wexfordflyer
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:36 pm

I am really shocked and disappointed by this thread here. Reading this thread I had to ask what year is it: 2019 or 1949? There's a lot of people showing some very disrespectful, judgmental, misogynistic and frankly disgraceful viewpoints. Who are you to judge what others do? So long as they are not negatively impacting you or others, people should be relatively free. Just because you don't like tattoos does not mean others can't.

I'm actually appalled at some of the opinions here. Some people are incredibly closed minded and need to go back to the 1950s. The amount of energy spent judging others is shocking. If you are so interested in a person's appearance it says an awful lot about you as a person, and not in a good way. People are much more than what they look like.

I'm not the biggest fan of tattoos, but I applaud what Air NZ is doing. Society is becoming much more diverse and allowing their staff to be more themselves is a positive thing. Aer Lingus have recently removed their requirement for female FAs to wear make up. This allows them to express themselves in whatever way they want, and not have to conform to a stereotype to please ignorant people, as some on here have shown themselves to be. Is the world not littered with examples of the negative impacts of people having to conform to what society expects of them?

We could all do well by learning from the stoic philosophical teachings around perception, actions and will:

"Control your perceptions
Direct your actions properly
Willingly accept what's outside your control"
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
wexfordflyer
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:37 pm

Alphazone wrote:
Back to the topic, I think it's a terrible idea, my opinion of tattoos is that they are repulsive and form of self-harm.


If you always judge others by your own taste, you will never get very far. I suggest you try to broaden your mind a little bit.
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2583
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Aesma wrote:
They might have wanted to avoid tattoos as long as possible to not displease Japanese customers, maybe ?


Bingo we have a winner!
The Japanese are high spending and they're easily scared off.
The Chinese aren't too far behind these days.

Now remember the logic behind this. It's only going to be where it's visible.
So.... that means face for everyone hands, neck and legs for the ladies.

Like it or not, when you're in the international business of travel, you do have to cater to other cultural
expectations. You can have a tramp stamp and nobody is ever going to know... hell even a sleeve tattoo
and as long as it doesn't go too close to your hands for the guys they'll never see it with a long sleeve shirt
on.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:28 pm

tonystan wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
For me: visible tattoos on people that are supposed to be 'professionals' is a no-go. Sorry. It just reflects bad judgement.
A tattoo isn't something anyone in society has ever said 'Look how professional, safe and tidy'. Tattoos are counter-culture things that people get to show their individuality (and yes, the irony that it's so popular/common to have a tattoo to express individuality is amusing).

--
For the social justice keyboard warriors on this thread arguing about wage gaps, womens' makeup, misogyny or whatever terms you all use.
This is an aviation board....
Why not leave that stuff to the article comments on your local news website?


For what it's worth, it undermines the causes you claim to believe in when you demand everyone else takes your viewpoint.
'If you're not with us, you're against us' used to be a phrase you guys all ridiculed.... now it appears it's your dogma.


Tell me this and tell me no more...how does someone’s tattoo prevent them from being friendly and suitable to a job such as flight or cabin crew? And try not to use hackneyed stereotypes or prejudices!


Tattoos don't prevent (or indicate positively either), a good attitude or friendly nature.
But they clearly *don't* give off a professional vibe. That's just reality.
Server at a restaurant, bartender... sure, that clientele doesn't care anyway so tattoos fit right in.

A few of my staff have tattoos, and they are mostly the warehouse workers. The people in the office generally don't, and if they do, they aren't visible.
The reality is that - NO one has ever said 'Look at that guy with the burning skull tattoos on his neck - I bet he's really professional!'

This isn't skin color, or race, or sexuality that you are born with. You chose to put tattoos on your body, and anyone who sees them is free to judge them.
That's how life works.
That's not a sterotype or a prejudice, that's called being a human.


My second point was - the social justice warriors that cry foul when people don't agree with their assertions, are actually hurting their cause rather than furthering it.
This thread, and most of the replies, I think shows that clearly.


My final point was, this is an aviation board.
No one really cares what anyone here thinks about tattoos, so, the vitriol and keyboard evangelism is amusing for sure, but tiresome at best.


I hire, fire and have run a multimillion dollar business that I built from the ground up over the last 14 years.
Unless you are in the warehouse, visible tattoos don't help your cause when you're interviewing to work with us.
It just shows a lack of judgement on something that *could* impact your career. And a lack of judgement is much more of a problem than the actual tattoo.
 
tonystan
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:34 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
tonystan wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
For me: visible tattoos on people that are supposed to be 'professionals' is a no-go. Sorry. It just reflects bad judgement.
A tattoo isn't something anyone in society has ever said 'Look how professional, safe and tidy'. Tattoos are counter-culture things that people get to show their individuality (and yes, the irony that it's so popular/common to have a tattoo to express individuality is amusing).

--
For the social justice keyboard warriors on this thread arguing about wage gaps, womens' makeup, misogyny or whatever terms you all use.
This is an aviation board....
Why not leave that stuff to the article comments on your local news website?


For what it's worth, it undermines the causes you claim to believe in when you demand everyone else takes your viewpoint.
'If you're not with us, you're against us' used to be a phrase you guys all ridiculed.... now it appears it's your dogma.


Tell me this and tell me no more...how does someone’s tattoo prevent them from being friendly and suitable to a job such as flight or cabin crew? And try not to use hackneyed stereotypes or prejudices!


Tattoos don't prevent (or indicate positively either), a good attitude or friendly nature.
But they clearly *don't* give off a professional vibe. That's just reality.
Server at a restaurant, bartender... sure, that clientele doesn't care anyway so tattoos fit right in.

A few of my staff have tattoos, and they are mostly the warehouse workers. The people in the office generally don't, and if they do, they aren't visible.
The reality is that - NO one has ever said 'Look at that guy with the burning skull tattoos on his neck - I bet he's really professional!'

This isn't skin color, or race, or sexuality that you are born with. You chose to put tattoos on your body, and anyone who sees them is free to judge them.
That's how life works.
That's not a sterotype or a prejudice, that's called being a human.


My second point was - the social justice warriors that cry foul when people don't agree with their assertions, are actually hurting their cause rather than furthering it.
This thread, and most of the replies, I think shows that clearly.


My final point was, this is an aviation board.
No one really cares what anyone here thinks about tattoos, so, the vitriol and keyboard evangelism is amusing for sure, but tiresome at best.


I hire, fire and have run a multimillion dollar business that I built from the ground up over the last 14 years.
Unless you are in the warehouse, visible tattoos don't help your cause when you're interviewing to work with us.
It just shows a lack of judgement on something that *could* impact your career. And a lack of judgement is much more of a problem than the actual tattoo.


This WHOLE thread is about tatoos in aviation! So yes, it belongs here and you hav chosen to contribute to it.

Also your opinions are merely that...opinions! Nothing you state is fact just poorly understood opinion.

Fact of the matter is tatoos do not impact on ones ability to do the job any more than a woman wearing lipstick! A tattoo does not define a persons personality, a tattoo does not even define ones place in society! And the only reason most of your office staff don’t have tattoos is bcuas you either don’t realise they do or you have made a judgement not to hire them! Nasty! You say a tattoo displays poor judgement but have you get asked tattoo wearers if they have regretted it? And an aside, what is a multi million pound captain if industry doing wasting his/her time on an amateur aviation geek website?

Your opinions are stuck in a very old dark era and the sooner you realise this the better. Most industries are waking up to a more modern way of doing business. Best you don’t get left behind.

What you are is prejudiced! Plain and simple.
Last edited by tonystan on Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
wexfordflyer
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:38 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
tonystan wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
For me: visible tattoos on people that are supposed to be 'professionals' is a no-go. Sorry. It just reflects bad judgement.
A tattoo isn't something anyone in society has ever said 'Look how professional, safe and tidy'. Tattoos are counter-culture things that people get to show their individuality (and yes, the irony that it's so popular/common to have a tattoo to express individuality is amusing).

--
For the social justice keyboard warriors on this thread arguing about wage gaps, womens' makeup, misogyny or whatever terms you all use.
This is an aviation board....
Why not leave that stuff to the article comments on your local news website?


For what it's worth, it undermines the causes you claim to believe in when you demand everyone else takes your viewpoint.
'If you're not with us, you're against us' used to be a phrase you guys all ridiculed.... now it appears it's your dogma.


Tell me this and tell me no more...how does someone’s tattoo prevent them from being friendly and suitable to a job such as flight or cabin crew? And try not to use hackneyed stereotypes or prejudices!


Tattoos don't prevent (or indicate positively either), a good attitude or friendly nature.
But they clearly *don't* give off a professional vibe. That's just reality.
Server at a restaurant, bartender... sure, that clientele doesn't care anyway so tattoos fit right in.

A few of my staff have tattoos, and they are mostly the warehouse workers. The people in the office generally don't, and if they do, they aren't visible.
The reality is that - NO one has ever said 'Look at that guy with the burning skull tattoos on his neck - I bet he's really professional!'

This isn't skin color, or race, or sexuality that you are born with. You chose to put tattoos on your body, and anyone who sees them is free to judge them.
That's how life works.
That's not a sterotype or a prejudice, that's called being a human.


My second point was - the social justice warriors that cry foul when people don't agree with their assertions, are actually hurting their cause rather than furthering it.
This thread, and most of the replies, I think shows that clearly.


My final point was, this is an aviation board.
No one really cares what anyone here thinks about tattoos, so, the vitriol and keyboard evangelism is amusing for sure, but tiresome at best.


I hire, fire and have run a multimillion dollar business that I built from the ground up over the last 14 years.
Unless you are in the warehouse, visible tattoos don't help your cause when you're interviewing to work with us.
It just shows a lack of judgement on something that *could* impact your career. And a lack of judgement is much more of a problem than the actual tattoo.


Not all tattoos are of burning skulls, there you go again tarring everyone with the same brush. Plenty are subtle and tasteful, yet still visible.

You may well have run a multimillion dollar business. The fact that you need to boast about it is embarrassing. It also doesn't change the fact that you come across as an obnoxious person.

You may have material wealth, but it appears you don't have moral wealth.
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1755
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:00 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
1) first of all tattoos in aviation ... gross
2) tattoos show poor decision making skills
3) way for airlines to make employees unprofessional in appearance so they can pay work groups less


Tattoos are just gross. Can't fathom why someone deface their bodies like that. Ugh. I certainly don't want anyone with tattoos serving me.
 
User avatar
DexSwart
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:03 pm

AEROFAN wrote:

Tattoos are just gross. Can't fathom why someone deface their bodies like that. Ugh. I certainly don't want anyone with tattoos serving me.


Honestly the grossest thing here is the responses on this thread.

Hopefully you never go out to a bar, restaurant, gym, hospital, airport... actually, just stay home.

Will be interesting to see how the mods deal with it since a bunch of adults can’t even keep their opinions to themselves.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 2113
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:05 pm

wexfordflyer wrote:

Not all tattoos are of burning skulls, there you go again tarring everyone with the same brush. Plenty are subtle and tasteful, yet still visible.

You may well have run a multimillion dollar business. The fact that you need to boast about it is embarrassing. It also doesn't change the fact that you come across as an obnoxious person.

You may have material wealth, but it appears you don't have moral wealth.



Two more notes:
1) I like how immediately the defensiveness of 'ok ok, burning skulls are clearly dumb... but not everyone has burning skulls!!!!!'
It's always relative isn't it?
You can take your moral high ground for tattoos, up until a dude has a swastika on his forehead, or tear by his eye... then you back down..
'well, I didn't mean *that* type of tattoo'

Who judges what is tasteful by the way, just you? Or is it legal matter? Or what about minorities, or Native Americans (maybe there should there be a committee and everyone submits a tattoo to decide if you think it's tasteful or not?

It's just bemusing to most adults to see such wiggling.
People get tattoos, other people judge their tattoos. That's kind of how life works.
If you're overweight, same thing, you get judged, rightly or wrongly. That's how people are.

Why is this so hard to figure out?


2) I wasn't boasting about being some fancy business dude, it's just another fact I added to the thread.
I hire and fire people while running a corporation (which is, I believe what this entire thread is about).
I really don't care what YOU think of it, it's just a fact that adds context to my opinions.

For what it's worth, I'm not that wealthy :)
I share most of our profits with our staff, so, I'm actually very middle class (look, I won some moral high ground points with the social justice warriors, yeah!)
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:07 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
1) first of all tattoos in aviation ... gross
2) tattoos show poor decision making skills
3) way for airlines to make employees unprofessional in appearance so they can pay work groups less



Unfortunately everyone of these points is the 100 percent truth. I still can't wrap my head around the amount of visible neck tattoos I'm seeing these days. Do they realize how ridiculous they will look once they hit their mid 30s?

FAs use to get paid more (relative to inflation) 30 years ago than they do now. It also use to be a much more exclusive career. If you think the lowering of standards and the lowering of pay over the last 30 years are not related, you are living in fantasy land.

Lastly, what is air NZ trying to portray? Maori NZ was a land of cannibalism, slavery, and wholesale genocide of tribe vs tribe (and the extermination of most of the large animals too for that matter). Why would the national carrier of NZ want to advertise that culture?
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:08 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
1) first of all tattoos in aviation ... gross
2) tattoos show poor decision making skills
3) way for airlines to make employees unprofessional in appearance so they can pay work groups less


Tattoos are just gross. Can't fathom why someone deface their bodies like that. Ugh. I certainly don't want anyone with tattoos serving me.


Hate to break it to you, but you've been served, heard, seen, educated and even obeyed someone with tattoos, even if you couldn't see it.

The classism and ignorance in this thread astound me. Truly hope it's just a generational thing that will eventually die down.
Last edited by gatibosgru on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
@DadCelo
 
Canuck600
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:15 pm

aviationaware wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Now hopefully one day we’ll see them end the absurd need for female staff to wear make up and high heals!


Most women enjoy wearing make-up. I'd wager to say the type that wants to become a flight attendant most certainly do.


What "type" of woman is that?
 
wexfordflyer
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:48 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:16 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
wexfordflyer wrote:

Not all tattoos are of burning skulls, there you go again tarring everyone with the same brush. Plenty are subtle and tasteful, yet still visible.

You may well have run a multimillion dollar business. The fact that you need to boast about it is embarrassing. It also doesn't change the fact that you come across as an obnoxious person.

You may have material wealth, but it appears you don't have moral wealth.



Two more notes:
1) I like how immediately the defensiveness of 'ok ok, burning skulls are clearly dumb... but not everyone has burning skulls!!!!!'
It's always relative isn't it?
You can take your moral high ground for tattoos, up until a dude has a swastika on his forehead, or tear by his eye... then you back down..
'well, I didn't mean *that* type of tattoo'

Who judges what is tasteful by the way, just you? Or is it legal matter? Or what about minorities, or Native Americans (maybe there should there be a committee and everyone submits a tattoo to decide if you think it's tasteful or not?

It's just bemusing to most adults to see such wiggling.
People get tattoos, other people judge their tattoos. That's kind of how life works.
If you're overweight, same thing, you get judged, rightly or wrongly. That's how people are.

Why is this so hard to figure out?


2) I wasn't boasting about being some fancy business dude, it's just another fact I added to the thread.
I hire and fire people while running a corporation (which is, I believe what this entire thread is about).
I really don't care what YOU think of it, it's just a fact that adds context to my opinions.

For what it's worth, I'm not that wealthy :)
I share most of our profits with our staff, so, I'm actually very middle class (look, I won some moral high ground points with the social justice warriors, yeah!)


I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I never said burning skulls are dumb, I don't know where you got that from.

You're also suggesting that it's ok for people to be judgemental of others becayse "That's how people are" I fundamentally disagree with you on that and think that sort of attitude is dangerous.

In any case, I applaud the step of AIr NZ, and sincerely hope other carriers follow suit. You don't.
Come with me, there's a place I want you to see, where the leaves are dark, I've got a hiding place in central park.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:18 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
1) first of all tattoos in aviation ... gross
2) tattoos show poor decision making skills
3) way for airlines to make employees unprofessional in appearance so they can pay work groups less[/quote

FAs use to get paid more (relative to inflation) 30 years ago than they do now. It also use to be a much more exclusive career. If you think the lowering of standards and the lowering of pay over the last 30 years are not related, you are living in fantasy land.


Top pay is the total goal. How to achieve that is by attracting the clientele to grant you the top pay for your airline. I guess some airlines are gambling by allowing visible tattoos they will attract higher spenders.

Tattoos just drive me, this spender away.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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qf789
Moderator
Posts: 8779
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Air New Zealand drops tattoo ban.

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:20 pm

Due to the number of off topic and personal comments towards one another the thread is now locked
Forum Moderator

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