RainerBoeing777
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Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:23 pm

After having eliminated NRT as Hub, I am surprised that the singapore route is still maintained, what are the load factors of the flight is still profitable? There are 14 daily flights between SIN- (NRT / HND), and the SIN-NRT sector there is too much competition with Japan Airlines, All Nippon Airways and Singapore Airlines its Boeing 787-8 / 9/10, Boeing 777-300ER and Airbus 380- 800 are too much competition and level for the Delta Boeing 767-300ER, besides that Singapore Airlines is going to start the route Singapore - Seattle, and Delta leave NRT by HND but moving the flight to the NGO / KIX-SEA I see it very rough too SQ is very competitive and already has the premium market and the LCC with its airline Scoot aside that the Boeing 787-10 of SQ are superior to the B767 of delta. When they move in definitively to HND they will eliminate SIN ??
Last edited by RainerBoeing777 on Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
CALMSP
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:26 pm

well, it gives SkyTEAM fliers an option at least to continue.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:43 pm

Give it a few months when the 2020 schedules are loaded with the new Haneda flights and you'll see flights dropped.
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Delta28L
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:56 pm

The flight will be dropped or moved over to ICN to codeshare with KE
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Give it a few months when the 2020 schedules are loaded with the new Haneda flights and you'll see flights dropped.


Was Delta awarded new HND routes? I was following that thread for a while but stopped. Which routes?
 
onwFan
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:04 pm

And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:08 pm

Ahh, found it buried in that thread...

AA: DFW (1x), LAX
DL: SEA, DTW, ATL, PDX, HNL (1x)
HA: HNL (1x)
UA: EWR, ORD, IAD, LAX
 
Fuling
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:09 pm

Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.
 
adtall
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:03 am

onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


That's like saying I'd be surprised if UA still flies IAD- and ORD-CDG in a few years, they replicate those flights at FRA. The analogy is imperfect, however TYO isn't a niche market, especially from the West Coast. DL has been flying these exact routes to NRT for several years so the routes are proven and are still going even as the hub has been almost gone for the last 2 years. I also think JL will have more important routes to use their assumed 6 slots on such as ORD, DFW #2, BOS, SEA, HNL and/or KOA for their JV with HA, plus SAN potentially and that's off the top of my head. I think HND and ICN will coexist just fine for DL, one O/D and one hub.
 
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:11 am

onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.
 
Fargo
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.


Is JL or NH even looking to start PDX-HND? Just curious
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:25 am

I would not be surprised if DL dropped SIN in the near future and let KE take over the route from ICN. DL's primary goal is to accommodate passengers from the US, not Japan, so it only matters that they have some way of getting them there. That said, SIN has always been an important part of DL's Asia network and the company has significant offices there, so it's not clear whether dropping the city is even on their radar.
 
kachun
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:31 am

I flew MSP-HND several times before and it's always been full or nearly full.
 
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janders
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:33 am

Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


Delta runs a regional call center in Singapore and that can continue regardless of a flight or not.
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N174UA
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:36 am

Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


What type of staff? Is it for the positions that handle flight operations? Or are they office-based customer service positions?

If it's the first, then yes...SIN will still be flown to on DL metal from NRT, and eventually somewhere else.

If it's the second, then DL could stop service tomorrow and still have customer support positions there.
 
N174UA
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:43 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.


Why would ANA want to start the route? Very little feed on UA beyond PDX these days. Their aircraft can be used on more profitable and strategic routes.

JL is the smaller of the two Japanese airlines, and as another poster indicated, they too would follow the same strategy.

If the PDX-TYO market were to somehow double in size, then yes...PDX might be on their radar. But no one realistically expects that to happen anytime soon.
 
ytib
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:49 am

N174UA wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


What type of staff? Is it for the positions that handle flight operations? Or are they office-based customer service positions?

If it's the first, then yes...SIN will still be flown to on DL metal from NRT, and eventually somewhere else.

If it's the second, then DL could stop service tomorrow and still have customer support positions there.


Call center positions
https://delta.dejobs.org/customer-exper ... t/jobs-in/
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SierraPacific
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:54 am

Is this the last of the Delta 5th freedom routes?

Sad to see the international network of Delta shrink from the glory days
 
downdata
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:55 am

This is the first time i’ve seen someone start a question with “because”
 
klakzky123
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:00 am

SierraPacific wrote:
Is this the last of the Delta 5th freedom routes?

Sad to see the international network of Delta shrink from the glory days


I think they still operate NRT-MNL but yes there isn't much left anymore. And both of those are probably gone in 2020 once DL shifts to HND.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:07 am

downdata wrote:
This is the first time i’ve seen someone start a question with “because”

His/her native tongue is obviously Spanish or Portuguese where "porque" means both "why" (in a question) and "because" in a reply to a question. The OP clearly doesn't have the command of English to distinguish that clearly, so he/she got it wrong. Not everybody's native tongue on here is English.

But maybe mods can help him/her out by correcting at least the title so it makes sense?
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:26 am

klakzky123 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Is this the last of the Delta 5th freedom routes?

Sad to see the international network of Delta shrink from the glory days


I think they still operate NRT-MNL but yes there isn't much left anymore. And both of those are probably gone in 2020 once DL shifts to HND.


Is NRT-MNL mostly low-yielding, Japan-originating, vacationing passengers?

What does DL have over other carriers flying Tokyo-MNL?
 
alfa164
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:28 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
downdata wrote:
This is the first time i’ve seen someone start a question with “because”

His/her native tongue is obviously Spanish or Portuguese where "porque" means both "why" (in a question) and "because" in a reply to a question. The OP clearly doesn't have the command of English to distinguish that clearly, so he/she got it wrong. Not everybody's native tongue on here is English.
But maybe mods can help him/her out by correcting at least the title so it makes sense?


Just a slight correction:

"Why" is "por que";

"Because" is "porque".
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filipinoavgeek
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:29 am

questions wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Is this the last of the Delta 5th freedom routes?

Sad to see the international network of Delta shrink from the glory days


I think they still operate NRT-MNL but yes there isn't much left anymore. And both of those are probably gone in 2020 once DL shifts to HND.


Is NRT-MNL mostly low-yielding, Japan-originating, vacationing passengers?

What does DL have over other carriers flying Tokyo-MNL?


From experience and what I've heard, MNL-NRT is mostly Filipinos connecting to flights in America. The latter part is probably important.
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:37 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
questions wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:

I think they still operate NRT-MNL but yes there isn't much left anymore. And both of those are probably gone in 2020 once DL shifts to HND.


Is NRT-MNL mostly low-yielding, Japan-originating, vacationing passengers?

What does DL have over other carriers flying Tokyo-MNL?


From experience and what I've heard, MNL-NRT is mostly Filipinos connecting to flights in America. The latter part is probably important.


So what are they going to connect to when flights move to HND?

If this is the case then they will have to go thru ICN on KE or on another airline. Is PR the only airline that flies US-MNL nonstop?
 
Fuling
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:39 am

ytib wrote:
N174UA wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


What type of staff? Is it for the positions that handle flight operations? Or are they office-based customer service positions?

If it's the first, then yes...SIN will still be flown to on DL metal from NRT, and eventually somewhere else.

If it's the second, then DL could stop service tomorrow and still have customer support positions there.


Call center positions
https://delta.dejobs.org/customer-exper ... t/jobs-in/


Yes you guys are right. Last week I saw a job posting for Cabin Crew based in Singapore, so I see now that isn't the case.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:20 am

Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


Off topic, and not to hijack the thread, however, I find it interesting that people have a problem with airlines like Norwegian and others hiring foreign-based crew at local wages, but when Delta, United hire Asian based crew - or in the case of AA hiring from South America, it's of no interest. Just an interesting note.
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United1
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:00 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


Off topic, and not to hijack the thread, however, I find it interesting that people have a problem with airlines like Norwegian and others hiring foreign-based crew at local wages, but when Delta, United hire Asian based crew - or in the case of AA hiring from South America, it's of no interest. Just an interesting note.


UAs NRT, HKG, FRA and LHR F/A bases are all represented by AFA and are covered by the same contract as their US based counterparts. Which is why no one makes a stink over UAs foreign domiciles...:)
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strfyr51
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:24 am

strfyr51 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.


Well right now Delta offer no connections on either end. JAL and ANA would at least provide connections on to the Tokyo end.

There's a reason the nonrevs head to PDX when they want to go to Tokyo.
 
onwFan
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:33 am

strfyr51 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.


I was suggesting that JL can offer way more destinations with AS than what DL does right now.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:46 am

strfyr51 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...


Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.

Let SEA, LAX, SFO, MSP, ORD, DTW, JFK, EWR, IAH, DEN and IAD do this job for PDX. It's not like you can only connect in PDX.

Michael
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:30 am

eamondzhang wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.

Let SEA, LAX, SFO, MSP, ORD, DTW, JFK, EWR, IAH, DEN and IAD do this job for PDX. It's not like you can only connect in PDX.

Michael


Who/what’s driving the demand PDX-HND and HND-PDX. Or is it a sub sized flight?
 
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Polot
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:56 am

questions wrote:
filipinoavgeek wrote:
questions wrote:

Is NRT-MNL mostly low-yielding, Japan-originating, vacationing passengers?

What does DL have over other carriers flying Tokyo-MNL?


From experience and what I've heard, MNL-NRT is mostly Filipinos connecting to flights in America. The latter part is probably important.


So what are they going to connect to when flights move to HND?

If this is the case then they will have to go thru ICN on KE or on another airline. Is PR the only airline that flies US-MNL nonstop?

It’s not just the lack of connections that will doom the NRT-SIN/MNL flights, it will also be the lack of aircraft available as DL shifts basically all Tokyo operations to HND.

Those flights would also need to take on increased burden of the station costs, which may shift profitability.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:57 am

alfa164 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
downdata wrote:
This is the first time i’ve seen someone start a question with “because”

His/her native tongue is obviously Spanish or Portuguese where "porque" means both "why" (in a question) and "because" in a reply to a question. The OP clearly doesn't have the command of English to distinguish that clearly, so he/she got it wrong. Not everybody's native tongue on here is English.
But maybe mods can help him/her out by correcting at least the title so it makes sense?


Just a slight correction:

"Why" is "por que";

"Because" is "porque".

If you set out to nitpick, then please get it right ;)

Spanish:

"why" is "por qué"

"because" is "porque"

Portuguese:

Both "why" and "because" is "porque"

My point was that obviously the OP is linguistically challenged, so - like a majority of native speakers of Spanish - he possibly doesn't realize the difference, as it sounds the same when spoken and is oftenmost used incorrectly even in respectable written media all across the hispanic world. And if the OP's native tongue is Portuguese, well...
 
global1
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Don’t know about SIN, but could DTW-NGO go to daily and the NGO-MNL tag be brought back? I don’t know how this might negatively affect aircraft utilization as the DTW-NGO flight now turns around and heads back to the States.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:08 pm

onwFan wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Agreed. Delta is toast on PDX-HND once JAL or ANA start service. It will be so much better for Portland residents to have connecting opportunities beyond Tokyo.

so? What about the connections east of PDX for the Asian customers? That was pretty short sighted.


I was suggesting that JL can offer way more destinations with AS than what DL does right now.


Lots of routes in the world survive on O and D traffic, not connections.
 
NZ321
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:20 pm

SIN is primarily about US military presence in SIN IMHO which is still substantial
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NZ321
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:21 pm

WHAT DL will do if and when they eliminate NRT is a question nobody is in a position to answer
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FlyHappy
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:41 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
Fuling wrote:
Delta is still recruiting Singapore based staff, so that gives some hope that it'll be around for a while longer.


Off topic, and not to hijack the thread, however, I find it interesting that people have a problem with airlines like Norwegian and others hiring foreign-based crew at local wages, but when Delta, United hire Asian based crew - or in the case of AA hiring from South America, it's of no interest. Just an interesting note.


Massive difference is that foreign cabin crews on US carriers provided important linguistic and cultural enhancement to the routes which had substantial local pax demand (ie, Spanish speaking FA's on EZE-MIA) or operated 5th freedoms (NRT-BKK) . This is one of the things that gave them global appeal at the time. Same is true with some others - I had an Asian family member working for Swiss; provided needed linguistics required for asian point of sale.
Tokyo or SIN based FA's aren't exactly cheap labor, ya know?

Contrast that with Norwegian or Ryan staffing flights from the lowest wage EU countries, specifically to bypass higher wage labor from their bases (UK, Ireland, Scandinavia) ; even more brazenly, Norwegian was reported (though unconfirmed by me) to have been flying long haul with Asian crews on routes never touching Asia.

Its fashionable to vilify the US carriers (and the EU legacies to a lesser extent) - but they have always been more employee friendly than the new breed of LCC's worldwide.
Personally, I don't want to fly long haul for $400 on the backs of low wage FA's, gate agents or ground staff. I want people paid well, regardless of nationality.
 
jagraham
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Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:42 pm

Will SIN be enough for DL to dedicate some 77Ls to it like they did with JFK-BOM?
 
kavok
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:48 pm

global1 wrote:
Don’t know about SIN, but could DTW-NGO go to daily and the NGO-MNL tag be brought back? I don’t know how this might negatively affect aircraft utilization as the DTW-NGO flight now turns around and heads back to the States.


I would guess that if DL wants to do some type of MNL/SIN tag flight from KIX/NGO, that for whichever location they chose (KIX or NGO), that they’d want to serve both DTW and SEA from that destination. SEA provides the west coast feed, DTW provides the eastern feed, and add in some local Japanese OD and you *might* get enough traffic to make it work.

Either way, I think DL would be wise to pick one of KIX or NGO and serve both MNL and SIN from that airport, rather than one from NGO and one from KIX. Since currently DL will only be serving KIX from SEA, and DTW from NGO, it would obviously require DL launching another flight to Japan from either SEA or DTW. I am not saying DL will do this, but I don’t think it is as unreasonable as some people think either. There are a lot of people traveling those routes who are required to fly a US flagged carrier, which essentially means DL is only competing with UA for that traffic.

The reason to pick one of KIX/NGO is so that the connecting flows from both the DTW and SEA flight can be combined to hopefully make it work to both SIN/MNL, which seems more possible than entirely relying on just SEA or DTW (and their cachement) for the feed and doing one each from NGO/KIX.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:58 pm

NZ321 wrote:
SIN is primarily about US military presence in SIN IMHO which is still substantial


I'd like to see some support for your statement.
The US military presence is trivial - a small Air Force training unit (integrated with SIN forces) of under 300 and a small Naval resupply/admin station (150 personnel) . The entire US presence is tiny, nothing like the historical bases in Europe, Philippines, Diego Garcia, Japan or now the Middle East.
There are far, far larger US military bases around the world with no US airlines nearby.

Notice how MNL is still running despite having MASSIVE US military bases closed decades ago?
I'd venture to bet on many days, the daily SIN-NRT has precisely zero US military on board.
SIN lives for as long as NRT does, and military has no role.
 
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enilria
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:06 pm

onwFan wrote:
And give it two years - I will be surprised if DL still flies MSP-HND (or PDX-HND - it is only a matter of time that JL jumps on the route in partnership with AS). I find it really hard to believe that DL will be able to profitably fly seven daily into HND - one each of SEA/PDX/LAX/MSP/DTW/ATL/HNL-HND. Even though DL has good visibility in Japan, most of DL's transpacific flights have been replicated at ICN over the past few years - I doubt if flights into both ICN and HND will be sustainable, but who knows...

kachun wrote:
I flew MSP-HND several times before and it's always been full or nearly full.

What I've seen with MSP is that the loads have built up nicely, but the yields are junk mostly because MSP doesn't really have any business ties to Japan. I think part of what has propped it up as much as it has been was that it was DL's only real hub with HND service and there has been a growing contingent of customers who prefer HND. I think once all these new HND routes open up they will see either a load or yield collapse on MSP-HND. I think the start of ICN-MSP is more or less in expectation that we will see that outcome. I'd be really surprised to see MSP keep HND and ICN. I think ICN will do well, but HND will be hit hard when all the new routes begin.

As for PDX. I can't believe it does well enough now to keep flying to NRT. Without any feed at HND I will be shocked to see it survive. If JL/NH entered DL would be crazy to even stay 1 second longer. With no feed on either end they would be demolished. I wonder if DL has a plan for where to ask to move the MSP and PDX slots already? I'm very puzzled by PDX-HND on DL. At least HND-HNL I can tell myself is there to build Japan point of sale brand strength...at great cost I suspect. IDK what PDX-HND is for. They can cover it very well over SEA and it's not as if DL is a hub carrier in PDX...maybe decades ago.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pm

downdata wrote:
This is the first time i’ve seen someone start a question with “because”


I got his/her meaning immediately from the title. Good use of language.
 
winginit
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:28 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
SIN is primarily about US military presence in SIN IMHO which is still substantial


I'd like to see some support for your statement.
The US military presence is trivial - a small Air Force training unit (integrated with SIN forces) of under 300 and a small Naval resupply/admin station (150 personnel) . The entire US presence is tiny, nothing like the historical bases in Europe, Philippines, Diego Garcia, Japan or now the Middle East.
There are far, far larger US military bases around the world with no US airlines nearby.

Notice how MNL is still running despite having MASSIVE US military bases closed decades ago?
I'd venture to bet on many days, the daily SIN-NRT has precisely zero US military on board.
SIN lives for as long as NRT does, and military has no role.


:checkmark:

I've flown DL's NRT-SIN numerous times, and almost every single time it was filled overwhelmingly with Japanese nationals who, by my estimate, were simply traveling between SIN and TYO.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:33 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
His/her native tongue is obviously Spanish or Portuguese where "porque" means both "why" (in a question) and "because" in a reply to a question. The OP clearly doesn't have the command of English to distinguish that clearly, so he/she got it wrong. Not everybody's native tongue on here is English.
But maybe mods can help him/her out by correcting at least the title so it makes sense?


Just a slight correction:

"Why" is "por que";

"Because" is "porque".

If you set out to nitpick, then please get it right ;)

Spanish:

"why" is "por qué"

"because" is "porque"

Portuguese:

Both "why" and "because" is "porque"

My point was that obviously the OP is linguistically challenged, so - like a majority of native speakers of Spanish - he possibly doesn't realize the difference, as it sounds the same when spoken and is oftenmost used incorrectly even in respectable written media all across the hispanic world. And if the OP's native tongue is Portuguese, well...


"Because DL has not canceled NRT-SIN, they plan to keep flights at NRT."
"Because DL has not canceled NRT-SIN, they will transfer the flight to HND."
"Because DL has not canceled NRT-SIN, they will transfer the flight to ICN."
"Because DL has not canceled NRT-SIN, they will start SEA-SIN."
etc. So many possibilities. A crude "Why?" doesn't have the whimsical power of "Because...".

A different way of expression, out of the ordinary. Not necessarily linguistically challenged - perhaps linguistically gifted.

Perhaps the poster will enlighten us which is true.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 837
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:49 pm

I never considered that DL could simply switch either or both of their remaining “interport” flights to a different Japanese metro (KIX seems most likely as has been mentioned). The question is, can they get those fifth freedom rights back? Could they compete with Singapore on a nonstop to the US (likely SEA or LAX, although I’m sure the DTW peeps will chime in about it too)? Would Korea ever give them fifth freedom rights in ICN? Would they even bother with that with Korean already flying it?
 
LurveBus
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:21 pm

Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:04 pm

questions wrote:
klakzky123 wrote:
SierraPacific wrote:
Is this the last of the Delta 5th freedom routes?

Sad to see the international network of Delta shrink from the glory days


I think they still operate NRT-MNL but yes there isn't much left anymore. And both of those are probably gone in 2020 once DL shifts to HND.


Is NRT-MNL mostly low-yielding, Japan-originating, vacationing passengers?

What does DL have over other carriers flying Tokyo-MNL?


Japan is the biggest investor in the Philippines, and there is plenty of business traffic there.


I’ve mentioned it before, but people are forgetting about the Tokyo olympics next year. I don’t think any airline will reduce their flying to Tokyo before that’s done.
 
questions
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Re: Because Delta (DL) has not canceled NRT-SIN?

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:26 pm

Could DL be holding out for possible additional slots in the future to eventually move to HND-SIN and HND-MNL?

Otherwise, unless DL is making a boatload on these routes, it would seem 1) the routes would go to KE, 2) the aircraft re-deployed and 3) DL NRT operations shut down — said another way, the profit on these two routes must be greater than doing those three things.

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