williaminsd
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More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:04 pm

That's for the demonstrator model, but still that's only a year or so away!

Still looking at 55 pax for the Mach 2.2 beauty. Claims over 500 viable routes even with fly-over-land restrictions. Projects tickets for Transoceanic in the $5k range. Looking for a US manufacturing site.

Raised over $140 million so far...

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... c-airliner
 
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Polot
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:07 pm

williaminsd wrote:

Raised over $140 million so far...

Oh...so they have a long long long way to go before having a commercial product. Because $140 million is basically nothing.
 
dopplerd
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:11 pm

Just spitballing: is BOOM the best name for this company considering the biggest marketplace viability hurdle is the Sonic BOOM created when it is taking advantage of its primary feature?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:15 pm

They'll probably disappear like BOOM pretty shortly.

Michael
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:23 pm

Boom are basically a tech company making an aircraft, so the value here is in the IP.

Closing $100m in Series B is impressive - it shows the due diligence has been done and that enough people / parties consider it worthwhile to proceeded.

Wishing them all the best here.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:25 pm

if the ticket is $6k i'm on that thing
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm

After two years they still have no engine for overture it seems. But all numbers and promises are related to the engine used.

As long as they fail to name the engine I fail to believe in the project. And I have every sympathy for unconventional start ups.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:34 pm

Can' t people just learn from the past??? Mach 2.2 (lots of airports restrict their landings and/or take-offs), 55 passengers (a very niche market), tickets costing $ 5,000 for a transpacific flight, a range of only 4,500 miles. Ok, differently from the Concorde it might be high-tech and it might heavily computerized, still, right off the bat I do not see how it could succeed.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:36 pm

Title seems misleading. Test flight possibly in 2020 is more accurate. Bet that is very optomistic
 
sgbroimp
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:41 pm

55 passengers is going to deliver a decent cost per seat mile???? Sounds too small, especially if fuel does one of its upward wobbles, which it will....
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:47 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Title seems misleading. Test flight possibly in 2020 is more accurate. Bet that is very optomistic


How exactly is it misleading? Nobody ever said anything about first revenue flight, so why would one get confused?
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ScottB
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:28 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Can' t people just learn from the past??? Mach 2.2 (lots of airports restrict their landings and/or take-offs), 55 passengers (a very niche market), tickets costing $ 5,000 for a transpacific flight, a range of only 4,500 miles. Ok, differently from the Concorde it might be high-tech and it might heavily computerized, still, right off the bat I do not see how it could succeed.


That's not unreasonable in comparison to J prices for TYO-SFO at present -- they tend to run around $4,000-5,000 each way for undiscounted J. We don't know exactly what sort of discounts large corporations get, though. I can easily see business travel shifting to SSTs if the price to the corporate purchaser is comparable or slightly higher than transpacific J; there's certainly value in getting your employees there faster. On the flip side, the time in the air isn't entirely wasted given that business travelers can sleep on the flight and current schedules allow for passengers to arrive in Tokyo in time for an afternoon of work.

williaminsd wrote:
SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours.


That's a bit underwhelming in terms of time savings versus the subsonic flights which are currently blocked around 9.5 hours. I'd hope a flight at Mach 2.2 would take under half the time.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:38 pm

Spacepope wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Title seems misleading. Test flight possibly in 2020 is more accurate. Bet that is very optomistic


How exactly is it misleading? Nobody ever said anything about first revenue flight, so why would one get confused?

For most discussions over here, "First flight" refers to first airborne test of deliverable airplane. Which is nothing close to what Boom may be talking about.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:43 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Boom are basically a tech company making an aircraft, so the value here is in the IP.

Closing $100m in Series B is impressive - it shows the due diligence has been done and that enough people / parties consider it worthwhile to proceeded.

Wishing them all the best here.


The term "tech company" lacks any informative value and how does that magically transform into a valuation of undefined IP?
 
FlyHappy
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:30 pm

Zero economic viability for scheduled, "retail service"
The best that can be hoped for is corporate contracts to operate as shuttle.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Lots to overcome, but an exciting product.

The engine will be the most challenging part after noise reduction. If promises are met, this aircraft will own the premium market in its range.

However, I'm not betting my money.

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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:01 pm

First flight of a downscaled demonstrator, maybe...
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:36 pm

robsaw wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
Boom are basically a tech company making an aircraft, so the value here is in the IP.

Closing $100m in Series B is impressive - it shows the due diligence has been done and that enough people / parties consider it worthwhile to proceeded.

Wishing them all the best here.


The term "tech company" lacks any informative value and how does that magically transform into a valuation of undefined IP?


Really? It's pretty self explanatory. They (Boom Technology) are developing technology related to making supersonic flight more feasible, which is their own intellectual property. That IP, which Series B investors will have had sight of, is where their value sits right now.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:59 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Can' t people just learn from the past??? Mach 2.2 (lots of airports restrict their landings and/or take-offs), 55 passengers (a very niche market), tickets costing $ 5,000 for a transpacific flight, a range of only 4,500 miles. Ok, differently from the Concorde it might be high-tech and it might heavily computerized, still, right off the bat I do not see how it could succeed.


Why would you pay $5000+ to fly the same route more than 2x longer?
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:01 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
Zero economic viability for scheduled, "retail service"
The best that can be hoped for is corporate contracts to operate as shuttle.


It costs the same as premium cabins flying the routes today. There is a massive market. How many F/J/PY passengers fly SFO-TYO every day?
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:09 pm

So from what I gather, they have no factory to build it, no engines developed yet should they be able to build it … and will have a demo flight next year ?
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:51 pm

People may want to read TFA more closely and/or look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Technology because it doesn't seem that people are understanding what is going on very well.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:23 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
Boom are basically a tech company making an aircraft, so the value here is in the IP.

Closing $100m in Series B is impressive - it shows the due diligence has been done and that enough people / parties consider it worthwhile to proceeded.

Wishing them all the best here.

Just investing in potential patents, thats all.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:02 pm

airzona11 wrote:
It costs the same as premium cabins flying the routes today. There is a massive market. How many F/J/PY passengers fly SFO-TYO every day?


You are absolutely correct that is the same price as premium cabins today. However one thing that caught my attention in the article was it stated SYD-LAX 6 hours 45 minutes but in parenthesis it states with a fuel stop, which makes me wonder how fuel efficient will this aircraft actually be? If a fuel stop is required on SYD-LAX how many other routes would require a fuel stop as well? With only 55 passengers on board and fuel being the number one expense for any airline I think they are grossly underestimating ticket prices.
Right now an A380 with over 350 passengers can travel nonstop between SYD and LAX the fuel cost an be absorbed by a lot of passengers. BOOM on the other hand will be able to do the same flight in 6 hour 45 minutes BOOM will have to make a stop probably at HNL to refuel which means in addition to the fuel the airlines will have to pay for an additional takeoff and landing slot. The 2 biggest hurdles to supersonic travel is reducing the sonic boom and fuel efficiency. Having to make a fuel stop on flights longer than 6 hours 30 minutes for example doesn't seem very fuel efficient it seems more like Concorde 2.0. Instead of rushing this aircraft to market they should really spend the money to work with engine manufactures to find a way to make supersonic travel fuel efficient. If this aircraft were able to flyHKG-LAX-HKG, or LAX-SIN-LAX without the need for a fuel stop that would be spectacular, but after reading the article BOOM only seems to be slightly better than Concorde.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:06 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Can' t people just learn from the past??? Mach 2.2 (lots of airports restrict their landings and/or take-offs), 55 passengers (a very niche market), tickets costing $ 5,000 for a transpacific flight, a range of only 4,500 miles. Ok, differently from the Concorde it might be high-tech and it might heavily computerized, still, right off the bat I do not see how it could succeed.

The real market is not scheduled pax travel, but the super-upscale luxury traveler.

That is where the money is at, executive travel. I read one estimate of 100-150 frames for exec travel alone, if someone can make the concept work.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
With only 55 passengers on board and fuel being the number one expense for any airline I think they are grossly underestimating ticket prices.


Fuel isn't the #1 expense for every airline -- it isn't even the #1 expense for YOUR airline. Labor is the #1 expense item on many airline P&L statements.

My gut instinct is that the passenger cabin would be more or less akin to a smaller all-Y E170. The value in the product isn't a spacious seating experience -- it is in saving several hours in travel time. Food & beverage can be comparable to intercontinental J since that expense is a drop in the bucket compared to fuel & labor. There's a fair bit of cost saved on labor since the airline could hypothetically operate SYD-HNL with two pilots instead of four.

jayunited wrote:
BOOM on the other hand will be able to do the same flight in 6 hour 45 minutes BOOM will have to make a stop probably at HNL to refuel which means in addition to the fuel the airlines will have to pay for an additional takeoff and landing slot.


6:45 is still a ginormous time saving over the 15-hour non-stop flights available -- if the price is roughly the same as subsonic J, I think that's a no-brainer, even with a fuel stop -- for the market segment which pays for J today.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:39 pm

Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:47 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.

That ground is well staked out, a new entrant needs to look for its own niche.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:52 pm

ScottB wrote:

That's a bit underwhelming in terms of time savings versus the subsonic flights which are currently blocked around 9.5 hours. I'd hope a flight at Mach 2.2 would take under half the time.


Agreed. If SFO-TYO takes 5.5 hours then pretty impressive but TYO-SFO with 5.5 hours isn't very so.

But at least the ticket price seems reasonable.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:54 pm

Revelation wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.

That ground is well staked out, a new entrant needs to look for its own niche.


What niche is there? Between the established aircraft makers, there isn't much. A&B control almost all of mainline commercial aircraft production, and are spreading their reach into regional aircraft. Business jets are well established with Embraer, Bombardier, and Gulfstream, et al. Aircraft building is mature, and there isn't much room for disruption as opposed to ground transport and even the airlines.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:55 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.


Yet JAL pumped 10 million into it

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boom ... SKBN1DZ1N2
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:00 pm

So if American Airlines Group or United Continental Holdings attained these proposed aircraft,

which airlines would operate these Supersonic Regional Jet Airliners?

Envoy?
ExpressJet?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:02 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.

That ground is well staked out, a new entrant needs to look for its own niche.

What niche is there? Between the established aircraft makers, there isn't much. A&B control almost all of mainline commercial aircraft production, and are spreading their reach into regional aircraft. Business jets are well established with Embraer, Bombardier, and Gulfstream, et al. Aircraft building is mature, and there isn't much room for disruption as opposed to ground transport and even the airlines.

A new entrant need not stay independent very long. In this thread we're already saying they are getting investment largely based on the intellectual property around SST and other technology that they've been able to create. Trying to create such IP for a traditional airliner or bizjet would be redundant. We could see Boom develop and fly the SST proof of concept in the ~2020 time frame and if it is a success then one of the worlds big aviation manufacturers could come along and buy out the early investors and provide the manufacturing infra needed to move forward.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:02 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.


Yet JAL pumped 10 million into it

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boom ... SKBN1DZ1N2


10M is nothing. BOOM will need billions to develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft. Not happening without a miracle. The only people that will ever go supersonic in the long term will be fighter pilots and astronauts.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:09 pm

Having flown Concorde LHR/JFK please please please let this become a reality within my lifetime.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:11 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.


Yet JAL pumped 10 million into it

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boom ... SKBN1DZ1N2


10M is nothing. BOOM will need billions to develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft. Not happening without a miracle. The only people that will ever go supersonic in the long term will be fighter pilots and astronauts.


I agree with you … all one has to do is look at the subsonic C series … massive delays and cost overruns …. now multiple by 20
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:12 pm

Aceskywalker wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
Yawn. Can't see this happening. No airline in their right mind would operate a small fleet of supersonic all-J planes. SST is just too inefficient. The future of aviation is slower, more fuel efficient airplanes and narrowbodies being able to perform 10-14+ hour long missions that will open up secondary city - secondary city transcontinential.

Yet JAL pumped 10 million into it

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boom ... SKBN1DZ1N2

10M is nothing. BOOM will need billions to develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft. Not happening without a miracle. The only people that will ever go supersonic in the long term will be fighter pilots and astronauts.

Holy crossed arguments, Batman!

His point is an actual airline is investing $10M in it even before a proof of concept flies.

Post #1 says Boom has already raised $140M.

Seems to be enough to get a proof of concept up and running, no?

Once they do that, it's on to the next funding milestone and/or acquisition by a deep pocketed aerospace firm that can provide the resources needed to "develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft".

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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

10M is nothing. BOOM will need billions to develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft. Not happening without a miracle. The only people that will ever go supersonic in the long term will be fighter pilots and astronauts.

Holy crossed arguments, Batman!

His point is an actual airline is investing $10M in it even before a proof of concept flies.

Post #1 says Boom has already raised $140M.

Seems to be enough to get a proof of concept up and running, no?

Once they do that, it's on to the next funding milestone and/or acquisition by a deep pocketed aerospace firm that can provide the resources needed to "develop, certify, manufacture, and support their hypothetical aircraft".

Rome wasn't built in a day.



It's possible ... after all Boeing is working with Aerion

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2019-02-05 ... nic-Travel
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:37 pm

If Envoy or ExpressJet,

This modern technology might be some incentive to retain Regional Airline pilots.

Time for SCOPE updates? LOL
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:49 pm

This is pretty useless as a concept if Tokyo-San Francisco is the target market. A 5.5 hour flight time and the difference in local time (+9 to -8) between the departure and arrival airports has to be looked at in the context of night curfews in NRT and attractive customer timings.

If you assume that you cannot depart Tokyo between 22:00 and 06:00 and commercially for a premium product you wouldn't want to be arriving in SFO between 22:30 and 05:30, there are only six hours a day in which you can schedule the flight to take place.

If you run as follows:
Schedule ex NRT at 21:00 and arrive in SFO at 09:30.
Schedule ex SFO at 11:00 and arrive in NRT at 09:30.

You then can't use the aircraft again ex NRT until 18:00 earliest (06:30 arrival into SFO).

The time differences and the block times mean that your realistic utilisation of the aircraft is terrible which will in turn undermine its commercial viability.
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:54 pm

codc10 wrote:
First flight of a downscaled demonstrator, maybe...


That's what I was thinking, it was always going to be a scaled down 'trainer jet' sized thing to begin with wasn't it ?
 
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:01 pm

A mach 2+ 55 seater? I say we just take a CR2, some plywood on the winds for structural support and slap a rocket on that bad boy.
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:07 pm

jayunited wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
It costs the same as premium cabins flying the routes today. There is a massive market. How many F/J/PY passengers fly SFO-TYO every day?


You are absolutely correct that is the same price as premium cabins today. However one thing that caught my attention in the article was it stated SYD-LAX 6 hours 45 minutes but in parenthesis it states with a fuel stop, which makes me wonder how fuel efficient will this aircraft actually be? If a fuel stop is required on SYD-LAX how many other routes would require a fuel stop as well? With only 55 passengers on board and fuel being the number one expense for any airline I think they are grossly underestimating ticket prices.
Right now an A380 with over 350 passengers can travel nonstop between SYD and LAX the fuel cost an be absorbed by a lot of passengers. BOOM on the other hand will be able to do the same flight in 6 hour 45 minutes BOOM will have to make a stop probably at HNL to refuel which means in addition to the fuel the airlines will have to pay for an additional takeoff and landing slot. The 2 biggest hurdles to supersonic travel is reducing the sonic boom and fuel efficiency. Having to make a fuel stop on flights longer than 6 hours 30 minutes for example doesn't seem very fuel efficient it seems more like Concorde 2.0. Instead of rushing this aircraft to market they should really spend the money to work with engine manufactures to find a way to make supersonic travel fuel efficient. If this aircraft were able to flyHKG-LAX-HKG, or LAX-SIN-LAX without the need for a fuel stop that would be spectacular, but after reading the article BOOM only seems to be slightly better than Concorde.


Good point on that call out with the fuel stop.
 
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NeBaNi
Posts: 438
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Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:16 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
So if American Airlines Group or United Continental Holdings attained these proposed aircraft,

which airlines would operate these Supersonic Regional Jet Airliners?

Envoy?
ExpressJet?

Scope clauses restrict regional jets by number of seats *and* MTOW, so I can't see the BOOM SST coming in under the weights required for regional flying.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:20 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
So if American Airlines Group or United Continental Holdings attained these proposed aircraft,

which airlines would operate these Supersonic Regional Jet Airliners?

Envoy?
ExpressJet?

Scope clauses restrict regional jets by number of seats *and* MTOW, so I can't see the BOOM SST coming in under the weights required for regional flying.


Great point about weight.... Guess we will have to see what airline pilots do not have this SCOPE in their contracts if any. I always think of seat capacity for some reason.

Any ideas?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:33 pm

We all know AA DL UA are pretty much the same on their SCOPE. WN well we won’t even bother with. B6 well they seem to have a fair amount of SCOPE in their contracts.

Are we down to...

Alaska Air Group
Frontier
Hawaiian Holdings
Sun Country

Allegiant and Spirits models I won’t even bother asking. I think that covers any potential SCOPE issues. In the US anyway.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:36 pm

Boom may be a great recruiting incentive for a regional if SCOPE issues at the last 4 would not get in the way? Not that the Sun Country or Frontier have any regionals.... but
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3159
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:29 am

Everybody who sits here and talks about how SST transport is expensive is completely missing the point. They know it is, they’re trying to make it cost effective. There is no money in the patents to prove they can fly supersonic. It’s been done, there is money in doing it efficiently and at a good price...
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 258
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:42 am

ZuluTime wrote:
This is pretty useless as a concept if Tokyo-San Francisco is the target market. A 5.5 hour flight time and the difference in local time (+9 to -8) between the departure and arrival airports has to be looked at in the context of night curfews in NRT and attractive customer timings.

If you assume that you cannot depart Tokyo between 22:00 and 06:00 and commercially for a premium product you wouldn't want to be arriving in SFO between 22:30 and 05:30, there are only six hours a day in which you can schedule the flight to take place.

If you run as follows:
Schedule ex NRT at 21:00 and arrive in SFO at 09:30.
Schedule ex SFO at 11:00 and arrive in NRT at 09:30.

You then can't use the aircraft again ex NRT until 18:00 earliest (06:30 arrival into SFO).

The time differences and the block times mean that your realistic utilisation of the aircraft is terrible which will in turn undermine its commercial viability.


Hmmm.... maybe you are implying there may be a market for a VERY expensive but similarly sized Boeing Hypersonic airliner in the Pacific, and maybe an expensive Boom Supersonic airliner for the Atlantic.

Thanks for providing this very detailed and thought out analysis.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: More details on BOOM SST at Paris. SFO to Toyko in 5.5 hours. First flight in 2020...

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:34 am

airzona11 wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
Zero economic viability for scheduled, "retail service"
The best that can be hoped for is corporate contracts to operate as shuttle.


It costs the same as premium cabins flying the routes today. There is a massive market. How many F/J/PY passengers fly SFO-TYO every day?


Because it **isn't** going to fly profitably for that nice round marketing number of 5k . The costs will simply be too high to sustain it.
That's not even to mention that the vast majority of J/PY pax are business travelers and most of those have large organization buying power, and get a very steep discount from the 8k-9k return retail pricing. UA/ANA simply aren't filling their premium cabins at those fares - not even close.

flying long haul supersonic for 55 pax will require revenue guarantees that cannot be fulfilled with single seat sales.
Concorde hauled 2x the pax, for a higher fare, a shorter distance..... and was backed by 2 major/state sponsored flag carriers, and even it truly didn't turn any real profit.

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