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mjoelnir
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Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:49 am

Emirates negotiations may deal blow to key Boeing 777X order

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ller-787s/

Emirates is thinking about deferring part of the 777X order, or downsizing it to 787, most likely 787-9.

quote: Giant Gulf airline Emirates, the carrier with the world’s largest widebody aircraft fleet and the clout to go with it, is in negotiations with Boeing that could substantially defer part of its massive order for 150 Boeing 777X jets and perhaps substitute smaller 787 airplanes for some portion of the order.

and Clark said the 787-10 letter of intent not only was never finalized but has now lapsed and “has no validity.”
Still, this lapsed 787 deal is now is at the center of renegotiations that involve both the 787 and the 777X contract.


and Clark also strongly suggested that because the Airbus A330-900neos he has committed to are very similar in size and performance to the 787-10, he’s likely to also change out the Dreamliner model he wants from Boeing and instead opt for the smaller 787-9.
 
Ugly51
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:00 am

If this is true in anyway it's a real kick in the balls for BA. The 777X order for Emirates was the largest order on the books.
This might also be a negotiating tactic. Clark has been known to play hardball with both BA and Airbus. He has a history of playing them off against each other to get the result he wants.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:07 am

It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...
Last edited by Erebus on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:09 am

Everyone here has been saying for a couple of years that Emirates had too many aircraft, and too many orders, so how is this surprising ?

What's good for the A380, is good for the 777X.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:14 am

It could be a complete change of the business model, getting away from the big frames, ordering smaller ones. The logical next move after reducing the A380 order, replacing part of the 777X with 787-9. I would assume the greatest danger is to the 777-8.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:16 am

Aesma wrote:
Everyone here has been saying for a couple of years that Emirates had too many aircraft, and too many orders, so how is this surprising ?

What's good for the A380, is good for the 777X.

The ME3 are struggling. IST and ADD realized they had a good idea and have been working to carve out their own niches.

Now for India to build a mega airport at a high O&D city without the long haul crippling fuel taxes and a great transfer experience (includes airport design).

I do not understand some of the extreamism. There will be an EK in a decade. They simply need to downsize for their market size to get the O&D up at 50%+. QR and EY have more to worry about as Dubai's O&D is substantially larger... Now to find a link...

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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:17 am

Ugly51 wrote:
If this is true in anyway it's a real kick in the balls for BA. The 777X order for Emirates was the largest order on the books.
This might also be a negotiating tactic. Clark has been known to play hardball with both BA and Airbus. He has a history of playing them off against each other to get the result he wants.


I feel he's played them off too much and lost his way with them, at least with Airbus to some extent.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:20 am

Aesma wrote:
Everyone here has been saying for a couple of years that Emirates had too many aircraft, and too many orders, so how is this surprising ?

What's good for the A380, is good for the 777X.


When EK cancelled the A380, most opinions here read that they would need more 777Xs to replace those A380s in use on top of the 77Ws.
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:28 am

they built this plane for ek

play hardball back, it's not like he has an alternative in the -9 size class
 
jayunited
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:29 am

I think Tim Clark is finally coming to his senses and realizing smaller widebodies offer him more flexibility to better align capacity to meet demand. I still believe EK will be one of the largest operators of the the 77X model but they don't need 150 77X frames.
If people though EK was dangerous with just A380's and 777s just think of how dangerous they will be with mid-size widebodies like the A330-900NEOs, A350s, and 789s those aircraft will allow them open up markets they never would have considers with an A380 or a 77X because those aircraft are to large.
 
mintxwb
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:30 am

maybe 777-9 is too much a plane, even for EK. Getting more 789 seems to be a wise decision.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:31 am

I couldn't find a link of the transfer traffer.

Abu Dhabi has 26.5 million passengers and Doha about 35 million. So the other ME2 just are not in the same league.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/dest ... ravel-hub/

Going from memory, Dubai had the highest fraction O&D, does anyone have a link for DXB, DOH, AUH, IST, and ADD O&D fractions?

Lightsaber
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Etheereal
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:33 am

That was expected after they had to renegotiate the terms to cancel the 380s. The 789 is still a great plane, though

Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

That was said before the 380 cancel orders.
JetBuddy wrote:
"737 slides off the runway" is the new "Florida man"..

:lol:
 
Ugly51
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:36 am

A new Business model with Dubai World Centre in the equation? Lots more room for more aircraft
This is definitely Ian interesting turn in events if true.
 
mintxwb
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:39 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Clark also strongly suggested that because the Airbus A330-900neos he has committed to are very similar in size and performance to the 787-10, he’s likely to also change out the Dreamliner model he wants from Boeing and instead opt for the smaller 787-9.


787-10 is more of a 12-hour plane now especially if the rumored 260t comes true. They may want to keep some 781 because it doesn't overlap 339 that much?
 
musman9853
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:43 am

this could deal a devastating blow to the 777x. a lot of its capabilities were designed for the ME3, and if they're all backing out...
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
speedbird52
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:43 am

It boggles my mind that more people are flying yet airlines are on a trend to offer less seats per route. I genuinely do not understand the economics of it. You can only add so much frequency. And while small efficient planes open up new routes, well established routes will continue to grow. There must be some logic to it...
 
9Patch
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:48 am

Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order:
Clark said he’s discussing with Boeing “a combination of the 150 777Xs and the 40 787s, essentially looking to keep the numbers in place, but substituting and spacing them out over a longer timeline.

EK may cancel a portion of the order:
An aviation industry executive said a more drastic outcome is possible, with a portion of the firm 777X order either canceled or pushed out so far into the future it’s effectively the same thing.

The aviation industry executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity to protect his business relationship with Boeing, described a worse outcome for Boeing, whereby it gets to firm up the order for 40 Dreamliners only by cutting the 777X order by an equivalent dollar amount. That would mean 30 to 35 cancellations out of the original 150 airplanes.
Last edited by 9Patch on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
9Patch
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:49 am

musman9853 wrote:
this could deal a devastating blow to the 777x.

You fervently wish so.
 
smartplane
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:50 am

Search for past posts / posters comments regarding EK cancellation of A350. EK order of 777X. EK option to purchase 787. EK cancellation of A380. EK order of A330NEO/350.

Reality check one. The EK 777X order consists of tranches, only 1 of which is unconditional, and the balance conditional or options. Same for the A330NEO and A350.

Reality check two. If OEM's keep increasing the capability of current models, it erodes the attractiveness and orders for aircraft not yet even flying or certified.

Reality check three. If OEM's keep ramping up production / lowering manufacturing costs of smaller models, they become more attractive, and lower volume models less attractive.

Reality check four. Niche models are high risk, as Airbus found with the A380 and Boeing has found with the 777X.

Reality check five. Boeing has irreversibly harmed certification, something that will impact on X, despite protests to the contrary.

Reality check six. The 787 management team had a growth plan, with a bigger wing and longer fuselage. Launching the X froze those developments (though they will have been progressing with/without full Board approval).

Reality check seven. Airbus have a growth plan for the A350, A330 and A320 family. Slow A350 growth progress is constraining the two smaller models.

Reality check eight. We live in more conservative times. CEO's now prefer 'hard' performance guarantees on 'real' air frames and engines, rather than 'soft' on 'paper' planes (and in reality, so do the CEO's at aircraft and engine OEM's).

Reality check nine. The X family is under-priced. Launch prices have been even further under-priced. Just about every order (conditional and unconditional) is a Board approved launch price. The demise of the A380 was seen as the bright light on the horizon, allowing Boeing to add USD30-40m a unit. But even that twinkles on for another 2-3 years, instead of the hoped for almost immediate cancellation.

Reality check ten. Some fast, decisive action required at Boeing HQ. Boeing have already played bridesmaid when it comes to acquiring the best sub-737/A320 family. GE is for sale. Are they going to be passive or proactive? Can they afford to be proactive when the primary business strategy seems to be share price growth instead of brand protection, development and growth?

Boeing fanboys will be insulting EK, and Airbus the opposite. But pause Airbus fans, your brand is just as exposed.

This is business. This is very big business. If the X isn't the right aircraft, or the quantity isn't right, or Boeing has moved the goalposts by re-pricing the 787, then the business case for the X has changed, not only for EK, but all X customers, and all customers of A & B, because price expectations are being lowered, and capability expectations raised.
Last edited by smartplane on Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
musman9853
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:53 am

9Patch wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
this could deal a devastating blow to the 777x.

You fervently wish so.


nah, I'm a big fan of the frame. but when the customer that's ordered half the fleet starts getting cold feet, the already shaky order book could be hit hard.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
9Patch
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:03 am

smartplane wrote:
Reality check five. Boeing has irreversibly harmed certification, something that will impact on X, despite protests to the contrary.

Won't more stringent certification standards affect everyone, Airbus included?
 
behramjee
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 am

Clark said that “once we get these smaller aircraft in, like the A330neo and the 787-9, we’ll be able to grow the network significantly again,” opening routes that were too small for the much bigger Airbus A380s and Boeing 777-300ERs that make up the current fleet.

Notice he clearly mentions now the B789 being gotten ; )

From just having A380/777 to 380/777/350/330/787 :eye roll:
Last edited by behramjee on Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:09 am

mintxwb wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Clark also strongly suggested that because the Airbus A330-900neos he has committed to are very similar in size and performance to the 787-10, he’s likely to also change out the Dreamliner model he wants from Boeing and instead opt for the smaller 787-9.


787-10 is more of a 12-hour plane now especially if the rumored 260t comes true. They may want to keep some 781 because it doesn't overlap 339 that much?


That was the Seattle Times quoting Tim Clark. He talked about taking the 787-9 instead of the 787-10.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:23 am

9Patch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Reality check five. Boeing has irreversibly harmed certification, something that will impact on X, despite protests to the contrary.

Won't more stringent certification standards affect everyone, Airbus included?


We don't have too much word that the EASA was allowing Airbus to self certify as much as the FAA allowed Boeing to do. The FAA has been probably more underfunded then the EASA, which has lead to some of these issues.

It will be interesting to see what happens from now with the 777-X program as if Emirates lower their order, and drop a few orders for the 8, then I could even see the 8 being delayed or dropped completely due to the lack of demand.
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:31 am

ek was, repeat was in the grab traffic by any means business

now they're having to look at revenue and profits.

I think ultimately that they have to have some 777xs just because of the cargo hauling they want.

the 787 series is frighteningly good at moving passengers but not so much at cargo. the 350 does a lot more payload but the price on that plane seems high and airbus is no longer willing to chase share so don't expect a discount
that leaves the 777. there's no other option

i'm interested to see the 35k with 10 across which has consistently been derided around here as akin to being waterboarded while set on fire. ek never cared much how cramped Y was. but the extra seats cut into underfloor payload

the 777x I think Is always around as if you have to haul big freight loads consistnely
 
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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:44 am

9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order


Yes. Nor did I.
 
YellowJ
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:44 am

I've seen substituted and deferred..but not cancel. I'm sure Boeing will still happily place 120X and 787's in EK fleet, rather than nothing at all.

The glaring thing to me is EK has A339's on order but is looking to the B789 rather than the A388 :confused:

Doesn't bode well for that plane at all :embarrassed2:
 
Bricktop
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:03 am

YellowJ wrote:
I've seen substituted and deferred..but not cancel. I'm sure Boeing will still happily place 120X and 787's in EK fleet, rather than nothing at all.

The glaring thing to me is EK has A339's on order but is looking to the B789 rather than the A388 :confused:

Doesn't bode well for that plane at all :embarrassed2:

You mean A338, right? If so, I don't think it affects the A338 at all. If there was any so-called battle between the B789 and the A338 it was the biggest massacre since Little Big Horn.

EK killed the A388 and got A350s and A339s as the quid pro quo. If it swaps out some B77Xs for some B787s, or defers some it's not a great deal fror BCA no matter how it's spun. But death knell for the program? Only to Airbus fanboys ears.
 
justloveplanes
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:03 am

777x is going to be fine. I don't think GE's gushing comments about the GE9x testing at altitude going "extremely well" are fluff. I am sure STC would love 150 9X, flat doesn't need them, but there will be others.
 
Ugly51
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:05 am

I think the problem for Boeing will be the B778. If its a downsize option the B789 fits the bill. The Boeing 78K is surplus. The A359/K covers all the bases.
 
9Patch
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:07 am

Pcoder wrote:
9Patch wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Reality check five. Boeing has irreversibly harmed certification, something that will impact on X, despite protests to the contrary.

Won't more stringent certification standards affect everyone, Airbus included?


We don't have too much word that the EASA was allowing Airbus to self certify as much as the FAA allowed Boeing to do. The FAA has been probably more underfunded then the EASA, which has lead to some of these issues.

It will be interesting to see what happens from now with the 777-X program as if Emirates lower their order, and drop a few orders for the 8, then I could even see the 8 being delayed or dropped completely due to the lack of demand.

If EASA promulgates more stringent certification standards they will have to apply across the board to all aircraft manufactures. It doesn't matter if EASA was allowing Airbus to self-certify. Whatever the new rules are will apply to everyone.
 
9Patch
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:17 am

Erebus wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order


Yes. Nor did I.

Then what are you saying?
What is the interesting turn of events?
 
ITSTours
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:25 am

9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order


Yes. Nor did I.

Then what are you saying?
What is the interesting turn of events?


Calm down, s/he just got the popcorn.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:38 am

9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order


Yes. Nor did I.

Then what are you saying?
What is the interesting turn of events?


It is in the thread title...
 
klkla
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:40 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Emirates negotiations may deal blow to key Boeing 777X order

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ller-787s/



and Clark said the 787-10 letter of intent not only was never finalized but has now lapsed and “has no validity.”
Still, this lapsed 787 deal is now is at the center of renegotiations that involve both the 787 and the 777X contract.




The article also said this, "Clark said he expects to finalize the separate widebody jet deals with Airbus and with Boeing soon and certainly in time for this year's Dubai Air Show in November."

They didn't finalize the Airbus deal yet, either?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:48 am

9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Clark doesn't say he's cancelling the order


Yes. Nor did I.

Then what are you saying?
What is the interesting turn of events?


He said people assumed EK would never cancel 777Xs, nothing about canceling the whole order. Probably an interesting turn of events that EK May reduce the order.

So we are now looking at possibly an A380/777/787/350/339 fleet while currently it’s just A380/777, TBH I’m not sure I can see that although they could have common type ratings on the 350/339 and 777/787, what can the, the A350 or 789 could do ULH should the 778 not be built, I’m not sure I would see a need for both 787/350.

A380, trunk routes very high capacity

779, routes that currently have an A380 that may not need it, upgauge higher capacity 77W routes.

77W, moved to shorter routes over time replaced by 779/350 on longer ones.

359,could be used ULH replacing 77L, second configuration standard long haul up to 12-13hrs, maybe some 35K depending on range ULH needs

339, short medium haul workhorse up to 8 hrs
 
grbauc
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:53 am

NO where did I read that there canceling there 777X order rather adjusting it maybe, with 789 rather then the 10's...

"quote: Giant Gulf airline Emirates, the carrier with the world’s largest widebody aircraft fleet and the clout to go with it, is in negotiations with Boeing that could substantially defer part of its massive order for 150 Boeing 777X jets and perhaps substitute smaller 787 airplanes for some portion of the order."

How are many of you reading there canceling there 777X order?

" It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events..."
"this could deal a devastating blow to the 777x. a lot of its capabilities were designed for the ME3, and if they're all backing out..."
"nah, I'm a big fan of the frame. but when the customer that's ordered half the fleet starts getting cold feet, the already shaky order book could be hit hard."

Negotiations For 789 Using there 777X strong position to get the deal they want. I can see them ordering another 100 777X a few years down the line.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:05 am

If the B777X order to be reduced, Emirates will most probably drop the 35 -8X it have on order.
 
xwb777
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:11 am

The last paragraph in the article states that the order won't change and will stay at 150 B777X and 40 B787.
 
xwb565
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:12 am

Clark also referring to the max grounding for flydubai. This appears a full on contract renegotiation.
 
justloveplanes
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:14 am

STC said 3 things in the article of importance.

A) Overall numbers the same, 150 and 40
B) Might swap 78K for 789
C) This realignment driven by the change to the A380 program.

I think the most likely outcome is just what he says. 78K order was compromised because he has A350's coming, so he's moving pieces and timelines around. But he * explicitly * says he isn't cancelling anything.
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:15 am

Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

Emirates has a history of signing MoUs for aircraft and not firming them, as well as canceling firm orders, so I don't think any Emirates order, based on its history and going into its future, can be deemed "safe" until the aircraft are actually delivered. A couple of orders from the past:
    :arrow: Nov 2003: EK ordered 2x A340-500s, 18x A340-600s, and 21 A380-800s. The A340-600s were canceled in Oct 2006.
    :arrow: Nov 2007: EK ordered 50x A350-900s and 20x A350-1000s. These were canceled sometime before Jun 2014, when Airbus confirmed it.
    :arrow: Jul 2008: EK ordered 30x Airbus A350-1000s and 30x A330-300s. The airline let the MoU expire and confirmed it in Jun 2010.
    :arrow: Of course, we know about the recent cancellation of the 39 A380s.
So, the long-held assumption that EK will never cancel its 777x order does not seem grounded in reality, given the airline's past actions.
 
behramjee
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:16 am

xwb777 wrote:
If the B777X order to be reduced, Emirates will most probably drop the 35 -8X it have on order.


They need the B778X for certain LATAM nonstop flights + AKL (once the A380s leave).

But overall I agree with you that 35 B778Xs might get exchanged for 20 B778s + 20 B789s. I also foresee 20 B779s being exchanged for 30 B789s as that is the right thing to do.
 
YellowJ
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:21 am

Bricktop wrote:
YellowJ wrote:
I've seen substituted and deferred..but not cancel. I'm sure Boeing will still happily place 120X and 787's in EK fleet, rather than nothing at all.

The glaring thing to me is EK has A339's on order but is looking to the B789 rather than the A388 :confused:

Doesn't bode well for that plane at all :embarrassed2:

You mean A338, right? If so, I don't think it affects the A338 at all. If there was any so-called battle between the B789 and the A338 it was the biggest massacre since Little Big Horn.

EK killed the A388 and got A350s and A339s as the quid pro quo. If it swaps out some B77Xs for some B787s, or defers some it's not a great deal fror BCA no matter how it's spun. But death knell for the program? Only to Airbus fanboys ears.


I did mean the A338, my mistake.

I'm saying it's extremely odd that Tim seems to be insisting on the B789, when he could have gone for the smaller sister to a frame he has on order (A339). Even with the lapsed 787-10 LOI, it's clear he still prefers the 787. It makes one wonder if he wasn't forced to redistribute his deposits with Airbus, there undoubtedly would not have been a A330 order or even a round 2 of the A350.
 
sibibom
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:23 am

I said it earlier and say it again, once A380 is gone, EK's business model based on scale would collapse. EK depends on A380 to fill B777 and vice versa. Now the question is how will find slots? DXB is completely full. Is DWC actually happening? There is no word on that....
 
worldranger
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:38 am

Competition and DXB slot constraints caught up with EK. Now it appears they are in a constant state of flux trying to adjust future capacity to market conditions. The problem is the market changes quicker than a typical order timeline.

That said the 789 is a good fit. 359, 338, 778 & 789 - not so sure, watch that space.

The 321(X)LR makes a lot of sense for FZ but unless DWC happens - no room.

Catch22 - Only way DWC happens is with money down the SZ Rd. Too many egos, not enough logic.
Last edited by worldranger on Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:42 am

behramjee wrote:
Clark said that “once we get these smaller aircraft in, like the A330neo and the 787-9, we’ll be able to grow the network significantly again,” opening routes that were too small for the much bigger Airbus A380s and Boeing 777-300ERs that make up the current fleet.

This is one of the biggest "gee, no kidding dude?!" moments in the industry, and has been for a long time...

...but the immediate question that comes to mind is: with what slots are you going to do this?

The ones that don't exist at DXB? Or is this after the move to DWC that they refuse to give a comprehensive timeline for, and where the authorities are likely in a mind financing the expansion thereof?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Erebus
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:45 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
9Patch wrote:
Erebus wrote:

Yes. Nor did I.

Then what are you saying?
What is the interesting turn of events?


He said people assumed EK would never cancel 777Xs, nothing about canceling the whole order. Probably an interesting turn of events that EK May reduce the order.


:checkmark:

ZK-NBT wrote:
So we are now looking at possibly an A380/777/787/350/339 fleet while currently it’s just A380/777, TBH I’m not sure I can see that although they could have common type ratings on the 350/339 and 777/787, what can the, the A350 or 789 could do ULH should the 778 not be built, I’m not sure I would see a need for both 787/350.


It is possible to see them both. From my point of view, EK arrived at this position by circumstance, not choice. They over-committed to the A380/777X way too much and now realise that their fleet strategy of using oversized metal is not going to pan out. So they are looking at exchanging them for smaller models. They could go ahead and stick to one manufacturer but they have to choose between incurring cancellation penalties and any extra costs associated with redundant fleet types. I have always wanted to ask, for a large airline like EK who constantly keep harping about crew shortages, would it be better for them to be able to source from single OEM pool or a mixed pool?

grbauc wrote:
NO where did I read that there canceling there 777X order rather adjusting it maybe, with 789 rather then the 10's...

How are many of you reading there canceling there 777X order?

" It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events..."


cancel 777Xs != cancel 777X order

Both Boeing and Airbus book cancellations but not necessarily the entire order.
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3488
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Re: Emirates renegotiating 777X order

Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:11 am

NeBaNi wrote:
Erebus wrote:
It was long assumed by most here that EK will never cancel 777Xs. Interesting turn of events...

Emirates has a history of signing MoUs for aircraft and not firming them, as well as canceling firm orders, so I don't think any Emirates order, based on its history and going into its future, can be deemed "safe" until the aircraft are actually delivered. A couple of orders from the past:
    :arrow: Nov 2003: EK ordered 2x A340-500s, 18x A340-600s, and 21 A380-800s. The A340-600s were canceled in Oct 2006.
    :arrow: Nov 2007: EK ordered 50x A350-900s and 20x A350-1000s. These were canceled sometime before Jun 2014, when Airbus confirmed it.
    :arrow: Jul 2008: EK ordered 30x Airbus A350-1000s and 30x A330-300s. The airline let the MoU expire and confirmed it in Jun 2010.
    :arrow: Of course, we know about the recent cancellation of the 39 A380s.
So, the long-held assumption that EK will never cancel its 777x order does not seem grounded in reality, given the airline's past actions.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if some (or many) of the last A380s still on the order books are NTU.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
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