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PlaneMad134
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IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:02 pm

IAG have signed a letter of intent for 200 B737 Max and some will be destined for BA, good news for Boeing and IAG.
 
musman9853
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:05 pm

really surprised at any max orders right now. honestly expected them to be announced after the grounding is over and it's out of the public eye
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
VV
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:16 pm

PlaneMad134 wrote:
IAG have signed a letter of intent for 200 B737 Max and some will be destined for BA, good news for Boeing and IAG.


IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.
 
dcajet
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:21 pm

VV wrote:
IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.


And one that knows how to get a very meaningful discount from Boeing...
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
VV
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:23 pm

dcajet wrote:
VV wrote:
IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.


And one that knows how to get a very meaningful discount from Boeing...


You would be surprised by how expensive 737 MAX are.

In addition the guys in Seattle are quite disciplined managing the backlog thus protecting 737's value in the long run.
Last edited by VV on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
VS11
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:24 pm

Smart move by IAG. Getting Vueling and Level ready to battle it out in Europe.
 
AirbusA6
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:25 pm

Very surprised, seeing that IAG is basically A320 operator, indeed they don't even have any 737NGs?

Brave timing too...
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PlymSpotter
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:27 pm

An astonishing development, considering the timing and customer.

Congratulations to the Boeing commercial team .
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ikolkyo
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:28 pm

I bet they have some very nice delivery slots locked in with the Jet Airways cancellations.
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:31 pm

musman9853 wrote:
really surprised at any max orders right now. honestly expected them to be announced after the grounding is over and it's out of the public eye


Do you really think an airline group making an investment of this magnitude, with a 25 year potential ownership duration, cares about 6 months of bad publicity at the moment?
I can't imagine any large business being short sighted in that regard.
I doubt it even came up as a concern.

The MAX is going to make them a lot of money over the long run, long after all of this is forgotten.
Last edited by BlatantEcho on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
RawSushi
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:34 pm

The truth is in the price, which obviously won't be public knowledge.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:35 pm

Wow, didn't see that coming at all, with all of the IAG airlines flying A32Xs and A32Xneos already. Massive order in every sense.
 
BAorAB
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:36 pm

So even in their darkest times Boeing manages to outsell Airbus by about $100M in the first 2 days! LOL


Who saw this coming?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

To add insult to injury, most of IAG narrow body fleet had been Airbus A320 in recent decades. Great wrestle back for Boeing!
 
Blerg
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:37 pm

I am sure IAG protected itself with certain clauses in case these mechanical issues are not resolved. After all, isn't LOI just a letter of intent without actual confirmation of the order?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:40 pm

VV wrote:
dcajet wrote:
VV wrote:
IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.


And one that knows how to get a very meaningful discount from Boeing...


You would be surprised by how expensive 737 MAX are.

In addition the guys in Seattle are quite disciplined managing the backlog thus protecting 737's value in the long run.

For this large an order at this time required a discount. IAG could easily wait until post the airshow and wouldn't have cared. Badic game theory says Boeing had to incentivise to stop the bad press.

I think the MAX is great and I'll fly on one in a heartbeat. I'll have my kids join. I'm also a test engineer who knows how to quantify risk and reduce it.

FWIW, I'm certain within 6 months of EIS Boeing will PIP the marketing to 737Ultimate or anything other than 737MAX. But we have another thread on that.

Lightsaber
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KlimaBXsst
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:41 pm

Nice shot in the arm for Boeing.

1) Price
2) Trade in options
3) Early delivery spots

All have already been said, considering the 37 is not in the IAG fleet mix thus far. Quite a Boeing coup.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
airzona11
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:42 pm

IAG as a group is like all other large airlines / groups. They operate a mixed fleet of nearly all types. Will be a great win for Boeing. I am not sure this is really even a blow for Airbus, the A320 family is selling like hotcakes. Airlines are not proBoeing or Airbus, the reality is the arbitrage that they get from a mixed fleet keeps the purchase price down and even more so, each plane excels in different areas. They are compliments. The largest / most profitable airlines in the world operate them side by side. Can't wait to see images!
 
DCA350
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 pm

Absolutely stunning!!!!! This is as big as when ordered American A320s.. IAG must have gotten a Ryanair type deal.
 
nickllhill
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 pm

Am I being silly in thinking.. These can’t go to BA at Heathrow as they can’t take containers?
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:45 pm

BAorAB wrote:
So even in their darkest times Boeing manages to outsell Airbus by about $100M in the first 2 days! LOL


Who saw this coming?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium

To add insult to injury, most of IAG narrow body fleet had been Airbus A320 in recent decades. Great wrestle back for Boeing!


Since the order isn't firm, not quite.
 
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Polot
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:46 pm

The meltdowns about this LOI are worth it alone. IAG LOI is best in show.
Last edited by Polot on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Some people are clearly emotionally distraught that the MAX got a big order. At the end of the day it’s an excellent aircraft made by a company who has been in the business for a long time. Some of you clearly must have thought Boeing and the MAX seas simply going to rollover and die. It will most definitely not be the case.
 
Galwayman
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:48 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Absolutely stunning!!!!! This is as big as when ordered American A320s.. IAG must have gotten a Ryanair type deal.


Yes it’s got to be the best bargain since O’leary’s Post 9/11 deal. IAG probably got to name its own price
 
marcelh
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:49 pm

airzona11 wrote:
IAG as a group is like all other large airlines / groups. They operate a mixed fleet of nearly all types. Will be a great win for Boeing. I am not sure this is really even a blow for Airbus, the A320 family is selling like hotcakes. Airlines are not proBoeing or Airbus, the reality is the arbitrage that they get from a mixed fleet keeps the purchase price down and even more so, each plane excels in different areas. They are compliments. The largest / most profitable airlines in the world operate them side by side. Can't wait to see images!

:checkmark:
At least a meaningful post.
 
musman9853
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
really surprised at any max orders right now. honestly expected them to be announced after the grounding is over and it's out of the public eye


Do you really think an airline group making an investment of this magnitude, with a 25 year potential ownership duration, cares about 6 months of bad publicity at the moment?
I can't imagine any large business being short sighted in that regard.
I doubt it even came up as a concern.

The MAX is going to make them a lot of money over the long run, long after all of this is forgotten.


yeah but why not place an unnamed order right now and then announce it in a few months? no reason to risk the bad publicity
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
B747forever
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Absolutely stunning!!!!! This is as big as when ordered American A320s.. IAG must have gotten a Ryanair type deal.


The discount must be really huge on this order. Major A320 operator + first major order for the MAX since the ground = HUGE discount. IAG could probably not resist getting the MAX at such a low price.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
richierich
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm

BlatantEcho wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
really surprised at any max orders right now. honestly expected them to be announced after the grounding is over and it's out of the public eye


Do you really think an airline group making an investment of this magnitude, with a 25 year potential ownership duration, cares about 6 months of bad publicity at the moment?
I can't imagine any large business being short sighted in that regard.
I doubt it even came up as a concern.


Of course it is a concern. A plane with a multitude of issues that is requiring one of the longest periods of grounding of any aircraft ever, second only to the Comet to my knowledge, is a huge concern for all current and future operators of the type. I'm sure the IAG boardroom asked a lot of questions before making this decision.

With that, it is also a great time to make a deal. Get them while they are going cheap...Boeing could, frankly, use some good news and this is one of the first steps back from the darkness that has shadowed the Max program in the past year or so. Okay, maybe that's a tad dramatic, but how much do you think this has cost Boeing in terms of redevelopment, compensatory and goodwill costs? All of the new Max deliveries are sitting on a ramp somewhere; the black eye Boeing has taken with the press, the traveling public, and their customers is simply enormous. I hope and pray that the Max that finally takes to the air again later this year(?) is all the safer and better because of this terrible period for Boeing and all the current operators.
None shall pass!!!!
 
VV
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:52 pm

nickllhill wrote:
Am I being silly in thinking.. These can’t go to BA at Heathrow as they can’t take containers?


Why are people so obsessed by containers on single aisle aircraft. Get over it.
Does Ryanair have issues with containers?

Do you know how expensive it is to carry a lot of baggage in Europe?

Damn! Please stop this madness about containers on short haul flights in Europe.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:58 pm

dcajet wrote:
VV wrote:
IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.


And one that knows how to get a very meaningful discount from Boeing...


basically same as Ryanair's case for 738.
BA could even probably re-sell (if the contract with Boeing permit) them at a profit before the plane is being delivered
 
YellowJ
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:59 pm

BA has some of the posters on here shook! :yes:
 
columba
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:01 pm

Wonder if Lufthansa Group will follow IAG/BA, Spohr said similar things as Willie Walsh regarding the 737. I can imagine that it would work well with Eurowings or AUA which so far have no NEOs on order.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
nickllhill
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:01 pm

VV wrote:
nickllhill wrote:
Am I being silly in thinking.. These can’t go to BA at Heathrow as they can’t take containers?


Why are people so obsessed by containers on single aisle aircraft. Get over it.
Does Ryanair have issues with containers?

Do you know how expensive it is to carry a lot of baggage in Europe?

Damn! Please stop this madness about containers on short haul flights in Europe.


I agree with you, my only point is I heard BA were set on this, even going on to sell some non compatible BMI A320s

I guess the big shock (for me at least) that they have opted for this then dropping containers is hardly a stretch.
 
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Polot
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:03 pm

nickllhill wrote:
VV wrote:
nickllhill wrote:
Am I being silly in thinking.. These can’t go to BA at Heathrow as they can’t take containers?


Why are people so obsessed by containers on single aisle aircraft. Get over it.
Does Ryanair have issues with containers?

Do you know how expensive it is to carry a lot of baggage in Europe?

Damn! Please stop this madness about containers on short haul flights in Europe.


I agree with you, my only point is I heard BA were set on this, even going on to sell some non compatible BMI A320s

I guess the big shock (for me at least) that they have opted for this then dropping containers is hardly a stretch.

People here are constantly pushing A220s for IAG (and I agree with them that it would be a great fit). That will also require dropping containers.
 
9Patch
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:03 pm

Leeham has this up on their site:

While it will take a while for a firm contact to be signed, the endorsement by IAG—the first MAX commitment since grounding—demonstrates solid confidence from one of the world’s Blue Chip airlines.

Additionally, IAG’s single aisle aircraft have been exclusively from Airbus with the A320 family. This is a huge customer flip.

Airbus’ A320neo line is sold out well into the next decade.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/06/18/iag-b ... st-to-max/

So something for everybody to crow about.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:03 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
737 operators diversify: Good business sense.
A320 operators diversify: Stupid.

That's been the a.net mantra on this forum since around 2010.

But I digress...

This is a really surprising move from IAG, considering just about all of their carriers are solely Airbus NB operators. Also, I see this as a public shot in the arm for the MAX, which is exactly what Boeing needs right about now.

Congrats to both parties.
 
marcelh
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:05 pm

Well done by IAG and Boeing. Tomorrow AF-KLM?
 
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OA940
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Ah fanboys. Sometime's I'm really glad I'm not one.

Back on topic, this is a humongus order and a huge deal for Boeing. I wonder if that means no more buses for IAG, or if they simply wanted to expand fast and they found convenience in the MAX, with the cancelled orders and Jet going under leaving quite a few empty slots
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Revelation
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Galwayman wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Absolutely stunning!!!!! This is as big as when ordered American A320s.. IAG must have gotten a Ryanair type deal.

Yes it’s got to be the best bargain since O’leary’s Post 9/11 deal. IAG probably got to name its own price

I had a similar reaction.

I bet MOL now regrets some of the vulgar comments he made in the past.

They very well could have cost him the second best deal of his lifetime.
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glideslope
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:15 pm

dcajet wrote:
VV wrote:
IAG is a big group in Europe.

This is a very significant endorsement.


And one that knows how to get a very meaningful discount from Boeing...


The same applies to Airbus. Just sayin........ :wave:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
chonetsao
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:16 pm

I smell the battle for European thrid tier airports. B737 with Ryanair has the self contained stairs so the aircraft does not need ramp staff to push the stairs for passengers loading. Win win for BA's parent IAG and BA(Boeing).
 
VS11
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:17 pm

This order is bad news for literally everyone else who operates short haul flights in Europe. The low price that IAG must be getting is a great competitive advantage. Who would be the casualty when these planes start coming in in 4 years - Wizz, Ryan, easy, Alitalia?
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:18 pm

The discount must have been worth the switch from Airbus. IAG is plenty big enough to manage two fleets anyway.
 
grbauc
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:22 pm

The obsession on this site with some having to put in but they surely gave a huge discount up is so bonkers to me.

Nice job Boeing.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:22 pm

VS11 wrote:
This order is bad news for literally everyone else who operates short haul flights in Europe. The low price that IAG must be getting is a great competitive advantage. Who would be the casualty when these planes start coming in in 4 years - Wizz, Ryan, easy, Alitalia?

I doubt any of them...Ryanair has such a large network and low bottom line that it would take a series of crashes and bad financial moves to drive them under. EasyJet is in the same boat...and WizzAir is almost to that same level (albeit mostly in Eastern Europe). Alitalia will be bailed out by the government of Italy until the end of time.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:23 pm

Wow, like some others on here I certainly didn’t see this coming!

Assuming it’s across the IAG group, it’ll be interesting to see how this fits into BA for example given they’ve got neo’s in the fleet already and more on order. Could LGW be a candidate to become a MAX base to replace some/all the A319/320’s there given it’s non-containerised and, to all intents and purposes, a self-contained operation?

Whatever the reason (my hunch is that in light of the recent groundings an offer too good to turn down was made), it’s exactly the sort of lift Boeing need at this time. I’m not worried about the future of the A320 series in the IAG fold though given the current neo’s in the fleet/on order and the other order placed today for A321XLR’s for Aer Lingus and Iberia.
 
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qf789
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Could we please just debate the topic without the flamebait or provoking other users. All posts must also contribute constructively otherwise they will be removed. If you want to comment on the grounding discuss it in the relevant thread. Some of the comments have been quite appalling and warnings have been handed out
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x1234
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

With the MASSIVE range of the B737Max7 (7100km full payload), this can fly low volume routes in EMEA as far as DXB, LOS, ACC, GYD, IKA, etc. Basically BA now has a narrow-body for routes that previously required a wide-body.
Example routes: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LHR-ISB;+L ... PVD;&DU=km

I sense Europe, Middle East, Africa & Mid-West/East Coast USA/Canada expansion.
Last edited by x1234 on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:25 pm

OA940 wrote:
Ah fanboys. Sometime's I'm really glad I'm not one.

Back on topic, this is a humongus order and a huge deal for Boeing. I wonder if that means no more buses for IAG, or if they simply wanted to expand fast and they found convenience in the MAX, with the cancelled orders and Jet going under leaving quite a few empty slots


Like I said, I don’t see this as Airbuses falling out of favour all of a sudden, otherwise they wouldn’t have ordered some A321XLR’s today for Aer Lingus and Iberia.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:27 pm

x1234 wrote:
With the MASSIVE range of the B737Max7 (7100km full payload), this can fly low volume routes in EMEA as far as DXB, LOS, ACC, GYD, IKA, etc. Basically BA now has a narrow-body for routes that previously required a wide-body.
Example routes: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LHR-ISB;+L ... PVD;&DU=km


It’s ready been said its a MAX 8 and MAX 10. I doubt any high profile customer will be order any MAX 7 anytime soon, if ever from here on out. Same goes for the MAX 9 too I guess now.
 
findingnema
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Re: IAG sign LOI for 200 B737 Max

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:27 pm

VV wrote:
nickllhill wrote:
Am I being silly in thinking.. These can’t go to BA at Heathrow as they can’t take containers?


Why are people so obsessed by containers on single aisle aircraft. Get over it.
Does Ryanair have issues with containers?

Do you know how expensive it is to carry a lot of baggage in Europe?

Damn! Please stop this madness about containers on short haul flights in Europe.


Unless anything has changed in the last three years since I worked there, all baggage at T5 was containerised. Perhaps it has changed but considering the investment involved, I doubt it. The containerised baggage was the reason that certain types, including examples inherited from other airlines (like bmi) have always been used at T1 and T3. So not madness or obsession about containers per your post, but more a logistic issue since the opening of T5. Would assume that this is why BA is saying that the Max is for their Gatwick Fleet and their low cost operations (vueling fly to T3 at LHR, Level do not fly there).
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