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TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1781
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:39 pm

zeke wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Regulatory approval for livery changes is only for nationalized airlines.

Private airlines can do as they please.


Dont think that is entirely correct. Air Asia and Jetstar come to mine where different branches ave had to have livery changes to meet the local requirements. The local regulator wanted a visual difference between aircraft so the public was not confused if it is an Japanese, Chinese, Indonesian, India, Philippines, Thai, Malaysian Air Asia etc.


The only visible difference I can see on AirAsia liveries is the flag.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
PB26
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:09 am

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Just a trivia abou livery and government...

In 1980 Cruzeiro do Sul received two A300B4 and its owner, the Varig, used them in the GIG-SSA-REC-BEL-MIA route. All the Varig and Cruzeiro schedules were syncronized to avoid overlap in the network.

For a while, the MIA controllers got confused to see a Cruzeiro's plane landing with Varig callsign. The FAA reminded Varig that the authorization to fly between US and Brazil was given to Varig and not Cruzeiro. Since then, the Varig received others 2 A300 and deployed to MIA routes.

Image
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:39 pm

One exception to the original question not answered is if the OP's question refers to trademarked material.

Any business with a logo is going to trademark it, so as to prevent unscrupulous characters out there from capitalizing on a similar design, purposely used to trick people into thinking they are buying from company A, when indeed, company A is not involved.

If United suddenly announced they were changing their logo to a waving American flag, a certain other AAirline might throw a fit, and rightfully so - in a court of law, there would simply be too much confusion. I know that's an impossibility, but it shows that there are limits to what an airline can do with their aircraft exteriors.

Any company that is going to have a visible presence and a logo to go with their name is going to trademark it and protect it. Only then will you see any kind of "new" design on their product.

But as has been stated before, minor changes, such as Delta reversing the blue and the red, wouldn't even be a blip on anyone else's radar.
 
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SierraPacific
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 1:48 am

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:26 pm

On a slightly related note, isn't regulation why Polar Air Cargo is still separate from Atlas Air?

It has always been very strange to me that Atlas and Polar never merged their certificates together.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1024
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:28 pm

When ICAO was established, there was a section under general rules and standards, where logos and colours were submitted to ensure no conflict / confusion.

Graphics capabilities are so diverse now, that other than deliberate imitation, everyone wants to be distinctive. But back in the day, THE colour scheme was a cheat line and a logo on the tail...... Even an argument in the 50's and 60's, that airlines flying internationally, cheat line colour should be country specific (dark blue for the UK).
 
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aerolimani
Posts: 1134
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:54 pm

Every time I look up and see Air Canada or Delta flying past, it takes extra time to determine one from the other. At a distance, they appear way too similar, IMO.
 
Lootess
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:39 am

rta wrote:
There are probably regulations that airlines have to follow for marking doors, emergency windows, registration, etc but as long as they meet them, I doubt the specific livery matters that much. Just a guess.


Yes, registration and national flag are basically a worldwide standard. Just like any license plate.'

I also salute Delta for ditching emergency EXIT/SALIDA signs for the more world-standard, green person running towards exit sign on newer Airbus.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 591
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:27 pm

kdeg00 wrote:
It's an oddball question, but but bear with me. Driving north this morning and watched an AS 737 in new livery take off towards west from PDX. From my distance of about a mile, and the angle of light, it looked easily mistakable the new LH scheme. Got me to wondering if there is regulatory oversight to maintain differentiation?

With regard to your question, I don’t think there’d be any regulation preventing an airline from painting in a similar scheme to another airline anymore than there’d be a regulation which stops a local burger restaurant owner from painting his store in similar colors to McDonald’s. However, the airline being copied would likely have the right to sue as McDonald’s would in the burger joint analogy.

Speaking to the broader point of liveries, yes there are regulations on branding. A case I’m extremely familiar with is that of Caribbean Airlines/Air Jamaica explained here https://worldairlinenews.com/2012/07/22 ... brand/amp/

That was enforced by the Trinidad and Tobago Civil Aviation Authority. However, I do believe similar policies are in place in most countries. Neither American nor Delta for example could simply decide tomorrow to change their brand name to “Amazing Airlines” and start painting their planes accordingly without seeking approval for the name change.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:01 pm

Lootess wrote:
rta wrote:
There are probably regulations that airlines have to follow for marking doors, emergency windows, registration, etc but as long as they meet them, I doubt the specific livery matters that much. Just a guess.


Yes, registration and national flag are basically a worldwide standard. Just like any license plate.'

I also salute Delta for ditching emergency EXIT/SALIDA signs for the more world-standard, green person running towards exit sign on newer Airbus.


Then again, the typical American passenger actually flying on that aircraft has likely never seen that symbol before and it could just add confusion in an emergency. The safety video even goes out of its way to mention what the sign means.
 
Lootess
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Is regulatory approval required for livery changes?

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:00 am

OB1504 wrote:
Lootess wrote:
rta wrote:
There are probably regulations that airlines have to follow for marking doors, emergency windows, registration, etc but as long as they meet them, I doubt the specific livery matters that much. Just a guess.


Yes, registration and national flag are basically a worldwide standard. Just like any license plate.'

I also salute Delta for ditching emergency EXIT/SALIDA signs for the more world-standard, green person running towards exit sign on newer Airbus.


Then again, the typical American passenger actually flying on that aircraft has likely never seen that symbol before and it could just add confusion in an emergency. The safety video even goes out of its way to mention what the sign means.


Delta does flex the video depending on the aircrafts with EXIT/SALIDA or the green exit. I'm pretty sure most Americans will know what it means when the cabin lights are out and it's the only above lighting

EXIT/SALIDA vs green is like imperial versus metric now.

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