iberiadc852
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In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:56 pm

Once the A380 and Boeing 747-8 seem to be doomed, leaving the High-Medium capacity-Long range segment for the 787-777-A350 families, and being the A320-NEO and the 737-MAX (hopefully) the way to go in the Low-Medium capacity and range for at least the next decade, I feel the next biggest field of aviation interest and news is the next Boeing797 and maybe the supposed Airbus answer to that.

But following the news about it, I keep hearing about NMA, MOM, NSA, etc. as if it were a whole new aircraft segment. However, when I see the supposed features of the model, I see it is previewed for about 240-270 passengers and a range of 5000 miles aproximmately, quite matching the 767 family performances.

So, in that regard, is the 797 really pretended to be a New Segment or just a 767-200/300 replacement? In that case, why not to name it 767-X (like the new 777), or NG?, (like the 737)
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ikolkyo
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:04 pm

Because it would have no design elements related to the 767 so why call it a 767? It’s a clean sheet aircraft. That’s like calling a hypothetical NSA a 737 variant just because it’s in that market segment.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:14 pm

Mostly because it will be a much lighter plane than the 767. The real battle, I suspect, will how short the legs are which will eat into the 737/320 niches.
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lightsaber
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:21 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Mostly because it will be a much lighter plane than the 767. The real battle, I suspect, will how short the legs are which will eat into the 737/320 niches.

The improved short range economics will be key. Greater engine and airframe cycle lives between overhauls, shorter turn times (e.g., faster fueling, lav, and luggage service).

I hope the plane is launched as I see a niche.

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iberiadc852
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:30 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Because it would have no design elements related to the 767 so why call it a 767? It’s a clean sheet aircraft. That’s like calling a hypothetical NSA a 737 variant just because it’s in that market segment.


Ok, but isn't the 777-X a clean sheet aircraft?. I thought it really was.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Mostly because it will be a much lighter plane than the 767. The real battle, I suspect, will how short the legs are which will eat into the 737/320 niches.


So then, the 797 would be an aircraft with more or less the 767 capacity and range, but which economics could steal a piece of the lower segment?
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ikolkyo
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:32 pm

iberiadc852 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Because it would have no design elements related to the 767 so why call it a 767? It’s a clean sheet aircraft. That’s like calling a hypothetical NSA a 737 variant just because it’s in that market segment.


Ok, but isn't the 777-X a clean sheet aircraft?. I thought it really was.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Mostly because it will be a much lighter plane than the 767. The real battle, I suspect, will how short the legs are which will eat into the 737/320 niches.


So then, the 797 would be an aircraft with more or less the 767 capacity and range, but which economics could steal a piece of the lower segment?

What? 777X Shares the same fuselage as the current 777s. It’s just stretched and shrinked to different lengths with a new wing and engines.
 
iberiadc852
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:53 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
iberiadc852 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Because it would have no design elements related to the 767 so why call it a 767? It’s a clean sheet aircraft. That’s like calling a hypothetical NSA a 737 variant just because it’s in that market segment.


Ok, but isn't the 777-X a clean sheet aircraft?. I thought it really was.


What? 777X Shares the same fuselage as the current 777s. It’s just stretched and shrinked to different lengths with a new wing and engines.


I saw the tail is also new, and I read the cabin was a little wider, but it seems the outside is the same section, so maybe it's just the isolation. Thanks.
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Mboyle1988
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:24 pm

I thought this was more of a 757 replacement than 767? Wasn’t the 787 the 767 replacement?
 
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DLHAM
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:53 pm

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I thought this was more of a 757 replacement than 767? Wasn’t the 787 the 767 replacement?


The 787 is bigger than the 767 and higher MTOW and much more range, different market.
There is no real 1:1 767 replacement. The 787-3 would have matched that at least rudimentary.
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rbavfan
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:28 am

ikolkyo wrote:
iberiadc852 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Because it would have no design elements related to the 767 so why call it a 767? It’s a clean sheet aircraft. That’s like calling a hypothetical NSA a 737 variant just because it’s in that market segment.


Ok, but isn't the 777-X a clean sheet aircraft?. I thought it really was.

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Mostly because it will be a much lighter plane than the 767. The real battle, I suspect, will how short the legs are which will eat into the 737/320 niches.


So then, the 797 would be an aircraft with more or less the 767 capacity and range, but which economics could steal a piece of the lower segment?

What? 777X Shares the same fuselage as the current 777s. It’s just stretched and shrinked to different lengths with a new wing and engines.


It's about 55% clean sheet.
 
rbavfan
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:29 am

Mboyle1988 wrote:
I thought this was more of a 757 replacement than 767? Wasn’t the 787 the 767 replacement?


Yes it was. Before they decided 3-3-3 vs the original 2-4-2 layout squish. Claiming good Isle width. What they dod not say was the armrest lost about a half inch sac to make it fit. So no It's not really the same space per seat as the old 737's were.
 
jfk777
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:55 am

The mission of the 797 is 8 to 10 hour flight. The 787, 777 and A350 have been made to go 8,000 miles, that requires lots of extra weight to carry heavy fuel for flights routinely 15 hours long. The 797 is what the 767 started 40 years ago, a lighter jet for flights medium distance flights. The North American east coast and midwest to Europe is the mission here. JFK, IAD, ORD & Miami to Argentina, Brazil and Chile.

This have been referred to as the " Emiratization" of planes, Boeing designs a 777-9 for EK long flights out of hot Dubai. Many 777-9 airlines will never need the power for 15 hour flights out of hot Dubai to LAX. The 797 will be bigger then A321neo LR but smaller than a 787, all routes a 321 can do should be 797 territory. Let hope Boeing makes a decision and launches before the 2020 election.
 
Thunderbolt500
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:23 am

Hopefully it won't be a problem plane like the 737 max
 
musman9853
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:49 am

iberiadc852 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
iberiadc852 wrote:

Ok, but isn't the 777-X a clean sheet aircraft?. I thought it really was.


What? 777X Shares the same fuselage as the current 777s. It’s just stretched and shrinked to different lengths with a new wing and engines.


I saw the tail is also new, and I read the cabin was a little wider, but it seems the outside is the same section, so maybe it's just the isolation. Thanks.


iirc they shaved a bit off the fuselage to make it a bit thinner and wider but overall it's still basically the same dimensions. they are using al-li now though
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speedbird52
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Re: In which regard is the 797 more than a 767 replacement?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:50 am

DLHAM wrote:
Mboyle1988 wrote:
I thought this was more of a 757 replacement than 767? Wasn’t the 787 the 767 replacement?


The 787 is bigger than the 767 and higher MTOW and much more range, different market.
There is no real 1:1 767 replacement. The 787-3 would have matched that at least rudimentary.

I am 99% sure Boeing marketing material in the late 2000s advertised the 787 as the middle of the market airplane, and as the 767 replacement

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