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AECM
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:02 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
i would expect some order of the xlr from AY, SK, and why not TP and maybe even BT that could be positioned to be a small hub in the baltics. of course these orders can happen anytime during the year.
TP will probably also get some A321XLR but probably it would be a new order or by a lessor
 
Amiga500
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:04 pm

zeke wrote:
Airbus uses 95 kg per pax, maybe in North America in winter 105 maybe more reasonable but that does not change the range the aircraft will fly. If they are saying design payload is 20.9 tonnes, you can achieve that with all cargo under the floor and no passengers, the aircraft will still fly the same distance.


200 x 105 = 21tonnes.

So seat numbers in excess of 200 must lead to some loss of fuel? [assuming that they were not fuel volume limited at 20.9T payload]


[It'd lead to loss of range anyway through incrementally higher fuel burn, but thats not really what we're talking about.]
 
tomcat
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:14 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
zeke wrote:
Airbus uses 95 kg per pax, maybe in North America in winter 105 maybe more reasonable but that does not change the range the aircraft will fly. If they are saying design payload is 20.9 tonnes, you can achieve that with all cargo under the floor and no passengers, the aircraft will still fly the same distance.


200 x 105 = 21tonnes.

So seat numbers in excess of 200 must lead to some loss of fuel? [assuming that they were not fuel volume limited at 20.9T payload]


[It'd lead to loss of range anyway through incrementally higher fuel burn, but thats not really what we're talking about.]


The XLR has a fuel capacity of 31t. Add to that the weight of one ACT (to achieve the 31t of fuel capacity), that leaves less than 70t for the aircraft dry weight and payload. I'm not sure how much payload can still be loaded with that amount of fuel but it looks like it's less than 20t. I would also expect that on a 11 hours flight, the catering per passenger will be heavier than for a 2 hours flight.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:19 pm

This are all the new orders from all the announcements the last couple of days. I included and sorted them to the order status, just to make it clear how they should be firmed up. I didn't include the conversions as I just wanted to show the new business.


Virgin Atlantic – Firm – 8x A330neo
Middle East Airlines – Firm – 4x A321XLR
SAUDIA – Firm – 15x A320neo fam, 15x A321XLR (+35 options)
IAG – Firm – 14x A321XLR
Delta – Firm – 5x A220-100
Qantas – Firm – 10x A321XLR

Atlantic Airways – Purchase Agreement – 2x A320neo
American Airlines – Purchase Agreement – 20x A321XLR

Cebu Pacific – MOU – 16x A330neo, 10x A321XLR, 5x A320neo
Indigo Partners – MOU – 32x A321XLR
Flynas – MOU – 10x A321XLR
Nordic Aviation Capital – MOU – 20x A220

China Airlines – MOA – 11x A321neo (MOA = Memorandum of Agreement)

ALC – LOI – 50x A220-300 – 27x A321XLR (+ 23 options)

Unidentified – status unclear – 10x A220

Revealed:
Accipiter Holdings – Purchase Agreement – 20x A320neo (firmed up in March as UFO)


After the Farnborough 2018 order counting debacle when the monthly order update showed us that Airbus didn't sign a single new firm order at the airshow it should be different this year. Even though the totals in the wrap up press release again don't 1 on 1 add up to the announcements and press releases, there will at least be real firm orders this year. (several had already been booked previously, other firm announcement were only firmed up months later)

So this year Airbus had less new business compared to last years summer show, but as the actual firm new orders will be a larger number (very easy when it was 0 last year) this year should be considered as better show for them. Plus Airbus had the successful launch of the A321XLR this year. Even if you consider the total number of orders for this new model as modest compared to the overall neo orders, it did get a good number of solid customers. With a good start it's clear to see that more will follow in the next couple of years. And remember, any order that wasn't announced at this airshow can always be announced at a later date.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:23 pm

Breathe wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Updates on Airbus press conference:
10 more A220 by UFO.

Total A220 orders now:
Update: Airbus has now confirmed another 10 A220s have been ordered at #PAS19 by an undisclosed (but non-lessor) customer. Brings total ordered at Paris Air Show to 85:
Air Lease Corp (50)
Nordic Aviation Capital (20)
Delta (5)
Undisclosed (10).
https://twitter.com/RyanMcAleerbiz/status/1141640954539106311

EDIT 1:
No A350 orders on PAS but new buisiness is coming.
https://twitter.com/MaxK_J/status/1141640776767721473

EDIT 2:
85 A220 orders
127 non A321Xlr A320 Neo orders.
226 A321 Xlr orders from 11 customers
24 A330 Neo orders

Edit 3: Airbus official announcement
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/airbus-sees-strong-demand-for-its-new-commercial-aircraft-products-at-paris-air-show-2019.html

Edit 4: Regarding A350; new buisiness is confirmed to be coming but not before end of the airshow.
https://twitter.com/RAeSTimR/status/1141643512376635393

A decent haul to land back at the harbour.


And do not forget the additional late order:
10 A321Xlr more
Flynas has just ordered 10 A321XLR with a Memorandum of Understanding, bringing the total number of A321XLR ordered at the #PAS19 to 246
https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/11 ... 9902144513
 
musman9853
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:31 pm

lightsaber wrote:

The xLR will have 3800nm to 3900 nm of still air range:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40hnl

That is ORD, IAH, DFW, DTW to HNL.

This opens up ORD to the EU.

Wow does it open up CLT and PHL across the Atlantic.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40clt

Lightsaber[/quote]

It also opens up more SA routes for AA out of Miami. Really excited for this bird
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
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zeke
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:32 pm

Amiga500 wrote:

200 x 105 = 21tonnes.

So seat numbers in excess of 200 must lead to some loss of fuel? [assuming that they were not fuel volume limited at 20.9T payload]


[It'd lead to loss of range anyway through incrementally higher fuel burn, but thats not really what we're talking about.]


I have only seen the launch news at PAS like everyone else, I was working on 220*95=20.9 tonnes, that would be the design payload (220 pax and their baggage at 95 kg each) over 4700 nm. If you want to fly further payload needs to be reduced, if you want to carry more, range must be reduced.

The 4700 nm assumes still air (no headwind) and standard atmosphere, both of which will never be seen in service over 4700 nm. The 4700 nm figure is just a standardised benchmark, using a standard atmosphere.

Similar sort of range to the early A330-300
Last edited by zeke on Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AdEd
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:32 pm

How many orders from undisclosed customers have been placed so far?
Last edited by AdEd on Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:34 pm

Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?
 
Bricktop
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:41 pm

In the JL era of course, a mega-order may drop on the last day to change the narrative. Any sightings of the man?
 
A388
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
I think folks are under estimating how much range the xlr has. 4700 *nm*. To put this in perspective, New York to Hawaii is only 4300nm GC. It would probably struggle a bit westbound but east bound would be a breeze. ORD-HNL is no problem with a US3 config (ULCC config is a stretch). IAH-LHR is doable at 4200nm.

It has more range than UA’s 772 (non ERs) and early model 763’s. Smokes the 757 range by nearly 1000 miles or 2 hour trip time.

Regular 321neos have no problem west coast to Hawaii and 321LR can reach into the mountain west assuming no take off performance issues from high density altitude going west.

I suspect more 10-20 frame orders will continue to flow. Anyone who operates a neo makes this an easy sub fleet for long and thin or flexible.

The xLR will have 3800nm to 3900 nm of still air range:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40hnl

That is ORD, IAH, DFW, DTW to HNL.

This opens up ORD to the EU.

Wow does it open up CLT and PHL across the Atlantic.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40clt

Lightsaber


Lightsaber, how do you make these circle maps from one airport on the gcmapper website?

A388
 
RawSushi
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:43 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?


The 200+ orders announced within a mere few days for the A321XLR is one-fifth of all the 757s ever ordered and delivered in the entire lifetime of its program.

Put things in a different perspective doesn't it?
 
Kikko19
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:46 pm

AECM wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
i would expect some order of the xlr from AY, SK, and why not TP and maybe even BT that could be positioned to be a small hub in the baltics. of course these orders can happen anytime during the year.
TP will probably also get some A321XLR but probably it would be a new order or by a lessor

i think the same, no hurry, conversions are also possible for any a32x operator.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:46 pm

RawSushi wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?


The 200+ orders announced within a mere few days for the A321XLR is one-fifth of all the 757s ever ordered and delivered in the entire lifetime of its program.

Put things in a different perspective doesn't it?

It's a different world, FFS. That's perspective, mon ami.

Edit: As an aside, how many orders did the 737-10 start with?
 
Dominion301
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:59 pm

MrBren wrote:


They're also upsizing 10 320NEOs to standard 321NEOs.

The 321 has definitely been the star of PAS19.
 
A388
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:04 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
AECM wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
i would expect some order of the xlr from AY, SK, and why not TP and maybe even BT that could be positioned to be a small hub in the baltics. of course these orders can happen anytime during the year.
TP will probably also get some A321XLR but probably it would be a new order or by a lessor

i think the same, no hurry, conversions are also possible for any a32x operator.


As per below article TP will order the A321XLR either via existing order conversions or a new order. As per this article they are not happy with the A321LR. This was David Neeleman's quote in the article: "Because the [A321]LR didn't end up having the range it was promised… the LR wasn't a [Boeing] 757 replacement. The XLR is more suited."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... an-459058/


A388
 
airbazar
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:04 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
I am surprised we had no orders from biggies like LH,AF,TK for the XLR..

AF is probably the only one of those airlines that I'd expect to see order the XLR.
I don't think LH and TK need the extra range of the XLR. I don't think that long haul narrowbody routes are in their plans. In fact LH has stated so.

ITSTours wrote:
Philippine Airlines is flying MNL-SYD (3371nm) with A321neo (non-LR). 168 seats.
Primera Air did CDG-EWR (3171nm) with A321neo (non-LR), with more seats (204). As it was a ULCC so probably bags were light though.

Anyway, 3400-3500nm implies that XLR does nothing to current neo, so I don't think it is true.


I agree. I think the XLR is solidly into the 4,000+nm East-West range, and even longer North-South routes.

A388 wrote:
As per this article they are not happy with the A321LR.

Geez talk about completely misrepresenting the truth. The quotes in the article say exactly the opposite:
"The LR is a great airplane for TAP," says Neves, adding that the XLR will allow the airline to go even further."
Last edited by airbazar on Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:05 pm

Bricktop wrote:
RawSushi wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?


The 200+ orders announced within a mere few days for the A321XLR is one-fifth of all the 757s ever ordered and delivered in the entire lifetime of its program.

Put things in a different perspective doesn't it?

It's a different world, FFS. That's perspective, mon ami.

Edit: As an aside, how many orders did the 737-10 start with?

The 737-10 was launched with 240 orders/commitments.

I agree with the perspective, the current market is much bigger then the market when the 757 was in production. Thank you Asia. And let's not forget that the standard A321 is also swimming in the same pool as the 757 which was not just used on mid-haul to long-haul routes. You got to compare it with the base model as well.
 
dredgy
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:07 pm

AECM wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
i would expect some order of the xlr from AY, SK, and why not TP and maybe even BT that could be positioned to be a small hub in the baltics. of course these orders can happen anytime during the year.
TP will probably also get some A321XLR but probably it would be a new order or by a lessor


TAP would be mad not to if I’m looking at range maps correctly. Not only would it be a boon to their African expansion plans, but it looks like it has the legs to do Brazil? I’m not sure what the payload restrictions are on 4700 miles, but for those northern secondary cities, it could be a game changer.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=LIS-BEL,LIS- ... =%2300b3a8

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=3800nm%40 ... 0x360&PM=*
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:16 pm

RawSushi wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?


The 200+ orders announced within a mere few days for the A321XLR is one-fifth of all the 757s ever ordered and delivered in the entire lifetime of its program.

Put things in a different perspective doesn't it?


We have seen already 236 orders (firm/loi), options e.g. from 12 different companies for 16 or more different airlines and lessors in 4 days. And most of them are "the good ones" so long time established or the mayor ones. And minimum half of them were unexpected (as discussed here earlier). Some other big orders are already "announced" by the airlines, that they will be performed, but official orders are still pending. As example IndiGo airlines (announced a big Airbus order "till end of June including further A321LR and new XLR) and IndiGo will never order small, something like "100" is small for them).

1050 B757 have been build. The B757 started with 38 orders in the first year (1978) and there were no one in the second year. It was said/discussed, around 20% of all 321 Neo orders will be together for the two long range versions, so the A321 LR and the A321 Xlr. A ccording till now seen LR and Xlr orders in the last 4 days, the percentage seems to be higher.

I don't think LH and TK need the extra range of the XLR

Surprise, as stated in a interview (in German News) jast year fall: That the A321 Xlr was devoloped was on request of some mayor airlines, especially (and first/one of the first) stressed by LH. For hubs located in the middle of Europe (like Paris, Frankfurt, Vienna, Berlin e.g.) , the range of the LR is too short and without use. Regarding this, they have asked and stressed Airbus for more range.
Last edited by T4thH on Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:28 pm

T4thH wrote:
RawSushi wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Good job, Momo1435. I have to say, even with the very successful announcement of the A321XLR, that's pretty underwhelming. Really boils down to a few months production on the NB front. On the WB side, the 24 339s are a boost to the program, but there are zero A350s. If nothing comes of today, I'd say apart from the launch of the XLR I think the word of the week is lackluster.

And before the fanboys start flaming me, yes it's more than BCA are walking away with. Feel better now?


The 200+ orders announced within a mere few days for the A321XLR is one-fifth of all the 757s ever ordered and delivered in the entire lifetime of its program.

Put things in a different perspective doesn't it?


We have seen already 236 orders (firm/loi), options e.g. from 12 different companies for 16 or more different airlines and lessors in 4 days. And most of them are "the good ones" so long time established or the mayor ones. And minimum half of them were unexpected (as discussed here earlier). Some other big orders are already "announced" by the airlines, that they will be performed, but official orders are still pending. As example IndiGo airlines (announced a big Airbus order "till end of June including further A321LR and new XLR) and IndiGo will never order small, something like "100" is small for them).

1050 B757 have been build. The B757 started with 38 orders in the first year (1978) and there were no one in the second year. It was said/discussed, around 20% of all 321 Neo orders will be together for the two long range versions, so the A321 LR and the A321 Xlr. A ccording till now seen LR and Xlr orders in the last 4 days, the percentage seems to be higher.

Lookit I am not dissing the A321XLR, but comparing 2019's aviation landscape to when the 757 was launched is just silly. I don't know what rate the 757 was produced at, but Airbus spits out A320s at a rate of 60 a month or so. It's an apples and tennis balls comparison. And has been pointed out, the a.net laughing stock 737-10 was launched with 240 orders. Just sayin.
 
behramjee
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:31 pm

The unidentifiable A220 order of 10 units by an airline I think is Korean Air after their CEO officially stating that they will be placing a top up order shortly since they were very happy with the aircraft performance in their fleet.

So we are still waiting for order announcements from Spirit, Royal Jordanian and Air France.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Any more announcements being made today/ tomorrow or are we all done for Paris ?
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:40 pm

Lookit I am not dissing the A321XLR, but comparing 2019's aviation landscape to when the 757 was launched is just silly. I don't know what rate the 757 was produced at, but Airbus spits out A320s at a rate of 60 a month or so. It's an apples and tennis balls comparison. And has been pointed out, the a.net laughing stock 737-10 was launched with 240 orders. Just sayin.


You are right, but you can also not compare the A321 xlr with the Max 10. The Max 10 (together with the Max 9) subfamily of th B737 Max family is a competitor with the whole A321 Neo subfamily.
The A321 Xlr is a 100% niche bird of the A321 Neo subfamily of the A320 Neo family. And this year is a really bad year till now according orders by airlines and lessors.
For a sub-sub family in a real bad year, it is an excellent start. It got the same numbers as the Max 10.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:52 pm

behramjee wrote:
The unidentifiable A220 order of 10 units by an airline I think is Korean Air after their CEO officially stating that they will be placing a top up order shortly since they were very happy with the aircraft performance in their fleet.

So we are still waiting for order announcements from Spirit, Royal Jordanian and Air France.

Sorry, according last statement at IATA in June, they will order the A220 but not this year. They have still 10 options and additional 10 purchase rights, but according delivery dates of the options, they are not forced to take them this year, they can and will wait till 2020 or even begin of 2021. I will be surprised, if the UFO is KAL.
 
workhorse
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The xLR will have 3800nm to 3900 nm of still air range:


Are you sure? Didn't the LR already have 4000nm still air range?
 
AdEd
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:01 pm

Who are the 11 customers so far for the XLR? IAG, Saudia, Cebu, AA, Qantas Group, ALC, flynas, Indigo Partners, MEA... am I missing three more or are those undisclosed customers?
 
behramjee
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:08 pm

T4thH wrote:
behramjee wrote:
The unidentifiable A220 order of 10 units by an airline I think is Korean Air after their CEO officially stating that they will be placing a top up order shortly since they were very happy with the aircraft performance in their fleet.

So we are still waiting for order announcements from Spirit, Royal Jordanian and Air France.

Sorry, according last statement at IATA in June, they will order the A220 but not this year. They have still 10 options and additional 10 purchase rights, but according delivery dates of the options, they are not forced to take them this year, they can and will wait till 2020 or even begin of 2021. I will be surprised, if the UFO is KAL.


oh ok thanks for the clarification regarding the time frame specifics...then the only other one I can think of is Royal Jordanian to replace their E-Jets + A319s.
 
sabby
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:11 pm

A388 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Okcflyer wrote:
I think folks are under estimating how much range the xlr has. 4700 *nm*. To put this in perspective, New York to Hawaii is only 4300nm GC. It would probably struggle a bit westbound but east bound would be a breeze. ORD-HNL is no problem with a US3 config (ULCC config is a stretch). IAH-LHR is doable at 4200nm.

It has more range than UA’s 772 (non ERs) and early model 763’s. Smokes the 757 range by nearly 1000 miles or 2 hour trip time.

Regular 321neos have no problem west coast to Hawaii and 321LR can reach into the mountain west assuming no take off performance issues from high density altitude going west.

I suspect more 10-20 frame orders will continue to flow. Anyone who operates a neo makes this an easy sub fleet for long and thin or flexible.

The xLR will have 3800nm to 3900 nm of still air range:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40hnl

That is ORD, IAH, DFW, DTW to HNL.

This opens up ORD to the EU.

Wow does it open up CLT and PHL across the Atlantic.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40clt

Lightsaber


Lightsaber, how do you make these circle maps from one airport on the gcmapper website?

A388


You put <range>@<Airport Iata code> e.g. [email protected] in the text box where you put two airport codes.
 
T4thH
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:16 pm

AdEd wrote:
Who are the 11 customers so far for the XLR? IAG, Saudia, Cebu, AA, Qantas Group, ALC, flynas, Indigo Partners, MEA... am I missing three more or are those undisclosed customers?


Ok, now I know, how they have counted.
226 orders and commitments: 50 each from American and Indigo Partners (Wizz Air/Frontier/Jetsmart), 26 from Qantas, 27 from ALC, 20 undisclosed, 15 from Saudia, 14 from IAG (Iberia/Aer Lingus), 10 from Cebu Pacific and 4 from Middle East Airlines.


They have not counted Indigo Partners, instead the 3 airlines. The same for IAG, they have counted the two airlines.
So as last order for 10 birds by flynas came after the final press conference, there are 12 customers now.
American, Wizz Air, Frontier, Jetsmart, Qantas,, ALC, Saudia, Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cebu Pacific, Middle East Airlines and with delay, after end of it, Flynas.
 
Alfons
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:17 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:22 pm

you guys (and girls) are always talking about numbers. Maybe I'm phantasizing, but I see much more than only numbers. The 321xlr reaches a market area where customers had always to make compromises. Either way buy something which doesn't travel so far and therefore reduces potential services, or buy something which travels so far but has too high operating costs because tacheless the vehicle is too big.

I believe Airbus hits that spot with the xlr. I also think that Boeing is very interested in those numbers, as they can help to refine their formula on probable sales numbers for their NMA.

One thing's for sure, those 200 sold xlr will multiply.
 
A388
Posts: 8000
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:49 pm

sabby wrote:
A388 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The xLR will have 3800nm to 3900 nm of still air range:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40hnl

That is ORD, IAH, DFW, DTW to HNL.

This opens up ORD to the EU.

Wow does it open up CLT and PHL across the Atlantic.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3800nm%40clt

Lightsaber


Lightsaber, how do you make these circle maps from one airport on the gcmapper website?

A388


You put <range>@<Airport Iata code> e.g. [email protected] in the text box where you put two airport codes.


Thanks for the explanation sabby.

A388
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:15 pm

Looks like JetBlue ordered 13 A321XLRs and 10 A220-100s.

https://www.reuters.com/article/france- ... SP6N21G020
Last edited by Ishrion on Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:17 pm

I think the rather lackluster sales, are not indicative of the relative health of the two main companies, but rather their customers. Other than the British Airways order only relatively minor business being done. The earlier binge of ordering needs to be digested and airlines are clearly reevaluating their plans, only minor growth and replacement seems to be on the cards right now. Maybe they are waiting for the next new thing, and this is part of the airplane cycle or maybe a reflection on the economic cycle. The ME3 are done with there big growth and are pulling back to more suitable size, US3 are already replacing their aging fleets, South American growth has hit some bumps, China the economy is softening and India is dealing with the sudden demise of a leading airline. Europe is dealing with uncertainty the only bright spot, but from a low starting point seems to be small pacific nations and Africa, although they did not really appear either.

I think we are just in a holding phase waiting to see which way the wind blows.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2424
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:24 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Looks like JetBlue ordered 13 A321XLRs and 10 A220-100s.

https://www.reuters.com/article/france- ... SP6N21G020


I know the article doesn't say, but probably conversions as B6 ordered 13 LRs.
 
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gatibosgru
Posts: 1773
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:32 pm

@DadCelo
 
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BahamaTodd
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:51 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:41 pm

Airbus is going to make their own bid to undo that IAG Max deal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-max-deal

Airbus SE vowed to put up a fight to undo a $24 billion deal landed by rival Boeing Co. for 737 Max planes that proved to be the sales coup of this year’s Paris Air Show.

Speaking at a final press conference from Le Bourget airfield outside the French capital on Thursday, Airbus sales chief Christian Scherer said the European planemaker never received a request for proposals -- a document that formally launches bidding for most major aircraft contracts -- from IAG SA, the owner of British Airways.
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:43 pm

Exeiowa wrote:
I think the rather lackluster sales, are not indicative of the relative health of the two main companies, but rather their customers. Other than the British Airways order only relatively minor business being done. The earlier binge of ordering needs to be digested and airlines are clearly reevaluating their plans, only minor growth and replacement seems to be on the cards right now. Maybe they are waiting for the next new thing, and this is part of the airplane cycle or maybe a reflection on the economic cycle. The ME3 are done with there big growth and are pulling back to more suitable size, US3 are already replacing their aging fleets, South American growth has hit some bumps, China the economy is softening and India is dealing with the sudden demise of a leading airline. Europe is dealing with uncertainty the only bright spot, but from a low starting point seems to be small pacific nations and Africa, although they did not really appear either.

I think we are just in a holding phase waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Last year was much slower if you only count the identified orders. But apart from that I think that the main issue for Airbus right now is the lack of A320 production slots. If airlines are a bit more conservative it will only show that they won't order with delivery slots too far out in the future.
 
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MrBren
Posts: 329
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:46 pm

Airbus PR about JetBlue: JetBlue Airways to add A321XLR and additional A220s to its fleet

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/jetblue-airways-to-add-a321xlr-and-additional-a220s-to-its-fleet.html
 
behramjee
Posts: 5106
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:50 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Looks like JetBlue ordered 13 A321XLRs and 10 A220-100s.

https://www.reuters.com/article/france- ... SP6N21G020


As per the official Airbus press release its 10 A220-300s and not -100s !

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... fleet.html
 
T4thH
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:55 pm

Ok...update.
85/95 A220 orders (10x former UFO order is possibly JetBlue?) So either still 85 or new 95 orders.
127 non A321Xlr A320 Neo orders.
249 A321 Xlr orders from 13 customers
(American, Wizz Air, Frontier, Jetsmart, Qantas,, ALC, Saudia, Iberia, Aer Lingus, Cebu Pacific, Middle East Airlines, Flynas and JetBlue).
24 A330 Neo orders
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:03 pm

Rather quiet today... what're the total orders for day 4?

Flynas A320neos, Nordic Aviation A220s, and JetBlue's order?
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:05 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
Unidentified – status unclear – 10x A220.

Spirit?
So... when will the Northwest DC-9s be retired?
 
Arion640
Posts: 3078
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:09 pm

BahamaTodd wrote:
Airbus is going to make their own bid to undo that IAG Max deal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-max-deal

Airbus SE vowed to put up a fight to undo a $24 billion deal landed by rival Boeing Co. for 737 Max planes that proved to be the sales coup of this year’s Paris Air Show.

Speaking at a final press conference from Le Bourget airfield outside the French capital on Thursday, Airbus sales chief Christian Scherer said the European planemaker never received a request for proposals -- a document that formally launches bidding for most major aircraft contracts -- from IAG SA, the owner of British Airways.


That’s exactly what IAG want to happen.
 
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gatibosgru
Posts: 1773
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Boeing News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Arion640 wrote:
BahamaTodd wrote:
Airbus is going to make their own bid to undo that IAG Max deal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-max-deal

Airbus SE vowed to put up a fight to undo a $24 billion deal landed by rival Boeing Co. for 737 Max planes that proved to be the sales coup of this year’s Paris Air Show.

Speaking at a final press conference from Le Bourget airfield outside the French capital on Thursday, Airbus sales chief Christian Scherer said the European planemaker never received a request for proposals -- a document that formally launches bidding for most major aircraft contracts -- from IAG SA, the owner of British Airways.


That’s exactly what IAG want to happen.


IAG win either way, what a deal.
@DadCelo
 
T4thH
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:33 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Momo1435 wrote:
Unidentified – status unclear – 10x A220.

Spirit?

Or the 10x of the late announced JetBlue A220-300 order.
But than I have to ask, why this order was already part of the lunch time final Airbus news coference, but not the A321 Xlr order from JetBlue. OK, perhaps at that moment the A220 was already signed and the A321 Xlr order still in discussion.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20313
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Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:10 pm

I'm personally excited by JetBlue ordering xLR and ten more A220:
http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -162857598
Winter is coming.
 
astuteman
Posts: 7154
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:19 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
MrBren wrote:


They're also upsizing 10 320NEOs to standard 321NEOs.

The 321 has definitely been the star of PAS19.


I agree wholeheartedly. How many orders/commitments/conversions did the A321 and its derivatives land this week?

I'd love to know

Rgds
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:22 pm

MrBren wrote:
Airbus PR about JetBlue: JetBlue Airways to add A321XLR and additional A220s to its fleet

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/jetblue-airways-to-add-a321xlr-and-additional-a220s-to-its-fleet.html

So yet another conversion and option firming deal. That seems to be the fashionable thing at this show. :(
 
FlyHPN
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:15 pm

Re: Paris Air Show 2019: Airbus News and Orders Thread

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:23 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Looks like JetBlue ordered 13 A321XLRs and 10 A220-100s.

https://www.reuters.com/article/france- ... SP6N21G020


I know the article doesn't say, but probably conversions as B6 ordered 13 LRs.

They are conversions, but they appear to be conversions from the standard neo order, not conversions from the LR, as they're still talking about launching Europe service using the LR in 2021.

As announced in April 2019, JetBlue intends to launch service to London from New York-JFK and Boston in 2021 using the A321LR (long range) aircraft. Today’s XLR news builds on the previously announced conversion of 13 A321neos to the A321LR aircraft.

Like London, JetBlue will explore European cities that suffer from high fares or mediocre service and those which are effectively controlled by legacy carriers and their massive joint ventures. JetBlue is developing a reimagined transatlantic version of its premium Mint product, as well as an enhanced transatlantic Core experience for the A321XLR. With both the A321LR, and now the A321XLR, the customer-favorite airline intends lower fares while raising the bar on what travelers can expect from a low-cost carrier when flying across the Atlantic.

http://mediaroom.jetblue.com/investor-r ... -162857598
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