IWMBH
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FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:08 pm

Just wondering, I just checked the FX fleet on plane spotters and saw some of their 757’s are over 30 years old. When these plane will retire (I assume in the next 10 years?) what will replace them? Newer 757’s or will they maybe settle with the smaller 738?
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:17 pm

My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.
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flyfresno
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:30 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.


Interesting, had no idea they had 738s!
I’m curious:
1) What’s the difference between the two in cargo capacity?
2) How many airports does the 757 fly to that the 737 might struggle with, performance wise?
 
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Runway28L
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:31 pm

FedEx is utilizing their 757s much less than the prior airlines that owned them as passenger versions. That’s just the nature of cargo flying. Because of that, lower utilization extends the longevity of the frames.
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KFTG
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:32 pm

There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:42 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.


Is that a photoshop job? I don’t see it listed on airfleets.net.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:42 pm

flyfresno wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.


Interesting, had no idea they had 738s!
I’m curious:
1) What’s the difference between the two in cargo capacity?
2) How many airports does the 757 fly to that the 737 might struggle with, performance wise?


737-800BCF: 6540sqft cargo volume, 52800lbs payload limit.
757-200F: 7990-8500sqft cargo volume, 85000-88000lbs payload limit depending on conversion and engines/options.

So say 60% the capacity?
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northstardc4m
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:45 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:

Is that a photoshop job? I don’t see it listed on airfleets.net.


It belongs West Atlantic UK an affiliate operator, and there are others coming to others affiliates (ASL for example, rumors of Morningstar here in Canada getting some as well), but not FedEx itself yet.
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jetblueguy22
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 pm

KFTG wrote:
There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.

Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.
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Bhoy
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:02 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.


Is that a photoshop job? I don’t see it listed on airfleets.net.

You can see the red blue and yellow West Atlantic logo behind the wing - (formed by the merger of West Air Sweden and Atlantic Airways), so it's not operated on FedEx' AOC.
 
LHA320
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:07 am

Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?
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Bhoy
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:11 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.

Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.

I'm not so sure, FedEx took BA's last 757s when they left the fleet 8 years ago, and both United and Delta have considerably younger 757s than BA did - also, those that have been on TATL missions will have a lot fewer cycles than BA's short haul fleet had with up to 6 short haul rotations a day.
Having said that, the pmUA Pratt engines might not be to FedEx' taste, as they seem to have a lot of RB211s (though the pmCO RR fleet might go down better)
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:15 am

LHA320 wrote:
Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?


Memphis to Tijuana has to be up there on the longest flight that the FX 757 does
 
Fixinthe757
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:18 am

We converted the 757s for FedEx here in Mobile. I was actually part of that. FedEx wanted 119 aircraft, that's what they got. There are no plans to add anymore to their fleet. As stated earlier, the life for cargo planes is much longer than for passenger service planes, so they will be flying for FedEx for a long time to come. As far as Pratt powered planes, they only have around 14, give or take a couple.
 
LHA320
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 am

Bhoy wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.

Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.

I'm not so sure, FedEx took BA's last 757s when they left the fleet 8 years ago, and both United and Delta have considerably younger 757s than BA did - also, those that have been on TATL missions will have a lot fewer cycles than BA's short haul fleet had with up to 6 short haul rotations a day.
Having said that, the pmUA Pratt engines might not be to FedEx' taste, as they seem to have a lot of RB211s (though the pmCO RR fleet might go down better)


Well I think when UA is done with the pre merger CO 752s, they will bite the dust quite soon. As for now they have no replacement on order, so expect them in the UA fleet at least till 2022/2023. By the time I expect also FX to search the market for a decent replacement for the oldest 757. In the end it will come down to the 737NG and A32x conversions.

SierraPacific wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?


Memphis to Tijuana has to be up there on the longest flight that the FX 757 does


Seems like a route the 757 is the perfect aircraft for. As some already stated, the cargo aircraft have a longer live than all the pax aircraft, just look at the MD-10... Nevertheless the oldest FX 757 is a 1985 example.
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LHA320
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:31 am

Fixinthe757 wrote:
We converted the 757s for FedEx here in Mobile. I was actually part of that. FedEx wanted 119 aircraft, that's what they got. There are no plans to add anymore to their fleet. As stated earlier, the life for cargo planes is much longer than for passenger service planes, so they will be flying for FedEx for a long time to come. As far as Pratt powered planes, they only have around 14, give or take a couple.


Interesting. Do you know, what lifespan they expected to get out of the first conversions? They hit the 10 years of service mark know, so clearly they will have flown the conversion cost back in?!

I mean, I have heard of airlines which converted aircraft, just to use them 10 more years until they have cycled out.
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Moosefire
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:07 am

No inside knowledge on the cycles or planned lifespan, but the 75s easily do the most cycles of any fleet at FedEx. Given the short legs they fly, I wouldn’t be shocked if they’re doing more cycles a day than during their passenger days
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CX747
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:55 am

Thinking completely outside of the box, FEDEX runs the 757s until the late 2020s/early 2030s. Then acts as the launch customer for the Boeing NMA freighter. It should have about 3-5 years of service by then, have any kinks worked out and FEDEX will get a nice discount for ordering 100+.
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Fixinthe757
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:05 am

LHA320 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.[/q

Seems like a route the 757 is the perfect aircraft for. As some already stated, the cargo aircraft have a longer live than all the pax aircraft, just look at the MD-10... Nevertheless the oldest FX 757 is a 1985 example.

N935FD is an 83 model, line number 15. Over 36 years old. And will continue to rack up the years for a long time.
 
Transpac787
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:12 am

Fixinthe757 wrote:
We converted the 757s for FedEx here in Mobile. I was actually part of that. FedEx wanted 119 aircraft, that's what they got. There are no plans to add anymore to their fleet. As stated earlier, the life for cargo planes is much longer than for passenger service planes, so they will be flying for FedEx for a long time to come. As far as Pratt powered planes, they only have around 14, give or take a couple.


The number of Pratt & Whitney birds is closer to 40-50. They have north of 30 ex-United 757-222's alone: N770FD-N799FD, N988FD
 
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:15 am

Bhoy wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.

Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.

I'm not so sure, FedEx took BA's last 757s when they left the fleet 8 years ago, and both United and Delta have considerably younger 757s than BA did - also, those that have been on TATL missions will have a lot fewer cycles than BA's short haul fleet had with up to 6 short haul rotations a day.
Having said that, the pmUA Pratt engines might not be to FedEx' taste, as they seem to have a lot of RB211s (though the pmCO RR fleet might go down better)

They have over 30 UA 757s, all with PW engines...
 
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Revelation
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:35 am

CX747 wrote:
Thinking completely outside of the box, FEDEX runs the 757s until the late 2020s/early 2030s. Then acts as the launch customer for the Boeing NMA freighter. It should have about 3-5 years of service by then, have any kinks worked out and FEDEX will get a nice discount for ordering 100+.

It could play out that way, but I could see a lot of snags:
    o Boeing probably hopes the NMA production line is full of pax frames that early on in its life
    o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo
    o NMA's oviod shape means less space under the main deck
    o NMA presumably made of CFRP will not have freight grade main deck strength
    o NMA's size is more like 767 than 757
    o NMA will certainly cost a lot more than end of line 767s
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Cadet985
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:45 am

30 isn't that old for a FedEx aircraft. Most of their DC-10's are older than that; N375FE is 47.

But then you have carrier like ATN that have planes that ONLY do one round trip a day - ATN comes to mind...N605DL typically flies CVG-PHL early morning, and does the return run between 2200 and 0100 local. And doing one round trip a day might allow some of the older 757's, DC-10's, and MD-11's to operate for many more years.

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Elementalism
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:13 am

Maybe the 797 cargo version?
 
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:14 am

northstardc4m wrote:
My guess more 738s... they look decent:



It's a ways off anyways... the 757s are older but they still have useable life and good support in place.


The plane says FedEx, but it's actually a BCF leased by West Atlantic from GECAS. That said, I'm surprised that FedEx doesn't consider expansion with B738 converted freighters, for routes where the MTOW or range of the B752 isn't needed, in the USA, Europe, and China; some 757 routes could be replaced the B738 in the USA, with those B752s displaced to Asia-Pacific operations. Typically, a FedEx B752 only sees about 2-4 cycles a day...and so those 757s in service will be around for quite some time, even those that are 36 years old. I expect UPS or FedEx to be the last 757 operator.

Also, consider that FedEx owns all of its 757 fleet, including the ones leased to Morningstar in Canada. Most of the DC-10s are owned (a handful are still leased, including the one that went into the water at JFK while with SAS), but the MD-11s are leased. Likewise, UPS owns (or finances) all of its fleet, and I suspect that the 757s are fully paid off by now. They will fly at UPS and FedEx until they're no longer airworthy.
 
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Veigar
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:30 am

I believe the single ex America West 757 frame that wasn't scrapped is with FX now (N903AW)

..fun fact!
 
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flyPIT
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:32 am

When the day comes for a 757 replacement, I'm surprised no one mentioned new build 767s. E-commerce will double in the next 5 years; the added capacity of a 767 should easily be absorbed by then. No way will a 737 or similar size be a suitable 757 replacement.
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JayinKitsap
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:45 am

767's make good sense.
 
strfyr51
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:17 am

Bhoy wrote:
jetblueguy22 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There were will more used 757s hitting the market in the next 10 years or so. United and Delta in particular still have sizable fleets. If anything you'll probably see the FedEx 757 fleet grow in size.

Most of those will probably be high time, high cycle aircraft that don’t have enough life in them to be converted.

I'm not so sure, FedEx took BA's last 757s when they left the fleet 8 years ago, and both United and Delta have considerably younger 757s than BA did - also, those that have been on TATL missions will have a lot fewer cycles than BA's short haul fleet had with up to 6 short haul rotations a day.
Having said that, the pmUA Pratt engines might not be to FedEx' taste, as they seem to have a lot of RB211s (though the pmCO RR fleet might go down better)

what are you talking about? PWA is fully supporting the PW2040.
 
strfyr51
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 am

flyPIT wrote:
When the day comes for a 757 replacement, I'm surprised no one mentioned new build 767s. E-commerce will double in the next 5 years; the added capacity of a 767 should easily be absorbed by then. No way will a 737 or similar size be a suitable 757 replacement.

FEDEX and UPS are getting new 767F's aren't they?? And I'm sure Boeing would be happy to build theirs right along side of the USAF Tankers.
 
FatCat
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:56 am

just curious, hope this is a legit question

but since this

o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo


no dedicated B737 cargo frame fresh from the factory
airbus actually not producing any cargo aircraft of these dimensions

what will be the medium range cargo plane for the next 20, 30 years? do the cargo airlines have to rely only on P2F conversions?

and for the bigger ones,
I see B763Fs have a very nice cargo market - indeed is the B767 a truly successful airplane
I also see A332F not having a so nice cargo market, but why?
B747 - is the Queen still a thing?

thanks for all the nice answers
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jeffrey0032j
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:46 am

Revelation wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Thinking completely outside of the box, FEDEX runs the 757s until the late 2020s/early 2030s. Then acts as the launch customer for the Boeing NMA freighter. It should have about 3-5 years of service by then, have any kinks worked out and FEDEX will get a nice discount for ordering 100+.

o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo

This is more in context of a pax NMA, where they are likely to forgo trying to fit current LD3 containers in the underbelly.

There is nothing about the main deck freight capabilities so it makes the NMA somewhat a status quo in terms of cargo ops as compared to the 757.
 
IWMBH
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:00 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Revelation wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Thinking completely outside of the box, FEDEX runs the 757s until the late 2020s/early 2030s. Then acts as the launch customer for the Boeing NMA freighter. It should have about 3-5 years of service by then, have any kinks worked out and FEDEX will get a nice discount for ordering 100+.

o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo

This is more in context of a pax NMA, where they are likely to forgo trying to fit current LD3 containers in the underbelly.

There is nothing about the main deck freight capabilities so it makes the NMA somewhat a status quo in terms of cargo ops as compared to the 757.


Still, it would be a change in strategy for FX to buy such a new plane type. There newest ‘type’ is the 777 and that was 15 years old before FX bought it. They often wait for the production line to be more mature so Boeing/Airbus can give them a better deal.
 
Fixinthe757
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 am

The number of Pratt & Whitney birds is closer to 40-50. They have north of 30 ex-United 757-222's alone: N770FD-N799FD, N988FD[/quote]
You are correct. I had forgotten about the 770 series....ive been doing this for a long time and worked those for 7+ years, numbers tend to run together after a time. :D
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:45 am

strfyr51 wrote:
what are you talking about? PWA is fully supporting the PW2040.


The Pratt 757s may outlive the RR birds. Thanks to the C-17.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:08 pm

IWMBH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
Revelation wrote:
o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo

This is more in context of a pax NMA, where they are likely to forgo trying to fit current LD3 containers in the underbelly.

There is nothing about the main deck freight capabilities so it makes the NMA somewhat a status quo in terms of cargo ops as compared to the 757.


Still, it would be a change in strategy for FX to buy such a new plane type. There newest ‘type’ is the 777 and that was 15 years old before FX bought it. They often wait for the production line to be more mature so Boeing/Airbus can give them a better deal.

The 777F first flew in 2008, FedEx got theirs pretty quickly one year later in 2009.

As for the NMA, it depends on when Boeing decides to offer it as a freighter.
 
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Revelation
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:32 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Revelation wrote:
CX747 wrote:
Thinking completely outside of the box, FEDEX runs the 757s until the late 2020s/early 2030s. Then acts as the launch customer for the Boeing NMA freighter. It should have about 3-5 years of service by then, have any kinks worked out and FEDEX will get a nice discount for ordering 100+.

o Boeing has already said NMA will not be optimized for cargo

This is more in context of a pax NMA, where they are likely to forgo trying to fit current LD3 containers in the underbelly.

There is nothing about the main deck freight capabilities so it makes the NMA somewhat a status quo in terms of cargo ops as compared to the 757.

Well, if 757 sets the pattern, we should not expect to see significant number of NMA/797 freighters till there is sufficient number of used airframes on the market to make a P2F conversion likely, so not for another 20-30 years.

Then we run in to the issue that we have yet to see a plane with CFRP floor beams successfully converted to a freighter, and NMA will be an extra challenge with its ovoid design with beams in tension rather than compression.

And finally we should see 767 stay in production for more than a decade, given how many tankers and freighters are already ordered or are likely to be ordered as KC-135 continues to age and no alternative in its size and price class appears, and there will be a support chain in place for decades to come.

To me it is interesting to consider NMA, but I can't see it being a viable freighter for another 20 years or so, especially given the cheap and easy alternative of ordering a 767 instead with its cheap end of line pricing and the fact that FX already has the training and support infrastructure needs addressed for it.

I think the FX fleet of the future will be as many 757s as can be kept running with 767s taking over bigger 757 routes as 757 fades and 738 coming on to take over smaller routes.

Keep in mind 738 will have a support chain for decades to come due to P-8 and E-7 military applications and 767 will have the same due to KC-46.
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:04 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?


Memphis to Tijuana has to be up there on the longest flight that the FX 757 does

SEA-MEM is about 300 nm longer, but there may be longer flights still outside the U.S. that I'm not familiar with. They fly routes around Southeast Asia and into the Philippines, for instance.
 
IWMBH
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:32 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
This is more in context of a pax NMA, where they are likely to forgo trying to fit current LD3 containers in the underbelly.

There is nothing about the main deck freight capabilities so it makes the NMA somewhat a status quo in terms of cargo ops as compared to the 757.


Still, it would be a change in strategy for FX to buy such a new plane type. There newest ‘type’ is the 777 and that was 15 years old before FX bought it. They often wait for the production line to be more mature so Boeing/Airbus can give them a better deal.

The 777F first flew in 2008, FedEx got theirs pretty quickly one year later in 2009.

As for the NMA, it depends on when Boeing decides to offer it as a freighter.


Yeah but the production line was already optimised because of all the pax planes. My guess is that Boeing will do the same with the 797 and will launch the freighter program much later when the orders for the pax-versions are slowing down.
 
flyfresno
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:36 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?


Memphis to Tijuana has to be up there on the longest flight that the FX 757 does


Memphis to Fresno, which does not always operate as a non-stop (it sometimes stops in Denver, sometimes goes straight to Fresno), is longer.

Neither route seems that long for an aircraft that regularly operates transcon and even to Europe.
 
leoben
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed May 10, 2017 1:36 pm

Re: FedEx 757’s

Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:22 pm

SierraPacific wrote:
LHA320 wrote:
Maybe they will be interested in A321PCF, when they finally will get the program running.
https://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/de/fr ... 0a321-p2f/

What do you think? What is the longest FX 757 route? Any hot and high capabilities necessary?


Memphis to Tijuana has to be up there on the longest flight that the FX 757 does


MEM-TIJ (1550nm)

Occasionally see MEM-GEG (1660nm)

Last Peak had MIA-OAK (2570nm) and EWR-SEA (2400nm) in the schedule IIRC.

CGN crews operate to TLV from (CDG or LGG?) (2000+nm)

MEM-BOG (2320nm) was the longest regular flight, but has gone 767.
Now MEM-PTY (1910nm) is probably it now.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: FedEx 757’s

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 am

Revelation wrote:

Then we run in to the issue that we have yet to see a plane with CFRP floor beams successfully converted to a freighter, and NMA will be an extra challenge with its ovoid design with beams in tension rather than compression.


Just wondering of you have that backwards.

In a circle with interior positive pressure, the pressure is outwards, and any beam will be in tension. Therefore the planes with a circular cross section have beams in tension. Or do I misunderstand?

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