Gulfstream500
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Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:39 pm

Cape air’s orders for the Eviation Alice announced at Paris air show. To be delivered in 2022 with cape air as launch customer, with a “double digit” number ordered.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... tomer.html
What's the deal with airplane food?

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Dominion301
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:07 pm

Pretty significant milestone. Harbour Air's gas to electric converstion and now this, the launch of a commercial electric aircraft.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:54 pm

What happened to the Tecnam P2012 order Cape Air had?
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jworks158
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:11 pm

rajincajun01 wrote:
What happened to the Tecnam P2012 order Cape Air had?


I have been looking into this over the last few weeks, as the goal was to take the first few this spring. It appears (but I can't confirm either way) that it has been delayed awaiting FAA certification.
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:32 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Pretty significant milestone. Harbour Air's gas to electric converstion and now this, the launch of a commercial electric aircraft.


My hunch is Cape Air will only use these frames on very shorts flights, like the Hyannis to Nantucket flights.
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Gulfstream500
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:39 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Pretty significant milestone. Harbour Air's gas to electric converstion and now this, the launch of a commercial electric aircraft.


My hunch is Cape Air will only use these frames on very shorts flights, like the Hyannis to Nantucket flights.


They’ll probably take them in the Caribbean as well. Some flights are under 100 miles, so it would be perfect.
What's the deal with airplane food?

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Biscayne738
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:46 pm

Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:50 pm

They do have a fancy website, I’ll say that. Even under Part 23, a new design with untested propulsion , indeed without a certification basis, that hasn’t flown yet—certification in two years is pipedream.

GF
 
Dominion301
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:53 pm

Biscayne738 wrote:
Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...


Good question. The trade-off, is maintenance costs will be very low, so having say 2 aircraft on a route, with 1 charging at any given time, will probably cost about the same as 1 gas powered aircraft. The supercharger technology for EVs is advancing at a rapid pace. I'd imagine the same technology can be applied to EAs (electric aircraft...new acronym lol).
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:03 pm

This is absolutely huge and very welcome news for electric aviation.

Regional aviation is going to transform beyond recognition in the new decade or two.
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usxguy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:06 pm

Mokulele is supposed to be testing an electric-powered aircraft on Kahului-Hana sometime later this year.
xx
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Biscayne738 wrote:
Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...


Good question. The trade-off, is maintenance costs will be very low, so having say 2 aircraft on a route, with 1 charging at any given time, will probably cost about the same as 1 gas powered aircraft. The supercharger technology for EVs is advancing at a rapid pace. I'd imagine the same technology can be applied to EAs (electric aircraft...new acronym lol).[/quote]

The aircraft can get a full charge for a 1 hour flight in 30 minutes (about turn-around time). Long flights can be done in the morning.
What's the deal with airplane food?

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N766UA
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:59 pm

LOL 2022, yeah right. The P2012 was called the “2012” for a reason, and look how that turned out.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:03 pm

One of the dumbest ideas in recent years.
 
xdlx
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:24 pm

N766UA wrote:
LOL 2022, yeah right. The P2012 was called the “2012” for a reason, and look how that turned out.


Has anyone seen one in CAPE AIR colors?
 
N766UA
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:42 pm

Dan Wolf is obsessed with 2 things: Floatplanes, and electric power. It’s my opinion that the high-paying business travelers the floatplanes will cater to are going to quickly realize it’s utterly unreliable in the northeast’s weather, and that idea will go poof. Add in brand new, untested tech like an all-electric plane to the mix? Quite the gamble for an airline that’s been effectively status quo for 30 years.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:53 pm

Given that Tesla vehicles catch on fire in what seems to be a monthly basis, this is a recipe for disaster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE9b_EC874g

I wonder if Cape officials approached Piper about a replacement for their Cessna aircraft.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:56 pm

Good news. The 1988 Technology bubble introduced by the A320-200 might be starting to finally buckle.
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PC12Fan
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:13 am

N766UA wrote:
LOL 2022, yeah right. The P2012 was called the “2012” for a reason, and look how that turned out.


Pray tell, how did that turn out.
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Danielator36
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:47 am

Should this all go through, could this open up tons of small routes that aren't even considered right now? There were plenty of towns that were cut in the 2000s because they were only filling 19-seaters, but could these lower operating costs make cities like these profitable again?
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:01 am

This is awesome! Hopefully a boost to the market and segment that increases innovation even further.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:41 am

Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:53 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/



Siemens unloads their electric aircraft division to Rolls Royce today.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-sells-e ... lls-royce/

price ?
 
Babyshark
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:43 am

crjflyboy wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/



Siemens unloads their electric aircraft division to Rolls Royce today.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-sells-e ... lls-royce/

price ?


$1

/s

Could this be something that works if at each destination all the batteries are replaced? Might not be feasible for part 91 but for Cape Air it could work. Although a V1 cut with that set up looks to be a disaster

Or how about put those engines on their 402s?
Last edited by Babyshark on Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:52 am

Not keen to fly one, for like the first time in my aviation history. It makes me very nervous.
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crjflyboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:56 am

Babyshark wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/



Siemens unloads their electric aircraft division to Rolls Royce today.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-sells-e ... lls-royce/

price ?


$1

/s

Could this be something that works if at each destination all the batteries are replaced? Might not be feasible for part 91 but for Cape Air it could work.

Or how about put those engines on their 402s?


8,000 pounds of batteries changed between flights ?

You can't be serious ….
 
Babyshark
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:


Siemens unloads their electric aircraft division to Rolls Royce today.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-sells-e ... lls-royce/

price ?


$1

/s

Could this be something that works if at each destination all the batteries are replaced? Might not be feasible for part 91 but for Cape Air it could work.

Or how about put those engines on their 402s?


8,000 pounds of batteries changed between flights ?

You can't be serious ….


Well let's see here. Do you think they put thousands of pounds of fuel in a plane by hand? Or do you think they use a machine? Where there's a will there's a way.

But wow a Cessna 402 doesn't even weigh that much. That's a lot of coal power to keep that thing aloft.

But how else you going to keep this thing flying 12 times a day to pay off a $4M frame? Looks like this is just a gimmick.
Last edited by Babyshark on Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:28 am

Babyshark wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Babyshark wrote:

$1

/s

Could this be something that works if at each destination all the batteries are replaced? Might not be feasible for part 91 but for Cape Air it could work.

Or how about put those engines on their 402s?


8,000 pounds of batteries changed between flights ?

You can't be serious ….


Wow a Cessna 402 doesn't even weigh that much. That's a lot of coal power to keep that thing aloft.

But how else you going to keep this thing flying 12 times a day to pay off a $4M frame?


That's why some of us think the entire notion is preposterous .... If Cape actually placed money upfront to secure the order for this thing, that would be even more absurd
 
Babyshark
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:30 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Babyshark wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

8,000 pounds of batteries changed between flights ?

You can't be serious ….


Wow a Cessna 402 doesn't even weigh that much. That's a lot of coal power to keep that thing aloft.

But how else you going to keep this thing flying 12 times a day to pay off a $4M frame?


That's why some of us think the entire notion is preposterous .... If Cape actually placed money upfront to secure the order for this thing, that would be even more absurd


Agreed.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:47 am

The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.
https://www.eviation.co/alice/
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:21 am

crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/


How is this relevant to this thread other than being an electric flying machine that crashed?
@DadCelo
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:44 am

Babyshark wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/



Siemens unloads their electric aircraft division to Rolls Royce today.

https://www.flyer.co.uk/siemens-sells-e ... lls-royce/

price ?


$1

/s

Could this be something that works if at each destination all the batteries are replaced? Might not be feasible for part 91 but for Cape Air it could work. Although a V1 cut with that set up looks to be a disaster

Or how about put those engines on their 402s?


If they were newer frames, this would an okay idea. But, the 402s that they have in service are 40+ years old!
What's the deal with airplane food?

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PlymSpotter
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:23 pm

I understand the scepticism, but I think some posters need to remind themselves that this is new, evolving technology. It isn't likely to be optimal first time around and there will be issues.

Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.
https://www.eviation.co/alice/


Around 3,400kg is being reported actually.
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slider
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:28 pm

There are a lot of ways to look at this. I admire the drive to innovate here, and let’s face it, the 402s aren’t getting any younger. 9K has done a wonderful job operating the world’s largest Cessna fleet and keeping them going, in what are very challenging operating environments, I might add.

But there’s also that infamous ‘bigger picture’ to think about—small community air service. The aircraft options are very limited, so something new is welcome in this space. Question is: is it too much too soon for such new technology in commercial aviation with a small operator? I would think eventual induction on this aircraft would be VERY slow and controlled.

I also appreciate the technological innovation side of this; the research, the manufacturing, the engineering, all of it, would have great benefits. I like the fact that there is a partnership between ERAU-Prescott and Eviation as well.

The bottom line, though, is this is a significant gamble, it’s going to take time, tons of funding, and has to be safe and reliable. But you miss 100% of the shots you never take, as they say.
 
KarlB737
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:47 pm

I put this electric airliner into the same file folder as an airliner with no pilot. I believe the risks put these concepts too far out on the limb to satisfy necessary safety requirements. Look what Boeing has faced just on account of gambling with software to fix a flaw in design. I think electric airliners even on short haul is too much of a gamble especially when lives are at stake.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:24 pm

I don't think Cape Air really thinks they will be flying this in 2 years. I think the P2012 is their near-term future, and this is their long term future. I think they are looking at some of the advantages of the design and technology, and realizing many of them will be advantageous to a small airline operating out of small New England Island airports. Business has changed and I think Cape Air is realizing that they have to to. I expect them to start behaving more like a regional now than just servicing two island airports.

This presentation talks more about the aircraft and a few of the capabilities. It will be interesting. https://youtu.be/LsJ0vYnrMxo
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AviationAddict
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:37 pm

cloudboy wrote:
I don't think Cape Air really thinks they will be flying this in 2 years. I think the P2012 is their near-term future, and this is their long term future. I think they are looking at some of the advantages of the design and technology, and realizing many of them will be advantageous to a small airline operating out of small New England Island airports. Business has changed and I think Cape Air is realizing that they have to to. I expect them to start behaving more like a regional now than just servicing two island airports.

This presentation talks more about the aircraft and a few of the capabilities. It will be interesting. https://youtu.be/LsJ0vYnrMxo



https://flights.capeair.com/en/

They already service a lot more than just two islands.

I think it's probably a safe bet that you're right about the P2012 though; it is definitely their short-to-mid-term solution for replacing the C402s and the Islanders. If this new order does actually go through I'd assume it will be a small test fleet that will be used on specific routes and possibly charter flights. And keep in mind that "double digits" could be as little as 10 frames.
 
PartsGuy20
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:43 pm

Speaking of Cape Air and the P2012, does anybody know when they will actually be taking delivery? It was said to have been pushed back due to the government shutdown earlier this year, with expected delivery moved to May, but here it is mid-June and I haven't seen a single one at HYA yet.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:47 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
I understand the scepticism, but I think some posters need to remind themselves that this is new, evolving technology. It isn't likely to be optimal first time around and there will be issues.

Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.
https://www.eviation.co/alice/


Around 3,400kg is being reported actually.


Spot on. The electric propulsion skepticism of 2019 is no doubt the same as the heavier-than-air skepticism of 1903 with the Wright Brothers. Like with any new technology a) there will always be doubters and b) there's this belief that this is as good as it gets.

Here's a concept on there that most people will get: the internet of 2019 is not the internet of 1999, let alone 1995...which was the first time I ever used the world wide web.
Last edited by Dominion301 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:51 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
I don't think Cape Air really thinks they will be flying this in 2 years. I think the P2012 is their near-term future, and this is their long term future. I think they are looking at some of the advantages of the design and technology, and realizing many of them will be advantageous to a small airline operating out of small New England Island airports. Business has changed and I think Cape Air is realizing that they have to to. I expect them to start behaving more like a regional now than just servicing two island airports.

This presentation talks more about the aircraft and a few of the capabilities. It will be interesting. https://youtu.be/LsJ0vYnrMxo



https://flights.capeair.com/en/

They already service a lot more than just two islands.

I think it's probably a safe bet that you're right about the P2012 though; it is definitely their short-to-mid-term solution for replacing the C402s and the Islanders. If this new order does actually go through I'd assume it will be a small test fleet that will be used on specific routes and possibly charter flights. And keep in mind that "double digits" could be as little as 10 frames.


Alternatively, could the P2012 be the 402’s replacement, and the Alice be the Islander’s replacement?

The fleet numbers do (kind of, factoring in expansion) match up. That, and nobody from 9K ever actually said that they are using the P2012 to replace the Islander...
What's the deal with airplane food?

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AviationAddict
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:55 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
I don't think Cape Air really thinks they will be flying this in 2 years. I think the P2012 is their near-term future, and this is their long term future. I think they are looking at some of the advantages of the design and technology, and realizing many of them will be advantageous to a small airline operating out of small New England Island airports. Business has changed and I think Cape Air is realizing that they have to to. I expect them to start behaving more like a regional now than just servicing two island airports.

This presentation talks more about the aircraft and a few of the capabilities. It will be interesting. https://youtu.be/LsJ0vYnrMxo



https://flights.capeair.com/en/

They already service a lot more than just two islands.

I think it's probably a safe bet that you're right about the P2012 though; it is definitely their short-to-mid-term solution for replacing the C402s and the Islanders. If this new order does actually go through I'd assume it will be a small test fleet that will be used on specific routes and possibly charter flights. And keep in mind that "double digits" could be as little as 10 frames.


Alternatively, could the P2012 be the 402’s replacement, and the Alice be the Islander’s replacement?

The fleet numbers do (kind of, factoring in expansion) match up. That, and nobody from 9K ever actually said that they are using the P2012 to replace the Islander...


Yeah that could be a real possibility too.
Last edited by AviationAddict on Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:01 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:


https://flights.capeair.com/en/

They already service a lot more than just two islands.

I think it's probably a safe bet that you're right about the P2012 though; it is definitely their short-to-mid-term solution for replacing the C402s and the Islanders. If this new order does actually go through I'd assume it will be a small test fleet that will be used on specific routes and possibly charter flights. And keep in mind that "double digits" could be as little as 10 frames.


Alternatively, could the P2012 be the 402’s replacement, and the Alice be the Islander’s replacement?

The fleet numbers do (kind of, factoring in expansion) match up. That, and nobody from 9K ever actually said that they are using the P2012 to replace the Islander...


Yeah that could be a very possibility too.


The islanders have quite a few more years left in them than the 402s, too. Most were built in 1990s, so they’ve got plenty of time to replace them (by 9K standards).
What's the deal with airplane food?

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aumaverick
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:10 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/


How is this relevant to this thread other than being an electric flying machine that crashed?


Because the Alice will use 3 Siemens-produced 260-kW electric motors. I'd say the post is very relevant.

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Babyshark
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:36 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
I understand the scepticism, but I think some posters need to remind themselves that this is new, evolving technology. It isn't likely to be optimal first time around and there will be issues.

Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.
https://www.eviation.co/alice/


Around 3,400kg is being reported actually.


Spot on. The electric propulsion skepticism of 2019 is no doubt the same as the heavier-than-air skepticism of 1903 with the Wright Brothers. Like with any new technology a) there will always be doubters and b) there's this belief that this is as good as it gets.

Here's a concept on there that most people will get: the internet of 2019 is not the internet of 1999, let alone 1995...which was the first time I ever used the world wide web.


Reminds me of the whole diesel conversation that had been spinning its wheels since the 90s at least. Some things are not that feasible.
 
Gulfstream500
Topic Author
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:55 pm

aumaverick wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/


How is this relevant to this thread other than being an electric flying machine that crashed?


Because the Alice will use 3 Siemens-produced 260-kW electric motors. I'd say the post is very relevant.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... e-fly-year


The thing with that is, Seimens will have to make improvements, or else they’ll just switch. If the IAE engines didn’t work on the A320, people would just switch to the CFM.

Or, maybe they’ll just stick with the current engines, safe or not. Would be a shame.
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PlymSpotter
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:50 pm

aumaverick wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/


How is this relevant to this thread other than being an electric flying machine that crashed?


Because the Alice will use 3 Siemens-produced 260-kW electric motors. I'd say the post is very relevant.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... e-fly-year


Sure, this was a tragedy. But it doesn't define electric aviation, for the same reason that the hundreds of 'traditional' engine breakdowns / failures which occur every day globally don't define current aviation.

One of the major positives for electric aviation is having fewer moving parts, and fewer components overall. In time, this is anticipated to reduce failure and accident rates.

KarlB737 wrote:
I put this electric airliner into the same file folder as an airliner with no pilot. I believe the risks put these concepts too far out on the limb to satisfy necessary safety requirements. Look what Boeing has faced just on account of gambling with software to fix a flaw in design. I think electric airliners even on short haul is too much of a gamble especially when lives are at stake.


That's comparing apples to oranges. Ultimately the risks involved with electric aviation are, in all probability, going to be lower - as I mention above.

Aviation authorities will expand regulation, as larger electric passenger aircraft approach certification. No doubt they are going to be put through significant scrutiny, as there is so much scepticism around this aspect of flight. But that can only be a good thing.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:17 pm

Biscayne738 wrote:
Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...

Charge time is around ½hr for sectors up to 250 nm, and just over 1hr if you use the full 565nm range.

crjflyboy wrote:
Siemens all electric prototype plane catches fire in the air.... all perish

"all perish" - OMG - how many hundreds of people was this?
Oh yes, just two, the pilot & the single passenger of the two-seater aircraft. :roll:

And where in the report does it state categorically that the aircraft catches fire in the air? Currently that is still just speculation and anonymous witness reports (same as for Ethiopian ET302), whilst Magnus themselves state the crash was "due to yet unknown reasons and circumstances". What is certain is that the (near vertical) impact itself caused a substantial fire on the ground.
I am willing to concede that an inflight electrical fire is a strong possibility, but it shouldn't be presented as a fact at this time.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/04/siemens- ... ash-death/

Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.
There is no need to guess figures just make it sound ridiculous; a little research gives you the actual figures. Plus it's been mentioned up thread already.
The battery pack weighs 8,200 lbs which is 60% of the airplane's 6.3tonne MTOW. (Yes, I'm mixing up the units, but it's not my fault half the world doesn't know which system is correct :lol: )

Babyshark wrote:
Although a V1 cut with that set up looks to be a disaster
What sort of a cut did you have in mind?
Alice can continue a takeoff with loss of both tip thrusters at V2.
That suggests a double engine failure would be an issue at V1, but that's hardly a problem unique to Alice....

In a single engine out scenario, if power is lost in one wingtip-motor, the opposite motor will (automatically) reduce power to prevent asymmetric thrust from causing a loss of control, while the rear motor can provide enough power to keep the Alice flying. :bigthumbsup:
Naturally, as with Boeing's MCAS, as a pilot I would want to be able to over-ride this helpful safety feature - in this case to allow higher thrust levels at my discretion, knowing that it would bring asymmetric issues.
Obviously if it is the rear engine or prop that fails, the two wing-tip engines will happily take you wherever you need to go.

Perhaps, as a taildragger, it would be best to reserve the third engine (at the tail) for when the tail had lifted well clear of the ground? A simple cut-out switch linked to the tail-wheel loading would be enough. AFAIK electric motors can spool up in the blink of an eye. But I guess it would add unnecessary complications and paperwork.

Electric aircraft are facing an uphill battle as it is, without additional half-truths and misconceptions being flung around.
That is all!
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:06 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Biscayne738 wrote:
Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...



Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.

There is no need to guess figures just make it sound ridiculous; a little research gives you the actual figures. Plus it's been mentioned up thread already.
The battery pack weighs 8,200 lbs which is 60% of the airplane's 6.3tonne MTOW. (Yes, I'm mixing up the units, but it's not my fault half the world doesn't know which system is correct
Electric aircraft are facing an uphill battle as it is, without additional half-truths and misconceptions being flung around.
That is all!

A 900kwh battery pack being 8,200 pounds including all the structure and cooling system would be a minor miracle. And even at that weight, the numbers are still ridiculous.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:47 pm

A plane crashed - be sure and get nervous and refuse to fly.
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NeBaNi
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Re: Cape air to order and be launch customer of all-electric aircraft

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:41 pm

Nomadd wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Biscayne738 wrote:
Whats the charge time between flights on the Evation? That could make for some long turns...



Nomadd wrote:
The 900kwh battery pack for that plane would weigh about 5 tonnes on a 6.3tonne MTOW aircraft, and it doesn't get any lighter as you use it.
Doesn't really add up for me.

There is no need to guess figures just make it sound ridiculous; a little research gives you the actual figures. Plus it's been mentioned up thread already.
The battery pack weighs 8,200 lbs which is 60% of the airplane's 6.3tonne MTOW. (Yes, I'm mixing up the units, but it's not my fault half the world doesn't know which system is correct
Electric aircraft are facing an uphill battle as it is, without additional half-truths and misconceptions being flung around.
That is all!

A 900kwh battery pack being 8,200 pounds including all the structure and cooling system would be a minor miracle. And even at that weight, the numbers are still ridiculous.

Going off those numbers, a 900 kWh battery pack weighing 8200 lbs (~3700 kg) works out to be a specific energy of about 240 Wh/kg. This is at pack-level (i.e. with the structure and cooling system mass taken into account). For reference, the Tesla Model S which debuted in 2012 has battery cells with specific energy of about 225 Wh/kg. This is at cell level, so at pack-level this number will be lower. The Airbus E-Fan, which flew in 2013-2014 has a pack specific energy of about 175 Wh/kg. It's not unreasonable to assume that the specific energy has increased to about 240 Wh/kg in 4-5 years, so the numbers do sounds reasonable to me.

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