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qf789
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Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:32 am

Welcome to the official thread for the Paris Air Show for Boeing Orders and related news. Please add your comments below

Just a friendly reminder to keep the debate on topic and to keep all flamebait out of the discussion
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T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:38 pm

Can someone confirm, Boeing is only with one single passenger jet (we are not talking about frighters e.g.) at PAS2019? A B787 from Air Tahiti Nui?
Source in German: https://www.dw.com/de/le-bourget-boeings-dunkle-wolken-%C3%BCber-der-paris-air-show/a-49199430
A KC46A is there, also a B737 800 F conversion.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:53 pm

T4thH wrote:
Can someone confirm, Boeing is only with one single passenger jet (we are not talking about frighters e.g.) at PAS2019? A B787 from Air Tahiti Nui?
Source in German: https://www.dw.com/de/le-bourget-boeings-dunkle-wolken-%C3%BCber-der-paris-air-show/a-49199430
A KC46A is there, also a B737 800 F conversion.


Not that surprising, they can’t the MAX currently and the 777X hasn’t flown yet.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:57 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Not that surprising, they can’t the MAX currently and the 777X hasn’t flown yet.


Do they let the general public into the static commercial exhibits from Airbus and Boeing during the "Open Days"?

If so, then they are probably the main reason the OEMs bring them.

If not, then it's just to have something to fly around acrobatically during the event and the airshow rules only allow one frame in the air at a time, so how many can you reasonably bring... :biggrin:
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:27 pm

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Not that surprising, they can’t the MAX currently and the 777X hasn’t flown yet.


Do they let the general public into the static commercial exhibits from Airbus and Boeing during the "Open Days"?

If so, then they are probably the main reason the OEMs bring them.

If not, then it's just to have something to fly around acrobatically during the event and the airshow rules only allow one frame in the air at a time, so how many can you reasonably bring... :biggrin:


I think it’s only the media that gets to go into the aircraft. I don’t believe the general public are allowed in until Friday. By then Boeing is typically gone.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:22 am

Surprised that Boeing didn't bring a 787-10, which is really the best product Boeing is delivering at the moment. A (for example) United 787-10 alongside the Tahitian 787-9 would have made for a nice display.
 
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flee
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:34 am

Stitch wrote:
Do they let the general public into the static commercial exhibits from Airbus and Boeing during the "Open Days"?

They usually disappear after two or three days - so not around on public days. Even on trade days, entrance is by registration/invitation. It is not a free for all.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:04 am

seabosdca wrote:
Surprised that Boeing didn't bring a 787-10, which is really the best product Boeing is delivering at the moment. A (for example) United 787-10 alongside the Tahitian 787-9 would have made for a nice display.


The KC-46 is actually an outstanding airplane for its mission, once they fix the FOD problem. The design of the airplane is excellent, but the program was marred by bean counters who spent five times as much later fixing problems rather than doing it right the first time (surprise!).

It should be of Boeing best products too.
 
Miquel787
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:12 am

ALC announce placement of a new Boeing 787-9 at LOT Polish airlines. Source: Yahoo finance.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 am

Some NMA news

GE’s Joyce said the launch of the A321XLR reinforces the company’s view NMA should have only one engine supplier. He understands P&W has the same view. Says 767-300-size NMA-7X will be first to market of Boeing’s two airplane NMA family.

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 6144088065

McAllister: We continue to work on business class of NMA. If we move forward, it will offer twin aisle comfort at single aisle economics.

https://twitter.com/airwaysmagazine/sta ... 0130625536
@DadCelo
 
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qf789
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:14 am

Miquel787 wrote:
ALC announce placement of a new Boeing 787-9 at LOT Polish airlines. Source: Yahoo finance.


For delivery 2021, also places 1 787-10 with KLM, delivery 2020

https://twitter.com/avgeekjames/status/ ... 32320?s=21
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Max Q
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:44 am

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Not that surprising, they can’t the MAX currently and the 777X hasn’t flown yet.


Do they let the general public into the static commercial exhibits from Airbus and Boeing during the "Open Days"?

If so, then they are probably the main reason the OEMs bring them.

If not, then it's just to have something to fly around acrobatically during the event and the airshow rules only allow one frame in the air at a time, so how many can you reasonably bring... :biggrin:



Wadrs


‘Acrobatics’ are performed by gymnasts, in
fact the word is defined as ‘spectacular gymnastic feats’


The word you are looking for is ‘aerobatics’
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Miquel787
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:05 am

When does Boeing their announcements? No clue about the pressconferences...
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:44 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Some NMA news

GE’s Joyce said the launch of the A321XLR reinforces the company’s view NMA should have only one engine supplier. He understands P&W has the same view. Says 767-300-size NMA-7X will be first to market of Boeing’s two airplane NMA family.

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 6144088065

McAllister: We continue to work on business class of NMA. If we move forward, it will offer twin aisle comfort at single aisle economics.

https://twitter.com/airwaysmagazine/sta ... 0130625536


Didn't a Boeing exec allegedly say to "standby for news" about the NMA at the Paris Airshow? I hope this isn't all they meant.
 
DALCE
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:29 am

flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,CS3,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
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flee
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:25 am

Boeing's priority must be to get the Max back on track because it is their cash cow. No deliveries also mean no incoming cashflow - something that is very important for every company.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:59 am

OK, seems Boeing got the first order but not for passenger jets, instead for freighters. Exercised options and some new options. And also not new build (as converted?)
https://twitter.com/airwaysmagazine/status/1140581774231244800.
GECAS:
So 10x 777 converted by Boeing to 777F from exercised options and new options for 15 737-8F?
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:07 pm

This is basically the launch of the 777 freighter conversion program, that is big news.
 
76er
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:08 pm

Wait a minute: did they actually mean B777BCF? That would be HUGE news.
 
marcelh
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:22 pm

76er wrote:
Wait a minute: did they actually mean B777BCF? That would be HUGE news.

Indeed. And will it be a conversion of the -77E or the -77W?
 
log0008
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:46 pm

Wow a 777 freighter conversion program is big news - exciting!
Last edited by log0008 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:47 pm

More information regarding the GECAS order of 777F and 737F. There are no 777F, instead all are B737800BCF.
So first news regarding 777F was wrong.

10 options to orders and 15 options of the 737-800 Boeing Converted Freighter (BCF) and GECAS is launch customer,

"@GECAS, just signed an agreement adding 15 737-800BCFs to their order book. This brings their firm orders and purchase rights to 65 for our newest freighter. #PAS19"

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06-17-GECAS-orders-10-737-800-Boeing-Converted-Freighters-adds-15-options?sf214116224=1

When the first news for Boeing is, that old outworn birds after end of their passenger service live, converted by Boeing to freighters, are sold...and that is all till now on day 1, than it is clear, someone has now a real bad day on PAS2019.
Last edited by T4thH on Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:19 pm

Not an order, but good news for Boeing nonetheless.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ni-459024/

United Airlines continues to evaluate the newly launched Airbus A321XLR for its middle-of-the-market needs, but does not see the aircraft as a full solution to the gap in its fleet.

"The XLR doesn't solve the [Boeing] 767 replacement issue," Gerry Laderman, the US carrier's chief financial officer, told reporters at the Paris air show.


I suppose it does kinda reflect on the capability creep of the 787 though. Can't please all the people all the time can ye?
 
Lewton
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:33 pm

So Boeing decided to save its big orders for the next days of the show?
 
ITSTours
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:06 pm

People, let us keep the discussion about Boeing orders here. Whether A321XLR is a thing or not is irrelevant.

So Boeing continues to gain freighter orders where there is not a great competition. But I hope to see more pax aircraft orders. 787s for sure but it is sort of boring as 787s will sale anyway. 777X would be more exciting. But will there be? No rumors yet.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:15 pm

Please keep discussion to PAS news. Multiple moderators are being kept busy cleaning up this thread
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
rjmf22
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:47 pm

United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?
United Airlines
 
inkjet7
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:46 pm

qf789 wrote:

For delivery 2021, also places 1 787-10 with KLM, delivery 2020

https://twitter.com/avgeekjames/status/ ... 32320?s=21


Part of the swap between AF and KL involving 7 A359 going to AF and the 6 remaining outstanding AF 787 orders going to KL. This extra frame makes it a 7 for 7 deal.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:06 pm

https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/sign ... 777x-10379

British Airways has firmed its 18 frames 777-9 order today.

That should make Boeing the winner today, if one counts firm orders only, as I like to do.
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:28 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?


E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:32 pm

musman9853 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?


E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?


Doesn’t meet scope for US airlines.
 
Scorpio
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:37 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

For delivery 2021, also places 1 787-10 with KLM, delivery 2020

https://twitter.com/avgeekjames/status/ ... 32320?s=21


Part of the swap between AF and KL involving 7 A359 going to AF and the 6 remaining outstanding AF 787 orders going to KL. This extra frame makes it a 7 for 7 deal.

That supposed swap still hasn't been confirmed anywhere AFAIK. It's still just a rumor.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:42 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/signature-du-contrat-de-british-airways-pour-18-b777x-10379

British Airways has firmed its 18 frames 777-9 order today.

That should make Boeing the winner today, if one counts firm orders only, as I like to do.

That order was already firmed in March.

Today IAG signed a number of service contracts with Boeing for the 777X. But also a component services agreement for the IAG A320 fleet, which is a first for Boeing.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06-17 ... Agreements



And anyone who is talking about "winners" in this edition of the airshow is completely clueless about what's going on right now in Paris and the aviation industry.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:57 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/signature-du-contrat-de-british-airways-pour-18-b777x-10379

British Airways has firmed its 18 frames 777-9 order today.

That should make Boeing the winner today, if one counts firm orders only, as I like to do.

That order was already firmed in March.

Today IAG signed a number of service contracts with Boeing for the 777X. But also a component services agreement for the IAG A320 fleet, which is a first for Boeing.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-06-17 ... Agreements



And anyone who is talking about "winners" in this edition of the airshow is completely clueless about what's going on right now in Paris and the aviation industry.


At least they milked it. They did a deferred ceremonial signing regarding the order, according to the Boeing press release you are referring to.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:04 pm

How is that milking?

Yes, they had a deferred ceremonial signing, but all the attention was for the service contracts, also in the media.
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:47 pm

Can someone explain like I am 5 what the Boeing IAG A320 service agreement means? I don’t understand the meaning or motivation behind it.
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:30 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?


E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?


Doesn’t meet scope for US airlines.


I thought it was only the e2-190 and 195 that didn't meet scope?
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:33 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
How is that milking?

Yes, they had a deferred ceremonial signing, but all the attention was for the service contracts, also in the media.


The media I found did only mention signing the contract to buy the 18 777-9, non mentioned other contracts. A press release is not the media.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:36 pm

musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?


Doesn’t meet scope for US airlines.


I thought it was only the e2-190 and 195 that didn't meet scope?


I meant that more so in context of the order in question, which was for E175-E1.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:38 pm

musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?


Doesn’t meet scope for US airlines.


I thought it was only the e2-190 and 195 that didn't meet scope?


There is a scope clause limit for regional jets of 39 t MTOW. The E-175 has a MTOW little less than 39 t; the E 175 E2 has around 45 t MTOW. This is the reason, we have today seen the order for the E 175 and till now an empty order book for the E 175 E2.
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:46 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
How is that milking?

Yes, they had a deferred ceremonial signing, but all the attention was for the service contracts, also in the media.


The media I found did only mention signing the contract to buy the 18 777-9, non mentioned other contracts. A press release is not the media.


Try this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/17/boeing- ... -jets.html
 
Absynth
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:02 pm

777X first flight postponed till end of the year, did anybody mention this already?

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -the-fall/
 
BravoOne
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:02 pm

Stitch wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
Not that surprising, they can’t the MAX currently and the 777X hasn’t flown yet.


Do they let the general public into the static commercial exhibits from Airbus and Boeing during the "Open Days"?

If so, then they are probably the main reason the OEMs bring them.

If not, then it's just to have something to fly around acrobatically during the event and the airshow rules only allow one frame in the air at a time, so how many can you reasonably bring... :biggrin:


I recall boarding the 767-400 at Farnborough although I was part of a company that was a big player at the time. Same day the Concorde crashed CDG. Needless to say, the mood was very somber.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:17 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
How is that milking?

Yes, they had a deferred ceremonial signing, but all the attention was for the service contracts, also in the media.


The media I found did only mention signing the contract to buy the 18 777-9, non mentioned other contracts. A press release is not the media.


Try this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/17/boeing- ... -jets.html


Always nice when you have to do somebody else's job for them. :-)
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:26 pm

T4thH wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Doesn’t meet scope for US airlines.


I thought it was only the e2-190 and 195 that didn't meet scope?


There is a scope clause limit for regional jets of 39 t MTOW. The E-175 has a MTOW little less than 39 t; the E 175 E2 has around 45 t MTOW. This is the reason, we have today seen the order for the E 175 and till now an empty order book for the E 175 E2.


ah, thanks. I thought the scope requirements had more to do with size and capacity.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:43 pm

musman9853 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
musman9853 wrote:

I thought it was only the e2-190 and 195 that didn't meet scope?


There is a scope clause limit for regional jets of 39 t MTOW. The E-175 has a MTOW little less than 39 t; the E 175 E2 has around 45 t MTOW. This is the reason, we have today seen the order for the E 175 and till now an empty order book for the E 175 E2.


ah, thanks. I thought the scope requirements had more to do with size and capacity.


The E190 and 195, both E1 and E2, also don't meet scope because of capacity (as well as weight). Scope clauses deal with both.

I'm kinda surprised they haven't done a paper derate to lower the MTOW of the E2 170/175 below scope. UA and BBD did it with seating capacity to bring the 70 seat CRJ7 down to a 50 seater as the CRJ550. I assume the performance penalty would be too great? it's not like they are really intended for longer flights.
 
grbauc
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:57 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?



I love the aircraft Great News I want AA to get some more and some A220's would be nice
 
grbauc
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:59 pm

musman9853 wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:
United reportedly just ordered 39 more E175's, would this be the place to put it since Embraer is mostly Boeing now?


E1s, not E2s. wonder why airlines are so hesitant for the e2?



Well US airlines we know why.. Scope.
 
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Pudelhund
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:14 am

tjh8402 wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
T4thH wrote:

There is a scope clause limit for regional jets of 39 t MTOW. The E-175 has a MTOW little less than 39 t; the E 175 E2 has around 45 t MTOW. This is the reason, we have today seen the order for the E 175 and till now an empty order book for the E 175 E2.


ah, thanks. I thought the scope requirements had more to do with size and capacity.


The E190 and 195, both E1 and E2, also don't meet scope because of capacity (as well as weight). Scope clauses deal with both.

I'm kinda surprised they haven't done a paper derate to lower the MTOW of the E2 170/175 below scope. UA and BBD did it with seating capacity to bring the 70 seat CRJ7 down to a 50 seater as the CRJ550. I assume the performance penalty would be too great? it's not like they are really intended for longer flights.


I think derating the MTOW by 15% on such a small aircraft is not within the realm of a simple "derate".
 
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Stitch
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 am

tjh8402 wrote:
I'm kinda surprised they haven't done a paper derate to lower the MTOW of the E2 170/175 below scope. UA and BBD did it with seating capacity to bring the 70 seat CRJ7 down to a 50 seater as the CRJ550. I assume the performance penalty would be too great? it's not like they are really intended for longer flights.


As I understand it, the E2 needs that MTOW to tank sufficient fuel to maintain a similar range to the earlier models because of the extra weight of the structure and GTF engines.
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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos