Canuck600
Topic Author
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:48 pm

Didn't see a topic for this unless it's inside one of the Paris topics https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing- ... how-2019-6
 
ITSTours
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:51 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:37 pm

Although the link is Business Insider the original source is from the Associated Press. Another:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-w ... story.html
 
chiad
Posts: 1193
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:50 pm

Quote: "The FAA says Boeing's troubled 737 Max may not fly again until December"
Yikes
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12323
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:04 pm

Meh, the mistake they're "admitting" to is "consistency" in communication.... which is not really saying much, and thus arguably questionable that they're saying anything at all. I guess some genius in Crisis Management thinks this is a good idea.

For legal/liability reasons, no one should expect them to admit much of anything.

And all that aside:
I can't comprehend how this CEO still has his job, especially the way the stock price has been going since February.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
h1fl1er
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:07 pm

chiad wrote:
Quote: "The FAA says Boeing's troubled 737 Max may not fly again until December"
Yikes


faa gonna punish them for making faa look foolish
 
Aceskywalker
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:55 am

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:13 pm

chiad wrote:
Quote: "The FAA says Boeing's troubled 737 Max may not fly again until December"
Yikes


MAX should be grounded as long as it needs to be and maybe then some. No 21st century built aircraft should have such a troubled safety record as the 737 MAX so early in its life.

FAA will probably let US carriers carry customers first. Other civil aviation regulators will take their time and will rightfully no longer take the FAA's approval at face value.

This doesn't even begin to address the sheer paranoia the typical uninformed traveler will have about the 737 family (not just max) and maybe even Boeing in general, drip fed by mass media.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:15 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Meh, the mistake they're "admitting" to is "consistency" in communication.... which is not really saying much, and thus arguably questionable that they're saying anything at all. I guess some genius in Crisis Management thinks this is a good idea.

For legal/liability reasons, no one should expect them to admit much of anything.

And all that aside:
I can't comprehend how this CEO still has his job, especially the way the stock price has been going since February.


Dennis had nothing to do with the Max design. He was President of BDS at the time. Only fault he has in this issue is arguably not handling it very well initially.

I’ve written other posts where I’ve vented my spleen about the awful leadership Boeing has had for so long. Everybody at Boeing is so tired of how poorly the company has been run for so long. Harry and Jim McSlimeball ran the company into the ground for their own gain. Phil meant well, but was an unstable incompetent goon. Harry and Phil cheated on their wives while in positions of Boeing leadership, so that says a lot about their moral character.

Quite honestly, I think Dennis is the best CEO that Boeing has had in 25 years. I think he deserves a chance. He got this Max crisis dumped in his lap.

What, do you want to see Dennis fired and be replaced by another greedy slimeball like Jim McSlimeball?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9527
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:17 pm

h1fl1er wrote:
chiad wrote:
Quote: "The FAA says Boeing's troubled 737 Max may not fly again until December"
Yikes


faa gonna punish them for making faa look foolish


Based on the entire beginning to end of this MAX debacle that we have seen so far, Boeing should be put through the ringer. I’m not saying that certification should be delayed, but IMH - and not so objective - O, they should fave very large fines, very large settlements, and a number of heads to roll. Basically, anything that can be thrown at them - throw it. If it’s found that internal communications showed pressure on anyone to just push this MCAS implementation through to appease Wall Street, WN, or anyone else, I hope they get some serious jail time.

I’m not a lawyer nor ami a regulator. I’m just someone with family and friends who work for and/or depend on Boeing’s work and reputation for their livelihood/retirement and they don’t deserve to have this stain on them. The folks who died certainly didn’t deserve it. The shareholders of other airlines who are suffering due to MAX delays as well as possible public perception of their chosen narrowbody - well, it just shouldn’t have had to happen.

I know there are folks who will call it an honest mistake or oversight. I probably will personally never accept that excuse. Their attitude following each crash has been arrogant and repugnant. I hope that they take it in the shorts so this never happens again.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
rigo
Posts: 160
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Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:21 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Meh, the mistake they're "admitting" to is "consistency" in communication.... which is not really saying much, and thus arguably questionable that they're saying anything at all. I guess some genius in Crisis Management thinks this is a good idea.

For legal/liability reasons, no one should expect them to admit much of anything.

And all that aside:
I can't comprehend how this CEO still has his job, especially the way the stock price has been going since February.


So under this CEO's watch hundred of people died, but what we should care about is stock price?!?!?!?
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12323
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Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:23 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Dennis had nothing to do with the Max design.
BoeingGuy wrote:
He got this Max crisis dumped in his lap.

...he's not there to complain about how (un)fair the situation may be; he's there to lead through it, while keeping the company's primary objective ---its value to shareholders--- intact.

That's currently not happening.

The shares have plummeted over the last 5 months and show no sign of recovery, especially in light of near-weekly bad news for this disastrous -MAX program. It is beyond shocking that investors have thus far been this patient with him.



BoeingGuy wrote:
Harry and Phil cheated on their wives while in positions of Boeing leadership, so that says a lot about their moral character.

And you think shareholders give a dripping squirt of ducksh!t about that??? :lol: :lol: :lol:



BoeingGuy wrote:
What, do you want to see Dennis fired and be replaced by another greedy slimeball like Jim McSlimeball?

ANSWER: Yes, if Jim can legally keep the stock where it should be. Next question?


rigo wrote:
So under this CEO's watch hundred of people died, but what we should care about is stock price?!?!?!?

So in other words, you don't understand how corporations work. Got it.

Because emotional appeals, ain't it. They exist for one reason: maximize value, within the confines of the law.
As far as they're concerned, that death toll is a number on an insurance claim, and a liability for wrongful death suits.

Harsh. Arguably immoral. Irrefutably accurate.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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tenHangar
Posts: 15
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Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:27 pm

Not good enough. The CEO has reduced this to sorry for a miscommunication about a safety light.
"We clearly had a mistake in the implementation of the alert"
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6264
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:29 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
h1fl1er wrote:
chiad wrote:
Quote: "The FAA says Boeing's troubled 737 Max may not fly again until December"
Yikes


faa gonna punish them for making faa look foolish


Based on the entire beginning to end of this MAX debacle that we have seen so far, Boeing should be put through the ringer. I’m not saying that certification should be delayed, but IMH - and not so objective - O, they should fave very large fines, very large settlements, and a number of heads to roll. Basically, anything that can be thrown at them - throw it. If it’s found that internal communications showed pressure on anyone to just push this MCAS implementation through to appease Wall Street, WN, or anyone else, I hope they get some serious jail time.

I’m not a lawyer nor ami a regulator. I’m just someone with family and friends who work for and/or depend on Boeing’s work and reputation for their livelihood/retirement and they don’t deserve to have this stain on them. The folks who died certainly didn’t deserve it. The shareholders of other airlines who are suffering due to MAX delays as well as possible public perception of their chosen narrowbody - well, it just shouldn’t have had to happen.

I know there are folks who will call it an honest mistake or oversight. I probably will personally never accept that excuse. Their attitude following each crash has been arrogant and repugnant. I hope that they take it in the shorts so this never happens again.


I agree with your points and understand your point of view.

However, to be fair I do want to point out a fact that is often lost in all this drama.

Boeing began working on the software fix for MCAS the day after the Lion Air accident. That was directed by management. It’s not they just sat their hands and did nothing - not behind doors at least. It’s very unfortunate that Ethiopian had to happen - or any accident happened - but the safety problem was identified and key people were directed to drop what they were doing and begin developing a fix almost immediately after the first accident.

In fact, many people believe that if the only thing that had happened where the near-accident the day before the Lion Air crash, that most likely would have resulted in an internal safety determination and fix being developed. Obviously, everyone wishes this is what had realty happened.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6264
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Dennis had nothing to do with the Max design.
BoeingGuy wrote:
He got this Max crisis dumped in his lap.

...he's not there to complain about how (un)fair the situation may be; he's there to lead through it, while keeping the company's primary objective ---its value to shareholders--- intact.

That's currently not happening.

The shares have plummeted over the last 5 months and show no sign of recovery, especially in light of near-weekly bad news for this disastrous -MAX program. It is beyond shocking that investors have thus far been this patient with him.



BoeingGuy wrote:
Harry and Phil cheated on their wives while in positions of Boeing leadership, so that says a lot about their moral character.

And you think shareholders give a dripping squirt of ducksh!t about that??? :lol: :lol: :lol:



BoeingGuy wrote:
What, do you want to see Dennis fired and be replaced by another greedy slimeball like Jim McSlimeball?

ANSWER: Yes, if Jim can legally keep the stock where it should be. Next question?


rigo wrote:
So under this CEO's watch hundred of people died, but what we should care about is stock price?!?!?!?

So in other words, you don't understand how corporations work. Got it.

Because emotional appeals, ain't it. They exist for one reason: maximize value, within the confines of the law.
As far as they're concerned, that death toll is a number on an insurance claim, and a liability for wrongful death suits.

Harsh. Arguably immoral. Irrefutably accurate.


Except that you seem to be missing the point that Jim McSlimeball’s intense focus on stock price is what lead to issues such as MCAS, the 787 battery issue, and KC-46 delays by not properly investing the resources up front. :lol:
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6264
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:33 pm

tenHangar wrote:
Not good enough. The CEO has reduced this to sorry for a miscommunication about a safety light.
"We clearly had a mistake in the implementation of the alert"


The safety light had nothing to do with the accidents. It’s something the media picked up on to make a good story.

It was actually a supplier error, not Boeing. I do agree it should have been properly disclosed though.

None of the EICAS models have a message for AOA Disagree, incidentally.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing fnally admits mistake re Max issues

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:41 pm

Discuss in the existing MAX grounded thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1421471
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.

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