AMS18C36C
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PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:39 pm

Here’s some news on a carrier, not discussed much on a.net, Surinam Airways.

As the sources are in Dutch, here is a summary:
* PY’s A340-300 is 20 years old, and the lease will expire at the end of this year.
* PY will lease a Boeing 777-200ER from Boeing, which will also provide the maintenance.
* The aircraft is 9V-SVL, an ex-SQ and NZ bird, which has been stored since April 2019, per airfleets.net.
* The new 777 will arrive in October.
* Aim is to eventually obtain a 787.

The 777 will replace the A340 on the PBM-AMS route.

Sources:
http://www.starnieuws.com/index.php/wel ... item/53271 (in Dutch)
https://www.upinthesky.nl/2019/06/22/sl ... oeing-777/ (in Dutch)
https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b777-32336.htm
 
KFTG
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:42 pm

That's going to look very nice in their livery.
 
Rom1
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:19 pm

Can A330 fly the route?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:27 pm

Is it because Boeing will do the maintenance, PY will receive ETOPS? Seems that PY will stay 15 years behind in aircraft upgrades, so we will see the B787 introduced in 2030?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:27 pm

Rom1 wrote:
Can A330 fly the route?


A339 probably yes.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
76er
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:46 pm

Well, KL flies AMS-AUA with the A333, which is about 200NM further than PBM. So it should be quite possible with the Bus. Dunno how much spare weight would be available for cargo though. And older versions of the 333 will most likely be less capable.
 
debonair
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:25 pm

Rom1 wrote:
Can A330 fly the route?


For the -200, in a typical 2class layout, for sure. But the demand for cargo will be the problem... Otherwise, will PY keep the SQ interior? Could be a real game changer, compared to the A340.
 
Thibault973
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:45 pm

debonair wrote:
Rom1 wrote:
Can A330 fly the route?


For the -200, in a typical 2class layout, for sure. But the demand for cargo will be the problem... Otherwise, will PY keep the SQ interior? Could be a real game changer, compared to the A340.


Why ? TX flies the 332 and 332 on their ORY-CAY route in high densities config without pbm and I can’t really see this route carrying less cargo than AMS-PBM considering almost everything sold in French Guiana is imported from the French mainland.
 
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LX015
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:58 pm

[quote="Rom1"]Can A330 fly the route?[/quote

Depends on the vintage I would say. I doubt a 20yr old frame would be in the running but a 233T and higher should handle that with no problem.
 
na
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:47 pm

After the 743 and the A343 another aging plane which won´t last longer than the next D-check.
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:09 pm

na wrote:
After the 743 and the A343 another aging plane which won´t last longer than the next D-check.

May be different in this case, as Boeing is doing the maintenance for them, with the ultimate aim of them getting a 787.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:12 pm

If cargo is important why don’t they take an ex. CX/EK/9W 77W?
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
hooverman
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:33 pm

BasilFawlty wrote:
If cargo is important why don’t they take an ex. CX/EK/9W 77W?


Because the 77W would be overkill?
Remember Kenya Airways also had the 77W and they also carry lots of cargo but still the 77W was too large for them.
I think the 77E is the right plane for them.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:18 pm

debonair wrote:
For the -200, in a typical 2class layout, for sure. But the demand for cargo will be the problem... Otherwise, will PY keep the SQ interior? Could be a real game changer, compared to the A340.


They did keep the interior of all their previous aircraft. So far they've had:

Several DC-8-50 and 60/70, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One 747-300, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One A340-300, ex Air France, kept the Air France interior
One A340-300, ex Air China, kept the Air China interior

The ex KLM and Air France birds all had nice interiors, only their last (current) A340 is less. When they first put it into service, people were complaining that it was not as comfortable as they were used to. Lower seat pitch and such.

As the 777 has flown for two airlines with both very comfortable interiors, it's bound to be good.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:45 pm

BasilFawlty wrote:
If cargo is important why don’t they take an ex. CX/EK/9W 77W?

Because they don't need a plane of 77W's size. For a lot of smaller airlines 77W would be a plain overkill.

Michael
 
VSMUT
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:52 pm

hooverman wrote:
I think the 77E is the right plane for them.


The A330 or 787 is the right plane for them. They are hardly making it a secret that this is all about getting a cheap plane. 777-200ERs are dirt cheap, they can be had for practically scrap value. 242t A330-300s, A330-900s and 787s can't.
 
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OA940
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:41 pm

Not meaning to judge/take sides here in A vs B, but isn't the 359 a better suit for them? Doesn't it have more cargo than the 78J (which I assume is the one they're planning to order, as it has basically the same capacity)?

The 777 will look absolutely fabulous in PY livery. I hope they do something with the interior though. Even ex-SQ with their amazing products is a bit outdated for 2019 standards. I guess it doesn't really matter to them what cabin they have, but it would be nice to see a refreshed interior. Could they update the IFE without changing the seats? Even though SQ's config is probably a tad too premium-heavy for them.
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:19 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
debonair wrote:
For the -200, in a typical 2class layout, for sure. But the demand for cargo will be the problem... Otherwise, will PY keep the SQ interior? Could be a real game changer, compared to the A340.


They did keep the interior of all their previous aircraft. So far they've had:

Several DC-8-50 and 60/70, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One 747-300, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One A340-300, ex Air France, kept the Air France interior
One A340-300, ex Air China, kept the Air China interior

The ex KLM and Air France birds all had nice interiors, only their last (current) A340 is less. When they first put it into service, people were complaining that it was not as comfortable as they were used to. Lower seat pitch and such.

As the 777 has flown for two airlines with both very comfortable interiors, it's bound to be good.

Air New Zealand flew 9V-SVL in its original SQ configuration, no changes were made during its short period with NZ. With that being said, the "new" J class will be a huge step up from current ex-Air China A343 J offering.

J class:
https://www.flickriver.com/photos/zk-ngj/42394301375/

Y class:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zk-ngj/29428750888
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:23 pm

OA940 wrote:
Not meaning to judge/take sides here in A vs B, but isn't the 359 a better suit for them? Doesn't it have more cargo than the 78J (which I assume is the one they're planning to order, as it has basically the same capacity)?

The 777 will look absolutely fabulous in PY livery. I hope they do something with the interior though. Even ex-SQ with their amazing products is a bit outdated for 2019 standards. I guess it doesn't really matter to them what cabin they have, but it would be nice to see a refreshed interior. Could they update the IFE without changing the seats? Even though SQ's config is probably a tad too premium-heavy for them.

They don't have the money to splurge on those luxury, even more so since they only have one or two widebody aircraft fleet. They will fly the B777 till it is due for next D check and source for another pre-loved aircraft at desert bargain corner. They won't be buying new air plane that's for sure.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
76er
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:57 pm


As the 777 has flown for two airlines with both very comfortable interiors, it's bound to be good.


So we’re talking 9 abreast then? Good for the customer no doubt, but what about PY’s bottom line? How many total seats are we talking anyway?
 
hooverman
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:59 am

VSMUT wrote:
hooverman wrote:
I think the 77E is the right plane for them.


The A330 or 787 is the right plane for them. They are hardly making it a secret that this is all about getting a cheap plane. 777-200ERs are dirt cheap, they can be had for practically scrap value. 242t A330-300s, A330-900s and 787s can't.


That’s right but I mean as a stopgap until the B787 arrives.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:59 am

They will already be happy if this 777 won't go tech as much as their current A340. With just 1 plane they already have to bring in wet leases during regular maintenance, with the A340 they had to do it way to often to keep the losses manageable.
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:35 am

juliuswong wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
debonair wrote:
Forr the -200, in a typical 2class layout, for sure. But the demand for cargo will be the problem... Otherwise, will PY keep the SQ interior? Could be a real game changer, compared to the A340.


They did keep the interior of all their previous aircraft. So far they've had:

Several DC-8-50 and 60/70, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One 747-300, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One A340-300, ex Air France, kept the Air France interior
One A340-300, ex Air China, kept the Air China interior

The ex KLM and Air France birds all had nice interiors, only their last (current) A340 is less. When they first put it into service, people were complaining that it was not as comfortable as they were used to. Lower seat pitch and such.

As the 777 has flown for two airlines with both very comfortable interiors, it's bound to be good.

Air New Zealand flew 9V-SVL in its original SQ configuration, no changes were made during its short period with NZ. With that being said, the "new" J class will be a huge step up from current ex-Air China A343 J offering.

J class:
https://www.flickriver.com/photos/zk-ngj/42394301375/

Y class:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zk-ngj/29428750888


Ironically this aircraft got an pretty bad rap for New Zealand public due to the dated production on-board! It’s sister ship still in NZ’s fleet still gets an bad rap. NZ did nothing to them expect keeping them flying while an bunch of 789s sat around waiting In the hangar.

Shows how spoiled the average westerner traveler has become, when we get upset that we didn’t get free wifi on our flight.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:52 am

VSMUT wrote:
hooverman wrote:
I think the 77E is the right plane for them.


The A330 or 787 is the right plane for them. They are hardly making it a secret that this is all about getting a cheap plane. 777-200ERs are dirt cheap, they can be had for practically scrap value. 242t A330-300s, A330-900s and 787s can't.

Is the 777-200ER a better cargo hauler than the 787-9?
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:05 am

blacksoviet wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
hooverman wrote:
I think the 77E is the right plane for them.


The A330 or 787 is the right plane for them. They are hardly making it a secret that this is all about getting a cheap plane. 777-200ERs are dirt cheap, they can be had for practically scrap value. 242t A330-300s, A330-900s and 787s can't.

Is the 777-200ER a better cargo hauler than the 787-9?


Marginally better maybe. I'm going to hazard a guess that the added fuel burn doesn't make it a better deal in this regard.

IMO, cargo hauling relevance is being overestimated in this thread. They operated the smaller A340-300 for a decade now. The 787-9 alone will carry more cargo over that one. What is relevant is the ability to carry both a full load of cargo and passengers non-stop. Early A330-300s would be hard stretched to do that.
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:24 am

Good for Surinam Airways, and I'm sure the 777 will look good in their livery. But I will miss their A340 at Schiphol.
PY's four-engined aircraft have provided some nice seasoning at AMS for years. I remember the colourful DC8's they flew when the type had become quite rare already; later they had an ex-KLM B747-306 which was one of the last passenger 747 classics to be seen regularly at AMS, and subsequently they've been flying A340s that are now quickly becoming an endangered species. AMS will soon become just a little more boring again from an enthusiast's point of view. .
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:32 am

Dutchy wrote:
Is it because Boeing will do the maintenance, PY will receive ETOPS?


That's a good point, and an interesting 'fix' for the quandary that smaller airlines will encounter as quads are phased-out.
 
IWMBH
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:34 am

Still curious how they will deal with the fact they don’t have ETOPS. All the sources I’ve read so far say that they will receive ETOPS on short notice, but they’ve been saying that for quite some time.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 am

Not mine, but that'll be a fine looking 777
Image
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FatCat
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:03 am

You have to check out Surinam Airways' video when the 743 was delivered. It is perfect for a Monday morning.
Back to the topic, I think a 77E is more than enough for this route. Also, the 77E is a perfect choice, being the plane used also by KLM, they surely can do some maintenance in AMS, if needed (even if the maintenance will be done by Boeing itself ) - Surinam Airways' A343 was the only A340 landing and departing AMS on scheduled service, not very popular there.
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Iemand91
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:11 am

TurboJet707 wrote:
Good for Surinam Airways, and I'm sure the 777 will look good in their livery. But I will miss their A340 at Schiphol.
PY's four-engined aircraft have provided some nice seasoning at AMS for years. I remember the colourful DC8's they flew when the type had become quite rare already; later they had an ex-KLM B747-306 which was one of the last passenger 747 classics to be seen regularly at AMS, and subsequently they've been flying A340s that are now quickly becoming an endangered species. AMS will soon become just a little more boring again from an enthusiast's point of view. .

This. Very much this. Everyone is raving about the 787's, A350's etc. (and I get it) but as an aviation enthousiast like me, those are just more of the same thing.
Just look at any international airport these days and it's all looking pretty much the same, especially when you compare it to 10-20 years ago.
(Apart from FRA maybe; with Lufthansa's wide range of aircraft)

Another sad thing for us AMS spotters; the PY 777 will start operating around November 1st this year; while the last Air Mauritius flight to Amsterdam is on October 25.
So within one week's time; AMS will loose all (scheduled) A340 operations :cry: ...
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dredgy
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:02 am

Remember seeing it in Paramaribo, beautiful aircraft. A340s going faster than I can book flights on them!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:38 am

A wise decision, driven mostly by lease rates I assume, which are pretty cheap for the 777-200ER at the moment.
Almost half of those for an A330, and not even comparable to those of a B787.

The pax will surely appreciate the interior upgrade as well.
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juliuswong
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:27 am

zkncj wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

They did keep the interior of all their previous aircraft. So far they've had:

Several DC-8-50 and 60/70, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One 747-300, ex KLM, kept the KLM interior
One A340-300, ex Air France, kept the Air France interior
One A340-300, ex Air China, kept the Air China interior

The ex KLM and Air France birds all had nice interiors, only their last (current) A340 is less. When they first put it into service, people were complaining that it was not as comfortable as they were used to. Lower seat pitch and such.

As the 777 has flown for two airlines with both very comfortable interiors, it's bound to be good.

Air New Zealand flew 9V-SVL in its original SQ configuration, no changes were made during its short period with NZ. With that being said, the "new" J class will be a huge step up from current ex-Air China A343 J offering.

J class:
https://www.flickriver.com/photos/zk-ngj/42394301375/

Y class:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/zk-ngj/29428750888


Ironically this aircraft got an pretty bad rap for New Zealand public due to the dated production on-board! It’s sister ship still in NZ’s fleet still gets an bad rap. NZ did nothing to them expect keeping them flying while an bunch of 789s sat around waiting In the hangar.

Shows how spoiled the average westerner traveler has become, when we get upset that we didn’t get free wifi on our flight.

Yes, I have heard off the bad raps. Sub aircraft has never recieved good feedback unless it's B748 or A380. I'm surprised Singapore Airlines didn't strip out premium cabin interior prior to retirement. They did that with most of their retired fleet except one or two B744. Tbh, if I'm a traveller. I rather have a substitute aircraft rather than having flight cancellation. I mean come on you have use all the data and 4G on ground, yet you want to bring it up to sky? Gosh, I do hope airlines charges an arm and a leg for the Wi-Fi. Give me B737-200Adv over B787 any day.. .
Last edited by juliuswong on Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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debonair
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:29 am

Thibault973 wrote:
Why ? TX flies the 332 and 332 on their ORY-CAY route in high densities config without pbm and I can’t really see this route carrying less cargo than AMS-PBM considering almost everything sold in French Guiana is imported from the French mainland.


I can remember the good old days of LTU - flying the A330-300 from DUS to MIA, with a high payload restriction. Maybe TX -300 have additional fuel tanks?

PatrickZ80 wrote:
They did keep the interior of all their previous aircraft. So far they've had:
One A340-300, ex Air China, kept the Air China interior


Are you sure? I thought all AirChina A340's had a FirstClass, which seems to be removed... I also compared pictures of the BusinessClass and the seats of AirChina and PY doesn't match at all... :scratchchin:
 
A388
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:05 pm

Where will they be getting that 787 from? I assume it will be secondhand too? To my knowledge there still are a few terrible teens 787 parked in the desert, is that correct? Maybe they will get one of those?

In any case, this is good news for PY.


A388
 
AviationAddict
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:28 pm

A388 wrote:
Where will they be getting that 787 from? I assume it will be secondhand too? To my knowledge there still are a few terrible teens 787 parked in the desert, is that correct? Maybe they will get one of those?

In any case, this is good news for PY.


A388


They'll have the 77E for a few years and by the time that aircraft is ready to be retired PY is probably betting on early build 787s coming off lease and hitting the second-hand market.

I'm pretty sure all the terrible teens are finally spoken for with the possible exception of the former Mexican Air Force unit. I believe that one was returned to Boeing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:32 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
A388 wrote:
Where will they be getting that 787 from? I assume it will be secondhand too? To my knowledge there still are a few terrible teens 787 parked in the desert, is that correct? Maybe they will get one of those?

In any case, this is good news for PY.


A388


They'll have the 77E for a few years and by the time that aircraft is ready to be retired PY is probably betting on early build 787s coming off lease and hitting the second-hand market.

I'm pretty sure all the terrible teens are finally spoken for with the possible exception of the former Mexican Air Force unit. I believe that one was returned to Boeing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

All of the early birds have been sold off. Mexico still owns their presidential aircraft- they are just trying to sell it to cut down on government costs.
 
A388
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Okay thanks for the updates AviationAddict and Polot. Now I'm wondering which airline will have expiring 787-8 contracts by that time. By that time the 787-8 will be flying 10 years which isn't old for an airplane. Maybe NH?

A388
Last edited by A388 on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AviationAddict
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm

Polot wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
A388 wrote:
Where will they be getting that 787 from? I assume it will be secondhand too? To my knowledge there still are a few terrible teens 787 parked in the desert, is that correct? Maybe they will get one of those?

In any case, this is good news for PY.


A388


They'll have the 77E for a few years and by the time that aircraft is ready to be retired PY is probably betting on early build 787s coming off lease and hitting the second-hand market.

I'm pretty sure all the terrible teens are finally spoken for with the possible exception of the former Mexican Air Force unit. I believe that one was returned to Boeing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

All of the early birds have been sold off. Mexico still owns their presidential aircraft- they are just trying to sell it to cut down on government costs.


:thumbsup:
 
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Dutchy
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:41 am

PARAMARIBO - Director Gerard Lau of Surinam Airways has been suspended by the Supervisory Board. This is reported by De Ware Tijd. Reason would be the deal that Lau entered into on the lease of a Boeing 777-200ER as a replacement for the current Airbus A340-300.

According to the newspaper, Lau acted at its own discretion, while the Surinamese government, which owns Surinam Airways, had set its sights on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. This means that the scheduled service between Paramaribo and Schiphol must be maintained.

Lau succeeded Robbi Lachmising last year as chief executive of the Surinamese airline. His contract, which expires next week, would not be extended because of the deal with Boeing. The codeshare agreement with TUI was also terminated under his rule.


https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... oeing-deal

Interesting, Surinam Airways seems to be a little SAA, too much political influence. What do politicians know about planes and airline economics, but somehow they are still perfectly fine with choosing the 787.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
PARAMARIBO - Director Gerard Lau of Surinam Airways has been suspended by the Supervisory Board. This is reported by De Ware Tijd. Reason would be the deal that Lau entered into on the lease of a Boeing 777-200ER as a replacement for the current Airbus A340-300.

According to the newspaper, Lau acted at its own discretion, while the Surinamese government, which owns Surinam Airways, had set its sights on a Boeing 787 Dreamliner. This means that the scheduled service between Paramaribo and Schiphol must be maintained.

Lau succeeded Robbi Lachmising last year as chief executive of the Surinamese airline. His contract, which expires next week, would not be extended because of the deal with Boeing. The codeshare agreement with TUI was also terminated under his rule.


https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... oeing-deal

Interesting, Surinam Airways seems to be a little SAA, too much political influence. What do politicians know about planes and airline economics, but somehow they are still perfectly fine with choosing the 787.


I'm not partial to the airline's finances or lease rates, but have they considered that maybe the director decided that the economics stack up better for the 777 than keeping the A340 or acquiring a 787? What does a 787 offer that a 777 can't besides being newer and having a lower cabin pressure, and why is it so important that they get a 787? What's the issue providing it maintains the link to AMS? Is it likely there will be a 787 in good condition available at the right price any time soon or in the medium-term?

Perhaps it's best if the government just left the airline to it and let those who know what they're doing make the decisions.
 
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:10 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
Is it likely there will be a 787 in good condition available at the right price any time soon or in the medium-term?


Air Austral is getting rid of its pair of 787-8s.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:22 pm

Their colours did look good on the 743.

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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:41 pm

I’m not sure why so many people are surprised about the choice of the 777-200ER. Singapore Airlines has retired about 40 777s after about 16 years of operation. There is plenty of life in the airplane. Many of the 777s have ended up in Russia. The airplanes are assets with useable life remaining, so it makes sense for an airline like Suriname Airways to pick them up and fly the, for 5-10 years. The advantage is that the lease rates for 777-200ERs are very low. 787s and A330s displaced many 777s so the used market can be appealing for a small airline without the cash to afford expensive lease payments
 
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lightsaber
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Re: PY to replace A340 with B777

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:52 pm

OA940 wrote:
Not meaning to judge/take sides here in A vs B, but isn't the 359 a better suit for them? Doesn't it have more cargo than the 78J (which I assume is the one they're planning to order, as it has basically the same capacity)?

The 777 will look absolutely fabulous in PY livery. I hope they do something with the interior though. Even ex-SQ with their amazing products is a bit outdated for 2019 standards. I guess it doesn't really matter to them what cabin they have, but it would be nice to see a refreshed interior. Could they update the IFE without changing the seats? Even though SQ's config is probably a tad too premium-heavy for them.

What level of utilization does this airline fly? The A359 is very expensive. Up to $148 million each. An airline must fly 10+ hours per day to benefit over that high fixed cost.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1422705

Cargo is only high value for the airlines with excellent distribution whom receive a premium (LH, EK, DL, KL). Unless you have a niche, cargo pays less per kg than ULCC Y. The above listed airlines have excellent cold networks so flowers and pharmaceuticals fly on them at a premium. LH is famous for handling high value cargo. EK, of all things, distributes formula and other racing cars. PY? I'm sure they take cargo, but unlikely at a high premium.

My back of the envelope estimate points to an airline that must buy used. Looking at the same link, the 77E is a great value at $12M to $54M. Good cargo.

Al low utilization at great cargo, used 77Ws are starting to enter the market and will fill the niche.

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