User avatar
mercure1
Topic Author
Posts: 4359
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:26 pm

Seems the snowball is starting to roll with ever more airlines opting to cut their A380 fleets.


Qatar Airways' Airbus A380s are set for an early retirement, as the airline expects to begin phasing out the fleet from 2024.

"We feel that the aircraft does not have very long future in Qatar Airways' fleet," says group chief executive Akbar Al Baker.

Al Baker says that this means that the airline's first A380 will be withdrawn in five years' time "because it would be 10 years old".

Qatar Airways operates a fleet of 10 Engine Alliance GP7200-powered A380s, the first of which was delivered in 2014.


Qatar moves up A380 fleet retirement
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 24-459201/
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20928
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:39 pm

Wow, gone after 10 years only?

It's not ending well for A380.

LH selling back a bunch to Airbus, AF waffling on whether or not to refit half the fleet or retire them all, and now QR ditching them after 10 years service.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1773
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:41 pm

Is it heading to BA?

Don't forget, QR is a shareholder of IAG, surely they can make arrangement for BA to have the 6 QR A380s for a song.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 20928
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:44 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Is it heading to BA?

Don't forget, QR is a shareholder of IAG, surely they can make arrangement for BA to have the 6 QR A380s for a song.

The song will be a wail, because the QR frames have GP7200 and BA runs Trents.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14870
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:55 pm

Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life. Then again, QR didn’t need them in the first place.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:15 am

This saddens me. I know all the arguments why, but 10 years is verging on infanticide. And there’s no evidence of an afterlife. Unless perhaps there is a neo or something else coming that AAB knows about?
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:22 am

I don't think the engines will be an issue if the price is right. BA can outsource their maintenance, and they've operated
mixed fleets before. A320 family with both CFM and V2500 engines, 747 classics with both RR and GE, 777s with both
RR and GE etc. The bigger concern will the the cost of reconfiguring them to BA specifications and of course the purchase
price? Does it make it worth it? If any airline could use them it's BA because of LHR's slot restrictions. I suspect the purchase
price would indeed be good. If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.
Lets remember the SQ birds scrapped also had extensive wing modifications and were heavier than normal.
This all fundimentally comes down to a figure.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9363
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:24 am

This actually isn’t new news: https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2019/02/1 ... f-carrier/

There was a thread on A.net about it but can’t be bothered to look right now.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:29 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Is it heading to BA?

Don't forget, QR is a shareholder of IAG, surely they can make arrangement for BA to have the 6 QR A380s for a song.

That's what I was thinking. BA may be able to get their hands on a bunch of very cheap "end-of-life" A380's from QR, EK, AF, SQ and others
What?
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2268
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:36 am

ikramerica wrote:
Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life. Then again, QR didn’t need them in the first place.

They aren't "unworkable", they just don't figure into the business plan. For one, they'd need to be reconfigured to the latest QR product (Q Suites, new F). Given QR seems to be eliminating F, the A388 is a bit superfluous for them.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:40 am

Pellegrine wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life. Then again, QR didn’t need them in the first place.

They aren't "unworkable", they just don't figure into the business plan. For one, they'd need to be reconfigured to the latest QR product (Q Suites, new F). Given QR seems to be eliminating F, the A388 is a bit superfluous for them.



They'll keep F to LHR in some form, and probably JFK.
As for the rest... who knows its not likely. They just dethroned SQ
so that will involve some kind of F product and LHR is the worlds
premier market.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2500
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:07 am

I think these airlines are getting an idea how expensive parts and mx will be once the assembly lines shuts
down for good and are planning accordingly.

Like Concorde, the A380 is a technological marvel but not so much a commercial one
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17688
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:30 am

Why is everyone posting if they are cheap enough someone will buy them? AF, LH, SQ, and now QR are not taking up the opportunity to buy cheap used A380s. While I can only speculate why, these are all airlines that know the cost benefit of the 787, A350, and promised 779. Hmmm....

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:38 am

IF someone can figure out how to make a mint running an airline based on used A380's he could become a millionaire, just takes $2B to start it.

<snark off> There will be a clearing price for planes coming off lease, maybe TK expands with their new airport or a charter operator. Just no budget for refits, etc. The cabin will look dated. Somewhere around the 30th plane retired the parts market will be flooded and prices will collapse.

The airlines that didn't get lured with the siren song are breathing a sigh of relief. Imagine AF looking at the 5 owned frames and seeing the future write offs.
 
B1168
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:39 am

lightsaber wrote:
Why is everyone posting if they are cheap enough someone will buy them? AF, LH, SQ, and now QR are not taking up the opportunity to buy cheap used A380s. While I can only speculate why, these are all airlines that know the cost benefit of the 787, A350, and promised 779. Hmmm....

Lightsaber


Yes, indeed. As unfortunate as it sounds, change is the only consistent thing, which means that these giants will have to leave some day.
Where does their 380 fly to?
 
User avatar
hongkongflyer
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:48 am

Lufthansa wrote:
I don't think the engines will be an issue if the price is right. BA can outsource their maintenance, and they've operated
mixed fleets before. A320 family with both CFM and V2500 engines, 747 classics with both RR and GE, 777s with both
RR and GE etc. The bigger concern will the the cost of reconfiguring them to BA specifications and of course the purchase
price? Does it make it worth it? If any airline could use them it's BA because of LHR's slot restrictions. I suspect the purchase
price would indeed be good. If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.
Lets remember the SQ birds scrapped also had extensive wing modifications and were heavier than normal.
This all fundimentally comes down to a figure.


The engines do matters.
The fleets of mixed fleets' 320; 747 classics and 777 are a lot larger when compared to just fleet of a dozen 380.

IF BA really want 2nd 380 and Airbus really want to establish a second hand market for 380,
those LH 380s sending back to Airbus will be a good choice if Airbus willing to offer them a deal that is too good to be true.
 
User avatar
Veigar
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:02 am

Everyone wanna beach the whale it seems..
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:08 am

B1168 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Why is everyone posting if they are cheap enough someone will buy them? AF, LH, SQ, and now QR are not taking up the opportunity to buy cheap used A380s. While I can only speculate why, these are all airlines that know the cost benefit of the 787, A350, and promised 779. Hmmm....

Lightsaber


Yes, indeed. As unfortunate as it sounds, change is the only consistent thing, which means that these giants will have to leave some day.
Where does their 380 fly to?

Interestingly not JFK. EY and EK send them but not QR. Right now it’s a B77W and an A35K, vs 1 and 3 A388s respectively for the other 2.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 am

Vanity orders turn into this, no one to blame but themselves.
@DadCelo
 
cpd
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:23 am

I don't see this as a particular problem of the A380, but a problem of certain noisy airline executives... He seems to have a problem with every plane at one time or another.

If it were another executive who was less noisy and opinionated I might think otherwise.
 
speedbird52
Posts: 758
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:38 am

It's really sad to see the A380 go
 
Northwest1988
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:39 am

We have seen planes like the DC-8/9/10, MD-80, 737-200’s, 727s and others fly on for years after production ended and they were withdrawn from the major carriers. I get the feeling we won’t be seeing that kind of longevity with the A380... but who knows!
 
Varsity1
Posts: 1907
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:39 am

Vanity jet turns into a lawn ornament.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:46 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
I don't think the engines will be an issue if the price is right. BA can outsource their maintenance, and they've operated
mixed fleets before. A320 family with both CFM and V2500 engines, 747 classics with both RR and GE, 777s with both
RR and GE etc. The bigger concern will the the cost of reconfiguring them to BA specifications and of course the purchase
price? Does it make it worth it? If any airline could use them it's BA because of LHR's slot restrictions. I suspect the purchase
price would indeed be good. If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.
Lets remember the SQ birds scrapped also had extensive wing modifications and were heavier than normal.
This all fundimentally comes down to a figure.


The engines do matters.
The fleets of mixed fleets' 320; 747 classics and 777 are a lot larger when compared to just fleet of a dozen 380.

IF BA really want 2nd 380 and Airbus really want to establish a second hand market for 380,
those LH 380s sending back to Airbus will be a good choice if Airbus willing to offer them a deal that is too good to be true.


Why? circle them through HKG or somewhere and get the engine maintained there. Thats exactly what QF does with 744s.
Or somewhere in the United States where the engines are made. At one point QF had RR, GE and PW powered 767s onsite.
Both Air NZ and SAA with small 744 fleets had both RR and GE 744s onsite. Cathay
operated both RR 744s and PW powered ones second hand from Singapore. TG operates A330s with both PW and RR engines.

How is maintaining engines for the A380 any different?
 
hz747300
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:46 am

ikramerica wrote:
Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life. Then again, QR didn’t need them in the first place.


That is so true. This is as much a QR issue as it is an A380 one. They can find a home doing Hajj flights after 2024.
Keep on truckin'...
 
georgiaame
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:47 am

Have to wonder if Delta might want to pick up a few. For a song. They are 10 year old used jets, there is a precedent. Just sayin'.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7384
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:47 am

What about the possibility of ANA taking a couple more for high-density domestic flights (like the 747)?

What about another carrier wanting to use it to test the capacity but not commit to full-price (SA? GA? NZ? TK?)?

Would some of these make their way into IR's fleet (they flew 747s into Europe...I'm certain they could attempt an A380)?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7384
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:55 am

georgiaame wrote:
Have to wonder if Delta might want to pick up a few. For a song. They are 10 year old used jets, there is a precedent. Just sayin'.

I want to entertain the idea...but where would they fly? I guess it allows something like ATL-PEK or LAX-CDG/AMS. The question is also if there's demand.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
acjbbj
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:35 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Have to wonder if Delta might want to pick up a few. For a song. They are 10 year old used jets, there is a precedent. Just sayin'.

I want to entertain the idea...but where would they fly? I guess it allows something like ATL-PEK or LAX-CDG/AMS. The question is also if there's demand.

To justify an A380? You thought.
Douglas Aircraft Company
Born: 22 July 1921 (Santa Monica, CA)
Died: 23 May 2006 (Long Beach, CA), age 84 years 10 months 1 day
You will be missed.
 
User avatar
FrenchPotatoEye
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Is it heading to BA?

Don't forget, QR is a shareholder of IAG, surely they can make arrangement for BA to have the 6 QR A380s for a song.


Qr can't force BA to take these jets. Shareholder or not.

In any case, BA seems happy that it hasn't bought any second hand 380s and instead went with 7779x earlier this year.

After all, if cebu can cram 460 seats in an A330neo, imagine what a 7779 could fit with some exit changes....550 or more perhaps?

Qr tried and failed to copy emirates in buying large numbers of a380s and in the end couldn't keep up. Like Istanbul, Doha is a total dumping ground and people still transit through busier, congested hubs than Doha. That's whay Qr is losing money just as bad as etihad .
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3143
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:42 am

ikramerica wrote:
Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life. Then again, QR didn’t need them in the first place.


QR & other ME airlines as well as Singapore have done 10 years for a frame for years. Nothing to do with the frames being unworkable after 10 years.
Last edited by rbavfan on Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 1773
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:43 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
Qr can't force BA to take these jets. Shareholder or not.


Never said QR is going to force BA to take the planes. What I'm saying is that BA could negotiate to get those A380s at a low price simply because there's a stronger association between them & QR through shareholding.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:45 am

Lufthansa wrote:
I don't think the engines will be an issue if the price is right. BA can outsource their maintenance, and they've operated
mixed fleets before. A320 family with both CFM and V2500 engines, 747 classics with both RR and GE, 777s with both
RR and GE etc. The bigger concern will the the cost of reconfiguring them to BA specifications and of course the purchase
price? Does it make it worth it? If any airline could use them it's BA because of LHR's slot restrictions. I suspect the purchase
price would indeed be good. If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.
Lets remember the SQ birds scrapped also had extensive wing modifications and were heavier than normal.
This all fundimentally comes down to a figure.

BA could have gotten used ones already, they chose not to as it was cost prohibitive to redo the interiors to BA’s configuration.
 
User avatar
FrenchPotatoEye
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:46 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
Qr can't force BA to take these jets. Shareholder or not.


Never said QR is going to force BA to take the planes. What I'm saying is that BA could negotiate to get those A380s at a low price simply because there's a stronger association between them & QR through shareholding.


Very sorry, didn't mean to imply that that's what you meant. Not my intention.

I do agree BA could get a bargain, but the different engines would be a problem as well as cabin fit out. Walsh prior said it could be higher than 50mil to re-jig per 380.

Akbarz 380s will end up parked/parted out. Ditto ek 380s.t
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:48 am

Lufthansa wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
I don't think the engines will be an issue if the price is right. BA can outsource their maintenance, and they've operated
mixed fleets before. A320 family with both CFM and V2500 engines, 747 classics with both RR and GE, 777s with both
RR and GE etc. The bigger concern will the the cost of reconfiguring them to BA specifications and of course the purchase
price? Does it make it worth it? If any airline could use them it's BA because of LHR's slot restrictions. I suspect the purchase
price would indeed be good. If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.
Lets remember the SQ birds scrapped also had extensive wing modifications and were heavier than normal.
This all fundimentally comes down to a figure.


The engines do matters.
The fleets of mixed fleets' 320; 747 classics and 777 are a lot larger when compared to just fleet of a dozen 380.

IF BA really want 2nd 380 and Airbus really want to establish a second hand market for 380,
those LH 380s sending back to Airbus will be a good choice if Airbus willing to offer them a deal that is too good to be true.


Why? circle them through HKG or somewhere and get the engine maintained there. Thats exactly what QF does with 744s.
Or somewhere in the United States where the engines are made. At one point QF had RR, GE and PW powered 767s onsite.
Both Air NZ and SAA with small 744 fleets had both RR and GE 744s onsite. Cathay
operated both RR 744s and PW powered ones second hand from Singapore. TG operates A330s with both PW and RR engines.

How is maintaining engines for the A380 any different?

You don’t overhaul or mod engines on wing. They are removed and shipped to a vendor, or in-house. You wouldn’t fly a plane to the engine overhaul facility for the engines to be serviced.
 
garcan
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:36 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:26 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
Qr tried and failed to copy emirates in buying large numbers of a380s and in the end couldn't keep up. Like Istanbul, Doha is a total dumping ground and people still transit through busier, congested hubs than Doha


I think it is obvious QR is trying to follow a different strategy than EK. Interestingly, they only have 10 A380 frames (compared to 100+ in EK) used mainly to Australia and London.
On the other side, comparing Istanbul and Doha doesn't make much sense since the O&D in IST, and domestic market, has nothing to do with the one in Qatar.
I have transited Doha several times and I think it is a nice place to transit, especially compared to DXB, which is too congested currently for a smooth experience.
 
HOOB747
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:30 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:57 am

Sooner787 wrote:
I think these airlines are getting an idea how expensive parts and mx will be once the assembly lines shuts
down for good and are planning accordingly.

Like Concorde, the A380 is a technological marvel but not so much a commercial one



What was the marvelous technology associated with the 380?
I love dem planes....
 
Cerecl
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:12 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

After all, if cebu can cram 460 seats in an A330neo, imagine what a 7779 could fit with some exit changes....550 or more perhaps?
Qr tried and failed to copy emirates in buying large numbers of a380s and in the end couldn't keep up. Like Istanbul, Doha is a total dumping ground and people still transit through busier, congested hubs than Doha. That's whay Qr is losing money just as bad as etihad .


QR is not 5J, makes no sense to draw parallels.
I would hardly call 10 A380s "large numbers", every time I got on a QR A380 it seemed pretty full. Doha Hamad airport is a modern and well run facility, hardly a dumping ground. Have you been to Doha? QR is actually hurting from its neighbours putting an embargo/airspace restriction around it, of course operating in ME is not an easy endeavour itself even without having to fly around UAE, Saudia etc.

Incidentally I have my doubts about the viability of the 50 777X's on order. Based on the very unscientific personal experience, their 77W rides to European cities are often half full at best, I seems to me that they need more 787-9/A359 type aircrafts to run these missions.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2560
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:31 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Lufthansa wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:

The engines do matters.
The fleets of mixed fleets' 320; 747 classics and 777 are a lot larger when compared to just fleet of a dozen 380.

IF BA really want 2nd 380 and Airbus really want to establish a second hand market for 380,
those LH 380s sending back to Airbus will be a good choice if Airbus willing to offer them a deal that is too good to be true.


Why? circle them through HKG or somewhere and get the engine maintained there. Thats exactly what QF does with 744s.
Or somewhere in the United States where the engines are made. At one point QF had RR, GE and PW powered 767s onsite.
Both Air NZ and SAA with small 744 fleets had both RR and GE 744s onsite. Cathay
operated both RR 744s and PW powered ones second hand from Singapore. TG operates A330s with both PW and RR engines.

How is maintaining engines for the A380 any different?

You don’t overhaul or mod engines on wing. They are removed and shipped to a vendor, or in-house. You wouldn’t fly a plane to the engine overhaul facility for the engines to be serviced.


Of course they're not! nobody for a second was suggesting they were. They cycle an aircraft through a maintenance base. It's engine is then removed and engines fitted.
That put's the aircraft in the skies again sooner. This is nothing new, United were doing it with the Boeing 707 and the Caraville in the 1960s to get
maintenance times down and keep the aircraft in the sky. That way they're only out of service for the time it takes to remove an engine. QF for example do
all of their A380 work at LAX and cycle them through there for that purpose between passenger schedules. With a smaller fleet it sometimes means a sub of a different
type but usually they manage it fine.
 
ethernal
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:54 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
Have to wonder if Delta might want to pick up a few. For a song. They are 10 year old used jets, there is a precedent. Just sayin'.

I want to entertain the idea...but where would they fly? I guess it allows something like ATL-PEK or LAX-CDG/AMS. The question is also if there's demand.


Delta never even ordered a 777-300.. the likelihood of them buying an A380 is virtually zero.

Unlike the ME3 who have no hub-to-hub, Delta does have hub-hub routes that justify the demand because of their JV partners. ATL/JFK/LAX to AMS/CDG/ICN could all support an A380 (ATL-CDG, JFK-CDG, and LAX-CDG already do during part of the year via AF).

But I don't buy it. Even on those routes, Delta would much rather run 2-3x frequency of a lower capacity plane to match various hub banks with their JV partners than 1x high capacity flight that creates a lot of 5-8 hour layovers. Even today, Delta (and their JV partner) runs mixed capacity flights to make that happen. There's not a lot of routes that have an A380 and a 787 flying by the same carrier, but JFK-CDG does and that is to match demand against connecting flights.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:58 am

Lufthansa wrote:
If Hifly can afford to buy them, and they're known for always hunting for bargains,
then I would suspect given the limited amount of second hand customers their won't be too much competition.


1. HiFly didn't reconfigure it, and that's where it really hurts the purse. A premium airline like BA can't really keep a sub-fleet in a different corporate design flying.
2. If I'm not ill informed, HiFly didn't purchase the aircraft but took them on contingency, i.e. they are only paying for the time that they manage to lease it out and are not bearing any risk from the frame. If anyone has more intimate knowledge of the deal please correct me if I should be wrong.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:01 am

QR has over-ordered widebodies, so they have no choice but to keep a tight cycle of deliveries and retirements.
The A380 is falling victim to poor management, once again.

This being said, a 10-year cycle is not bad, considering that their relative young fleet of B777's is already earmarked for replacement by B777X.

These A380's should find a new home, they'll be fine.
 
User avatar
hongkongflyer
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:07 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
What about the possibility of ANA taking a couple more for high-density domestic flights (like the 747)?

What about another carrier wanting to use it to test the capacity but not commit to full-price (SA? GA? NZ? TK?)?

Would some of these make their way into IR's fleet (they flew 747s into Europe...I'm certain they could attempt an A380)?


HND is not 380 ready so zero chance for NH to use as domestic people mover.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 3759
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:09 am

I would love to post some pictures and quotes from that day when they ordered their second batch but I don’t have time right now...

Bricktop wrote:
Unless perhaps there is a neo or something else coming that AAB knows about?

Don’t know about „something else“ but definitely no neo. Even if a new engine would fall out of the sky it wouldn’t help since there would be no tooling to build the A380 around the new engines.

Former CEO Enders explained that they offered a neo‘d version to main customers but there was simply no interest.
 
User avatar
FrenchPotatoEye
Posts: 205
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:20 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:29 am

Cerecl wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

After all, if cebu can cram 460 seats in an A330neo, imagine what a 7779 could fit with some exit changes....550 or more perhaps?
Qr tried and failed to copy emirates in buying large numbers of a380s and in the end couldn't keep up. Like Istanbul, Doha is a total dumping ground and people still transit through busier, congested hubs than Doha. That's whay Qr is losing money just as bad as etihad .


QR is not 5J, makes no sense to draw parallels.
I would hardly call 10 A380s "large numbers", every time I got on a QR A380 it seemed pretty full. Doha Hamad airport is a modern and well run facility, hardly a dumping ground. Have you been to Doha? QR is actually hurting from its neighbours putting an embargo/airspace restriction around it, of course operating in ME is not an easy endeavour itself even without having to fly around UAE, Saudia etc.

Incidentally I have my doubts about the viability of the 50 777X's on order. Based on the very unscientific personal experience, their 77W rides to European cities are often half full at best, I seems to me that they need more 787-9/A359 type aircrafts to run these missions.


I couldn't care less about the Qatar embargo. Airport traffic figures over tha last decade show more people flew to congested hubs like dxb over Doha.

I'm sure the blockade is wounding Qatar and it's airline hence it's recent losses. I do agree with you 100pc about the 777xs on order. I wonder if they will be cancelled.

And yep, I've been to Hamad Int'l a few times. It's nothing special when viewed in context of the wider airport selection in the Gulf peninsula. Other than that, Doha has nothing to offer to compete in terms of tourist attractions like Abhi Dhabi and Dubai have. Or muskat for that matter.
 
User avatar
Slash787
Posts: 912
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:43 am

Well this is old news by now, by reading the title I thought the new early phase out would be by 2020 or 2021.
 
RJMAZ
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:59 am

China should snap up all the used A380's and put them to work between their megahubs.

Get 800 seats on them. Fuel burn wouldn't be an issue on short routes.
 
bhxalex
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:40 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:21 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
What about the possibility of ANA taking a couple more for high-density domestic flights (like the 747)?

What about another carrier wanting to use it to test the capacity but not commit to full-price (SA? GA? NZ? TK?)?

Would some of these make their way into IR's fleet (they flew 747s into Europe...I'm certain they could attempt an A380)?


HND is not 380 ready so zero chance for NH to use as domestic people mover.



Likewise the cost of upgrading gates, taxiways and potentially runways at other Japanese airports means this is a non-starter. Aside from KIX & NRT are there any other Japanese airports that can take the A380 in normal circumstances?
 
VTCIE
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:25 am

To think that this was the airline whose A380 introduction took up most of 2014. And that this was the aircraft which repeatedly pushed back the inauguration of the State-of-the-Art Hamad International Airport. Hmmm...

That said, this may very well be the end of F at QR. TK is doing splendidly without it, and Garuda has all but eliminated it outside of the DPS/CGK to NRT/HND routes.

It only goes to show that a Skytrax five-star airline need NOT have a first class.

https://onemileatatime.com/qatar-airway ... delivered/
In grieving remembrance of the thousands of people who lost their lives on ET-AVJ, PK-LQP, XA-UHZ, S2-AGU, CP-2933, SU-GCC, EI-ETJ, D-AIPX, PK-AXC, 9M-MRD, VT-AXV and above all 9M-MRO, besides many more. Your deaths are not in vain. Safety first, always.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12315
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Qatar speeds up A380 retirement

Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:50 am

Revelation wrote:
Wow, gone after 10 years only?
ikramerica wrote:
Amazing that its so unworkable that they have a 10 year life.
Bricktop wrote:
10 years is verging on infanticide.

Why are people acting surprised, when this sorta retirement time frame is par for the course with QR (and other similar airlines for that matter)?



georgiaame wrote:
Have to wonder if Delta might want to pick up a few. For a song. They are 10 year old used jets, there is a precedent. Just sayin'.

WHAT precedent? The last time DL bought used widebodies (for anything other than parts) was nearly a quarter century ago.

.....but this A.net mantra refuses to die.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos