Page 2 of 2

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:41 pm
by musman9853
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.


I've flown AA J on 757/767/772/787. the 757 is the only one that wasn't that good, but it was a domestic flight so I didn't mind.


You're actually bonkers if you believe AA is the best J product vs EK. You actually flown a A380 on EK in J? Its so good.


yeah EK is incredibly gaudy. I haven't gotten a chance to fly on the a380 but the 777 ek seat is godawful. especially since ek flies more 777s than a380s, I'm judging ek's 7ab vs AA's 4 abreast reverse herringbone. the winner is quite clear.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:53 pm
by grbauc
stl07 wrote:
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:


yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


A joke right? Please say that is a joke....

Yea everyone who says that has never been on AA in business, especially when you end up on the older 777s and all 767s with no personal IFE


Yea Id rather fly AA over EK, and I know (have flown multi times) AA fleet strengths and weakness. To each his own doesn't mean its a joke. EK first class is a whole different story now. J class not so.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:55 pm
by grbauc
stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
SEU wrote:
A joke right? Please say that is a joke.

No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.



Some of there 772/767's are my favorite Daytime J seat.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:52 pm
by Galwayman
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:55 pm
by speedbird52
BlatantEcho wrote:
Also, I have no issues with EK biz class. Flown it a couple times. Want more, buy First.
I want a bed and nothing else on biz flight. That’s what you get here.

Most EK planes don't even have that. As a tall person I found it to be very uncomfortable for a Business seat, although it was okay in a bulkhead.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:23 am
by Dieuwer
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.


I've flown AA J on 757/767/772/787. the 757 is the only one that wasn't that good, but it was a domestic flight so I didn't mind.


You're actually bonkers if you believe AA is the best J product vs EK. You actually flown a A380 on EK in J? Its so good.


How long will the EK A380s actually be in service? It's not that EK can order a few more to replace the old ones...
My only experience flying EK A380 was BKK-DXB. The seat was ok, albeit cramped. And having the cabin full with chavs didn't help with the experience.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:45 am
by gatibosgru
Dieuwer wrote:
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

I've flown AA J on 757/767/772/787. the 757 is the only one that wasn't that good, but it was a domestic flight so I didn't mind.


You're actually bonkers if you believe AA is the best J product vs EK. You actually flown a A380 on EK in J? Its so good.


How long will the EK A380s actually be in service? It's not that EK can order a few more to replace the old ones...
My only experience flying EK A380 was BKK-DXB. The seat was ok, albeit cramped. And having the cabin full with chavs didn't help with the experience.


Fly private

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:55 am
by musman9853
Galwayman wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK


Aa' international flights tatl and tpac are perfectly fine for what I need and want

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:57 am
by Varsity1
AA's J seat is actually very good. It feels more private and less cramped than most.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:23 am
by Blerg
gatibosgru wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
SEU wrote:

You're actually bonkers if you believe AA is the best J product vs EK. You actually flown a A380 on EK in J? Its so good.


How long will the EK A380s actually be in service? It's not that EK can order a few more to replace the old ones...
My only experience flying EK A380 was BKK-DXB. The seat was ok, albeit cramped. And having the cabin full with chavs didn't help with the experience.


Fly private


No need to fly private when there are many other airlines out there that still offer a great premium product... or at least a better one than EK. The issue here is that EK is failing to get enough people who are willing to pay for their premium service so they are further digging their grave by cheapening the whole experience.

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:19 am
by hongkongflyer
runningformqm wrote:
ek is introducing unbundled j fares with a buyup required for seat assignments in advance and lounge access.

will be interesting to see who follows. ba already charges more for seats but includes lounge accesss. im guessing restricting access to lounges is more difficult for airlines in an alliance due to standard rules and partner lounge access.


They don't have such difficulties as EK is basically belongs to EK Alliance by themselves (except the JV with QF).
They don't belongs to any allowance and share their lounges with others/ or using others' lounge when they have their own in that airport.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:43 am
by anrec80
DocLightning wrote:
Do you honestly believe that J fares will decrease because of this? If you do, I have this wonderful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.


Obviously not. When UA and other US carriers introduced Basic Economy - the fares there were the same as regular economy, and other economy tiers were charged more.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:31 am
by kimimm19
MalevTU134 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
It's called Basic Economy. More and more airlines are introducing it.

Eh??? This is about business class...



Basic Business Class


Your base fare is that you get to stand in the business class cabin by the bar...

:banghead:

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:11 am
by Jomar777
Emirates seems to be going downhill or no longer trying to compete at the ME Market as much any longer.
I travel often to Dubai with them and to Qatar with Qatar Airways and the gap on the services widens constantly.
True - Qatar Airways does not offer limusine services on their 1st Class/Business but this is because most fliers on those classes are either Qataris - which get the benefit from elsewhere - or expats which will pay well for a good chaffeur service within Qatar (which is cheaper than most in the region anyway) and cliam the expense of a similar service in the UK/Europe anyway.
Their (EKs) service is going really towards Skytrax 3* now. I wonder why because there's no many competition (actually, this might be the case).
Even BAs offering to Dubai form London is looking good now although I hate the time they make it to DXB and the terminal they use.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:58 am
by EBiafore99
In the article, it mentions the unbundling as an alternative to offering premium economy. For me, it begs the question if this is a temporary measure to grab the premium economy customers until EK can add a true premium economy section on their aircraft?

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:30 pm
by dfdubflyer
Galwayman wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK


Lol sure you can... American is the largest airline in the world.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:40 pm
by MalevTU134
musman9853 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
musman9853 wrote:


yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK


Aa' international flights tatl and tpac are perfectly fine for what I need and want

Just avoid their 767s...

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:14 pm
by Galwayman
dfdubflyer wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
musman9853 wrote:


yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK


Lol sure you can... American is the largest airline in the world.


Sure possibly the largest ... but it’s really just a domestic airline In essence , few if any cities in India , China, Africa . Maybe 20 routes max to Europe ?

At the end of the day the market will decide and nobody else ... wish EK all the best with this new initiative

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:19 pm
by musman9853
MalevTU134 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:

Fly AA where exactly ? their international route network is nothing compared to EK

You can’t compare AA to a global airline like EK


Aa' international flights tatl and tpac are perfectly fine for what I need and want

Just avoid their 767s...


I actually didn't mind the 767s that much. It's obviously worse than the superdiamond seats in the 777/787 but it's fine. still better than club world lol

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:38 pm
by DocLightning
EBiafore99 wrote:
In the article, it mentions the unbundling as an alternative to offering premium economy. For me, it begs the question if this is a temporary measure to grab the premium economy customers until EK can add a true premium economy section on their aircraft?


I doubt it. With rare exceptions, once an airline downgrades a service, it doesn't get re-upgraded.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:51 pm
by dtw2hyd
EBiafore99 wrote:
In the article, it mentions the unbundling as an alternative to offering premium economy. For me, it begs the question if this is a temporary measure to grab the premium economy customers until EK can add a true premium economy section on their aircraft?


Cabin reconfiguration costs a boatload of money up front. If PE experiment is a failure, it is a dead investment or even a debt burden.

Ability to sell just the J bed for cash and upselling other amenities generates revenue without spending money upfront.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:14 pm
by dtw2hyd
kimimm19 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
It's called Basic Economy. More and more airlines are introducing it.

Eh??? This is about business class...



Basic Business Class


Your base fare is that you get to stand in the business class cabin by the bar...

:banghead:


There is too much ambiguity surrounding BBC. British Broadcasting Corporation, Boeing Brasil Commercial, now Basic Business Class and the real one.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:51 pm
by 3AWM
Based in the link initially it appears what is being unbundled is the lounge access and the car to the airport. Both of these I could live without.

Looking a bit further it appears that seat selection is unbundled - so sounds a bit of a crafty way to sell the middle seat than no-one wants, this would put me off but it would probably mean you get a better chance of getting the better seats if you pay full price.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:07 pm
by EBiafore99
dtw2hyd wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
In the article, it mentions the unbundling as an alternative to offering premium economy. For me, it begs the question if this is a temporary measure to grab the premium economy customers until EK can add a true premium economy section on their aircraft?


Cabin reconfiguration costs a boatload of money up front. If PE experiment is a failure, it is a dead investment or even a debt burden.

Ability to sell just the J bed for cash and upselling other amenities generates revenue without spending money upfront.


I agree a cabin reconfiguration is a boatload of money; however, future deliveries could have it. If you look at DL, they started PE with new deliveries and then are slowly reconfiguring current aircraft.

Also, IMO, PE is past the 'experimental" stage. AF, BA, LH in Europe and AC, AA, Dl and UA in the US have it or are installing it. I also believe QF has it as well. Those are a lot of major airlines to commit to PE.

Finally, I'm not sure selling just the J bed will bring in extra cash. It may cannibalize the existing J travelers who used to pay for the full J fare. PE is an entirely different type of product for those airlines who have it, which may mean less cannibalization from J class. However, revenue management is one of those areas I will never understand, so I could be totally wrong.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:36 pm
by dtw2hyd
EBiafore99 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
In the article, it mentions the unbundling as an alternative to offering premium economy. For me, it begs the question if this is a temporary measure to grab the premium economy customers until EK can add a true premium economy section on their aircraft?


Cabin reconfiguration costs a boatload of money up front. If PE experiment is a failure, it is a dead investment or even a debt burden.

Ability to sell just the J bed for cash and upselling other amenities generates revenue without spending money upfront.


I agree a cabin reconfiguration is a boatload of money; however, future deliveries could have it. If you look at DL, they started PE with new deliveries and then are slowly reconfiguring current aircraft.

Also, IMO, PE is past the 'experimental" stage. AF, BA, LH in Europe and AC, AA, Dl and UA in the US have it or are installing it. I also believe QF has it as well. Those are a lot of major airlines to commit to PE.

Finally, I'm not sure selling just the J bed will bring in extra cash. It may cannibalize the existing J travelers who used to pay for the full J fare. PE is an entirely different type of product for those airlines who have it, which may mean less cannibalization from J class. However, revenue management is one of those areas I will never understand, so I could be totally wrong.


I am fairly positive EK won't be taking net 36 frames/year in coming years. Very hard to get a fleet-wide PE product without major cabin reconfig effort.

Western airlines diluted Y product to sell PE. I am not sure EK can do that with QR/EY still in business. QR Y = EK PE will be AAB's tagline.

IMHO, EK was discounting J heavily and used to offer free upgrades. It clamped down free upgrades and also tightened FFP rules. If I recall correctly now the highest fare paid SkyWards member in Y gets the upgrade to J not the pax with highest miles.. I could be wrong on the last statement.

I think there is enough sale potential for unbundled J bed.

Just my opinion.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:37 pm
by ScottB
3AWM wrote:
Based in the link initially it appears what is being unbundled is the lounge access and the car to the airport. Both of these I could live without.

Looking a bit further it appears that seat selection is unbundled - so sounds a bit of a crafty way to sell the middle seat than no-one wants, this would put me off but it would probably mean you get a better chance of getting the better seats if you pay full price.


What I really think is happening is that this is a way for EK to institute a back-door fare increase on J while still remaining price-competitive on fare search engines. For passengers who shop for the least expensive J seat, they can match QR/TK/EY/etc. and save a bit of money (mostly on the chauffeured ride) or upsell the passenger to the package that includes the black car ride/lounge/seat selection. Regular EK passengers will have to pay more for the same product as before.

dtw2hyd wrote:
Ability to sell just the J bed for cash and upselling other amenities generates revenue without spending money upfront.


Except there's no way that selling a reduced-amenity J product is remotely cost-competitive with premium economy. Seat density for PE on a widebody is probably 2-3x that of J. Depending on locale, dropping the car to the airport and lounge access might save them $20-50 per passenger. Seat assignment has virtually zero cost to the airline.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:17 pm
by Dieuwer
Let' sum it up by saying: "Penny Wise, Pound Foolish".

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 pm
by Karlsands
seansasLCY wrote:
Please try to use capital letters and punctuation when posting. It makes the post much easier to read.

This move doesn't surprise me. EY and QR recently offered lounge upgrades (Using the First lounge if in J for a fee) and buying amenity kits.

Well you obviously could read it enough to reply. So hey calm down mate

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 pm
by Karlsands
dtw2hyd wrote:
kimimm19 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Eh??? This is about business class...



Basic Business Class


Your base fare is that you get to stand in the business class cabin by the bar...

:banghead:


There is too much ambiguity surrounding BBC. British Broadcasting Corporation, Boeing Brasil Commercial, now Basic Business Class and the real one.

Hahahaha that big black oops