levg79
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Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:59 pm

Just got an alert that an airplane hit a building in midtown Manhattan. Nothing on the news. Anyone has any access to info?
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jetwet1
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Nothing on any news outlets, hope it's a false alarm
 
PanAm788
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:05 pm

I'm in midtown Manhattan now. Lots of police activity so something definitely happened. Latest I heard was a helicopter crash landed on a roof. Hopefully everyone is ok and it's nothing more serious.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Apparently it is a helicopter.
 
max999
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:07 pm

https://twitter.com/FDNYAlerts/status/1 ... 3967917056

FDNY confirms it's a helicopter crash at 787 7th Avenue in Midtown Manhattan.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:09 pm

CNN reporting right now

FOX is as well
Last edited by crjflyboy on Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:12 pm

600' ceilings at the west side heliport...not much better here in midtown. There have been low ceilings and a driving rain all day.
 
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T18
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Re: Plane crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:20 pm

catiii wrote:
600' ceilings at the west side heliport...not much better here in midtown. There have been low ceilings and a driving rain all day.

500 at LGA right now and Number 787 7th Ave is according to google 752 ft tall.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:35 pm

Some parts might also have landed at 1251 6th. Could this be a CFIT, unintentionally crashing into the building?
 
tootallsd
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:36 pm

What does CFIT mean?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:38 pm

Controlled Flight Into Terrain

aka pilot error
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Starfuryt
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:39 pm

Can the thread please be renamed now that there is a bit more information.
 
musman9853
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:44 pm

1 death reported so far, unclear how many were on board
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CLJFlyer
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:45 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
Can the thread please be renamed now that there is a bit more information.


Ditto. The title makes it seem like 9/11 all over again.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:00 pm

Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
CLJFlyer
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.


Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.
 
WN732
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:08 pm

CLJFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.


Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.


Google is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash
 
Victr
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:10 pm

CLJFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.


Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.



In 2006, there was a Cirrus SR20 with a Yankees player Cory Lidle who ran out of fuel and crashed into a building near the East River.

Here is the Wikipedia page link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash
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CLJFlyer
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:12 pm

WN732 wrote:
CLJFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.


Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.


Google is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash


I googled before I posted the message and all I could find was the AA flight to Santo Domingo that crashed in Queens. But thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the Manhattan incident.
 
WN732
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:18 pm

CLJFlyer wrote:
WN732 wrote:
CLJFlyer wrote:

Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.


Google is your friend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash


I googled before I posted the message and all I could find was the AA flight to Santo Domingo that crashed in Queens. But thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the Manhattan incident.


The only reason I even remembered was that I recalled it being a Yankee player. Otherwise I probably would've forgotten.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:19 pm

Victr wrote:
CLJFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Airplanes have crashed into Manhattan buildings before and since 9/11.


Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.



In 2006, there was a Cirrus SR20 with a Yankees player Cory Lidle who ran out of fuel and crashed into a building near the East River.

Here is the Wikipedia page link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash


He didn't run out of fuel he was inexperienced pilot in a plane too high performance for him and turned into a wind he couldn't recover from.

As for today CNN is trying a little to hard to relive 9/11. It's sad.
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Victr
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:35 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Victr wrote:
CLJFlyer wrote:

Source? I can't seem to recall the last time a plane crashed into a Manhattan building since 9/11.



In 2006, there was a Cirrus SR20 with a Yankees player Cory Lidle who ran out of fuel and crashed into a building near the East River.

Here is the Wikipedia page link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_ ... lane_crash


He didn't run out of fuel he was inexperienced pilot in a plane too high performance for him and turned into a wind he couldn't recover from.

As for today CNN is trying a little to hard to relive 9/11. It's sad.


Thanks for the clarification and yes it is sad that they are using 9/11 in this example
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Victr
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:46 pm

Right on, and don't get me started with some of these "aviation experts" that they feature.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.- Leonardo da Vinci
 
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Stitch
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:02 pm

There was also the B-25 Mitchell bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945.
 
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United787
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:09 pm

Image

There isn't much left of the helicopter. The fire must have been significant.
 
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United787
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:10 pm

Image
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:20 pm

How long before the NTSB Go Team arrives on site?

RIP to the pilot. Godspeed to the pilot's family, friends & loved ones.
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wjcandee
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:24 pm

Media are reporting N200BK, based in Linden, NJ, which is also where a lot of news choppers are based. Executive transport operation. Apparently dropped off a passenger at 34th Street and was planning to return by going North up the East River, West across Manhattan, and South down the Hudson, past the Statue of Liberty, to Linden. That's the best summary I have heard so far, and explains the nonsensical, "It was going to the Statue of Liberty from 34th St" initial reports. Made no sense because S of L is South of 34th St, and the accident site was North of 34th St. in the middle of Manhattan.

A twin-engine Agusta has full instrumentation. While I suppose it's possible that some half-assed operator could employ a pilot without significant IFR experience (and an IFR rating), I think it is unlikely. Accordingly, I assume that he had some kind of mechanical issue and tried to put it down on the building.

There is a video floating around of a helicopter diving out of the clouds over the East River in an almost nose-down dive, then recovering and proceeding; I think it hasn't been verified and therefore isn't up on the TV. Hard to believe that one would go through that and then not go back to the nearest heliport to check the equipment.

That video which is floating around was taken from a spot significantly-South of Waterside Plaza (26th St) and North of the ConEd plant (14th Street), so probably like 19th Street or so As such, it doesn't make sense that that is this helicopter if it was taking off from 34th Street and proceeding North.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
deebee278
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:25 pm

Stitch wrote:
There was also the B-25 Mitchell bomber that crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945.


There was also a helicopter accident in 1977 on top of the (then) Pan Am building. I've given up on CNN. It takes a lot for them to get off of their main subject (you know who) for even a couple minutes.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:59 pm

All that's in the FDNY photo is the tail rotor hub, and pieces of tail rotor and a little piece of tail. They don't show the main fuselage. I'm guessing the photo is of the debris that landed on a building outcropping several floors below, as mentioned by the FDNY Commissioner in the press conference.
 
Etheereal
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:53 am

It looks foggy as hell .. i cant help but wonder how difficult visual conditions must have been..
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zeke
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:00 am

How cold was it at the time ?

The pilots name, aircraft type etc have been released in the press.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:48 pm

About 20C or greater, not an icing issue.
 
impilot
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:18 am

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/us/new-y ... index.html

CNN reports pilot didn’t have an instrument rating.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:14 am

The NY Times says he lifted off at 1:32PM. The most recent LGA METAR prior to that was this one at 1:15, and he'd probably have had this info when deciding whether to go:

SPECI KLGA 101715Z 04012KT 2SM R04/4000VP6000FT -RA BR SCT007 OVC010 17/16 A3005 RMK AO2 P0003 T01720156=

To decode that, winds were from 040 at 12 knots, visibility of 2 miles, rain, mist, scattered clouds at 700, overcast at 1000, temp of 17C/63F with a dewpoint of 16C/61F (hence the mist).

With a ceiling of 1,000, he might have thought he could make it, although I don't see how he could have done it legally without staying over water. Maybe he planned to do that and just got totally lost.

Here's KTEB's METAR from 12:51PM:

METAR KTEB 101651Z 06006KT 2SM -RA BR OVC007 18/16 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP176 P0005 T01830161=

That shows overcast of 700 ft, which should have been more worrying to him. There was a SPECI METAR from KTEB at 1:22 that was even worse, but it's possible he might not have gotten it before taking off:

SPECI KTEB 101722Z 08007KT 2SM -RA BR OVC003 18/17 A3004 RMK AO2 P0001 T01830167=

That shows 300 ft overcast.

Here's the LGA SPECI METAR from right around the time of the first 911 call:

SPECI KLGA 101741Z 04012KT 1 1/2SM R04/4500VP6000FT -RA BR OVC008 17/16 A3003 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 2 P0005 T01720156=

That shows an 800 ft ceiling whereas the previous LGA METAR showed 1000, so conditions clearly seemed to be getting worse on both sides of the Hudson.

It seems like we know he got stuck in IMC as a VFR-only pilot, and my educated guess is that he made the decision to take off when he thought conditions were just barely good enough for him to fly in, but they continued deteriorating as he began his takeoff prep and then throughout the flight.

There's also that video that's apparently of his flight floating around, though it's not clear to me what he's doing in it. It almost looks like he's probing for a way through the clouds, assuming it is a video of him.
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wjcandee
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:53 am

impilot wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/us/new-york-helicopter-crash-pilot/index.html

CNN reports pilot didn’t have an instrument rating.


I can't imagine hiring a guy to fly my Agusta who doesn't have an instrument rating, and I can't imagine my insurance company not being concerned about this.

Helicopters have had the ability to fly in IMC at least since the Vietnam war. In the mid-60s, there were a number of early Army pilots who hadn't received instrument training, but as the Airmobile concept was built up, everybody who went through flight school at Fort Rucker got instrument training. As late as the 1980s, many non-military-trained helicopter pilots didn't have instrument ratings, but at least since the 1990s any high-end corporate helicopter is going to have full instrumentation, including the Agusta in question. To hire a guy who doesn't have an instrument rating and/or not to require him to study and get it while for five years he's your primary daily pilot on your private chopper is just unthinkable. If you're gonna commute to NYC from NJ by helicopter, encountering low minima isn't going to be an extraordinary event.

That this poor guy wandered all over trying to stay out of weather, and called in that he didn't know where he was is just a sad, pathetic thing.

I would think after the Trump Organization helicopter accident on the Jersey Shore, where the pilots also encountered clouds while trying to follow the coastline, everyone doing executive transportation would insist on instrument ratings for their pilots. The absence of an instrument rating also affects the ability to operate fully at night, something I would think I would want my twin-engine Agusta to be able to do.

With this very-sad hull loss, I think aviation insurers should think about requiring an instrument rating for any commercial pilot hired to perform executive transportation in small or private turbine helicopter operations.
 
Boeingphan
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:30 pm

Not to mention that he'd need to be instrument rated for any flights after 4pm in the winter months. Seems off and odd for sure.
 
dragon6172
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:48 pm

spacecadet wrote:
The NY Times says he lifted off at 1:32PM. The most recent LGA METAR prior to that was this one at 1:15, and he'd probably have had this info when deciding whether to go:

SPECI KLGA 101715Z 04012KT 2SM R04/4000VP6000FT -RA BR SCT007 OVC010 17/16 A3005 RMK AO2 P0003 T01720156=

To decode that, winds were from 040 at 12 knots, visibility of 2 miles, rain, mist, scattered clouds at 700, overcast at 1000, temp of 17C/63F with a dewpoint of 16C/61F (hence the mist).

With a ceiling of 1,000, he might have thought he could make it, although I don't see how he could have done it legally without staying over water. Maybe he planned to do that and just got totally lost.

Here's KTEB's METAR from 12:51PM:

METAR KTEB 101651Z 06006KT 2SM -RA BR OVC007 18/16 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP176 P0005 T01830161=

That shows overcast of 700 ft, which should have been more worrying to him. There was a SPECI METAR from KTEB at 1:22 that was even worse, but it's possible he might not have gotten it before taking off:

SPECI KTEB 101722Z 08007KT 2SM -RA BR OVC003 18/17 A3004 RMK AO2 P0001 T01830167=

That shows 300 ft overcast.

Here's the LGA SPECI METAR from right around the time of the first 911 call:

SPECI KLGA 101741Z 04012KT 1 1/2SM R04/4500VP6000FT -RA BR OVC008 17/16 A3003 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 2 P0005 T01720156=

That shows an 800 ft ceiling whereas the previous LGA METAR showed 1000, so conditions clearly seemed to be getting worse on both sides of the Hudson.

It seems like we know he got stuck in IMC as a VFR-only pilot, and my educated guess is that he made the decision to take off when he thought conditions were just barely good enough for him to fly in, but they continued deteriorating as he began his takeoff prep and then throughout the flight.

There's also that video that's apparently of his flight floating around, though it's not clear to me what he's doing in it. It almost looks like he's probing for a way through the clouds, assuming it is a video of him.


Lets not forget the METAR for his supposed destination of Linden, NJ. For the two hours preceding his takeoff the reports varied 1.5-2.5 miles vis with rain or drizzle, winds calm, and an skies 600 overcast.

Also, there are 2 videos of him over the east river, both recorded from the same location. Unfortunately not time stamped.


https://www.instagram.com/p/ByiexheH4H3 ... _copy_link
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airportugal310
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Re: Updated: Helicopter crashed into building in Manhattan

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:21 pm

Boeingphan wrote:
Not to mention that he'd need to be instrument rated for any flights after 4pm in the winter months. Seems off and odd for sure.


Why? You dont need an instrument rating to fly in the dark assuming its VFR out...
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