slcguy
Topic Author
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:00 am

A King Air crashed on the island of Oahu this evening. Details still coming in. First reports said 6 dead, now been updated to 9. RIP

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/6- ... y_20190622
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:08 am

A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5

AA AI CO CL DE DL EA HA KL LH N7 PA PQ SK RO TW UA YR
 
slcguy
Topic Author
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:21 pm

Latest update, now 11 fatalities. Don't know the specifics on this aircraft but if it was used for skydiving you can count on it being an older King Air (like 40+). Newer King Airs are too much in demand for private corporate flying. Plus skydiving aircraft are used hard and put away wet, worked very hard with a lot of cycles, in most cases by low time pilots trying to build hours for a better job. Maintenance can be questionable. I'm not a sky diver (firm believer in the old adage, not going to jump out of a perfectly good airplane) but most sky diving aircraft I have been around, I wouldn't get on without a parachute either.
 
commpilot
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:39 pm

The King Air 65 was the beginning of the family. It is a very under preforming airplane by today's standards. Depending on the model of 65 it either had a Take Off Gross Weight of 9,000lb or 9,300lbs. If it was a true military surplus version that wasn't pressurized and stripped to a bare cargo cabin then maybe it had a few more useful pounds. Either way you have 11 people on board, only 1 probably wasn't wearing a parachute, you are pushing your luck. By comparison, the current King Air C90 GTx has a max payload of 2,113lbs on a Take Off Gross Weight of 10,485lbs.
 
User avatar
GCT64
Posts: 1697
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:55 pm

commpilot wrote:
The King Air 65 was the beginning of the family. It is a very under preforming airplane by today's standards. Depending on the model of 65 it either had a Take Off Gross Weight of 9,000lb or 9,300lbs. If it was a true military surplus version that wasn't pressurized and stripped to a bare cargo cabin then maybe it had a few more useful pounds. Either way you have 11 people on board, only 1 probably wasn't wearing a parachute, you are pushing your luck. By comparison, the current King Air C90 GTx has a max payload of 2,113lbs on a Take Off Gross Weight of 10,485lbs.


Reported as N256TA, a 1967 King Air A90 that appears, from photos, to have been used for skydiving for at least 12 years.

There's plenty of history about this aircraft that is findable through Google searches like the 23 July 2016 incident (when the "The right horizontal stabilizer, with the elevator attached" separated from the airplane), and http://www.pmlaw.com/?p=1097 / https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2 ... csc99.html / http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/03/l ... ators.html which relate to N256TA and a sister King Air's (N17SA) crash in Canada in August 2008.
Flown in: A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..55 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
FF630
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm

Does the FAA monitor these type of aircraft like they do a scheduled airline ? These are passangers carrying planes which should be subject to strict inspections by the FAA.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2166
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:21 pm

GCT64 wrote:
commpilot wrote:
The King Air 65 was the beginning of the family. It is a very under preforming airplane by today's standards. Depending on the model of 65 it either had a Take Off Gross Weight of 9,000lb or 9,300lbs. If it was a true military surplus version that wasn't pressurized and stripped to a bare cargo cabin then maybe it had a few more useful pounds. Either way you have 11 people on board, only 1 probably wasn't wearing a parachute, you are pushing your luck. By comparison, the current King Air C90 GTx has a max payload of 2,113lbs on a Take Off Gross Weight of 10,485lbs.


Reported as N256TA, a 1967 King Air A90 that appears, from photos, to have been used for skydiving for at least 12 years.

There's plenty of history about this aircraft that is findable through Google searches like the 23 July 2016 incident (when the "The right horizontal stabilizer, with the elevator attached" separated from the airplane), and http://www.pmlaw.com/?p=1097 / https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2 ... csc99.html / http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/03/l ... ators.html which relate to N256TA and a sister King Air's (N17SA) crash in Canada in August 2008.

Looks there might have been tandem jumpers on this flight.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:24 pm

FF630 wrote:
Does the FAA monitor these type of aircraft like they do a scheduled airline ? These are passangers carrying planes which should be subject to strict inspections by the FAA.


All aircraft require at the very least a yearly annual inspection. This one was being used in commercial service, so it likely has additional 50 and 100 our inspections.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11548
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:44 pm

I've only jumped out of Pilatus Turbo Porters (and a helo), in very good condition, one even brand new, bought for the skydiving operation. My concern with a light twin engine aircraft would be that they're prone to loss of control when one engine quits, if not handled correctly.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
commpilot
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:21 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:40 pm

FF630 wrote:
Does the FAA monitor these type of aircraft like they do a scheduled airline ? These are passangers carrying planes which should be subject to strict inspections by the FAA.


The oversight by regional FSDOs into any for hire operation is low at best. There are plenty of passenger charter firms who push the limits and what is legal under their interpretation of the FARs. The lobbying groups have way to much power over the FAA. Doesn't help that the FAA is very under staffed to handle audits and actions against for hire companies. As long as there are terrible pilots who will do anything to get flight time, these companies will survive. The only thing that gets the FAA's attention anymore is a crash.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14840
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
GCT64 wrote:
commpilot wrote:
The King Air 65 was the beginning of the family. It is a very under preforming airplane by today's standards. Depending on the model of 65 it either had a Take Off Gross Weight of 9,000lb or 9,300lbs. If it was a true military surplus version that wasn't pressurized and stripped to a bare cargo cabin then maybe it had a few more useful pounds. Either way you have 11 people on board, only 1 probably wasn't wearing a parachute, you are pushing your luck. By comparison, the current King Air C90 GTx has a max payload of 2,113lbs on a Take Off Gross Weight of 10,485lbs.


Reported as N256TA, a 1967 King Air A90 that appears, from photos, to have been used for skydiving for at least 12 years.

There's plenty of history about this aircraft that is findable through Google searches like the 23 July 2016 incident (when the "The right horizontal stabilizer, with the elevator attached" separated from the airplane), and http://www.pmlaw.com/?p=1097 / https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2 ... csc99.html / http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/03/l ... ators.html which relate to N256TA and a sister King Air's (N17SA) crash in Canada in August 2008.

Looks there might have been tandem jumpers on this flight.

Yes. One pilot, five instructors to tandem with 5 customers.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MO11
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:50 pm

commpilot wrote:
FF630 wrote:
Does the FAA monitor these type of aircraft like they do a scheduled airline ? These are passangers carrying planes which should be subject to strict inspections by the FAA.


The oversight by regional FSDOs into any for hire operation is low at best. There are plenty of passenger charter firms who push the limits and what is legal under their interpretation of the FARs. The lobbying groups have way to much power over the FAA. Doesn't help that the FAA is very under staffed to handle audits and actions against for hire companies. As long as there are terrible pilots who will do anything to get flight time, these companies will survive. The only thing that gets the FAA's attention anymore is a crash.


These aren't "for hire operations" nor "charter firms". These are parachute operations, which operate under parts 91 and 105; no special certifications or pilot training.
 
User avatar
SuseJ772
Posts: 871
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:13 am

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:26 pm

MO11 wrote:
commpilot wrote:
FF630 wrote:
Does the FAA monitor these type of aircraft like they do a scheduled airline ? These are passangers carrying planes which should be subject to strict inspections by the FAA.


The oversight by regional FSDOs into any for hire operation is low at best. There are plenty of passenger charter firms who push the limits and what is legal under their interpretation of the FARs. The lobbying groups have way to much power over the FAA. Doesn't help that the FAA is very under staffed to handle audits and actions against for hire companies. As long as there are terrible pilots who will do anything to get flight time, these companies will survive. The only thing that gets the FAA's attention anymore is a crash.


These aren't "for hire operations" nor "charter firms". These are parachute operations, which operate under parts 91 and 105; no special certifications or pilot training.


Assuming those parachuting have paid to do so, the plane still needs an inspection every 100 hours (albeit not by the FAA, but by an AMT) and the pilot still has to be a commercial pilot.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
texdravid
Posts: 1788
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:24 pm

ikramerica wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
GCT64 wrote:

Reported as N256TA, a 1967 King Air A90 that appears, from photos, to have been used for skydiving for at least 12 years.

There's plenty of history about this aircraft that is findable through Google searches like the 23 July 2016 incident (when the "The right horizontal stabilizer, with the elevator attached" separated from the airplane), and http://www.pmlaw.com/?p=1097 / https://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2 ... csc99.html / http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/03/l ... ators.html which relate to N256TA and a sister King Air's (N17SA) crash in Canada in August 2008.

Looks there might have been tandem jumpers on this flight.

Yes. One pilot, five instructors to tandem with 5 customers.


And this is why I avoid risky activities like this.
Man, I have enough excitement in my life on terra firma.

On of my professors said “Tex, we all die, but rich people with lots of time die in so many useless and avoidable ways. He was referring to JFK Jr.

What a waste. RIP. But especially regrets to their families who will have to bear the burden.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Electronpusher9
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:22 pm

Not meaning to make light of the tragedy which occurred and my heart goes out to the grieving families but, shouldn’t we ground all aircraft of this make and model until we can make sure all are safe. It is not different than the 737 MAX. Any loss of life is a tragedy and needs to be properly investigated before allowing any of this type back into the air. From what I have found in a brief look is there have been 161 “incidents” since this aircraft first took to the air. Shouldn’t it to be grounded until we know what happened?
 
cschleic
Posts: 1662
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:47 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:43 pm

Electronpusher9 wrote:
Not meaning to make light of the tragedy which occurred and my heart goes out to the grieving families but, shouldn’t we ground all aircraft of this make and model until we can make sure all are safe. It is not different than the 737 MAX. Any loss of life is a tragedy and needs to be properly investigated before allowing any of this type back into the air. From what I have found in a brief look is there have been 161 “incidents” since this aircraft first took to the air. Shouldn’t it to be grounded until we know what happened?


Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. But, yes, it's very different than the 737 Max. The King Air has been in service for 55 years, it's a proven type with a good history. 161 incidents involve all types of events. The Max accidents involved two similar events, in a short period of time, with a new version of the plane, with software control changes that weren't fully understood by the crew, and that the manufacturer admits needs correcting. Not comparable at all. So, no, the King Air shouldn't be grounded.
 
flyoregon
Posts: 698
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:53 pm

cschleic wrote:
Electronpusher9 wrote:
Not meaning to make light of the tragedy which occurred and my heart goes out to the grieving families but, shouldn’t we ground all aircraft of this make and model until we can make sure all are safe. It is not different than the 737 MAX. Any loss of life is a tragedy and needs to be properly investigated before allowing any of this type back into the air. From what I have found in a brief look is there have been 161 “incidents” since this aircraft first took to the air. Shouldn’t it to be grounded until we know what happened?


Not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. But, yes, it's very different than the 737 Max. The King Air has been in service for 55 years, it's a proven type with a good history. 161 incidents involve all types of events. The Max accidents involved two similar events, in a short period of time, with a new version of the plane, with software control changes that weren't fully understood by the crew, and that the manufacturer admits needs correcting. Not comparable at all. So, no, the King Air shouldn't be grounded.


Agreed. King Air's don't need to be grounded. The operator on the other hand maybe should.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 11548
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:28 pm

Light aircraft are often grounded until a structural or control part, or engine part, can be checked and replaced if necessary. Sometimes after one accident, when the cause is found, sometimes after several accidents (including such horrors are wings separating in flight).

This crash doesn't indicate any problem with the aircraft so far.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Electronpusher9
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: King Air crash in Hawaii, with multiple fatalities

Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:33 pm

Being very sarcastic. I see the grounding as a way for other interested parties to punish Boeing.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos