much competition from the ME3 and travellers are too price sensitive.

Here's my guess.
LAX-MEL
DFW-AKL
LAX-ICN
DFW-TPE
LAX-TPE

And the far out one I'll throw in, LAX-ADL. It's a bit far, but with QF's network and the JV, it might make sense to have the only US nonstop flight.


I would bet right now there is tons of premium traffic heading to ICN/TPE/SGN as companies are scrambling to move production out of China and into other Asian markets.

The author of the tweet referenced by the OP has said there won't be new routes announced.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Planes4you wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Planes4you wrote:

This is is a stupid question but who will operate DFW-AKL?


AA - I don’t think QF would operate long haul out of AKL.


I was thinking about Air Nz which is also stupid of me


I mean... this is regarding the AA/QF JV...
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:23 pm

jfk777 wrote:
AA needs to put in 12 or 16 more J class
jfk777 wrote:
AA's Atlantic partner BA needs to show AA what a "properly" configured airplane looks like.

BA? As in the airline that just introduced a J configuration that's going to significantly decrease the density, and number, of J/C seats per aircraft when introduced to respective fleet types?

You just contradicted yourself.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 235
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:31 am

B1168 wrote:
sagechan wrote:
jayunited wrote:

I'm going to assume your talking about PHL-DEL, that is doable with their 789s once Pakistani airspace reopens. As far as BNE I don't see AA entering that market anytime soon even if their JV with QF is approved, I can see them adding LAX-MEL at best. Also I don't see DFW-MEL or DFW-BNE on AA and the reason is once again AA overall seating arrangement on their 789s. In the winter UA's 789s with 252 can fly IAH-SYD with a full load and all their bags but nto an once of cargo because we are weight restricted. DFW-MEL is even further than which would require more fuel than IAH-SYD and with 285 seats on AA's 789s, in my opinion they would need to block rows nightly in the winter (which is the busy season for travel to Australia from the U.S.) on the DFW-MEL leg and it might be the same with DFW-BNE.
I could be wrong I but I think AA has to many seats on their 789s for them to be of any use to them on ultra long haul flights. One las thing UA's overall seat count will drop once UA begins Polaris and P.E. installation later this year because UA intends to keep a larger size business class cabin on our 789s, AA's 789's current seat count already includes all access to the aisle, lie flat business class and P.E. seats. If AA wants to use their 789s on ultra long haul routes (16.5 hours or longer) in my opinion they will need to reduce the number of seats in coach and add seat in business class. On these ultra long haul routes 30 seats isn't enough to satisfy demand, heck on some ultra long haul routes UA's 48 seats isn't enough to satisfy demand.


Agree that any DFW-Aussie will be done by QF due to AA's 789 config. AA LAX-MEL is probably definitely going to happen. AA to BNE happens if QF needs to free up frames for their routes, or doesn't happen otherwise. Don't expect more than mikor adds from AA until next batch of 787s arrive in a few years.


PHL-DEL... didn’t mean that. I actually meant DFW-DEL, but presumably a bit too far on AA 789.
AA’s relation with QF can be very intriguing. I do have something in my mind: is Adelaide sufficiently large in demand to see separate TPAC flights? ADL is acceptable in distance from LAX, and they have little means to get to US without SYD/MEL/BNE.


ADL may have the population to see TPAC services a few times a week. Problem would likely be yields (e.g Price Sensitive VFR (on both ends), Backpackers, School Holiday Disneyland crowd) with minimal (if any) high yield business demand ex-ADL to support a TPAC flight.
 
jfk777
Posts: 6973
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:57 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
AA needs to put in 12 or 16 more J class
jfk777 wrote:
AA's Atlantic partner BA needs to show AA what a "properly" configured airplane looks like.

BA? As in the airline that just introduced a J configuration that's going to significantly decrease the density, and number, of J/C seats per aircraft when introduced to respective fleet types?

You just contradicted yourself.


Whatever type of J class seat BA has their planes are better configured then AA, a BA 789 seats only about 200 passengers.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:25 am

jfk777 wrote:
Whatever type of J class seat BA has

....so you don't even know what it is you're comparing to? :irked:


jfk777 wrote:
their planes are better configured then AA

Except that the almost universal sentiment regarding BA's club world, is how H*O*R*R*I*B*L*E the current configuration actually is. :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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chepos
Posts: 6626
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:03 am

Having flown BA Club World on the 747, it is not the most premium experience out there . On the aircraft I have flown, it felt cramped and s bit outdated. Give me an AA 789 any day.




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B1168
Posts: 507
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Re: Rumour: AA Making Asia Route Adjustments

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:35 am

SCFlyer wrote:
B1168 wrote:
sagechan wrote:

Agree that any DFW-Aussie will be done by QF due to AA's 789 config. AA LAX-MEL is probably definitely going to happen. AA to BNE happens if QF needs to free up frames for their routes, or doesn't happen otherwise. Don't expect more than mikor adds from AA until next batch of 787s arrive in a few years.


PHL-DEL... didn’t mean that. I actually meant DFW-DEL, but presumably a bit too far on AA 789.
AA’s relation with QF can be very intriguing. I do have something in my mind: is Adelaide sufficiently large in demand to see separate TPAC flights? ADL is acceptable in distance from LAX, and they have little means to get to US without SYD/MEL/BNE.


ADL may have the population to see TPAC services a few times a week. Problem would likely be yields (e.g Price Sensitive VFR (on both ends), Backpackers, School Holiday Disneyland crowd) with minimal (if any) high yield business demand ex-ADL to support a TPAC flight.


Well... if they are backpackers, maybe HNL and optimized connection to the mainland could work on 788 I guess? I am pretty sure that the load available left for a 788 flying LAX-ADL will be marginal if even enough to stuff in 220 passengers, yet a 789 will be excessive. That can be an exclusive spot that AA take to better secure their position in the US-Australian market, but that’s not high on list.

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