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Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:14 am
by 797
The first Delta Boeing 767-400(ER) to feature the carrier's latest DeltaOne Business Class product has completed interior modifications in Guangzhou, China.

New cabin configuration:
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

This is a tremendous upgrade to what's available now on DL's 763/764 fleet.

Link with photos: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/delta-c ... rbishment/

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:32 am
by grbauc
Thank you...

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:37 am
by panamair
The photos in the linked article are the same artist renditions from a few months ago when they first announced LHR would be the first market; hopefully we will get some real photos soon with the return of N828MH stateside.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:01 am
by AF773
Isn't the word "suite" a tiny bit of an exaggeration or am I missing something?

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:36 am
by AlexBrewster03
AF773 wrote:
Isn't the word "suite" a tiny bit of an exaggeration or am I missing something?

It is, and I think DL isn’t calling them suites

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:39 am
by fraspotter
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? Article is saying it left for China on January 1, 2019 and has been there ever since.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:44 am
by x1234
fraspotter, I believe this is the first aircraft so it requires both manufacturer on-site support and FAA certification and test flying.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:54 am
by AdEd
It had issues with the wireless IFE system according to the DL WB thread.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:11 am
by FlightLevel360
What type of economy seat? The cheaper B/E (CS100) or more fully featured Recaro 3710 (A350)?

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:30 am
by SQ789
Similar to the A350, but no suite.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:02 am
by max999
797 wrote:
The first Delta Boeing 767-400(ER) to feature the carrier's latest DeltaOne Business Class product has completed interior modifications in Guangzhou, China.

New cabin configuration:
• 34 DeltaOne suites
• 20 Premium Select
• 28 Comfort
• 156 Main Cabin

This is a tremendous upgrade to what's available now on DL's 763/764 fleet.

Link with photos: https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/delta-c ... rbishment/


The 767s will not receive suites as stated by this quote from the article:

'Due to the thin fuselage of the Boeing 767, modified 767-400(ER)s will not feature Delta’s popular Delta One Suites as found on the carrier’s A350-900 and 777-200(ER/LR) aircraft.'

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:24 am
by TK787
Any idea, what rate this will be completed for the 767-400 fleet? I have a flight mid March'20, maybe I'll get one of those DeltaOne seats :)

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:25 am
by FromCDGtoSYD
Have they found a miracle solution to increase the size of the footwell? That is one of my biggest gripes with the current seat

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:27 am
by kengo
"Due to the thin fuselage of the Boeing 767"

Thin fuselage?! I guess the writer wanted to say due to the narrow fuselage of the Boeing 767.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:28 am
by smi0006
If I’m honest this doesn’t seem that huge a leap over the current seat to be worth the investment. Completely understand it for the 777s a generational leap, but this version sans doors seems not sufficient to warrant the modifications.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:41 am
by StudiodeKadent
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Have they found a miracle solution to increase the size of the footwell? That is one of my biggest gripes with the current seat


Delta's original 767 1-2-1 product was the very first generation of Thompson Vantage IIRC. This new seat seems to be the latest version of that same product/platform. It'll probably be a noticeable improvement over the originals yet still a little tight.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:59 am
by AdEd
TK787 wrote:
Any idea, what rate this will be completed for the 767-400 fleet? I have a flight mid March'20, maybe I'll get one of those DeltaOne seats :)


Also from the DL WB thread, 4 per month beginning Fall.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:16 pm
by LawAndOrder
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Have they found a miracle solution to increase the size of the footwell? That is one of my biggest gripes with the current seat


The foot well is much wider. It’s much more private as well. The designers were smart in where they reduced width between the 339 and 76D. Besides it not having a door it will be very comparable to the suite.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:20 pm
by LawAndOrder
smi0006 wrote:
If I’m honest this doesn’t seem that huge a leap over the current seat to be worth the investment. Completely understand it for the 777s a generational leap, but this version sans doors seems not sufficient to warrant the modifications.


It really is though. The current seat is very boxy small footwell no privacy, small old tv really only current positive is that it lies flat. The new one is private (even without a door), decent size footwell more aligned with 339/359, large tv, redefined work space. Better trim and finishes. Majority of people wouldn’t know it’s the same seat.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:30 pm
by spinotter
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? Article is saying it left for China on January 1, 2019 and has been there ever since.


Come July 1st it will be six months, so not six months yet.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:51 pm
by Armodeen
Flew a 763 out and 764 back last year in eco and the difference was night and day. Glad DL is putting in the effort with these rare birds.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:16 pm
by carljanderson
2-2-2 in Premium Select!

May have to look for routings with a 764 when I can..

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:22 pm
by pezzy669
Flew a 764 domestically from ATL-DEN last year and economy was tired even then. I'm pretty certain the 764, 772 and 772LR were the oldest long haul hard products after the A330 and 763's (except domestic) had their refurbs.

Once they get done with these they will only have some older IFE product remaining on just a few 738's and a handful of 757's, Think the A319 and A320's didn't have any older product recycled with their refurbs.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:49 pm
by panamair
Delta put out a press release today about the refurbished 764s and mentioned other routes which will be getting this reconfigured plane. It also looks like almost all of them will be done by Q2 2020 since the flights/routes mentioned pretty much account for the 21 frames:

https://news.delta.com/delta-rolls-out- ... th-america

Interesting ones include South America (JFK-GRU and ATL-EZE) and pretty much all LHR flights except for SLC (MSP and PDX will both get this aircraft). Also interesting to note they have created a self-serve snack/bar area in Delta One...

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:00 pm
by commpilot
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? Article is saying it left for China on January 1, 2019 and has been there ever since.

New cabins get installed when the plane gets stripped to the bones for normal heavy MX checks so yes 6 months is a good time frame especially when fitting a new cabin into a new plane. It's aviation, nothing ever goes 100% right all the time.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:02 pm
by ethernal
StudiodeKadent wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Have they found a miracle solution to increase the size of the footwell? That is one of my biggest gripes with the current seat


Delta's original 767 1-2-1 product was the very first generation of Thompson Vantage IIRC. This new seat seems to be the latest version of that same product/platform. It'll probably be a noticeable improvement over the originals yet still a little tight.


It will be garbage. If anything, it will be more garbage as they are wasting even more space on aesthetics. I'm very disappointed that Delta didn't go with a competitive offering for their 767s.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:17 pm
by NateGreat
ethernal wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Have they found a miracle solution to increase the size of the footwell? That is one of my biggest gripes with the current seat


Delta's original 767 1-2-1 product was the very first generation of Thompson Vantage IIRC. This new seat seems to be the latest version of that same product/platform. It'll probably be a noticeable improvement over the originals yet still a little tight.


It will be garbage. If anything, it will be more garbage as they are wasting even more space on aesthetics. I'm very disappointed that Delta didn't go with a competitive offering for their 767s.

They should have gone for a 1-1-1 Suites retrofit.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:24 pm
by NateGreat
panamair wrote:
Delta put out a press release today about the refurbished 764s and mentioned other routes which will be getting this reconfigured plane. It also looks like almost all of them will be done by Q2 2020 since the flights/routes mentioned pretty much account for the 21 frames:

https://news.delta.com/delta-rolls-out- ... th-america

Interesting ones include South America (JFK-GRU and ATL-EZE) and pretty much all LHR flights except for SLC (MSP and PDX will both get this aircraft). Also interesting to note they have created a self-serve snack/bar area in Delta One...

I wonder if the bar will be anything like what AA has in the biz class galley of their newer widebodies.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:45 pm
by xxcr
The new seats on the 764 look no different than their current J seats. These just look like a modified version of their old J seats, which IMO was extremely small and cramped. If they really wanted to, they could of modified their suites seat so that it would work on the 764. DL just got lazy....

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:00 pm
by AlexBrewster03
IDC what the haters think, I like this updated version of the seats. Besides not having a door, I think that these seats will be a big upgrade over their current product and fix most of the problems with the current version

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:08 pm
by Elementalism
Nice, MSP to LHR. Might get on one of these next year for Farmborough.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:22 pm
by B737Driver
NateGreat wrote:
panamair wrote:
Delta put out a press release today about the refurbished 764s and mentioned other routes which will be getting this reconfigured plane. It also looks like almost all of them will be done by Q2 2020 since the flights/routes mentioned pretty much account for the 21 frames:

https://news.delta.com/delta-rolls-out- ... th-america

Interesting ones include South America (JFK-GRU and ATL-EZE) and pretty much all LHR flights except for SLC (MSP and PDX will both get this aircraft). Also interesting to note they have created a self-serve snack/bar area in Delta One...

I wonder if the bar will be anything like what AA has in the biz class galley of their newer widebodies.


The bar is a standard galley countertop, with a viewing window on the side.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:53 pm
by SeanM1997
London Heathrow will see 6 of its 7 Delta routes served by B767-400 in Summer 2020
- Atlanta (ATL) 2x daily
- Boston (BOS) 1x daily
- Detroit (DTW) 2x daily
- Minneapolis (MSP) 1x daily
- New York JFK (JFK) 2x daily
- Portland (PDX) 1x daily

The Salt Lake City (SLC) 1x daily route will be B767-300 so London Heathrow will be all B767 in S20

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:53 pm
by ethernal
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
IDC what the haters think, I like this updated version of the seats. Besides not having a door, I think that these seats will be a big upgrade over their current product and fix most of the problems with the current version


What proof supports this claim? The fundamental design issues (not wide enough at the shoulders or at the feet) are not solved with this refresh. They look aesthetically more pleasing but that is it.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:09 pm
by mhockey31091
Did they fix the issue where you have to move everything off the thing beside you to retrieve and stow the tray table? That was the most annoying thing to try and put the pillows and blankets somewhere and try and get out the tray table. Not much room for storage on the old seat.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:21 pm
by AlexBrewster03
ethernal wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
IDC what the haters think, I like this updated version of the seats. Besides not having a door, I think that these seats will be a big upgrade over their current product and fix most of the problems with the current version


What proof supports this claim? The fundamental design issues (not wide enough at the shoulders or at the feet) are not solved with this refresh. They look aesthetically more pleasing but that is it.

I said MOST, not all. I do wish the seats were wider, but Ive heard that the footwell will be wider, which is good, but don’t quote me on that.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:21 pm
by ikramerica
commpilot wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? Article is saying it left for China on January 1, 2019 and has been there ever since.

New cabins get installed when the plane gets stripped to the bones for normal heavy MX checks so yes 6 months is a good time frame especially when fitting a new cabin into a new plane. It's aviation, nothing ever goes 100% right all the time.

There’s also the issue of the first plane needing to be documented (installation process, final result) and have some certification work.

The first of anything takes way longer than the 10th.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:23 pm
by dcaproducer
carljanderson wrote:
2-2-2 in Premium Select!

May have to look for routings with a 764 when I can..


That is going to be very popular, especially on the relatively shorter long haul Europe routes. (Shorter compared to the Asian routes)
I’ll just be happy to have the better IFE screen and larger footwell in D1.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:28 pm
by ethernal
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
ethernal wrote:
AlexBrewster03 wrote:
IDC what the haters think, I like this updated version of the seats. Besides not having a door, I think that these seats will be a big upgrade over their current product and fix most of the problems with the current version


What proof supports this claim? The fundamental design issues (not wide enough at the shoulders or at the feet) are not solved with this refresh. They look aesthetically more pleasing but that is it.

I said MOST, not all. I do wish the seats were wider, but Ive heard that the footwell will be wider, which is good, but don’t quote me on that.


So it fixes most of the issues except the most critical issues of all?

Hypothetically, even if they made the footwell wider, that just means that the shoulders are even less wide. And I already can't lay down flat as-is.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:13 pm
by MartijnNL
commpilot wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? (...)

New cabins get installed when the plane gets stripped to the bones for normal heavy MX checks so yes 6 months is a good time frame especially when fitting a new cabin into a new plane. (...)

Swiss is in the process of renewing the cabin of their A340's. The planes are completely stripped on the inside. According to the airline not a single cabin item is left untouched. This refurbishment takes six weeks, so six months looks awfully long.

You can read the Swiss blog post here:
https://blog.swiss.com/en/2019/06/new-cabin-interior/

Member LAXintl posted this information about a week ago in a discussion about the Air France A380 interior.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:30 pm
by MaxiAir
MartijnNL wrote:
commpilot wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? (...)

New cabins get installed when the plane gets stripped to the bones for normal heavy MX checks so yes 6 months is a good time frame especially when fitting a new cabin into a new plane. (...)

Swiss is in the process of renewing the cabin of their A340's. The planes are completely stripped on the inside. According to the airline not a single cabin item is left untouched. This refurbishment takes six weeks, so six months looks awfully long.


Never compare the first, the STC layover with one down the line. The following ones will always be faster, given that material changes can be implemented fast enough

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:32 pm
by MSPNWA
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? Article is saying it left for China on January 1, 2019 and has been there ever since.


No. It's usually around 4 months. But there was talk about DL deferring the start of maintenance on these birds, and that would explain the extra time.

ethernal wrote:
What proof supports this claim? The fundamental design issues (not wide enough at the shoulders or at the feet) are not solved with this refresh. They look aesthetically more pleasing but that is it.


I agree. The only way to significantly increase the seat width and footwell space was to change the configuration into 1-1-1 or 1-1-1/1-2-1. Clearly keeping the seat density was more important. They might have been able to shave an inch or so in the footwell, but we won't know until we see the real product. This is more like a refreshed version of what they have now. Storage, privacy, and IFE should be improved, but it's lipstick on a pig.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:18 am
by NateGreat
Here is my take on what we know about the new 767-400 cabin, in terms of pros and cons.

Pros:
-Improved Delta One seat with a larger, more modern IFE, Delta One Suite aesthetics, and a privacy divider for the middle seaters.
-Self serve snack bar area for Delta One passengers.
-Delta Premium Select has been added, plus it’s in a somewhat roomy 2-2-2 configuration.
-Brand new seats in Comfort+ and Main Cabin, which have retained the 2-3-2 configuration which is standard on the 767.
-All seats have a newer IFE system.
-Colorful LED mood lighting has been installed throughout the entire cabin, giving the entire plane a newer and more modern feel.

Cons:
-The only real con here is that this new Delta One seat appears to be not too different from the somewhat cramped and outdated current product found on both the 767-400 and 767-300ER. The seat itself does not appear to be all that competitive, in comparison to say, a 1-1-1 Delta One Suite configuration.

Conclusion:
-Overall, I think this retrofit is definitely a major improvement over the old 767-400 cabin product. Alongside the pre-refurbished 777-200ER/LR, the 767-400 is the most tired and outdated widebody in the Delta fleet, in terms of the cabin. I look forward to trying out this new cabin product for myself in the near future.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:08 am
by AdEd
MartijnNL wrote:
commpilot wrote:
fraspotter wrote:
Is it normal for "maintenance and heavy refurbishments" to take almost 7 months to complete? (...)

New cabins get installed when the plane gets stripped to the bones for normal heavy MX checks so yes 6 months is a good time frame especially when fitting a new cabin into a new plane. (...)

Swiss is in the process of renewing the cabin of their A340's. The planes are completely stripped on the inside. According to the airline not a single cabin item is left untouched. This refurbishment takes six weeks, so six months looks awfully long.

You can read the Swiss blog post here:
https://blog.swiss.com/en/2019/06/new-cabin-interior/

Member LAXintl posted this information about a week ago in a discussion about the Air France A380 interior.


It usually only takes 28-31 days for Delta to finish refurbishing one entire 777, including all new seats in all classes, installation of mood lighting, etc. These smaller 764s should certainly take even shorter (after the first one, of course) barring any heavy mx work.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:30 am
by ethernal
NateGreat wrote:
Here is my take on what we know about the new 767-400 cabin, in terms of pros and cons.

Pros:
-Improved Delta One seat with a larger, more modern IFE, Delta One Suite aesthetics, and a privacy divider for the middle seaters.
-Self serve snack bar area for Delta One passengers.
-Delta Premium Select has been added, plus it’s in a somewhat roomy 2-2-2 configuration.
-Brand new seats in Comfort+ and Main Cabin, which have retained the 2-3-2 configuration which is standard on the 767.
-All seats have a newer IFE system.
-Colorful LED mood lighting has been installed throughout the entire cabin, giving the entire plane a newer and more modern feel.

Cons:
-The only real con here is that this new Delta One seat appears to be not too different from the somewhat cramped and outdated current product found on both the 767-400 and 767-300ER. The seat itself does not appear to be all that competitive, in comparison to say, a 1-1-1 Delta One Suite configuration.

Conclusion:
-Overall, I think this retrofit is definitely a major improvement over the old 767-400 cabin product. Alongside the pre-refurbished 777-200ER/LR, the 767-400 is the most tired and outdated widebody in the Delta fleet, in terms of the cabin. I look forward to trying out this new cabin product for myself in the near future.


So.. basically everything that doesn't matter has been improved, and the thing that does matter hasn't been fixed? Got it.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I think it's great that Delta is adding Premium Select to the plane (although noting that it is 2-2-2 is redundant as that is the only real option for a 767). But other than that.. everything else is meh.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:27 am
by LawAndOrder
ethernal wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Here is my take on what we know about the new 767-400 cabin, in terms of pros and cons.

Pros:
-Improved Delta One seat with a larger, more modern IFE, Delta One Suite aesthetics, and a privacy divider for the middle seaters.
-Self serve snack bar area for Delta One passengers.
-Delta Premium Select has been added, plus it’s in a somewhat roomy 2-2-2 configuration.
-Brand new seats in Comfort+ and Main Cabin, which have retained the 2-3-2 configuration which is standard on the 767.
-All seats have a newer IFE system.
-Colorful LED mood lighting has been installed throughout the entire cabin, giving the entire plane a newer and more modern feel.

Cons:
-The only real con here is that this new Delta One seat appears to be not too different from the somewhat cramped and outdated current product found on both the 767-400 and 767-300ER. The seat itself does not appear to be all that competitive, in comparison to say, a 1-1-1 Delta One Suite configuration.

Conclusion:
-Overall, I think this retrofit is definitely a major improvement over the old 767-400 cabin product. Alongside the pre-refurbished 777-200ER/LR, the 767-400 is the most tired and outdated widebody in the Delta fleet, in terms of the cabin. I look forward to trying out this new cabin product for myself in the near future.


So.. basically everything that doesn't matter has been improved, and the thing that does matter hasn't been fixed? Got it.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I think it's great that Delta is adding Premium Select to the plane (although noting that it is 2-2-2 is redundant as that is the only real option for a 767). But other than that.. everything else is meh.


So more privacy, a better tv, wider footwell, redesigned work space lol doesn’t matter. What did you all expect? I guess I never expected them to put suites on the 767s so I am not disappointed. All long long haul will be on a suite eventually. Obviously this will be welcomed by the frequent flyers. One airline did 1/1/1 on a 767 (UA) and they aren’t exactly killing DL current dated 767 on customer experience scores. Did AA refresh 767s get this much hate at their midlife refresh (it’s an older generation of the same product)

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:18 am
by audidudi
For those who might wonder why DL didn't go with the Polaris seats on the B764s... UA made the manufacturer of the Polaris seats sign an exclusive agreement that prevents AA and DL from using them! Everyone who I know who has flown on the refurbished UA B763ERs says the Polaris product is perfect for the B767s! Oh well !

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:50 am
by NateGreat
audidudi wrote:
For those who might wonder why DL didn't go with the Polaris seats on the B764s... UA made the manufacturer of the Polaris seats sign an exclusive agreement that prevents AA and DL from using them! Everyone who I know who has flown on the refurbished UA B763ERs says the Polaris product is perfect for the B767s! Oh well !

Aren’t the biz class seats on Air France’s new A350 the same seats as United Polaris?

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:58 am
by StudiodeKadent
NateGreat wrote:
audidudi wrote:
For those who might wonder why DL didn't go with the Polaris seats on the B764s... UA made the manufacturer of the Polaris seats sign an exclusive agreement that prevents AA and DL from using them! Everyone who I know who has flown on the refurbished UA B763ERs says the Polaris product is perfect for the B767s! Oh well !

Aren’t the biz class seats on Air France’s new A350 the same seats as United Polaris?


Yes. The exclusivity agreement is only for North America.

Re: Delta Completes First Boeing 767-400 Cabin Refurbishment

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:25 pm
by ethernal
LawAndOrder wrote:
ethernal wrote:
NateGreat wrote:
Here is my take on what we know about the new 767-400 cabin, in terms of pros and cons.

Pros:
-Improved Delta One seat with a larger, more modern IFE, Delta One Suite aesthetics, and a privacy divider for the middle seaters.
-Self serve snack bar area for Delta One passengers.
-Delta Premium Select has been added, plus it’s in a somewhat roomy 2-2-2 configuration.
-Brand new seats in Comfort+ and Main Cabin, which have retained the 2-3-2 configuration which is standard on the 767.
-All seats have a newer IFE system.
-Colorful LED mood lighting has been installed throughout the entire cabin, giving the entire plane a newer and more modern feel.

Cons:
-The only real con here is that this new Delta One seat appears to be not too different from the somewhat cramped and outdated current product found on both the 767-400 and 767-300ER. The seat itself does not appear to be all that competitive, in comparison to say, a 1-1-1 Delta One Suite configuration.

Conclusion:
-Overall, I think this retrofit is definitely a major improvement over the old 767-400 cabin product. Alongside the pre-refurbished 777-200ER/LR, the 767-400 is the most tired and outdated widebody in the Delta fleet, in terms of the cabin. I look forward to trying out this new cabin product for myself in the near future.


So.. basically everything that doesn't matter has been improved, and the thing that does matter hasn't been fixed? Got it.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious. I think it's great that Delta is adding Premium Select to the plane (although noting that it is 2-2-2 is redundant as that is the only real option for a 767). But other than that.. everything else is meh.


So more privacy, a better tv, wider footwell, redesigned work space lol doesn’t matter. What did you all expect? I guess I never expected them to put suites on the 767s so I am not disappointed. All long long haul will be on a suite eventually. Obviously this will be welcomed by the frequent flyers. One airline did 1/1/1 on a 767 (UA) and they aren’t exactly killing DL current dated 767 on customer experience scores. Did AA refresh 767s get this much hate at their midlife refresh (it’s an older generation of the same product)


Yes, none of those matter. I could not care less about a better entertainment screen (I don't watch it). I genuinely don't understand this fascination with "privacy" (which just means... some extra plastic walls in certain areas?). And I'll wait to see on the "wider footwells" claim (who has said this? I have not once seen a Delta press release or marketing material that claims this... this seems to be an airliners.net myth). The redesigned workspace? The 767 cabins are already great for daytime flights in terms of working area. The only issue is of course having to remove everything to open up the table, but I bet that is retained (as most other solutions would require taking at least another inch from an already narrow seat).

When I pay $8000+ for a J ticket (admittedly more like $4000 when buying with my own money, but still) I do it so that I can sleep and be prepared for the next day. Is anyone really materially swayed by these gimmicks? What matters is sleep. And the 767-400 seats - old and new - are clearly not designed for that unless you're below average size. So yes, when I say "none of that matters", I'm being serious. The #1 most important reason why someone pays 3-4x of what a Y seat costs is for that reason.

United's research showed the same, which is why all of their Polaris marketing material emphasizes sleep and night tones (even the name itself invokes images of the night). This is one place United is beating Delta. And I will continue to connect on United for TATL flights despite living in ATL to avoid these monstrosities.