mattyfitzg
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Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:41 pm

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1988158/1- ... ia-flight/

She apparently "pressed the button" to open the door, thinking it was a toilet, thus releasing the "airbag shoot".........
Last time I checked, Triple 7 doors needed more than a button :lol:

The story does check out though, AP-BHW operating flight PK702 last night departed nearly 8 hours late.
 
Antarius
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:44 pm

The most telling part of this is that they only had 37 passengers to offload.
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chepos
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:53 pm

Were was the crew? Did they not notice someone standing and walking around after the plane had pushed back. And did anyone notice a passenger fussing with the door. Being familiar with 777 doors, it takes more than pressing a button to operate the door.


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Prost
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:26 pm

777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:19 pm

Prost wrote:
777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.

The last time I flew in a 777 they didn't mention this detail; so how are we supposed to know.....

The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

To state the obvious; there has to be a compromise between making it difficult (to avoid accidental deployment), and making it easy (for when you actually need it in a hurry)

Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:28 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o


That shouldn't happen because by the time pax are ready to exit the plane, the doors should have already been "set to manual and cross-checked".

As for the flight in question, what the heck were the crew doing? How did they not see the woman leave her seat and move to the back of the plane?

Then again, one has to wonder about the standard of reporting when we're told "Authorities say that the plane’s airbag chute had opened by mistake due to lack of PIA staff the day earlier." and that "PIA’s spokesperson Mashood Tajwar said that the incident is being probed, adding that, “The plane was parked on the runway when the airbag chute opened, so there was no threat of any kind.”

What? :crazy: :confused:
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Antarius
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:50 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Prost wrote:
777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.

The last time I flew in a 777 they didn't mention this detail; so how are we supposed to know.....

The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

To state the obvious; there has to be a compromise between making it difficult (to avoid accidental deployment), and making it easy (for when you actually need it in a hurry)

Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o


Impossible. It is a giant metal handle that has to be rotated 180 degrees. Only then, if the door is armed, can the slide deploy outside. You can't even fall on it as the first movement is upwards.

Image

This simply takes a special kind of stupid to mistake for anything but an exit.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:18 pm

Antarius wrote:
The most telling part of this is that they only had 37 passengers to offload.


The flight departed with 333 pax, it didn't just have 37 pax on it. They had to offload 37 pax due to the 'door inop' procedures.
 
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:19 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Prost wrote:
777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.
The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

If the slide is armed, you open the door, and it automatically deploys. I'm not aware of any way for it to be deployed with the door closed since the slide itself is packed into the door.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:28 pm

User001 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The most telling part of this is that they only had 37 passengers to offload.


The flight departed with 333 pax, it didn't just have 37 pax on it. They had to offload 37 pax due to the 'door inop' procedures.


Ah ha.
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KingB123
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:39 pm

hahaha, the best part to the story is that the woman thought that it was a lavatory door.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:59 pm

What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?
 
Antarius
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:07 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?


No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated/lifted from its lock when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:56 pm

I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines like this not just because of the crew inattention but the stupidity of the passengers too. It’s interesting to note the difference in passengers by airline and destination and their behaviour. Maybe I will start a thread on it.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:58 pm

The aircraft had just received push back clearance when the slide was deployed. Luckily nobody was injured on the ground, aircraft hadn’t started moving yet. Think it was closer to 50 pax offloaded due to pax per emergency exit rules, does really beg the question of what the cabin crew were doing at the time, allowing pax to move around the aircraft on push back, leaving an armed door unattended when the aircraft was about to depart.
 
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:14 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Prost wrote:
The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?


Before take off the crew gets a command to “arm doors and cross check” - you’ve probably heard it before.

The crew will then “arm” the slide so that when the door is opened in an emergency, the slide will deploy automatically. The cross check is where flight attendants from opposite sides of the cabin then check that the door has been armed correctly.

After landing there’s usually a command to “disarm doors” - crucial this is done so the slide doesn’t deploy into the jet bridge operator’s face when deboarding (they don’t appreciate it much). :)
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:15 pm

steveinbc wrote:
I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines like this not just because of the crew inattention but the stupidity of the passengers too. It’s interesting to note the difference in passengers by airline and destination and their behaviour. Maybe I will start a thread on it.


Well, that would be in line with the calibre of most new threads recently. :roll:
 
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:16 pm

Antarius wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?

No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated (...) when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.

Are aircraft "pressurized" before take off? In that case it would be rather strange to speak of pressurization as the air pressure inside the cabin of the aircraft would be lower than outside. I thought aircraft are pressurized during climb out to cruise level.
 
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:29 pm

KingB123 wrote:
hahaha, the best part to the story is that the woman thought that it was a lavatory door.

I hope she had a change of clothes handy.
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Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:58 pm

    steveinbc wrote:
    I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines like this not just because of the crew inattention but the stupidity of the passengers too. It’s interesting to note the difference in passengers by airline and destination and their behaviour. Maybe I will start a thread on it.

    Okay, so don't fly United, American, Delta, Lufthansa, or Virgin Atlantic. Got it.

    http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/08/unit ... lide/24949
    https://fox5sandiego.com/2015/09/21/ame ... o-airport/
    https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/planes-eme ... rs-1868966
    https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2016-1 ... r-airport/
    viewtopic.php?t=1403357
    Last edited by AirKevin on Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:01 pm

    The reason only 37 passengers had to be off loaded is that they probably decided to take off without reinstalling the slide. At least per FAA regulations that is ok as long as you remove a certain number of passengers so that there are enough operational slides. This happened to me many years ago on a Continental 777 out of TLV to Newark when a new flight attendant mistakenly opened the door prior to takeoff after it was armed and the emergency slide deployed (poor woman- it is usually grounds for firing). About 50 passengers were rebooked on alternative flights and we took off for Newark with one door inoperational . The aircraft was on the ground at Newark for approximately a day and the chute reinstalled. From the crew i understood that it is a very costly event.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:24 pm

    Antarius wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?


    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated/lifted from its lock when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.


    777 doors are plug type? I thought the older types (737, etc.) were plug type (the door is larger than the hole and must fall inward before opening sideways) but that the newer ones that open out, without first falling inward a bit, weren't plug type. Or do they move upward first, then open out, so pressure still holds it closed? Is the mechanism different than older narrow bodies?
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:31 pm

    cschleic wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?


    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated/lifted from its lock when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.


    777 doors are plug type? I thought the older types (737, etc.) were plug type (the door is larger than the hole and must fall inward before opening sideways) but that the newer ones that open out, without first falling inward a bit, weren't plug type. Or do they move upward first, then open out, so pressure still holds it closed? Is the mechanism different than older narrow bodies?


    777 doors rise and then swing out, similar to the a332. So functionally still a plug.

    The 737, 747, 757 etc move inwards and then have do be rotated out
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:53 pm

    cschleic wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?

    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated/lifted from its lock when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.

    777 doors are plug type? I thought the older types (737, etc.) were plug type (the door is larger than the hole and must fall inward before opening sideways) but that the newer ones that open out, without first falling inward a bit, weren't plug type. Or do they move upward first, then open out, so pressure still holds it closed? Is the mechanism different than older narrow bodies?

    Look closely at the door in this video. You'll see it move up, then out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJFoMH98yHo
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:08 pm

    steveinbc wrote:
    I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines like this not just because of the crew inattention but the stupidity of the passengers too. It’s interesting to note the difference in passengers by airline and destination and their behaviour. Maybe I will start a thread on it.


    I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines who's pilots attempt to land on top of other airplanes on taxiways, like you know, Air Canada?
    It’s interesting to note the ignorance laden within some comments, such as yours above.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:21 pm

    SheikhDjibouti wrote:
    Prost wrote:
    777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.

    The last time I flew in a 777 they didn't mention this detail; so how are we supposed to know.....

    The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

    To state the obvious; there has to be a compromise between making it difficult (to avoid accidental deployment), and making it easy (for when you actually need it in a hurry)

    Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
    Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o


    Except they rotate upward first so they would not open from gravity. Also the slide deploys when the door opens after its set.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:50 pm

    MartijnNL wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?

    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated (...) when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.

    Are aircraft "pressurized" before take off? In that case it would be rather strange to speak of pressurization as the air pressure inside the cabin of the aircraft would be lower than outside. I thought aircraft are pressurized during climb out to cruise level.


    There is no way for the air pressure inside to be lower than outside, you'd need vacuum pumps for that.
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:11 am

    Capt.Fantastic wrote:
    steveinbc wrote:
    I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines like this not just because of the crew inattention but the stupidity of the passengers too. It’s interesting to note the difference in passengers by airline and destination and their behaviour. Maybe I will start a thread on it.


    I’m wondering if one should avoid airlines who's pilots attempt to land on top of other airplanes on taxiways, like you know, Air Canada?
    It’s interesting to note the ignorance laden within some comments, such as yours above.


    Brilliant response! I've flown several times with PIA and the pax were fantastic, not noisy and no drunks (no alcohol on board). Probably the worst destinations and behaviour would be the holiday makers flying LCCs like Ryanair (not regular fliers) within Europe who tank up in the bar before flight with flights have to divert due to drunkenness and air rage. Of course, Steveinbc would probably overlook these due to the ethnicity of the pax.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:44 am

    Ha ha ha. I love that Anetters are quick to judge and call people out. My post was meant to be sarcastic and the self righteous clearly lack humour as well as a sense of proportion.
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:02 am

    steveinbc wrote:
    Ha ha ha. I love that Anetters are quick to judge and call people out. My post was meant to be sarcastic and the self righteous clearly lack humour as well as a sense of proportion.


    Oh no doubt...the holier than thou are always in full force here. The view must generally be nice from that high pedestal of theirs
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:18 am

    Aesma wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated (...) when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.

    Are aircraft "pressurized" before take off? In that case it would be rather strange to speak of pressurization as the air pressure inside the cabin of the aircraft would be lower than outside. I thought aircraft are pressurized during climb out to cruise level.



    There is no way for the air pressure inside to be lower than outside, you'd need vacuum pumps for that.


    Actually if you descend faster than the normal depressurization schedule you can get to a lower inside pressure than outside so there are panels on the airplane that open inwards to prevent a large negative pressure differential from occurring.
    .
    During takeoff roll airplanes are pressurized a small amount to prevent a bump in pressurization after takeoff. IIRC due to a problem with that system after the first flight of the 757 (or 767) the test crew couldn't initially get the doors open.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:47 am

    Antarius wrote:
    SheikhDjibouti wrote:
    Prost wrote:
    777 you rotate the handle to open the door, there is no button.

    The last time I flew in a 777 they didn't mention this detail; so how are we supposed to know.....

    The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

    To state the obvious; there has to be a compromise between making it difficult (to avoid accidental deployment), and making it easy (for when you actually need it in a hurry)

    Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
    Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o


    Impossible. It is a giant metal handle that has to be rotated 180 degrees. Only then, if the door is armed, can the slide deploy outside. You can't even fall on it as the first movement is upwards.

    Image

    This simply takes a special kind of stupid to mistake for anything but an exit.


    There are a few more steps to arm a door than just turning the door handle. This woman intentionally opened this door. I don’t care how stupid you are, you know how to differentiate an exit from a lav door
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:22 am

    4engines4lnghll wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    SheikhDjibouti wrote:
    The last time I flew in a 777 they didn't mention this detail; so how are we supposed to know.....

    The critical point is not what method is required to open the door, but what method is used to deploy the slide? Is that a simple push button?

    To state the obvious; there has to be a compromise between making it difficult (to avoid accidental deployment), and making it easy (for when you actually need it in a hurry)

    Picture this; an elderly passenger, exhausted after a long flight, carefully watching their feet as they shuffle towards the doorway, overbalances and reaches out a hand to stabilize themselves.
    Whoosh, bang - how did that happen..... :o


    Impossible. It is a giant metal handle that has to be rotated 180 degrees. Only then, if the door is armed, can the slide deploy outside. You can't even fall on it as the first movement is upwards.

    Image

    This simply takes a special kind of stupid to mistake for anything but an exit.


    There are a few more steps to arm a door than just turning the door handle. This woman intentionally opened this door. I don’t care how stupid you are, you know how to differentiate an exit from a lav door


    To arm the door all you need to do is move the door select handle to the ARM position which the FA would have already done.

    After that to open the door you only need to rotate the big metal handle and with the door armed power assist takes over, the door opens and the slide blows -- very simple.

    At an airspeed greater than 80 kts the door is locked.
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 am

    Going back to what the crew were doing, I can't really speak for now, but back in the late 90s I worked as a catering loader at Manchester. Back then PIA stopped all their flights to and from the USA in Manchester as the 747 aircraft couldn't make it all the way. Coming from the USA the passenger's would stay on board and were supposed to remain seated.

    Imagine my surprise then when I'm stood at the back of the truck servicing through the R2 door 30ft in the air, and I turn round to see 2 passengers just wander in. To top it off there was a member of cabin crew watching on from the door doing absolutely nothing.

    This airline had a really bad reputation at Manchester back then with similar incidents happening on a weekly basis. Looks like nothing has changed.....
     
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:40 am

    Going back to what the crew were doing, I can't really speak for now, but back in the late 90s I worked as a catering loader at Manchester. Back then PIA stopped all their flights to and from the USA in Manchester as the 747 aircraft couldn't make it all the way. Coming from the USA the passenger's would stay on board and were supposed to remain seated.

    Imagine my surprise then when I'm stood at the back of the truck servicing through the R2 door 30ft in the air, and I turn round to see 2 passengers just wander in. To top it off there was a member of cabin crew watching on from the door doing absolutely nothing.

    This airline had a really bad reputation at Manchester back then with similar incidents happening on a weekly basis. Looks like nothing has changed.....
     
    Fatbus
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:40 am

    This simply takes a special kind of stupid to mistake for anything but an exit.
    Perfect quote !

    Also it takes a special kind of stupid to come up with some of the other causes!
     
    eagles94
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:44 am

    Everyone is way over complicating this.
    The door would have already been “armed” by the crew.
    A good upwards pull on the door locking handle and the power assist would have kicked in, and opened the door, deploying the slide.

    There’s nothing else to it, other than why did she think it was a toilet :lol:
     
    zappomatic
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:10 am

    The majority of aircraft door mechanisms take quite a determined shove to move the handle or lever, so you do have to wonder how the passenger didn’t wonder why it was so difficult to open a toilet door. It’s also lucky for the passenger that the power assist on the door didn’t throw her out of the aircraft as these things move with some force!
     
    Max Q
    Posts: 7554
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    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:41 am

    sportzbar wrote:
    Going back to what the crew were doing, I can't really speak for now, but back in the late 90s I worked as a catering loader at Manchester. Back then PIA stopped all their flights to and from the USA in Manchester as the 747 aircraft couldn't make it all the way. Coming from the USA the passenger's would stay on board and were supposed to remain seated.

    Imagine my surprise then when I'm stood at the back of the truck servicing through the R2 door 30ft in the air, and I turn round to see 2 passengers just wander in. To top it off there was a member of cabin crew watching on from the door doing absolutely nothing.

    This airline had a really bad reputation at Manchester back then with similar incidents happening on a weekly basis. Looks like nothing has changed.....



    Along those lines you tube has some interesting clips of their 747’s barely clearing the end of the runway on departure from Man
    The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


    Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
     
    senatorflyer
    Posts: 322
    Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:57 am

    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:44 am

    MartijnNL wrote:
    Antarius wrote:
    MartijnNL wrote:
    What if this would have happened shortly after take off, at low altitude? Can the door still be opened that easily?

    No, it cannot be opened. Cabin air pressure > outside pressure and the doors are of a plug type. As a result, the door cannot be rotated (...) when the cabin is pressurized, ensuring that the door remains sealed.

    Are aircraft "pressurized" before take off? In that case it would be rather strange to speak of pressurization as the air pressure inside the cabin of the aircraft would be lower than outside. I thought aircraft are pressurized during climb out to cruise level.


    The A320 family is pressurised on the ground. Not sure if there are other types as well.
     
    BAeRJ100
    Posts: 391
    Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

    Re: Passenger blows slide on PIA 777 at Manchester

    Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:55 am

    zappomatic wrote:
    The majority of aircraft door mechanisms take quite a determined shove to move the handle or lever, so you do have to wonder how the passenger didn’t wonder why it was so difficult to open a toilet door.


    Exactly. And the power assist feature that most doors have doesn't take over as quickly as some people are trying to make out. The handle must be in the "OPEN" position and in many cases you need to give the door a bit of a shove to get it moving for the assist to take over.
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