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longhauler
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:40 pm

jfern022 wrote:
Can't confirm it, but a UA pilot posted elsewhere, it was a new hire FO on his IOE. If so, thats not good for him/her.


The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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Acey559
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:53 pm

One thing I’ve noticed flying the 757 (and the 767 for that matter) is if the reversers are deployed before the nosewheel is on the ground, the nose has a tendency to want to drop pretty rapidly so one has to be ready for that. It’s not violent and nothing that can’t be overcome, but if it’s true that the FO is on IOE, he/she may have popped the reversers and not been ready to arrest the nose. Of course, I have no idea if that’s what happened here, but I can see it happening fairly easily with someone new to the jet.
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bennett123
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:05 pm

Are the TR normally deployed before the nose wheel is down?.
 
N649DL
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:09 pm

reltney wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Could hydraulic failure have anything to do with it? Seems to be a common problem with the 757 and 767 series.



Well as I fly the 757/767 and our airline has about 200 of them, I never heard of any”common problem” with hydraulics. Maybe with a 2nd rate airline with poor maintenance. Heck, I never had any hydraulic issues in the 15 years I was on the plane. Hope that did not jinx me...

No hydraulic failure or blown tire combination would cause the nose to slam down.

If the pilot was hard on the brakes or set a high setting on the auto brakes and they were applied with the nose high in the air can cause a heavy nose wheel touchdown, but you would be a poor pilot to let that happen as the 757 has a powerful elevator.and you can compensate the nose down action caused by braking with the nose in the air. It’s a balance .

Delta had one of these on a 757 in FLL when a management pilot (usually the least proficient and lowest time pilots). forced the plane on the ground as he was 20kts fast. They wrinkled the fuselage and the nose wheel looked like the one on the United 757.

Cheers


That's a s***load of damage for a hard landing. I don't think I've ever seen this type of thing on a 757 where the nose gear is pushed into the body of the aircraft and cracks it. Is there an accident report for these types of incidents like the DL flight in FLL?

Also, why exactly would this happen? Was it extremely windy in EWR or something?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:19 pm

I actually watched it happen as I was there to pick up my sister. The landing didn't look terribly or too abnormal until the end where I noticed it slid left. Little pieces of debris went flying.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:22 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
That will leave a nasty mark! The question is if that’s repairable. Did the main gear blow out to cause the nose gear to smash onto the runway? I see single runway operations when EWR reopens.


It's repairable, even if they need to cut off the nose and graft on a new one. More extreme things have been done. But the question is whether it's worth it on a 22yo airframe.
flyingclrs727 wrote:
With all the shortage of planes caused by the 737 Max groundings, UA will probably want to return this 757 to service.


That's going to figure into it, yes, but can she be repaired in a short enough timeframe to mitigate that loss of lift? There are also a bunch of 757s in storage that could be pressed into service. At least UA owns this bird, so the decision is all theirs.
-Doc Lightning-

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N649DL
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:30 pm

DocLightning wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
That will leave a nasty mark! The question is if that’s repairable. Did the main gear blow out to cause the nose gear to smash onto the runway? I see single runway operations when EWR reopens.


It's repairable, even if they need to cut off the nose and graft on a new one. More extreme things have been done. But the question is whether it's worth it on a 22yo airframe.
flyingclrs727 wrote:
With all the shortage of planes caused by the 737 Max groundings, UA will probably want to return this 757 to service.


That's going to figure into it, yes, but can she be repaired in a short enough timeframe to mitigate that loss of lift? There are also a bunch of 757s in storage that could be pressed into service. At least UA owns this bird, so the decision is all theirs.


That's true. It could be a good excuse to pull a few frames out on the account of the damaged sCO 757 and the MAX ban. All frames in the desert would be sUA (PW powered) 757s so while not an exact match, they probably could use a few as the ex-PS fleet is stretched thin already. The main difference is the sCO 757s can fly TATL, the sUA bird haven't.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:34 pm

N649DL wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
[All frames in the desert would be sUA (PW powered) 757s so while not an exact match, they probably could use a few as the ex-PS fleet is stretched thin already.


N181AN and N182AN are also in the desert and have RR engines, and they're newer (1999 build) than N26123. Maybe AA would be willing to offload one for the right price?
-Doc Lightning-

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N649DL
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:37 pm

DocLightning wrote:
N649DL wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
[All frames in the desert would be sUA (PW powered) 757s so while not an exact match, they probably could use a few as the ex-PS fleet is stretched thin already.


N181AN and N182AN are also in the desert and have RR engines, and they're newer (1999 build) than N26123. Maybe AA would be willing to offload one for the right price?


Good Question, IDK but historically UA hasn't been about acquiring second hand 757s. They got 3 ex-HA 763 recently, and even that was a surprising move.

The sUA frames in the desert are likely paid off already and just lying around collecting dust. For instance IIRC N545UA or N555UA is stored out there and had Scimitar Winglets installed for testing shortly before retirement.
 
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Aesma
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:39 pm

wiss wrote:
With this kind of damage on the nose gear, is possible to tow the plane? If not, what other ways of moving it could be used?


Towing using the main gear ?
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Zidane
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:48 pm

Apart from age, factors such as number of cycles/flight hours and fleet plans should determine if fixing it is worth it. The frame is paid off, used on TATL so relatively low on cycles, and a repair is possible. It's all up to UA.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:42 pm

Acey559 wrote:
One thing I’ve noticed flying the 757 (and the 767 for that matter) is if the reversers are deployed before the nosewheel is on the ground, the nose has a tendency to want to drop pretty rapidly so one has to be ready for that. It’s not violent and nothing that can’t be overcome, but if it’s true that the FO is on IOE, he/she may have popped the reversers and not been ready to arrest the nose. Of course, I have no idea if that’s what happened here, but I can see it happening fairly easily with someone new to the jet.


Normal procedure, deploy reversers on main gear touchdown. Hold the elevator back and land the nose gear. Normal. And works. Done a lot of IOEs, not had a problem. Yet.

The Chinese did manage to write one off this way.
Last edited by arcticcruiser on Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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STT757
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:45 pm

N649DL wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
N649DL wrote:


N181AN and N182AN are also in the desert and have RR engines, and they're newer (1999 build) than N26123. Maybe AA would be willing to offload one for the right price?


Good Question, IDK but historically UA hasn't been about acquiring second hand 757s. They got 3 ex-HA 763 recently, and even that was a surprising move.

The sUA frames in the desert are likely paid off already and just lying around collecting dust. For instance IIRC N545UA or N555UA is stored out there and had Scimitar Winglets installed for testing shortly before retirement.


12 of their 21 757-300s were acquired second hand by CO from ATA.

Besides that I’m really hoping they’re able to repair this aircraft and return it to service. Might be a good aircraft to put the new livery and new cabin installation.


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arcticcruiser
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:47 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Are the TR normally deployed before the nose wheel is down?.


Yes
 
F9Animal
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:13 am

Proof that the 757 is a tank!!! Those things can take a beating. They dont make them like that anymore. :(

Glad everyone will be okay. I heard a few main wheels blew too. Anyone have any info on that?
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ltbewr
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:32 am

UA has significant maintenance facilities at EWR, if fixable it could be done there. I suspect Boeing people will be brought in to examine the damage and lead the repair if technically and economically practical.
As far I as I know, as live about 15 miles north of EWR, the weather shoudn't have been a factor. It was clear, sunny and while there were some winds, it was not significant to affect the landing.
 
trnswrld
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:41 am

Maybe some videos will surface of the landing. Really curious what the heck happened.
 
musman9853
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:51 am

Spacepope wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
LN 0123 makes it N26123 built 1997.

Hopefully she’ll be repaired, but I wouldn’t put money on it.

Especially if the pressure shell is damaged.


Ballpark 80,000 hours and 22,000 cycles on her, based off last SDR a year ago.


RIP. she'll make some great soda cans.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
Halophila
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:35 am

A friend of mine was on the flight. He said that the plane bounced after initial touchdown, then felt like turbulence, then slammed down and felt like turbulence a few times as they slowed down.

He said that the first class floor was deformed upwards and that the crew had to pry open the front door for disembarking. Sounds quite scary. But in true form, he was super happy to be upgraded for his connecting flight!
Last edited by Halophila on Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Flown on A36 310 319 320 321 332 333 343 388 350 707 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W 787 D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87 CRJ CR7 CR9 CR1000 120 135 145 175 190 146 F28 F50 F70 F100 Tristar
 
kraz911
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:45 am

Hello all,
Is it possible this crew landed hard on the mains and bounced then in the upset the nose hit first on the second landing? The right mains are flat and it looks like the port nosewheel was also flat. I agree with others and 757 drivers I know that it’s very hard to land nose first in this aircraft. The good thing is that the pax and crew weren’t injured. The bad things are the feds are probably going to pull the boxes to download the data, this one is not going to buff out and the plane will be at EWR for a while. It was very windy in Chicago yesterday, any idea what the winds were at landing?
 
kraz911
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:03 am

Hello all,
@BravoOne, that was a good call on the article you mentioned. Figure 2 looks eerily similar to the damage on the UA plane. It also mentioned that the nosegear rotated rearward and to port. It might be why this ac veered to the left...
 
JFKIceman
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:13 am

The runway is officially cleared and finally open
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:19 am

N649DL wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
N649DL wrote:


N181AN and N182AN are also in the desert and have RR engines, and they're newer (1999 build) than N26123. Maybe AA would be willing to offload one for the right price?


Good Question, IDK but historically UA hasn't been about acquiring second hand 757s. They got 3 ex-HA 763 recently, and even that was a surprising move.

The sUA frames in the desert are likely paid off already and just lying around collecting dust. For instance IIRC N545UA or N555UA is stored out there and had Scimitar Winglets installed for testing shortly before retirement.


Those don't have the higher MTOW that the pmCO B752s have. A pmUA B752 doesn't have the range of the pmCO frames...never mind the different engine type.

N555UA was sold to Juliet Romeo Aviation and reconfigured into a VIP configuration, operating alongside Juliet Romeo's 36-year old ex-BA B752. N545UA was parked in 2015, right before it would have been due for a heavy check.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:30 am

N649DL wrote:
Good Question, IDK but historically UA hasn't been about acquiring second hand 757s.


Appreciated, but historically, UA hasn't been about bashing their 757s into the ground during a period of high fleet utilization because a bunch of 73Ms are grounded. ;)
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UA444
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:30 am

reminds me of the World DC-10 accident in BWI in 2009. Similar damage on that DC-10 and 757s aren’t in high demand anymore. This is also an old plane, so it’s beer cans soon.

Maybe one of the real UA 757s can come in and replace it.
 
cschleic
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 am

BravoOne wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Since when does one need to post facts on A.net anymore?

You’ve flown the 757, haven’t you B1? I’ve heard you have to pay extra attention to de-rotate it slowly and prevent the nose wheel from hitting hard. Basically, I heard you have to land a 757 twice. Is that correct?


The 757 and 767 land just like all airplanes that I have flown. I have not flown the -300, so there maybe some unique stick and rudder skills required??? There was an article many years ago in the Boeing Airliner that talked to the derotation issue that can effect all airliners. I'll try to find it. Not sure what happened here as pictures I have seen make it appear as the MLG tires were flat?


Found it:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeroma ... ero_18.pdf


Thanks for posting. Interesting information and in your posts as well.
 
Boof02671
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:00 am

DocLightning wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
That will leave a nasty mark! The question is if that’s repairable. Did the main gear blow out to cause the nose gear to smash onto the runway? I see single runway operations when EWR reopens.


It's repairable, even if they need to cut off the nose and graft on a new one. More extreme things have been done. But the question is whether it's worth it on a 22yo airframe.
flyingclrs727 wrote:
With all the shortage of planes caused by the 737 Max groundings, UA will probably want to return this 757 to service.


That's going to figure into it, yes, but can she be repaired in a short enough timeframe to mitigate that loss of lift? There are also a bunch of 757s in storage that could be pressed into service. At least UA owns this bird, so the decision is all theirs.

A nose gear isn’t cut off and graft a new gear, no such approved procedure.

The gear is made to be removed and replaced.
 
USAirKid
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:08 am

Boof02671 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
That will leave a nasty mark! The question is if that’s repairable. Did the main gear blow out to cause the nose gear to smash onto the runway? I see single runway operations when EWR reopens.


It's repairable, even if they need to cut off the nose and graft on a new one. More extreme things have been done. But the question is whether it's worth it on a 22yo airframe.
flyingclrs727 wrote:
With all the shortage of planes caused by the 737 Max groundings, UA will probably want to return this 757 to service.


That's going to figure into it, yes, but can she be repaired in a short enough timeframe to mitigate that loss of lift? There are also a bunch of 757s in storage that could be pressed into service. At least UA owns this bird, so the decision is all theirs.

A nose gear isn’t cut off and graft a new gear, no such approved procedure.

The gear is made to be removed and replaced.


I'm pretty sure the good doctor was referring to the whole front of the airplane from a few feet behind the nose gear wheel bay or so. The damage that is the issue is the skin and structural damage that was caused, not just the damage to the nose gear assembly.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:27 am

So where is the plane currently located? Did they just use Cranes to lift it up and move it? Sounds wild.
 
codc10
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:02 am

As of about 1030pm Eastern it was still on 4R/22L, so if it moved it happened in the last few hours.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:17 am

cschleic wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
BravoOne wrote:

The 757 and 767 land just like all airplanes that I have flown. I have not flown the -300, so there maybe some unique stick and rudder skills required??? There was an article many years ago in the Boeing Airliner that talked to the derotation issue that can effect all airliners. I'll try to find it. Not sure what happened here as pictures I have seen make it appear as the MLG tires were flat?


Found it:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeroma ... ero_18.pdf


Thanks for posting. Interesting information and in your posts as well.


I second that.

A really great article. Some evolution on the nose gear.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:18 am

N649DL wrote:
reltney wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Could hydraulic failure have anything to do with it? Seems to be a common problem with the 757 and 767 series.



Well as I fly the 757/767 and our airline has about 200 of them, I never heard of any”common problem” with hydraulics. Maybe with a 2nd rate airline with poor maintenance. Heck, I never had any hydraulic issues in the 15 years I was on the plane. Hope that did not jinx me...

No hydraulic failure or blown tire combination would cause the nose to slam down.

If the pilot was hard on the brakes or set a high setting on the auto brakes and they were applied with the nose high in the air can cause a heavy nose wheel touchdown, but you would be a poor pilot to let that happen as the 757 has a powerful elevator.and you can compensate the nose down action caused by braking with the nose in the air. It’s a balance .

Delta had one of these on a 757 in FLL when a management pilot (usually the least proficient and lowest time pilots). forced the plane on the ground as he was 20kts fast. They wrinkled the fuselage and the nose wheel looked like the one on the United 757.

Cheers

I don't think I've ever seen this type of thing on a 757 where the nose gear is pushed into the body of the aircraft and cracks it.

I am reading a.net since about 20 years and I cannot remember seeing something like this.

This 757 once said to her mother „when i grow i want to become a 767“:
https://images.app.goo.gl/XYnMHV6z9L1mUELj7
;-)
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:46 am

longhauler wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Can't confirm it, but a UA pilot posted elsewhere, it was a new hire FO on his IOE. If so, thats not good for him/her.


The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.


Dont be so sure on that.

If it is a new hire, he/she is on probation, this is a high profile incident...and I am not sure if he/she is fine
 
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Spacepope
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:00 pm

DocLightning wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
That will leave a nasty mark! The question is if that’s repairable. Did the main gear blow out to cause the nose gear to smash onto the runway? I see single runway operations when EWR reopens.


It's repairable, even if they need to cut off the nose and graft on a new one. More extreme things have been done. But the question is whether it's worth it on a 22yo airframe.
flyingclrs727 wrote:
With all the shortage of planes caused by the 737 Max groundings, UA will probably want to return this 757 to service.


That's going to figure into it, yes, but can she be repaired in a short enough timeframe to mitigate that loss of lift? There are also a bunch of 757s in storage that could be pressed into service. At least UA owns this bird, so the decision is all theirs.


Seen a few up close pics on another site. There’s substantial skin wrinkling along the floor line from right behind the cockpit, under the R1 door, all the way back to near the cargo door. You’re correct anything CAN be fixed, but this would be one hell of a job. Based on utilization and normal retirements, the aircraft would maybe have 6 or so more years of life before parking.
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jetmatt777
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:06 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
longhauler wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Can't confirm it, but a UA pilot posted elsewhere, it was a new hire FO on his IOE. If so, thats not good for him/her.


The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.


Dont be so sure on that.

If it is a new hire, he/she is on probation, this is a high profile incident...and I am not sure if he/she is fine


Airlines don’t fire pilots over accidents; it creates a culture of fear where someone may be influenced to not report an incident or behave differently to avoid one and cause even more harm.

It has to be proven to be willful lack of regard for procedures or proven substance abuse to result in a firing over an accident. If anyone is to blame, it could be the training department.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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longhauler
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:13 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
longhauler wrote:

The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.


Dont be so sure on that.

If it is a new hire, he/she is on probation, this is a high profile incident...and I am not sure if he/she is fine


Airlines don’t fire pilots over accidents; it creates a culture of fear where someone may be influenced to not report an incident or behave differently to avoid one and cause even more harm.

It has to be proven to be willful lack of regard for procedures or proven substance abuse to result in a firing over an accident. If anyone is to blame, it could be the training department.


There have been many precedents set in the past in North America where an incident in an aircraft flown by an IOETC with a trainee, resulted in both being retrained and retested. The premise being that the trainee has a reasonable right to being properly trained.

If the conditions during the incident warranted, sometimes the IOETC should have been the PF.

However, what you state is correct. Namely if the trainee can be shown to be negligent then he may well be released. Some trends are best handled during probation.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:43 pm

To add, this incident pilot, if on IOE, has a training record. Was progress normal, good background and attitude, retrain and IOE. If this is one more stumbling block during initial training or past record of incidents, probation might mean termination. You can not determine the outcome by anything in this event or public information.

GF
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
longhauler wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Can't confirm it, but a UA pilot posted elsewhere, it was a new hire FO on his IOE. If so, thats not good for him/her.


The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.


Dont be so sure on that.

If it is a new hire, he/she is on probation, this is a high profile incident...and I am not sure if he/she is fine



Unless the CVR comes back as intentionally violating SOP or the FDR comes back as intentionally violating SOP this pilot will be retrained and sent back for another IOE and have a great career. The CA too.

Accidents happen, and just because you are in one doesn’t mean you will be let go. pilots get fired for gross negligence.....as they should.
 
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CALTECH
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Reports are the acft bounced 3 times and came down on the nose landing gear at least once. Crane with slings and a trailer used for towing due to stability and structural concerns. NTSB quarantine in Hangar 55. Both nose wheel says and 4 main wheel says are in quarantine also.
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Scarebus34
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:24 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
CALTECH wrote:
Reports are the acft bounced 3 times and came down on the nose landing gear at least once. Crane with slings and a trailer used for towing due to stability and structural concerns. NTSB quarantine in Hangar 55. Both nose wheel says and 4 main wheel says are in quarantine also.

Other reports are the left main tires blew on touch down which caused the oscillations and the aircraft coming down hard on the nose gear.

I guess we wait and see.
 
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KVH68
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:37 pm

If they decide to fix the plane, they will need to bring in a team from Boeing. There is not enough manpower or proper tooling to perform such work in-house.
 
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Veigar
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:40 pm

KVH68 wrote:
If they decide to fix the plane, they will need to bring in a team from Boeing. There is not enough manpower or proper tooling to perform such work in-house.


They fixed the BA 777 that burned up in LAS, which looked like a write off IMO. I think this can be done if UA wants it to be.
 
77H
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:35 pm

Veigar wrote:
KVH68 wrote:
If they decide to fix the plane, they will need to bring in a team from Boeing. There is not enough manpower or proper tooling to perform such work in-house.


They fixed the BA 777 that burned up in LAS, which looked like a write off IMO. I think this can be done if UA wants it to be.


Pardon my ignorance here but don’t airlines have insurance for things like this ? Wouldn’t UA or any other airline with a damaged plane simply claim ?

77H
 
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KVH68
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:41 pm

I was told United is self insured.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Its the insurance company which will make the call on repair. If it costs more to repair than the payment schedule (based on age/cycles/hours) then the hull will be paid off and scrapped by the insurance carrier.

UA could always chose to NOT make a claim and repair the aircraft but I don't see that happening.
 
codc10
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:59 pm

KVH68 wrote:
I was told United is self insured.


I believe UAL hull insurance lead is Global Aerospace but there may be a self-insured retention of a certain amount that UA is responsible for before the policy kicks in (like a deductible).
 
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Erau82
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:10 pm

The 757 is designed so that when the NLG is overloaded the wheel well fails in a structured manner to keep the NLG from departing and damaging the engines/wings. The same design as the 747. There are no fuse pins in the NLG. Had this happen in SJO on an Eastern 757 in the 80's. PM took control of the a/c at rotation due to hearing a bang - thought a NLG tire failed but it was a T1 blade failure on #1 engine. Over-rotated the aborted landing as PM thought the MLG was on the ground - turned out the plane was 15 feet AGL and it landed on the NLG. Failed the wheel well structure and pushed it upwards about 4" inches into the cockpit and fwd galley. A/C was repaired but it was a young bird. The only interesting part of the investigation was that the #1 generator main feed cables shorted out under the FA seat at the L1 door which we heard was quite a fireworks show.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:39 pm

UA444 wrote:
reminds me of the World DC-10 accident in BWI in 2009. Similar damage on that DC-10 and 757s aren’t in high demand anymore. This is also an old plane, so it’s beer cans soon.

Maybe one of the real UA 757s can come in and replace it.

Real UA 757's?
 
BravoOne
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Re: What’s the emergency at EWR?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:43 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
longhauler wrote:

The trainee will be fine.

However, the Training Captain might fall under some scrutiny. Especially as I have heard (anecdotally only) that this is a gotcha with the 757 under some conditions.


Dont be so sure on that.

If it is a new hire, he/she is on probation, this is a high profile incident...and I am not sure if he/she is fine


Airlines don’t fire pilots over accidents; it creates a culture of fear where someone may be influenced to not report an incident or behave differently to avoid one and cause even more harm.

It has to be proven to be willful lack of regard for procedures or proven substance abuse to result in a firing over an accident. If anyone is to blame, it could be the training department.


Not completely true. I believe FedEx did terminate pilots after an accident. (MD11 EWR). On other hand Flying Tigers did not terminate any of the crew on a CL44 accident at Navy Norfolk after a hard landing that casued the wing to separate at the fuselage. Just depends on any number of factors that we would not be privy to.
 
ikramerica
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Re: United 757-200 hard landing at EWR

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:49 pm

For those wondering where UA will get a proper 757 for replacement if write off, they don’t need one. Could be they can increase 767 use, delay airframe retirement, take up non-international slack with other narrow bodies, etc.
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