Tikchik
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DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:00 am

AA has 7 daily scheduled 777's DFW-HNL/OGG/KOA during the Christmas season compared to only a daily DL ATL-HNL 330 and a daily UA IAH-HNL 777 respectfully. Worth noting are the other non West Coast flights that capture connecting traffic and pull feed away from ATL, IAH & DFW.

UA has daily flights from IAD/EWR/ORD-HNL along with a less than daily ORD-OGG. A mix of 763, 764, 777

DL has daily flights from MSP/JFK-HNL A mix of 330, 763

AA has a double daily ORD-HNL. 788

AA's DFW/HI network is impressive compared to DL at ATL or UA at IAH. What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL? Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?
 
rjmf22
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am

Tikchik wrote:
AA has 7 daily scheduled 777's DFW-HNL/OGG/KOA during the Christmas season compared to only a daily DL ATL-HNL 330 and a daily UA IAH-HNL 777 respectfully. Worth noting are the other non West Coast flights that capture connecting traffic and pull feed away from ATL, IAH & DFW.

UA has daily flights from IAD/EWR/ORD-HNL along with a less than daily ORD-OGG. A mix of 763, 764, 777

DL has daily flights from MSP/JFK-HNL A mix of 330, 763

AA has a double daily ORD-HNL. 788

AA's DFW/HI network is impressive compared to DL at ATL or UA at IAH. What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL? Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?


AA only flies to hawaii from DFW, LAX, PHX and ORD, if i'm not mistaken, which means they have to funnel all of their Hawaii traffic through 4 cities, with DFW being the most prominent.

UA on the other hand flies to Hawaii from SFO, DEN, IAD, IAH, EWR, LAX, ORD, as well as Tokyo, Guam, and Majuro, so they have a much bigger network, operating 40 daily flights (!) to all five islands. I believe UA has the biggest presence in Hawaii.

DL is a similar story,operating to Hawaii from LAX, SLC, SEA, MSP, ATL, DTW, Osaka, Tokyo, and Nagoya.

UA and DL have their routes spread out and offer a lot more service through their hubs than AA does, and don't send a majority of their flights through one city, as AA appears to be doing.
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Delta28L
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 am

Delta has a Hawaii flight from SLC as well. HNL is served by a 757
 
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RWA380
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:22 am

rjmf22 wrote:
Tikchik wrote:
AA has 7 daily scheduled 777's DFW-HNL/OGG/KOA during the Christmas season compared to only a daily DL ATL-HNL 330 and a daily UA IAH-HNL 777 respectfully. Worth noting are the other non West Coast flights that capture connecting traffic and pull feed away from ATL, IAH & DFW.

UA has daily flights from IAD/EWR/ORD-HNL along with a less than daily ORD-OGG. A mix of 763, 764, 777

DL has daily flights from MSP/JFK-HNL A mix of 330, 763

AA has a double daily ORD-HNL. 788

AA's DFW/HI network is impressive compared to DL at ATL or UA at IAH. What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL? Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?


AA only flies to hawaii from DFW, LAX, PHX and ORD, if i'm not mistaken, which means they have to funnel all of their Hawaii traffic through 4 cities, with DFW being the most prominent.

UA on the other hand flies to Hawaii from SFO, DEN, IAD, IAH, EWR, LAX, ORD, as well as Tokyo, Guam, and Majuro, so they have a much bigger network, operating 40 daily flights (!) to all five islands. I believe UA has the biggest presence in Hawaii.

DL is a similar story,operating to Hawaii from LAX, SLC, SEA, MSP, ATL, DTW, Osaka, Tokyo, and Nagoya.

UA and DL have their routes spread out and offer a lot more service through their hubs than AA does, and don't send a majority of their flights through one city, as AA appears to be doing.


I have also heard UA offers the most lift to Hawaii than other carriers, one small correction, UA flies to five cities on four Islands in Hawaii, by no means a criticism, surely just a mistake.
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Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:26 am

7 777s daily from DFW? There’s 3x HNL: 2x on 772 and 1x on a 788 if I’m not mistaken, where are the other frequencies going to? 2x OGG/KOA?
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:33 am

Ishrion wrote:
7 777s daily from DFW? There’s 3x HNL: 2x on 772 and 1x on a 788 if I’m not mistaken, where are the other frequencies going to? 2x OGG/KOA?


3x HNL
3x OGG
1x KOA

That is a lot of capacity. They are charging $1300+ fares in economy. The likely are pulling down Transatlantic and transpacific flying that season.
 
Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:52 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
7 777s daily from DFW? There’s 3x HNL: 2x on 772 and 1x on a 788 if I’m not mistaken, where are the other frequencies going to? 2x OGG/KOA?


3x HNL
3x OGG
1x KOA

That is a lot of capacity. They are charging $1300+ fares in economy. The likely are pulling down Transatlantic and transpacific flying that season.


Wow, what’re the aircraft used on 3x OGG? All 772?

If the AA/QF JV has been approved much earlier, I’d bet they wouldn’t be flying this much to HI.

Next year though, they might decrease that in favor of Oceania. Although, they will begin receiving more 788s next year.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
7 777s daily from DFW? There’s 3x HNL: 2x on 772 and 1x on a 788 if I’m not mistaken, where are the other frequencies going to? 2x OGG/KOA?


3x HNL
3x OGG
1x KOA

That is a lot of capacity. They are charging $1300+ fares in economy. The likely are pulling down Transatlantic and transpacific flying that season.


Wow, what’re the aircraft used on 3x OGG? All 772?

If the AA/QF JV has been approved much earlier, I’d bet they wouldn’t be flying this much to HI.

Next year though, they might decrease that in favor of Oceania. Although, they will begin receiving more 788s next year.


AA is running many flights from DFW in addition to LAX and PHX but no one compares to the capacity UA has to Hawaii since SFO and LAX have so much capacity

UA is running from SFO

6x HNL
5x OGG
4x KOA
2x LIH


From LAX
6x HNL
3x OGG
3x KOA
2x LIH
1x ITO
 
77H
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:40 am

Keep in mind that AA only offers this capacity during select peak periods from DFW. Also, can you cite a source on AA double daily from ORD? I’m not aware of this? DL and UA in contrast offer a more robust capacity and route portfolio to/from Hawaii year around.

AA chooses to funnel East Coast South East and Midwest connecting pax thru DFW whereas UA chooses to funnel pax over DEN and SFO. DL in turn funnels connecting pax over different hubs. In this instance it has nothing to do with the DFW market, more so to do with the strength of the hub and individual airline preference. AA could have chosen to split service between DFW and PHX if it desired.

Some small corrections to the OP.
UA’s ORD-OGG is year around, usually Saturday only but increases in frequency during peaks, similar to AA’s peak adds. UA is currently at 3 77A’s to OGG (DEN, ORD, SFO) and upwards of 10 WBs to HNL (EWR, DEN, IAD, IAH, ORD, 3-4x SFO, LAX in addition to NB service. Also, keep in mind that UA operates 772s with a denser configuration than AA so on any given flight, UA has more seats it can fill. I’d imagine if AA had a more dense config, they wouldn’t be running upwards of 3 daily flights. Lastly, AA isn’t as strong internationally as a whole compared to UA. They pulled down Asian significantly for example. This provided slack in their WB fleet that could be deployed elsewhere, domestically. A luxury UA doesn’t have, even with the largest WB fleet.

77H
 
B1168
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:42 am

I counted a bit and found 25 daily flights from HNL right now. If including the new Christmas add, it may be between 26 and 28. I would not be surprised if AA were to enter the Hawaii-Australian market——their low J class ratio make the perfect plane to do so, and a seasonal daily to BNE/SYD can totally work as an extension of the upcoming 3rd DFW-HNL frequency should the JV be approved.
 
Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:56 am

B1168 wrote:
I counted a bit and found 25 daily flights from HNL right now. If including the new Christmas add, it may be between 26 and 28. I would not be surprised if AA were to enter the Hawaii-Australian market——their low J class ratio make the perfect plane to do so, and a seasonal daily to BNE/SYD can totally work as an extension of the upcoming 3rd DFW-HNL frequency should the JV be approved.


HI-Australia on AA would be really interesting...

Of the US3, AA is the only one that doesn’t have a “base” in HNL, flying to other destinations besides its U.S. hubs.

DL: Tokyo/Nagoya, etc.
UA: Island hopper/Guam.

HNL-Australia would be around 5,500mi I believe, which would allow them to avoid possible restrictions from DFW if needed. Could they do something like DFW-HNL-MEL on a 788?
 
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drerx7
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:00 am

No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.
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Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:04 am

drerx7 wrote:
No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.


If - and IF - which this is pure anut speculation, they would have to source the aircraft from somewhere to start it.
 
BooDog
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:17 am

drerx7 wrote:
No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.


Nope. DFW-MEL direct is 9,000 miles. DFW-HNL-MEL is 9,300 miles.
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77H
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:57 am

B1168 wrote:
I counted a bit and found 25 daily flights from HNL right now. If including the new Christmas add, it may be between 26 and 28. I would not be surprised if AA were to enter the Hawaii-Australian market——their low J class ratio make the perfect plane to do so, and a seasonal daily to BNE/SYD can totally work as an extension of the upcoming 3rd DFW-HNL frequency should the JV be approved.


What does AA gain by adding HNL-Oz service? AA has a JV with JL yet is 1 airline on a very short list of airlines that doesn’t serve TYO-HNL which is a far larger market. I don’t see it happening. As it is QF isn’t even daily to HNL from SYD and don’t serve MEL at all. They switch off with low cost, no frills JQ several times a week on SYD and JQ is the only airline from MEL.

77H
 
B1168
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:48 pm

77H wrote:
B1168 wrote:
I counted a bit and found 25 daily flights from HNL right now. If including the new Christmas add, it may be between 26 and 28. I would not be surprised if AA were to enter the Hawaii-Australian market——their low J class ratio make the perfect plane to do so, and a seasonal daily to BNE/SYD can totally work as an extension of the upcoming 3rd DFW-HNL frequency should the JV be approved.


What does AA gain by adding HNL-Oz service? AA has a JV with JL yet is 1 airline on a very short list of airlines that doesn’t serve TYO-HNL which is a far larger market. I don’t see it happening. As it is QF isn’t even daily to HNL from SYD and don’t serve MEL at all. They switch off with low cost, no frills JQ several times a week on SYD and JQ is the only airline from MEL.

77H


Yes, indeed. But well, don’t forget that AA itself isn’t some luxurious airline in the first place. Also remember that they can prove to DOT that their decision is right.
 
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drerx7
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:38 pm

A MEL tag on AA metal is pointless.
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EvanWSFO
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:08 pm

BooDog wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.


Nope. DFW-MEL direct is 9,000 miles. DFW-HNL-MEL is 9,300 miles.


Add in the ground time, and it is out of the way. AA from HI seems unlikely given QANTAS (I think they still fly it) and Jetstar serve HNL.
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BooDog
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:53 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
BooDog wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.


Nope. DFW-MEL direct is 9,000 miles. DFW-HNL-MEL is 9,300 miles.


Add in the ground time, and it is out of the way. AA from HI seems unlikely given QANTAS (I think they still fly it) and Jetstar serve HNL.


Qantas, Jetstar and Hawaiian run SYD-HNL. Only Jetstar serves MEL-HNL. I agree that AA from HNL is unlikely.
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KanaHawaii
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm

What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL?
AA has built up almost an omnipresence in Dallas over the years, with the flights from Hawaii easily connecting to just about anyplace going east of the continental divide to get you there by 12 noon or 1 p.m. the next day after leaving Honolulu. I think the presence at DFW for American is even more emphasized in which they also allow Hawaii people one-stop service to Europe from DFW. Its footprint at LAX is big enough and enough service given from LAX to take care of just about all the major cities west of the continental divide.

Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?
AA uses widebodies on a sporatic basis from LAX, using the A321 as the workhorse on that route. It just depends on what time of year your travelling, as you may get a widebody from LAX from time to time
 
braniff2hav
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:39 pm

I cannot help but think that the South Central/Texas/South East were primed for Hawaii thanks to the pioneering efforts of Braniff International. AA began competing with Braniff on this DFW HNL route just before BN was 'finished' or maybe it was just afterwards. Braniff heavily promoted its service to Honolulu on a 747. I think many in Texas and the surrounding areas have an affection for Hawaii and many travelers will consider Hawaii as they would going to the Caribbean on vacation to some degree. DFW (previously DAL) had service to Hawaii non-stop well before places like ATL and Houston and SLC and either some NE Cities. So there is that little bit of influence to consider.
 
Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:43 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL?
AA has built up almost an omnipresence in Dallas over the years, with the flights from Hawaii easily connecting to just about anyplace going east of the continental divide to get you there by 12 noon or 1 p.m. the next day after leaving Honolulu. I think the presence at DFW for American is even more emphasized in which they also allow Hawaii people one-stop service to Europe from DFW. Its footprint at LAX is big enough and enough service given from LAX to take care of just about all the major cities west of the continental divide.

Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?
AA uses widebodies on a sporatic basis from LAX, using the A321 as the workhorse on that route. It just depends on what time of year your travelling, as you may get a widebody from LAX from time to time


AA used to operate 767s on LAX-HNL I believe... although, a couple weeks ago they subbed in a 789 for an A321 because of an ETOPS issue.
 
DDR
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:02 am

braniff2hav wrote:
I cannot help but think that the South Central/Texas/South East were primed for Hawaii thanks to the pioneering efforts of Braniff International. AA began competing with Braniff on this DFW HNL route just before BN was 'finished' or maybe it was just afterwards. Braniff heavily promoted its service to Honolulu on a 747. I think many in Texas and the surrounding areas have an affection for Hawaii and many travelers will consider Hawaii as they would going to the Caribbean on vacation to some degree. DFW (previously DAL) had service to Hawaii non-stop well before places like ATL and Houston and SLC and either some NE Cities. So there is that little bit of influence to consider.


AA and BN both ran DFW-HNL prior to Braniff’s bankruptcy. AA flew the DC-10 for a time if I’m remembering correctly.
 
braniff2hav
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:52 am

DDR wrote:
braniff2hav wrote:
I cannot help but think that the South Central/Texas/South East were primed for Hawaii thanks to the pioneering efforts of Braniff International. AA began competing with Braniff on this DFW HNL route just before BN was 'finished' or maybe it was just afterwards. Braniff heavily promoted its service to Honolulu on a 747. I think many in Texas and the surrounding areas have an affection for Hawaii and many travelers will consider Hawaii as they would going to the Caribbean on vacation to some degree. DFW (previously DAL) had service to Hawaii non-stop well before places like ATL and Houston and SLC and either some NE Cities. So there is that little bit of influence to consider.


AA and BN both ran DFW-HNL prior to Braniff’s bankruptcy. AA flew the DC-10 for a time if I’m remembering correctly.



I'm very surprised that I didn't remember this .. they did run simultaneously. As I new recall I think AA began their non-stop service on June 11, 1981 - the same day they did a massive expansion out of DFW and BN operated DFW HNL up to the day they ceased operations in May 1982. I was on the inaugural of AA's non-stop and completely forgot! AA started with a Dc10, then it went to B767 and now 777. I'm not sure they would have ever operated that route with a 747. Other cities they did operated 747's through HNL to the S. Pacific as I recall.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 am

Ishrion wrote:
KanaHawaii wrote:
What allows AA to generate so much traffic from non West coast cities compared to UA or DL?
AA has built up almost an omnipresence in Dallas over the years, with the flights from Hawaii easily connecting to just about anyplace going east of the continental divide to get you there by 12 noon or 1 p.m. the next day after leaving Honolulu. I think the presence at DFW for American is even more emphasized in which they also allow Hawaii people one-stop service to Europe from DFW. Its footprint at LAX is big enough and enough service given from LAX to take care of just about all the major cities west of the continental divide.

Will we see AA wide bodies again from LAX in the future?
AA uses widebodies on a sporatic basis from LAX, using the A321 as the workhorse on that route. It just depends on what time of year your travelling, as you may get a widebody from LAX from time to time


AA used to operate 767s on LAX-HNL I believe... although, a couple weeks ago they subbed in a 789 for an A321 because of an ETOPS issue.


Heck, I remember when they flew DC-10-10's to LAX all the time. In fact that was the only plane at one point that American used for its Honolulu service. When they finally got the ETOPS certification for the 757/767's, they wasted no time swapping out the 10's for 757's and 767's. In fact there were times when they used the 767-200's decked out in their transcon orientation for LAX-HNL flights.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:39 am

Interesting thread. A few past Midwest routes worth noting:

DFW-LIH AA 763
STL-HNL AA/TW 763
STL-OGG AA/TW 763
CVG-HNL DL 764
ATL-OGG DL 763
CLT-HNL US 762

Of course if you go really far back you have stuff like DAL-ITO, ORD-ITO, and Western did MSP-HNL on occasion. AA did STL-HNL on a 707. UA did JFK-HNL and BWI-HNL on a DC-8-62.
 
B1168
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:44 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Interesting thread. A few past Midwest routes worth noting:

DFW-LIH AA 763
STL-HNL AA/TW 763
STL-OGG AA/TW 763
CVG-HNL DL 764
ATL-OGG DL 763
CLT-HNL US 762

Of course if you go really far back you have stuff like DAL-ITO, ORD-ITO, and Western did MSP-HNL on occasion. AA did STL-HNL on a 707. UA did JFK-HNL and BWI-HNL on a DC-8-62.


If WN is okay with minor load issues, they can start DAL-ITO on 737 MAX 7, buy flying and selling tickets are separate issues.
 
MGC1191
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:58 am

I have a question as a local resident of the 704;

If US Airways could ((sorta)) do HNL from CLT with their old 762s, would it be possible to American to make it work with the A330s?

Before anyone says “Maybe the could use (insert AA widebody)” this is CLT we are talking about, the unloved red headed stepchild of the AA network and we’ve learned better than to ask Führer Parker for nice things.. aka anything besides A330s.
 
Ishrion
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:01 am

MGC1191 wrote:
I have a question as a local resident of the 704;

If US Airways could ((sorta)) do HNL from CLT with their old 762s, would it be possible to American to make it work with the A330s?

Before anyone says “Maybe the could use (insert AA widebody)” this is CLT we are talking about, the unloved red headed stepchild of the AA network and we’ve learned better than to ask Führer Parker for nice things.. aka anything besides A330s.


AA runs an A330 seasonally on CLT-PHX-HNL, they’re most likely sending their traffic there.

They might not see enough passengers to have CLT-HNL run healthily, hence the stop in PHX. But who knows, AA has surprised us.
 
MGC1191
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:06 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA runs an A330 seasonally on CLT-PHX-HNL, they’re most likely sending their traffic there.

They might not see enough passengers to have CLT-HNL run healthily, hence the stop in PHX. But who knows, AA has surprised us.


Didn’t know the PHX 330 was a thru flight to HNL. Interesting.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:12 am

Honorable mention for past Hawaii service is Westerns HNL-ANC-LGW.
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77H
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:33 am

B1168 wrote:
77H wrote:
B1168 wrote:
I counted a bit and found 25 daily flights from HNL right now. If including the new Christmas add, it may be between 26 and 28. I would not be surprised if AA were to enter the Hawaii-Australian market——their low J class ratio make the perfect plane to do so, and a seasonal daily to BNE/SYD can totally work as an extension of the upcoming 3rd DFW-HNL frequency should the JV be approved.


What does AA gain by adding HNL-Oz service? AA has a JV with JL yet is 1 airline on a very short list of airlines that doesn’t serve TYO-HNL which is a far larger market. I don’t see it happening. As it is QF isn’t even daily to HNL from SYD and don’t serve MEL at all. They switch off with low cost, no frills JQ several times a week on SYD and JQ is the only airline from MEL.

77H


Yes, indeed. But well, don’t forget that AA itself isn’t some luxurious airline in the first place. Also remember that they can prove to DOT that their decision is right.


I’m not sure how luxury factors in regarding AA. The point being made with QF and JQ is that QF (the full service legacy) can’t make HNL work from MEL, nor SYD daily. They need lower cost JQ to operate despite having PoS Australia advantage. If QF can’t do it why do we believe AA can? AA is premium heavy on most of their WBs and has as high of, or higher cost structure as QF.

UA has a JV with NZ and yet we don’t see them offering HNL-AKL? It doesn’t serve a purpose in either carriers network. Besides, AA doesn’t serve any propriety market from HNL that can’t be reached nonstop or one stop on AA/QF today.
 
B1168
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Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:45 am

77H wrote:
B1168 wrote:
77H wrote:

What does AA gain by adding HNL-Oz service? AA has a JV with JL yet is 1 airline on a very short list of airlines that doesn’t serve TYO-HNL which is a far larger market. I don’t see it happening. As it is QF isn’t even daily to HNL from SYD and don’t serve MEL at all. They switch off with low cost, no frills JQ several times a week on SYD and JQ is the only airline from MEL.

77H


Yes, indeed. But well, don’t forget that AA itself isn’t some luxurious airline in the first place. Also remember that they can prove to DOT that their decision is right.


I’m not sure how luxury factors in regarding AA. The point being made with QF and JQ is that QF (the full service legacy) can’t make HNL work from MEL, nor SYD daily. They need lower cost JQ to operate despite having PoS Australia advantage. If QF can’t do it why do we believe AA can? AA is premium heavy on most of their WBs and has as high of, or higher cost structure as QF.

UA has a JV with NZ and yet we don’t see them offering HNL-AKL? It doesn’t serve a purpose in either carriers network. Besides, AA doesn’t serve any propriety market from HNL that can’t be reached nonstop or one stop on AA/QF today.


I can agree on every part of that other than “AA is premium heavy...”. I do not really care about how premium heavy their 777/330 is; the route should ideally only need 1 787-8 with 2nd batch delivery starting 2020 configured with as few as 20 J class seats. While may not be as LCC as JQ, probably less than QF at least by their 788.
 
TWA1985
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:24 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:51 am

Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.
Be Young. Be Wild. Be Free.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3107
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am

drerx7 wrote:
No...DFW-hnl-mel is way out the way.


258nm added milage+stop is not way out the way if they can haul greater cargo. Cargo can add up quickly and could make a the measly increase irrelevant. If the cargo loads are there.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:03 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.



I don't remember them using a 747, but I flew them HNL-ORD on a 707-351 in 1970. Me and six other passengers. it didn't last long.
 
AMollenhauer9
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:07 am

Tikchik wrote:

AA has a double daily ORD-HNL. 788



AA flies ORD-HNL for a couple of weeks once a day.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:41 am

superjeff wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.



I don't remember them using a 747, but I flew them HNL-ORD on a 707-351 in 1970. Me and six other passengers. it didn't last long.


Didn’t NW also fly ORD-ITO at one point. WA briefly tried MSP-HNL back in the 70s also.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:13 am

TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.

I’m pretty sure that Continental did ORD-HNL as well in 1970 or around there with either 707 or 747 or both.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:15 am

AMollenhauer9 wrote:
Tikchik wrote:

AA has a double daily ORD-HNL. 788



AA flies ORD-HNL for a couple of weeks once a day.

They’ve increased the flying now. I don’t know the specifics but it’s more than just Christmas time.
I think they fly in summer, spring and the Holidays now.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:18 am

Planeboy17 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.

I’m pretty sure that Continental did ORD-HNL as well in 1970 or around there with either 707 or 747 or both.


You’re right. I think it was CO that did ORD-ITO, not NW as I said.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:49 am

Ishrion wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
7 777s daily from DFW? There’s 3x HNL: 2x on 772 and 1x on a 788 if I’m not mistaken, where are the other frequencies going to? 2x OGG/KOA?


3x HNL
3x OGG
1x KOA

That is a lot of capacity. They are charging $1300+ fares in economy. The likely are pulling down Transatlantic and transpacific flying that season.


Wow, what’re the aircraft used on 3x OGG? All 772?


Correct. The three DFW-OGG outbound flights on 20 Dec. are all 772 (AA7, AA119, AA585) as is the 1x DFW-KOA on the same date (AA229). As for DFW-HNL, it's 2x 772 (AA5 and AA123) and 1x 788 (AA115). (Source: aa.com schedule search)
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
superjeff
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:40 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
superjeff wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.



I don't remember them using a 747, but I flew them HNL-ORD on a 707-351 in 1970. Me and six other passengers. it didn't last long.


Didn’t NW also fly ORD-ITO at one point. WA briefly tried MSP-HNL back in the 70s also.


I don't think NW did ORD-ITO. if they did, it sure wasn't for long.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1230
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Planeboy17 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.

I’m pretty sure that Continental did ORD-HNL as well in 1970 or around there with either 707 or 747 or both.



Not nonstop, they routed the flight ORD-LAX-HNL-LAX-ORD, and it was a 707-324. I don' t think (but could be wrong) they ran the 747 on that route.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:19 pm

superjeff wrote:
Planeboy17 wrote:
TWA1985 wrote:
Apparently Northwest Orient served HNL non-stop from ORD back in the 70’s using a 747.

I’m pretty sure that Continental did ORD-HNL as well in 1970 or around there with either 707 or 747 or both.



Not nonstop, they routed the flight ORD-LAX-HNL-LAX-ORD, and it was a 707-324. I don' t think (but could be wrong) they ran the 747 on that route.

I’ll have to do some more research but I know I’ve seen pics of a CO 747 at ORD in the old pre meatball Golden Jet colors and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen timetables on departed flights website that shows CO serving ORD-HNL nonstop but they may have only been awarded the service but did not actually serve it nonstop.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5225
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:34 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

3x HNL
3x OGG
1x KOA

That is a lot of capacity. They are charging $1300+ fares in economy. The likely are pulling down Transatlantic and transpacific flying that season.


Wow, what’re the aircraft used on 3x OGG? All 772?


Correct. The three DFW-OGG outbound flights on 20 Dec. are all 772 (AA7, AA119, AA585) as is the 1x DFW-KOA on the same date (AA229). As for DFW-HNL, it's 2x 772 (AA5 and AA123) and 1x 788 (AA115). (Source: aa.com schedule search)


Come on, don't present holiday capacity as the norm. The week of Nov. 11 AA has 1x non-stop DFW-OGG. The week of Jan. 12 it's 2x.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6257
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:36 pm

superjeff wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
superjeff wrote:


I don't remember them using a 747, but I flew them HNL-ORD on a 707-351 in 1970. Me and six other passengers. it didn't last long.


Didn’t NW also fly ORD-ITO at one point. WA briefly tried MSP-HNL back in the 70s also.


I don't think NW did ORD-ITO. if they did, it sure wasn't for long.


Right. A few posts later I corrected that. I believe it was CO.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 839
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:24 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Wow, what’re the aircraft used on 3x OGG? All 772?


Correct. The three DFW-OGG outbound flights on 20 Dec. are all 772 (AA7, AA119, AA585) as is the 1x DFW-KOA on the same date (AA229). As for DFW-HNL, it's 2x 772 (AA5 and AA123) and 1x 788 (AA115). (Source: aa.com schedule search)


Come on, don't present holiday capacity as the norm. The week of Nov. 11 AA has 1x non-stop DFW-OGG. The week of Jan. 12 it's 2x.


It sounds like he was referring to the timeframe in which AA was running 7x/daily between DFW-Hawaii, which is what I was responding to. That said, 772s pretty much hold down all flying between DFW and Hawaii year-round from what I've personally seen (the flight path between Hawaii and DFW is over my house; between that and FlightAware tracking via the app, I know that those Hawaii flights are 772s).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
Ishrion
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: DFW/ATL/IAH & Hawaiian Cities Nonstop

Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:32 pm

ctrabs0114 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

Correct. The three DFW-OGG outbound flights on 20 Dec. are all 772 (AA7, AA119, AA585) as is the 1x DFW-KOA on the same date (AA229). As for DFW-HNL, it's 2x 772 (AA5 and AA123) and 1x 788 (AA115). (Source: aa.com schedule search)


Come on, don't present holiday capacity as the norm. The week of Nov. 11 AA has 1x non-stop DFW-OGG. The week of Jan. 12 it's 2x.


It sounds like he was referring to the timeframe in which AA was running 7x/daily between DFW-Hawaii, which is what I was responding to. That said, 772s pretty much hold down all flying between DFW and Hawaii year-round from what I've personally seen (the flight path between Hawaii and DFW is over my house; between that and FlightAware tracking via the app, I know that those Hawaii flights are 772s).


That's what I was wondering. The OP stated it was Christmas season only anyways.

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