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aryonoco
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:55 pm

Personally, I find this elitist disdainful attitude that some are showing quite off putting.

This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen. It makes the aircraft much more efficient from a CASM perspective, which enables new markets/cheaper tickets.

I love novel seat configurations like these. I like this as much as QF's ultra sparse 789 that does PER-LHR. They both enable market opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:07 pm

jfk777 wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
9 seats per row in an A330 is insane.


Yes, but it's hardly new. FrenchBee, Air Asia X, CebuPacific?


Sounds like a list of airlines to stay away from.


AirTransat A310 (Three-Ten) as well as A330s also have 9-abreast
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Aceskywalker
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:11 pm

That's a lot of people in an A339. I thought that 5J was eyeing service to North America, or even just Hawaii. Wonder if a high density neo could make it without compromises.
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:17 pm

aryonoco wrote:
Personally, I find this elitist disdainful attitude that some are showing quite off putting.

This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen. It makes the aircraft much more efficient from a CASM perspective, which enables new markets/cheaper tickets.

I love novel seat configurations like these. I like this as much as QF's ultra sparse 789 that does PER-LHR. They both enable market opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.


Are you going to be at the head of the line to buy a ticket on the longest possible flight in the center seat of a row that has a row in front of you? Let's see how you feel about that sardine-can experience after that :lol:

I look forward to reading your trip report.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:28 pm

460 people on an A330 is more people than some A380s are configured to hold. The thought of that is insane!
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:02 am

DFWuser wrote:
In comparison, KE configures its A380s with 407 seats total. Let that sink in.

And look where youngish A380s are going..... :white: ..... :wave:


aryonoco wrote:
This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen.

A minor correction...it's 5J putting in the 460 seats in the A339..... :crowded:


Aceskywalker wrote:
That's a lot of people in an A339. I thought that 5J was eyeing service to North America, or even just Hawaii. Wonder if a high density neo could make it without compromises.

I assume the deal would fall through if an A339 configured thusly couldn't at least make it from HNL to MNL reliably...or should not pass the certification hurdle. :indifferent:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
aryonoco
Posts: 680
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:33 am

aeromoe wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
Personally, I find this elitist disdainful attitude that some are showing quite off putting.

This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen. It makes the aircraft much more efficient from a CASM perspective, which enables new markets/cheaper tickets.

I love novel seat configurations like these. I like this as much as QF's ultra sparse 789 that does PER-LHR. They both enable market opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.


Are you going to be at the head of the line to buy a ticket on the longest possible flight in the center seat of a row that has a row in front of you? Let's see how you feel about that sardine-can experience after that :lol:

I look forward to reading your trip report.


No I'm not, but I'm also not 5J's target customer. I'm a 5'11 male with an above-average income living in a developed western country. 5J is a LCC catering to lower-income people in a developing country.

This lowers CASM, which enables 5J to offer lower ticket prices or compete on routes it otherwise couldn't. It allows a domestic expat working in Doha to save $100 on her ticket, which is $100 more for her to spend on other life necessities. It allows an aspiring young Filipino family to dream of a holiday in Hawaii where they otherwise couldn't.

Deriding a config because you don't like it and don't think it's suitable is elitist. Plenty of people would gladly give up a couple of inches in pitch and a couple of inches in seat width for 5-6 hours if it means savings on air fare, especially in a country with a GDP per capita of less than $3,000 USD.
 
aryonoco
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:36 am

Devilfish wrote:

aryonoco wrote:
This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen.

A minor correction...it's 5J putting in the 460 seats in the A339..... :crowded:



My mistake, it's 5J and not PR.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:13 am

AWACSooner wrote:
I've gotta ask...because this really worries me...how on earth will they be able to SAFELY evac an aircraft with that capacity in a reasonable amount of time? I'm fearing that all these capacity increases with seat pitch decreases is going to lead to scores of people dying in a smoke filled aircraft evacuation because of the limited space with more people occupying it.


In theory, everyone can get out of the plane within 90 seconds.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 am

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
460 people on an A330 is more people than some A380s are configured to hold. The thought of that is insane!


Japanese have some of their 787 that have fewer seats then a typical 738/A320.
So you think flying a typical 738/320 is insane?
 
hz747300
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 am

jfk777 wrote:
500 seats in a A330, who are the passengers, Dwarfs ? Just because it can be done should it be done ? 9 seats per row in an A330 is insane.


I was surprised when I booked a family holiday from HK to go to select seats and see 3x3x3... It's cramped.
Keep on truckin'...
 
MaksFly
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:36 am

aryonoco wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
Personally, I find this elitist disdainful attitude that some are showing quite off putting.

This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen. It makes the aircraft much more efficient from a CASM perspective, which enables new markets/cheaper tickets.

I love novel seat configurations like these. I like this as much as QF's ultra sparse 789 that does PER-LHR. They both enable market opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.


Are you going to be at the head of the line to buy a ticket on the longest possible flight in the center seat of a row that has a row in front of you? Let's see how you feel about that sardine-can experience after that :lol:

I look forward to reading your trip report.


No I'm not, but I'm also not 5J's target customer. I'm a 5'11 male with an above-average income living in a developed western country. 5J is a LCC catering to lower-income people in a developing country.

This lowers CASM, which enables 5J to offer lower ticket prices or compete on routes it otherwise couldn't. It allows a domestic expat working in Doha to save $100 on her ticket, which is $100 more for her to spend on other life necessities. It allows an aspiring young Filipino family to dream of a holiday in Hawaii where they otherwise couldn't.

Deriding a config because you don't like it and don't think it's suitable is elitist. Plenty of people would gladly give up a couple of inches in pitch and a couple of inches in seat width for 5-6 hours if it means savings on air fare, especially in a country with a GDP per capita of less than $3,000 USD.


THIS!

I think it is generally a western thing to worry about seat upgrades and seating pitch...
To AV geeks and frequent flyers who spend A LOT of time in the air and for whom travel is part of the deal, rather than a means to get there... I can certainly see us picking flights based on comfort.

For the VAST majority of the flying public, and especially world wide..., a flight is just a flight to get somewhere. Most would likely spend more money to upgrade their rental car or their hotel room, where they are going to spend more time, than an 8 hour flight.

Heck, even personally, while travelling for business or when my travel is paid for, I will pick flights based on my preferred airline for miles and status (Delta), and select flights based on equipment flown and seats avail... cost is not the top priority.
BUT when I fly out to Vegas once or twice per year on my own dime... the last few times... it was Spirit with their sub $100 fares from the East Coast.
Did I care? Nope... because I saved a few hundred dollars for a few hours... and flying in exit row... was even better than on domestics. Only issue was lack of wifi.
 
PR77W
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:39 am

aryonoco wrote:
Devilfish wrote:

aryonoco wrote:
This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen.

A minor correction...it's 5J putting in the 460 seats in the A339..... :crowded:



My mistake, it's 5J and not PR.


Actually PR those have 9-Abreast A333 in there fleet previously all of there new A333 where 9-abreast until 2017 when they refurbished 8 back to 8-Abreast seats although 7 remain with 9-abreast and so far no plans yet to refurbished those especially they are mainly use for flights to ME region.
 
Antarius
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:45 am

First there was a bus
Image

Now we have the equivalent Airbus.

But seriously, this is fascinating. 460 seats evacuated in 90 seconds with half the exits. Impressive!
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Strato2
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:47 am

Absolutely horrible aircraft right there and even beyond the usual cramped "Boeing standard". The only good thing is that unlike 777 and 787 this is still an anomaly.
 
AlexBrewster03
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:34 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
460 people on an A330 is more people than some A380s are configured to hold. The thought of that is insane!


Japanese have some of their 787 that have fewer seats then a typical 738/A320.
So you think flying a typical 738/320 is insane?


I think the thought of how JAL has configured some of their 787s is crazy. I mean personally i love it because its unique. I have no problem with how most carriers configure their narrowbodies such as the 738 and A320. It’s the industry norm
 
Jomar777
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:06 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
However they do it, that is fantastic


The Expression "Sardine Can" comes to mind...
 
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cv990Coronado
Posts: 381
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:45 am

Not sure how many here have flown an A330 in 9 abreast? I have flown on SAA's A300's (same width as A330) in 9 abreast years ago, it is tight but not unbearable.
The saving in fares will be VERY important to the hard-working Phillipino diaspora and will open new travel opportunities to the up and coming middle class.
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tommy1808
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 am

cv990Coronado wrote:
Not sure how many here have flown an A330 in 9 abreast? I have flown on SAA's A300's (same width as A330) in 9 abreast years ago, it is tight but not unbearable..


its like an economy seat in an CRJ..... plenty of people accept those too, and there used to be/still are some fairly long CRJ flights.... of course not long haul long.

At least flying on an 8 abreast Airbus will not put a hole in your pockets the same way the going from Y to PE will. So, don´t like it, don´t buy it.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Begues
Posts: 89
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:35 am

jfk777 wrote:
500 seats in a A330, who are the passengers, Dwarfs ? Just because it can be done should it be done ? 9 seats per row in an A330 is insane.


Average filipino is about 5 feet tall and weight around 100 pounds. Average american is about 6 feet tall and weight in excess of 200 pounds.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:10 pm

hitower3 wrote:
Holy moly, they are taking "high density" to new levels.
On the other end of the scale, you can find Swiss who configures the A330-300 with 219 seats - less than half!
Hendric


I thought that was their A340s, with the A330s having 236. (Both -300 variant.) But you want low density? NH has some B77Ws with just 212 seats in the highest premium-heavy configuration that has Y.

Now, as for this, I’m not sure of their FA rule, but wouldn’t that push this to 10 FA? Their current A333s are Y436, 4 below the exit door limit. Lion Air is at the exit door limit. I would hope that 5J is going for a 251t MTOW here.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:28 pm

aryonoco wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
aryonoco wrote:
Personally, I find this elitist disdainful attitude that some are showing quite off putting.

This is a fantastic idea and well done to PR and Airbus for making it happen. It makes the aircraft much more efficient from a CASM perspective, which enables new markets/cheaper tickets.

I love novel seat configurations like these. I like this as much as QF's ultra sparse 789 that does PER-LHR. They both enable market opportunities that wouldn't otherwise exist.


Are you going to be at the head of the line to buy a ticket on the longest possible flight in the center seat of a row that has a row in front of you? Let's see how you feel about that sardine-can experience after that :lol:

I look forward to reading your trip report.


No I'm not, but I'm also not 5J's target customer. I'm a 5'11 male with an above-average income living in a developed western country. 5J is a LCC catering to lower-income people in a developing country.

This lowers CASM, which enables 5J to offer lower ticket prices or compete on routes it otherwise couldn't. It allows a domestic expat working in Doha to save $100 on her ticket, which is $100 more for her to spend on other life necessities. It allows an aspiring young Filipino family to dream of a holiday in Hawaii where they otherwise couldn't.

Deriding a config because you don't like it and don't think it's suitable is elitist. Plenty of people would gladly give up a couple of inches in pitch and a couple of inches in seat width for 5-6 hours if it means savings on air fare, especially in a country with a GDP per capita of less than $3,000 USD.


+1

Excellent further points on this
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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Devilfish
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:44 pm

hitower3 wrote:
Holy moly, they are taking "high density" to new levels. On the other end of the scale, you can find Swiss who configures the A330-300 with 219 seats - less than half!

For perspective...Swiss serves a country with a very rich population of less than 10 million people and the depository of most of the world's wealth...while 5J caters to a poor country with more than a 100 million people. :roll:


Antarius wrote:
But seriously, this is fascinating. 460 seats evacuated in 90 seconds with half the exits. Impressive!

Flightglobal says doors 2 and 4 positions are modified. They did not give exact details except to say.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 30-459203/

Quote:
"This requires the A330-900 to be fitted with four pairs of Type A exits. Airbus says these provide emergency exit capability for 110 passengers.

But FlightGlobal understands that Airbus is developing a 'Type A-plus' exit for the A350, which increases this figure to 120.

The A330-900 would have the modified exits installed at the 'door 2' and 'door 4' positions, hiking the authorised capacity.

Airbus has not indicated whether an evacuation test, or simulated evacuation, would be required to validate the change."



aemoreira1981 wrote:
Their current A333s are Y436, 4 below the exit door limit. Lion Air is at the exit door limit. I would hope that 5J is going for a 251t MTOW here.

They better :!: :yes:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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Slash787
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:52 pm

I would like to see an A380 with 1200 seats.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:07 pm

Begues wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
500 seats in a A330, who are the passengers, Dwarfs ? Just because it can be done should it be done ? 9 seats per row in an A330 is insane.


Average filipino is about 5 feet tall and weight around 100 pounds. Average american is about 6 feet tall and weight in excess of 200 pounds.


This is actually interesting.
"The average height of adult Filipinos 20 yrs and older is 163 cm for males and 151.4 cm for females, while the average weight for males is 61.3 kgs and for females is 54.3 kgs"
http://122.53.86.125/NNS/8thNNS.pdf

Meanwhile in America: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

Men:
Height in inches: 69.0 (175.26cm)
Weight in pounds: 197.8 (89.7kg)

Women:
Height in inches: 63.6 (161.54cm)
Weight in pounds: 170.5 (77.1kg)

So the weight difference is almost 1.5 times between Filipino and American. So even if works in Philippines it certainly doesn't work in the US.
But then I weigh less than average Filipino men and... I don't know how I would feel on 9-abreast A330.
9-abreast B787 felt narrower but was doable.
 
GalebG4
Topic Author
Posts: 241
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Re: Airbus a330-900 460 seats

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:22 pm

When it comes to seat comfort, my personal opinion is that 16.4in seat width isn’t much of a difference as 17in seat with which is more less industry standard from the begging of jet age. 0.6in or 15mm(two iPhone side depth {7mm+7mm=14mm}) difference isn’t that big of a deal for seat width. 30in seat pitch with slim seats is more than enough of leg space. So yes, 9 abreast configuration in my opinion is not a problem at all.

When it comes to airline product, my personal opinion is that you as a buyer should choose product that you are going to buy. “Don’t buy it if you hate it”.
9 abreast a330 seat configuration is being used as long as airbus existed. Remember Monarch a300, Laker a300, Air Transat a310 and today Air Transat a330 which is being used for nearly 20 years in North American market (biggest western market).

For me 460 seats configuration was surprise because of old 440 seats exit door limit.

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