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EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:31 pm
by runningformqm
ek is introducing unbundled j fares with a buyup required for seat assignments in advance and lounge access.

will be interesting to see who follows. ba already charges more for seats but includes lounge accesss. im guessing restricting access to lounges is more difficult for airlines in an alliance due to standard rules and partner lounge access.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:41 pm
by vhtje
Source?

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:50 pm
by seansasLCY
Please try to use capital letters and punctuation when posting. It makes the post much easier to read.

This move doesn't surprise me. EY and QR recently offered lounge upgrades (Using the First lounge if in J for a fee) and buying amenity kits.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:55 pm
by Ziyulu
It's called Basic Economy. More and more airlines are introducing it.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:57 pm
by runningformqm
vhtje wrote:
Source?


Lucky posted it: https://onemileatatime.com/emirates-bus ... cial-fare/

(Wasnt sure if posting blog posts is allowed)

seansasLCY wrote:
Please try to use capital letters and punctuation when posting. It makes the post much easier to read.


Sorry about that, I type quickly on the iphone.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:01 pm
by MalevTU134
Ziyulu wrote:
It's called Basic Economy. More and more airlines are introducing it.

Eh??? This is about business class...

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:03 pm
by tphuang
if this makes their j seats more affordable out of NYC, I'm fine with it.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:12 pm
by DolphinAir747
Let's hope they unbundle meals next! Would rather eat at a real restaurant before/after and bring a snack to eat onboard rather than having month-old reheated plane food!

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:14 pm
by mutu
runningformqm wrote:
ek is introducing unbundled j fares with a buyup required for seat assignments in advance and lounge access.

ba already charges more for seats but includes lounge accesss. .


True but the purpose of this charge was to ensure members of the higher levels of its FFP were able to select (the better) seats (free) whenever they booked. So it is in effect a benefit to some. Also full fare pax are not charged either.

Double edged sword I know but as a higher level member of the BAEC I find this a very positive policy!

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:17 pm
by AEROFAN
tphuang wrote:
if this makes their j seats more affordable out of NYC, I'm fine with it.


Don't think it will make J anymore affordable. BA's J class is no more affordable for charging a fee for prebooking a seat in J. As a matter, of fact sometimes it charges way more than its competition.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:31 pm
by MalevTU134
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Let's hope they unbundle meals next! Would rather eat at a real restaurant before/after and bring a snack to eat onboard rather than having month-old reheated plane food!

You must not have travelled in EK's Business Class very much. Month-old reheated food?? You mean this? :

https://www.google.com/search?q=emirate ... LkskCAmCVM

Also, you realize that many of EK's flights are 14 hours and more? Eat before and bring a snack? Yeah, sure...

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:32 pm
by runningformqm
mutu wrote:
True but the purpose of this charge was to ensure members of the higher levels of its FFP were able to select (the better) seats (free) whenever they booked. So it is in effect a benefit to some. Also full fare pax are not charged either.


In J there really isnt the same variance in seat quality as there is in Y. I can only see this being a very marginal increase to elites. And many nonelites will likely pay up and pick the "best" J seats anyways.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:40 pm
by airbazar
runningformqm wrote:
mutu wrote:
True but the purpose of this charge was to ensure members of the higher levels of its FFP were able to select (the better) seats (free) whenever they booked. So it is in effect a benefit to some. Also full fare pax are not charged either.


In J there really isnt the same variance in seat quality as there is in Y. I can only see this being a very marginal increase to elites. And many nonelites will likely pay up and pick the "best" J seats anyways.


Uh? Half of their fleet has a J cabin with a middle seat. Sorry but I don't pay J fares to sit in a middle seat.

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:04 pm
by usflyer msp
S7 in Russia has done this for several years...

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:59 pm
by VSMUT
mutu wrote:
runningformqm wrote:
ek is introducing unbundled j fares with a buyup required for seat assignments in advance and lounge access.

ba already charges more for seats but includes lounge accesss. .


True but the purpose of this charge was to ensure members of the higher levels of its FFP were able to select (the better) seats (free) whenever they booked. So it is in effect a benefit to some. Also full fare pax are not charged either.

Double edged sword I know but as a higher level member of the BAEC I find this a very positive policy!


Double edged sword indeed. As someone who gets my business class tickets paid by the employer due to contractual requirements, I am almost certain that they will go for the cheapest option. Lounge would not a problem for the most part, my status cards would take care of that with most airlines (i.e. access to Star Alliance partners lounges using my SAS Eurobonus card etc.), but given that Emirates is non-aligned, I think I will try to skip them in the future. ¨

The more I think about this, the more I am puzzled about it. I could see why lounge access maybe doesn't mean so much when flying direct from Europe to Asia. You show up 2 hours before the flight (spending maybe 40 minutes at the lounge) and then head off for 12 hours in the plane. Emirates on the other hand lives off of connections at their hub. Passengers will spend much more time waiting around in airports. On top of the aforementioned wait at the origin, you could easily have 3 to 12 hours of waiting time at Dubai. Why would they want to put themselves at such a disadvantage?

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:03 pm
by dtw2hyd
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Let's hope they unbundle meals next! Would rather eat at a real restaurant before/after and bring a snack to eat onboard rather than having month-old reheated plane food!


If you recall Mueller was bought in as digital transformation officer to change EK's IT systems to support the al-a-carte model and discard current class segregation model. Not sure how far their systems are to support the envisioned al-a-carte model. With current IT systems, airlines have to create another class, say Cheapo Business.

I would love to see everything unbundled except for the flatbed, IFE, and WiFi. Even the latter two.

I am a non-alcoholic vegetarian. In general not a fan of airline food. Some of the world's best restaurants are on the ground. So, I don't want to pay for my co-passengers' DP, Hennessey, Caviar, Filet mignon ... from my pocket. Economy AVML will do just fine.

Don't need chaffer pickup.
Don't need a lounge, prefer short connections.

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:56 pm
by 1ffb2002
Idea for Emirates, why not install credit card readers on the seat and charge for reclining, and then charge extra for flat bed. Hey, makes about as much sense for charging for seat selection.

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:00 pm
by Dieuwer
It's a joke to call 2-3-2 "business class" to begin with (AirFrance A380 has 2-3-2 in PE) and now this? In a decade from now, we will point to this news as the start of the collapse of EK towards an also-ran LCC (aka the Norwegian of the Middle East).
People who want to fly a REAL business class product won't fly EK no longer. Better switch to EY, QR, or a quality Asian carrier.

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:11 pm
by Ziyulu
Since other airlines have Basic Economy, Emirates is going with Basic Business!

Re: EK unbundling J Class

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:32 am
by RyanairGuru
Dieuwer wrote:
People who want to fly a REAL business class product won't fly EK no longer. Better switch to EY, QR, or a quality Asian carrier.


Bollocks.

Obviously this move (if true) is obviously going to degrade this somewhat, but right now EK J is head and shoulders above EY, at least on EK's A380s. It's the 777 product that lets EK down. With the rampant cost cutting going on at EY the food, even in J and F, is really poor quality and EK are now much better for catering from nose to tail. EK offer chauffer drive to ever J passenger, something neither EY or QR offer. EY have stripped out pyjamas (available to pay for onboard).

EY offer a nice seat but lacklustre service, EK offer decent service but a lacklustre seat on some of their planes but a perfect adequate seat on the others.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:19 am
by upperdeckfan
mutu wrote:
True but the purpose of this charge was to ensure members of the higher levels of its FFP were able to select (the better) seats (free) whenever they booked. So it is in effect a benefit to some. Also full fare pax are not charged either.



Don't need to charge to enable your hi-tier FF's to select the best seats for free, just block the better seats from your seat selection engine so only hi-tier FF's and full fare pax can get them at the tinme of booking, LX does that by blocking the so called "throne" seats on the 1-2-2 config.

Re: ek unbundling j

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:22 am
by VSMUT
dtw2hyd wrote:
DolphinAir747 wrote:
Let's hope they unbundle meals next! Would rather eat at a real restaurant before/after and bring a snack to eat onboard rather than having month-old reheated plane food!


If you recall Mueller was bought in as digital transformation officer to change EK's IT systems to support the al-a-carte model and discard current class segregation model. Not sure how far their systems are to support the envisioned al-a-carte model. With current IT systems, airlines have to create another class, say Cheapo Business.

I would love to see everything unbundled except for the flatbed, IFE, and WiFi. Even the latter two.

I am a non-alcoholic vegetarian. In general not a fan of airline food. Some of the world's best restaurants are on the ground. So, I don't want to pay for my co-passengers' DP, Hennessey, Caviar, Filet mignon ... from my pocket. Economy AVML will do just fine.

Don't need chaffer pickup.
Don't need a lounge, prefer short connections.


If you think fares will get cheaper for you without everything thrown in, I have some bad news. Airlines will just pocket the savings and charge more for the rest. Fares didn't get lower since airlines stopped including checked suitcases and hand luggage.

EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:38 pm
by LAX772LR
Shouldn't be a shock: they warned us that they were gonna do it.

Say goodbye to "free" lounge access, assigned seats, concierge, etc.
Say hello to Special, Saver, Flex, and Flex Plus options in EK business class.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... ass-fares/

Still sorta surprised that they've implemented it as "quickly" as they have; but will be interesting to see who follows; in what regards, and how quickly.

Image

Do sorta feel that this was inevitable though, as the evolution of Premium Economy continues.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:01 pm
by AIRT0M
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:07 pm
by BlatantEcho
This actually seems really smart and obvious in retrospect. Bet other airlines will follow suit.

Why make people pay for stuff they don’t want?


Also, I have no issues with EK biz class. Flown it a couple times. Want more, buy First.
I want a bed and nothing else on biz flight. That’s what you get here.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:12 pm
by GlobalAirways
It will be interesting to see how they price (value) those "add-on" features into the total fare. IMHO this take the fun out of business class if it is too high $$$. A very easy way to put people in those awful middle seats.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:12 pm
by DocLightning
BlatantEcho wrote:
Want more, buy First.


That's what people said when airlines started unbundling Y. So I guess we're just going to unbundle everything now. Because F is next.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:15 pm
by airzona11
The unbundling makes sense, it is a way to "up sell" or add value perception. Head to head on routes, this is an opportunity for other airlines, but with the massive DXB hub, no doubt business class cabin folks are price conscious as well, even if being less price sensitive.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:24 pm
by AEROFAN
As long as the price points between the various business classes are material....I suspect though, the delta between the levels will not be material and they will still require you to pay the add on. Just like British Airways does for the option to pre book a seat. I refuse to fly BA for this reason and once other carriers follow - they won't get my business either.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:25 pm
by Blerg
This makes little sense and I don't think it will work out well for them. People who book business are usually people who can afford it, either because they themselves are rich or because the company they work for is. Degrading a product that is supposed to be premium will only drive people to book flights on airlines such as Qatar or Turkish Airlines that keep on improving their own premium product. To me this seems like they are trying to make business class more affordable to those who otherwise couldn't afford it. It can attract unwanted customers the same way it did in economy class.

I think the only thing they will achieve with this is to cheapen their brand and make less value to fly with EK. If they are struggling to fill those premium seats then I think it would be wiser to reconfigure their aircraft and to add more premium economy and economy seats.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:25 pm
by musman9853
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:31 pm
by AEROFAN
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.


Flew this config a few years ago from JFK. While I wasn't in the middle 4, it did not look comfortable.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:44 pm
by N408BN
Boy! Times have really changed, Google "Braniff coach meals" and check the images. And remember, they were all complimentary.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:49 pm
by SEU
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


A joke right? Please say that is a joke....

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:52 pm
by Dieuwer
Blerg wrote:
This makes little sense and I don't think it will work out well for them. People who book business are usually people who can afford it, either because they themselves are rich or because the company they work for is. Degrading a product that is supposed to be premium will only drive people to book flights on airlines such as Qatar or Turkish Airlines that keep on improving their own premium product. To me this seems like they are trying to make business class more affordable to those who otherwise couldn't afford it. It can attract unwanted customers the same way it did in economy class.

I think the only thing they will achieve with this is to cheapen their brand and make less value to fly with EK. If they are struggling to fill those premium seats then I think it would be wiser to reconfigure their aircraft and to add more premium economy and economy seats.


Indeed.
EK = Norwegian of the Middle East?

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:56 pm
by Brickell305
DocLightning wrote:
BlatantEcho wrote:
Want more, buy First.


That's what people said when airlines started unbundling Y. So I guess we're just going to unbundle everything now. Because F is next.


Next time, it'll be "fly private" or "learn to fly yourself". I genuinely don't get why people on this board seem so enthusiastic about reductions in service.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:10 pm
by smartplane
This is partly in response to major clients, who reimburse / authorise business class for trip durations over X hours. Now they can authorise business basic.

Will also tap new revenue streams. When upgraded, gives EK the opportunity to extract fees for add-ons.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:11 pm
by DocLightning
smartplane wrote:
This is partly in response to major clients, who reimburse / authorise business class for trip durations over X hours. Now they can authorise business basic.

Will also tap new revenue streams. When upgraded, gives EK the opportunity to extract fees for add-ons.


Do you honestly believe that J fares will decrease because of this? If you do, I have this wonderful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 pm
by stl07
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


A joke right? Please say that is a joke....

Yea everyone who says that has never been on AA in business, especially when you end up on the older 777s and all 767s with no personal IFE

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:24 pm
by stl07
MalevTU134 wrote:
Already being discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1424567

This one has a source attached with more information

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:50 pm
by LAX772LR
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.

A joke right? Please say that is a joke.

No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:55 pm
by smartplane
DocLightning wrote:
smartplane wrote:
This is partly in response to major clients, who reimburse / authorise business class for trip durations over X hours. Now they can authorise business basic.

Will also tap new revenue streams. When upgraded, gives EK the opportunity to extract fees for add-ons.


Do you honestly believe that J fares will decrease because of this? If you do, I have this wonderful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

The benefits will be shared with valued corporates, but otherwise, no.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:58 pm
by stl07
LAX772LR wrote:
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.

A joke right? Please say that is a joke.

No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:02 pm
by LAX772LR
stl07 wrote:
those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again

Awesome. Now if you can just direct us to an independently verifiable medium/forum where said people are saying this.... that'd be great.
I'd be particularly interesting to learn why they're doing it for that 777 part, seeing as the 77Es were retrofitted with the 77W/787's product starting 4yrs ago.

Bonus points if you can do so without citing to "people I know," or something as ridiculous as FlyerTalk.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:10 pm
by N776AU
Sounds like just another way to disguise a price hike to me.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:14 pm
by CURQ400
stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
SEU wrote:
A joke right? Please say that is a joke.

No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.


What are you on about with the “older 777s”?
The older 777s have a newer interior than the new 777s. They are excellent and as far as widebodies go, have one of the best hard products out there.

The 767 is pretty bad, but they’re on their way out and easy to avoid. The 75L isn’t necessarily the best seat either, but the J product is comparable with with their US competitors. (Same seat, except for tablet IFE.)

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:41 pm
by musman9853
SEU wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
AIRT0M wrote:
The EK biz in this pic looks vile. Wouldn't want to be trapped in the middle seat.

I'm sure many people will want to try the biz, if they can get a special deal, though. I guess some people don't care about lounge access or limo pick up, as long as they get a comfy seat.



yeah idk why people rate the European/ME carriers so highly. I'd much rather fly AA than EK.


A joke right? Please say that is a joke....


Completely serious. I've flown J from a bunch of airlines, including BA and EK. AA is the best I've experienced

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:42 pm
by musman9853
stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
SEU wrote:
A joke right? Please say that is a joke.

No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.


I've flown AA J on 757/767/772/787. the 757 is the only one that wasn't that good, but it was a domestic flight so I didn't mind.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:22 pm
by SEU
musman9853 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
No, it's not a joke, and I agree with him.... I'd happily take AA's J on their 77W or 788 over EK's J offering on any of their aircraft.

QR, no. EK, absolutely.

AA's fleet is so diverse that those who take their 767 and older 777s say never again while those who take their 77W and 788s say its better than airline X.


I've flown AA J on 757/767/772/787. the 757 is the only one that wasn't that good, but it was a domestic flight so I didn't mind.


You're actually bonkers if you believe AA is the best J product vs EK. You actually flown a A380 on EK in J? Its so good.

Re: EK launches unbundled Business: to charge for seat assignment, lounge, etc

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:22 pm
by grbauc
BlatantEcho wrote:
This actually seems really smart and obvious in retrospect. Bet other airlines will follow suit.

Why make people pay for stuff they don’t want?


Also, I have no issues with EK biz class. Flown it a couple times. Want more, buy First.
I want a bed and nothing else on biz flight. That’s what you get here.


Because it sells the the product has a whole. Separate lounge access and maybe 80% don't take it and lounges become unprofitable. Sometimes the whole package sells the seat rather then just the seat alone. I'd imagine this is the argument on why some would not want them split up..

On EK J seat well for the money they charge compared to other airlines there J seat its lacking for my taste. Its kinda a con job there J seat it piggybacks off there big brothers (fist-class) reputation imop.
If i want more the jump to FC is substantial BlatantEcho so I just pick another airline. To each his own happy flying.