B1168
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Posts: 501
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Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:29 pm

As far as I know, several airlines from Middle East and Africa offer service to Bangkok and extend it to other destinations, including KQ,ET,GF,EK,RJ,etc. BR even have a multitude of departures to Europe! I really wonder why airlines chose BKK over any other and why Thailand authorities authorizes that many of them (despite against Thai Airways for example).
 
xwb777
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:50 pm

Open Skies..
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:51 pm

Because Thailand has an open skies policy.

Next.

Michael
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:59 pm

You also have to remember tourism is a huge part of Thailands GDP.
They need to keep the maximum amount of flights coming in at any price
even if it means propping up Thai Airways. Just look at Bangkok. Those
50 story towers with roof top bars have to be filled some how for the
elite to get their investments back and at street level all those restaurants
need to be filled. They need volume to keep it going. Tag on flights are a great
way to do that. you stop over in BKK, or.... you give the carrier 5th freedom rights
and the sector that would have gone out a 3rd empty anyway fills empty last min
hotels. It's no friend to TG but for the country over all there's method in their
madness.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:11 am

Actually, the best question would be - why did the 5th freedom flights in BKK remain after airlines started introducing direct flights.

Don't forget, a lot of those 5th freedom rights were remnants of the days when multi-stop flights were the norm.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:16 am

B1168 wrote:
As far as I know, several airlines from Middle East and Africa offer service to Bangkok and extend it to other destinations, including KQ,ET,GF,EK,RJ,etc. BR even have a multitude of departures to Europe! I really wonder why airlines chose BKK over any other and why Thailand authorities authorizes that many of them (despite against Thai Airways for example).

GF doesn't fly 5th freedom from BKK + MS also flies BKK-HKG once a week as a 5th freedom.

Lufthansa summed up the point perfectly regarding 5th freedom at BKK except i'm interested in also seeing what Open Skies treaties Thailand has in place with other countries regarding 5th freedom rights.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:46 am

Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:39 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.

Thai government is smart in this regard - popping more flights are far more beneficial for the country as a whole.

DMK only reopened not too long ago for LCC flights IIRC,so it's kinda natural for a lot of carriers to stay at BKK.

Michael
 
patrickw421
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:40 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.


DMK is a LCC hub, all airlines operating at DMK except Malindo Air is a LCC so of course there aren't any 5th freedom flights. Plus DMK is closer to city center than BKK so I doubt even TG would prefer forcing airlines with 5th freedom flights to move back to DMK and not flying out from BKK.
 
B1168
Topic Author
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:23 am

I never know Thailand is completely open-sky. That’s something impressive to know!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:43 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.

Because then you run into trouble with your open skies agreements, as France found out back in the day.

Then again, Japan seems able to get away with imposing all sorts of artificial restrictions on specific airport use/entry, while still claiming "open skies" with some countries..... so who knows.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
lawair
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:00 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.


I don't think there's anything legally prohibiting fifth freedom flights from operating at DMK. Scoot right now operates fifth freedom to Japan from DMK, alongside NokScoot, which is Thai.

Just about all other fifth freedom flying in Bangkok is performed by full service carriers, which prefer the amenities at BKK.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:24 am

patrickw421 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.


DMK is a LCC hub, all airlines operating at DMK except Malindo Air is a LCC so of course there aren't any 5th freedom flights. Plus DMK is closer to city center than BKK so I doubt even TG would prefer forcing airlines with 5th freedom flights to move back to DMK and not flying out from BKK.


DMK has a few 5th freedom flights from Scoot
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:55 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.

If the 5th freedom flights were at DMK, TG would have a harder time. DMK is closer to the city than BKK is.

Not that DMK will be able to deal with the additional traffic though. The international terminal is overcrowded at times.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:17 am

Also TG earns some nice royalty $$$ from these fifth freedom tags.
 
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777Jet
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:22 am

Lufthansa wrote:
You also have to remember tourism is a huge part of Thailands GDP.


Indeed. Bangkok has topped the list of world's most visited cities for a few years now (2016, 2017, 2018 IIRC)...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
bhxalex
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:25 am

jeffrey0032j wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.

If the 5th freedom flights were at DMK, TG would have a harder time. DMK is closer to the city than BKK is.

Not that DMK will be able to deal with the additional traffic though. The international terminal is overcrowded at times.



BKK v DMK is like comparing night and day. One is modern, spacious and not overcrowded (bar immigration), the other almost hasn't changed one bit in donkeys year. No airline offering proper J or C will use DMK by choice in it's current state.
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Why does BKK have so many 5th freedom flights?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:40 pm

bhxalex wrote:
jeffrey0032j wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Wonder why is BKK the one with the 5th freedom flights and not DMK.
One would suppose if the Thai government wants to somehow protect TG, the 5th freedom would be limited to flights operating at the airport not hub of TG.

If the 5th freedom flights were at DMK, TG would have a harder time. DMK is closer to the city than BKK is.

Not that DMK will be able to deal with the additional traffic though. The international terminal is overcrowded at times.



BKK v DMK is like comparing night and day. One is modern, spacious and not overcrowded (bar immigration), the other almost hasn't changed one bit in donkeys year. No airline offering proper J or C will use DMK by choice in it's current state.

Adding on to DMK, comparing between Terminal 1(International) and Terminal 2 (Domestic) is like comparing between night and day, because:
Terminal 1: Dirty 1990s toilets , abandoned lounges left over from the days it was a hub for TG, ancient interior fittings, certain gates with no air-conditioning, dirty windows and the concourses don't have windows..
Terminal 2: Departure hall has brand new interior fittings, well maintained, but still retains some bad features of Terminal 1 ie. dirty windows and windowless concourses.
Also, some LCCs actually don't even use DMK and instead use BKK, for example, 5J,9C,DY,EW,6E etc.

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