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Zoedyn
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Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:21 pm

https://thehimalayantimes.com/business/ ... i-flights/

The national flag carrier of Finland — Finnair — has made a proposal to Nepal to launch direct flights between Kathmandu and Helsinki.

The Ministry of Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation of Nepal has forwarded the Finnish proposal to the Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal and Nepal Airlines Corporation for suggestions and further procedures, as Nepal is still making preparations to sign an air service agreement with Finland.


An amazing proposal. AY is really upping its game for its Asian expansion.

If HEL-KTM became true, I believe it would surely be a valuable and attractive addition to its Asian network.
 
devron
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:49 pm

This is mainly a tourist market does this fit with Finnair business model?
 
J343
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:07 pm

I would have thought MNL/CEB would be a better addition to Finnair's network
 
xijiayu
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:43 pm

If they could start flying to KTM, I cannot see how KUL does not work for them. But, having been to Finland so many times before and I certainly can see quite a connection to Nepal there. Thai, Indian and Nepalese restaurants are very common even in small cities, but would this shows there are large enough demand in Finland to justify the flight to KTM?
 
Kikko19
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:46 pm

Which equipment would be required?
 
Blerg
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:55 pm

Would it make sense for them to offer connections to North America or is it too much of a detour?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:04 pm

Blerg wrote:
Would it make sense for them to offer connections to North America or is it too much of a detour?


It looks like it could be a shortcut for ORD and the east cost cities going westward instead of east.

KTM-HEL-ORD: 8,000mi
KTM-NRT-ORD: 9,520mi
KTM-PEK-ORD: 8,550mi

KTM-HEL-JFK: 7,691mi
KTM-NRT-JFK: 9,990mi
KTM-PEK-JFK: 8,810mi
 
Blerg
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:17 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Would it make sense for them to offer connections to North America or is it too much of a detour?


It looks like it could be a shortcut for ORD and the east cost cities going westward instead of east.

KTM-HEL-ORD: 8,000mi
KTM-NRT-ORD: 9,520mi
KTM-PEK-ORD: 8,550mi

KTM-HEL-JFK: 7,691mi
KTM-NRT-JFK: 9,990mi
KTM-PEK-JFK: 8,810mi


Interesting, I wonder how big the market from Nepal to North America is and if there is commercial sense to go after them.
 
Strato2
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:20 pm

Nepalese restaurant worker express.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:54 pm

Blerg wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Would it make sense for them to offer connections to North America or is it too much of a detour?


It looks like it could be a shortcut for ORD and the east cost cities going westward instead of east.

KTM-HEL-ORD: 8,000mi
KTM-NRT-ORD: 9,520mi
KTM-PEK-ORD: 8,550mi

KTM-HEL-JFK: 7,691mi
KTM-NRT-JFK: 9,990mi
KTM-PEK-JFK: 8,810mi


Interesting, I wonder how big the market from Nepal to North America is and if there is commercial sense to go after them.

Haha, you wrote pretty much the same I was going to :lol:
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
a320fan
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Which equipment would be required?

I would imagine they’d use A330
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
SQ317
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:34 pm

xijiayu wrote:
If they could start flying to KTM, I cannot see how KUL does not work for them. But, having been to Finland so many times before and I certainly can see quite a connection to Nepal there. Thai, Indian and Nepalese restaurants are very common even in small cities, but would this shows there are large enough demand in Finland to justify the flight to KTM?


Finnair have positioned themselves well as an Europe to Asia connector, for example getting from UK to KTM is not straightforward! Not sure if they'll be able to fill the front end though as most pax are low yielding back packers I would imagine..
 
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RWA380
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:29 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

It looks like it could be a shortcut for ORD and the east cost cities going westward instead of east.

KTM-HEL-ORD: 8,000mi
KTM-NRT-ORD: 9,520mi
KTM-PEK-ORD: 8,550mi

KTM-HEL-JFK: 7,691mi
KTM-NRT-JFK: 9,990mi
KTM-PEK-JFK: 8,810mi


Interesting, I wonder how big the market from Nepal to North America is and if there is commercial sense to go after them.

Haha, you wrote pretty much the same I was going to :lol:


Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain, where there are log jams of tourists dying up there. Leaving the bodies to be brought down later. I am concerned that Nepal is not recognizing the limitations of their environment, frozen excrement is everywhere & as temperatures have risen a few degrees recently, much of what was frozen, is no longer.

It's already like 10-15k to get a permit to climb, with those kind of fees, those trekking to the top are taking more dangerous risks given their huge outlay of cash & expectations of the sherpas. I sold for two years, cultural & educational trips to Nepal in the late 90's. Back then TG was our airline of choice, with some days having good connections from the LAX non-stop on the A-345's.

I think AY has an excellent chance of capturing USA-KTM if the connections work well. As time has passed people get to KTM via other places like China & India. I will tell you not much has changed in Nepal all these years after the quake, I had a friend there during that time & he was stuck for an extra 3 weeks, but he was able to fly home with his wife's daughter from a previous marriage because they loosened up the rules to reunite families & that's what he got to do & why he was there to begin with with his lawyers.

Anyway, I think AY could be poised to capture even the West Coast cities, if the connections work well, Sometimes going via Asia can involve an overnight or a long layover. GL to them, AY is out front again.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:30 pm

Heck of a detour with the Pak airspace closure issue.
 
nmcalba
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:25 am

RWA380 wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Blerg wrote:

Interesting, I wonder how big the market from Nepal to North America is and if there is commercial sense to go after them.

Haha, you wrote pretty much the same I was going to :lol:


Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain, where there are log jams of tourists dying up there. Leaving the bodies to be brought down later. I am concerned that Nepal is not recognizing the limitations of their environment, frozen excrement is everywhere & as temperatures have risen a few degrees recently, much of what was frozen, is no longer.

It's already like 10-15k to get a permit to climb, with those kind of fees, those trekking to the top are taking more dangerous risks given their huge outlay of cash & expectations of the sherpas. I sold for two years, cultural & educational trips to Nepal in the late 90's. Back then TG was our airline of choice, with some days having good connections from the LAX non-stop on the A-345's.

I think AY has an excellent chance of capturing USA-KTM if the connections work well. As time has passed people get to KTM via other places like China & India. I will tell you not much has changed in Nepal all these years after the quake, I had a friend there during that time & he was stuck for an extra 3 weeks, but he was able to fly home with his wife's daughter from a previous marriage because they loosened up the rules to reunite families & that's what he got to do & why he was there to begin with with his lawyers.

Anyway, I think AY could be poised to capture even the West Coast cities, if the connections work well, Sometimes going via Asia can involve an overnight or a long layover. GL to them, AY is out front again.



Seriously? - "Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain" - somewhat hyperbolic don't you think?

Nepal gets about a million tourist visits a year - if the majority were bound for Everest there really would be a log jam. There certainly are major issues round safety and environmental problems - not just in the Everest area but throughout Nepal - but tourism remains a vital source of income for a very poor country.

Climbing Everest is a small proportion of the mountaineering that goes on in Nepal - and that is dwarfed by the trekking - but even that is just a small part of tourism to Nepal - quite apart from anything it is a major pilgrimage destination for the 3rd and 4th largest religions in the world.

But back to the proposed flight - good luck to Finnair. The last couple of times I went I flew via Doha on Qatar - which allows me to one-stop from my local regional airport. Being able to do the same via Helsinki would cut about 1500km off the GC distance - in fact the GC route from my house to KTM pretty much goes over Helsinki. I know GC isn't always the route that gets taken but it does have the possibility to cut a couple of hours off the flight time from NW Europe.

Also if the flight does take something close to the GC route, over Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and China - and coming into Nepal from the NW rather than the South; then the prospect has me salivating over the potential views out the window.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:16 am

nmcalba wrote:
Seriously? - "Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain" - somewhat hyperbolic don't you think?

Nepal gets about a million tourist visits a year - if the majority were bound for Everest there really would be a log jam.


AY isn't targeting Indian and Chinese tourists to Nepal with the proposed flight - which make up about 40% of international arrivals. It's looking for European and North American tourists (with its very limited NA network and AA code shares). The Great Circle distance advantage disappears for HEL (vs. ICN, as an example) somewhere east of DEN. This is an interesting request. I wish them luck.
 
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:34 am

a320fan wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Which equipment would be required?

I would imagine they’d use A330


It's just 3,574 miles from KTM to HEL. Is this within the range of AY's existing A321s?
 
Kikko19
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:52 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Which equipment would be required?

I would imagine they’d use A330


It's just 3,574 miles from KTM to HEL. Is this within the range of AY's existing A321s?

No penalty due to altitude? I think it would work well, maybe 3 times per week. Lots of rich annoyed Europeans are looking at Nepal as getaway destination.
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
nmcalba wrote:
Seriously? - "Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain" - somewhat hyperbolic don't you think?

Nepal gets about a million tourist visits a year - if the majority were bound for Everest there really would be a log jam.


AY isn't targeting Indian and Chinese tourists to Nepal with the proposed flight - which make up about 40% of international arrivals. It's looking for European and North American tourists (with its very limited NA network and AA code shares). The Great Circle distance advantage disappears for HEL (vs. ICN, as an example) somewhere east of DEN. This is an interesting request. I wish them luck.


I agree very much. Wish them good luck.
My concern is, I am not sure if KTM can handle A330-300s. I hope they can (give they handle KE 772), but if they have load sheds it would be another challenge to overcome.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:42 pm

As SQ317 says, Finnair is connecting Europe to Asia. That is their business model, not tourists from Finland or the Nepalese restaurant works going back home. The question is if there's enough Europe-wide demand for Nepal that it makes sense for AY to gather those customers and fly them to Nepal.

I'd say "probably". But there's also many other potential places in Asia that might be attractive for AY. But as usual, there's plenty of variables. E.g., existing competition which appears pretty thin in Nepal.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:04 pm

Nepal's only other link to Europe is TK to IST. If it is 3 or 4x weekly, and on the A321, no doubt there is a business case. Front cabin will probably be aid workers, regional executives of European companies and the sum of European diplomats to Nepal, and the Nepalese to European countries. Also, cargo would matter a lot. I believe this to be the easy part, due to the in-essence monopoly. The back will be backpackers and Nepalese tourists (not many but still) to Europe.
 
aviationaware
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:07 pm

Very surprising but always happy to see "odd" flights outside the trodden paths so go Finnair!
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:21 pm

B1168 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
nmcalba wrote:
Seriously? - "Small & guess what the majority of that tourism is bound for in Nepal? The Mountain" - somewhat hyperbolic don't you think?

Nepal gets about a million tourist visits a year - if the majority were bound for Everest there really would be a log jam.


AY isn't targeting Indian and Chinese tourists to Nepal with the proposed flight - which make up about 40% of international arrivals. It's looking for European and North American tourists (with its very limited NA network and AA code shares). The Great Circle distance advantage disappears for HEL (vs. ICN, as an example) somewhere east of DEN. This is an interesting request. I wish them luck.


I agree very much. Wish them good luck.
My concern is, I am not sure if KTM can handle A330-300s. I hope they can (give they handle KE 772), but if they have load sheds it would be another challenge to overcome.


Turkish used to send the A330-300 into KTM, even managed to write one off there too!
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:10 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
B1168 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

AY isn't targeting Indian and Chinese tourists to Nepal with the proposed flight - which make up about 40% of international arrivals. It's looking for European and North American tourists (with its very limited NA network and AA code shares). The Great Circle distance advantage disappears for HEL (vs. ICN, as an example) somewhere east of DEN. This is an interesting request. I wish them luck.


I agree very much. Wish them good luck.
My concern is, I am not sure if KTM can handle A330-300s. I hope they can (give they handle KE 772), but if they have load sheds it would be another challenge to overcome.


Turkish used to send the A330-300 into KTM, even managed to write one off there too!

KTM gets a bunch of A330s. AFAIK: Cathay Dragon with -300s; Nepal Airlines with -200s; China Southern, Qatar Airways, Turkish Airlines with a mix of both. Previously, Etihad, Air Asia X, and Gulf Air have also served KTM with A330s. So KTM can definitely handle both variants. Weight shouldn't be an issue because there are heavier aircraft operating to KTM -- Korean Air and Thai Airways both operate Boeing 777-200s. Previously, Pakistan International Airlines has also operated Boeing 747s into KTM as substitutions.
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:13 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Nepalese restaurant worker express.

There are more Nepalese abroad than restaurant workers. Leaving aside the Gulf country migrant workers (for whom a potential AY flight wouldn't work anyway), I'm sure there are more students/ former students who settlled in Europe than restaurant workers.
 
miamiflyer8
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:20 am

I personally do not see this route being something with demand considering AY's current fleet.
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x1234
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:33 am

A route that is actually in demand and very profitable (feeds entire Europe + North America) is Mumbai in India. Very high shortage of capacity with Jet's demise. They should launch HEL-BOM instead.
 
Antarius
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:59 am

x1234 wrote:
A route that is actually in demand and very profitable (feeds entire Europe + North America) is Mumbai in India. Very high shortage of capacity with Jet's demise. They should launch HEL-BOM instead.


No one is going go fly BOM-HEL-KTM.

And if not your implication, there is a plethora of ludicrous 9W threads for stuff like this. All which have nothing to do with HEL, AY or KTM.
2019: SIN HKG NRT DFW IAH HOU CLT LGA JFK SFO SJC EWR SNA EYW MIA BOG LAX ORD DTW OAK PVG BOS DCA IAD ATL LAS BIS CUN PHX OAK SYD CVG PHL MAD ORY CDG SLC SJU BQN MHT YYZ STS BIS DOH BLR KTM MFM MEX MSY BWI DEN
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:29 am

I believe x1234's point was that AY might find the HEL-BOM-HEL route more profitable than HEL-KTM-HEL. Could well be. There's a ton of variables though. I'm sure they know the situation in India. And perhaps in time they will cover both.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:15 am

Antarius wrote:
x1234 wrote:
A route that is actually in demand and very profitable (feeds entire Europe + North America) is Mumbai in India. Very high shortage of capacity with Jet's demise. They should launch HEL-BOM instead.


No one is going go fly BOM-HEL-KTM.

And if not your implication, there is a plethora of ludicrous 9W threads for stuff like this. All which have nothing to do with HEL, AY or KTM.


The only person floating BOM-HEL-KTM is you :?
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:41 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
B1168 wrote:

I agree very much. Wish them good luck.
My concern is, I am not sure if KTM can handle A330-300s. I hope they can (give they handle KE 772), but if they have load sheds it would be another challenge to overcome.


Turkish used to send the A330-300 into KTM, even managed to write one off there too!

KTM gets a bunch of A330s. AFAIK: Cathay Dragon with -300s; Nepal Airlines with -200s; China Southern, Qatar Airways, Turkish Airlines with a mix of both. Previously, Etihad, Air Asia X, and Gulf Air have also served KTM with A330s. So KTM can definitely handle both variants. Weight shouldn't be an issue because there are heavier aircraft operating to KTM -- Korean Air and Thai Airways both operate Boeing 777-200s. Previously, Pakistan International Airlines has also operated Boeing 747s into KTM as substitutions.


I do agree that A330 can operate in KTM fine; my main worry for that is that the high altitude may require a load reduction... I can really use a altitude-MTOW chart to analyze.
 
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Slash787
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:53 pm

Now this is a surprise route, A330 is too big for this.

I would say A321XLR is an aircraft which should be used for these kind of routes.

Can the A321LR do this route?
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:31 pm

With Iranian and Pakistani airspace closures, this would be an interesting route.
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330lover
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:48 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
With Iranian and Pakistani airspace closures, this would be an interesting route.


I think certainly no Iran and probably no Pakistani airspace required for this route, but more like Russia - Kazachstan - China:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hel-ktm

I could see this work with 321XLR, considering AY has loads of experience with connection traffic from Europe to Asia already.
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PlymSpotter
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:57 pm

330lover wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
With Iranian and Pakistani airspace closures, this would be an interesting route.


I think certainly no Iran and probably no Pakistani airspace required for this route, but more like Russia - Kazachstan - China:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hel-ktm

I could see this work with 321XLR, considering AY has loads of experience with connection traffic from Europe to Asia already.


I'm afraid that plan won't work.

GC map is a great tool for ascertaining P2P distances, but it doesn't take into considerations the presence or direction of airways. There are no airways North / North West over the Himalayas from KTM. There is a single one North East to Lhasa, but none continue North from there over the Tibetan Plateau. An aircraft would have to fly East over China for at least 500 miles before finding a route North. And I'm not even sure if these airways are available for overflights.

Whichever route was taken into KTM from HEL, there would be a sizeable diversion as it stands. Most like 4,500nm on a Southerly route and 5,000nm on a Northerly route. Most likely a stretch for the XLR in real world conditions.
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SCQ83
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:28 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Nepal's only other link to Europe is TK to IST. If it is 3 or 4x weekly, and on the A321, no doubt there is a business case. Front cabin will probably be aid workers, regional executives of European companies and the sum of European diplomats to Nepal, and the Nepalese to European countries. Also, cargo would matter a lot. I believe this to be the easy part, due to the in-essence monopoly. The back will be backpackers and Nepalese tourists (not many but still) to Europe.


ISL is arguably not in Europe (at least mentally :)). But you have the ME3 that would capture most of the traffic from Europe now.

But I think this comes in the right time. My feeling is that the ME3+TK have lost a lot of luster in the last few years among the average European traveller. Only 5 years ago a lot of people would rather fly ME3/TK that an European carrier (if connecting). The allure of "exotic" Dubai, the A380, "cheap" business class... flying Emirates and doing a stop-over in Dubai was almost a prerequisite (at least for once) for the European traveller to Asia

But it seems that this has lately been lost. Probably a mix of fears about safety (like the terrorist attacks in IST), crowded airports like DXB, people realising that the economy class in an ME3 is not any better than in an Euro carrier, concerns about transiting in a dictatorship where you basically have no rights (and paying the same price to transit on an airport built on slavely)... and Dubai getting so yesteryear. It is clear that it is all about pricing, but today at the same price more people would rather fly "boring" Finnair over "exotic" ME3/TK than only a few years ago.
 
330lover
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:47 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
330lover wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
With Iranian and Pakistani airspace closures, this would be an interesting route.


I think certainly no Iran and probably no Pakistani airspace required for this route, but more like Russia - Kazachstan - China:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hel-ktm

I could see this work with 321XLR, considering AY has loads of experience with connection traffic from Europe to Asia already.


I'm afraid that plan won't work.

GC map is a great tool for ascertaining P2P distances, but it doesn't take into considerations the presence or direction of airways. There are no airways North / North West over the Himalayas from KTM. There is a single one North East to Lhasa, but none continue North from there over the Tibetan Plateau. An aircraft would have to fly East over China for at least 500 miles before finding a route North. And I'm not even sure if these airways are available for overflights.

Whichever route was taken into KTM from HEL, there would be a sizeable diversion as it stands. Most like 4,500nm on a Southerly route and 5,000nm on a Northerly route. Most likely a stretch for the XLR in real world conditions.


Thanks for clearing this. I know GC Map is not good for planning, but it gives an rough idea.
So no flight possibilities to get from China to Nepal the northern way? Did not know that.

If things with Pakistan get cleared (the flights HEL-KTM are far from being introduced), then it would be routed over Pakistan and India to enter Nepal?
Still no Iran required. Can they fly over Afghanistan?

Appreciate your feedback!
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YYZatcboy
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:54 am

330lover wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
330lover wrote:

I think certainly no Iran and probably no Pakistani airspace required for this route, but more like Russia - Kazachstan - China:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hel-ktm

I could see this work with 321XLR, considering AY has loads of experience with connection traffic from Europe to Asia already.


I'm afraid that plan won't work.

GC map is a great tool for ascertaining P2P distances, but it doesn't take into considerations the presence or direction of airways. There are no airways North / North West over the Himalayas from KTM. There is a single one North East to Lhasa, but none continue North from there over the Tibetan Plateau. An aircraft would have to fly East over China for at least 500 miles before finding a route North. And I'm not even sure if these airways are available for overflights.

Whichever route was taken into KTM from HEL, there would be a sizeable diversion as it stands. Most like 4,500nm on a Southerly route and 5,000nm on a Northerly route. Most likely a stretch for the XLR in real world conditions.


Actually (assuming Urumqi will allow two directs) you can actually get from KTM to europe without going through Pakistan. For those interested the route is:

KTM L626 HW W85 SP W39 LLH HTN DSC A364 KG OSH (then airways to ESSA) 


If VID134 is active above FL300 (no clue its restrictions) you could replace LLH with 36N78E

Again, I'm not sure of the airspace restrictions in that part of the world, but it is strictly speaking possible. Also I enjoyed trying to find a way that would work. Cool thread!

Thanks for clearing this. I know GC Map is not good for planning, but it gives an rough idea.
So no flight possibilities to get from China to Nepal the northern way? Did not know that.

If things with Pakistan get cleared (the flights HEL-KTM are far from being introduced), then it would be routed over Pakistan and India to enter Nepal?
Still no Iran required. Can they fly over Afghanistan?

Appreciate your feedback!




It is possible to avoid Pakistan. I found one route that might work. Not sure if it would be allowed due to airspace restrictions but it's technically possible.

KTM L626 HW W85 SP W39 LLH HTN DSC A364 KHG OSH


From OSH it should be straighforward to continue on airways. Presuming those directs would be authorized you would not need to fly over Pakistan. Cool thread, was neat to try to find a way.
Last edited by YYZatcboy on Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:06 am

Kikko19 wrote:
Which equipment would be required?


A333
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

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330lover
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:28 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
330lover wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:


It is possible to avoid Pakistan. I found one route that might work. Not sure if it would be allowed due to airspace restrictions but it's technically possible.

KTM L626 HW W85 SP W39 LLH HTN DSC A364 KHG OSH


From OSH it should be straighforward to continue on airways. Presuming those directs would be authorized you would not need to fly over Pakistan. Cool thread, was neat to try to find a way.



Thanks, but is there a way to visualize this? Those codes don't say anything to me :)
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:04 am

330lover wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:
330lover wrote:



Thanks, but is there a way to visualize this? Those codes don't say anything to me :)


Go to the website skyvector.com and then paste it in the "PLAN" box.
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330lover
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
330lover wrote:
YYZatcboy wrote:



Thanks, but is there a way to visualize this? Those codes don't say anything to me :)


Go to the website skyvector.com and then paste it in the "PLAN" box.


I have created an account, but it says it is only for flight planning, I'm no pilot whatsoever. Can I use this without problems just to have a look at this route?
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Re: Finnair proposes Kathmandu-Helsinki flights

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:04 am

YYZatcboy wrote:



It is possible to avoid Pakistan. I found one route that might work. Not sure if it would be allowed due to airspace restrictions but it's technically possible.

KTM L626 HW W85 SP W39 LLH HTN DSC A364 KHG OSH


From OSH it should be straighforward to continue on airways. Presuming those directs would be authorized you would not need to fly over Pakistan. Cool thread, was neat to try to find a way.


LOL. Good luck with that routing.

On the bright side, you won't have to wait too long before the glaciers melt and your body is recovered

This route can't be done with a narrowbody.

You need climb performance should an engine fail. An A330 would be best suited. It should able to manage a 6% OEI climb gradient with a healthy payload.

Finnair already flies over Iran and Pakistan so following on into India and approaching from the West/South would make most sense.

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