tphuang
Posts: 3218
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
*AA LAX-SFO OCT 11>8[12] NOV 11>8[10] DEC 11>8[10] JAN 11>8[9] FEB 11>8[10] MAR 11>8[10]

are they upgauging LAX? Quite a bit of reduction going on.

Did a dummy booking for LAX-SFO in mid-March: 4 mainline (3x 738, 1x 319) and 4 regional (Compass E75) both directions. Compare to mid-July, where it's 5 E175 regionals and 3 mainline (2x A319, 1x A321), and you could argue there's increased seat capacity in March with one of the Compass regionals upgauged to mainline.


I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1353
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:37 am

tphuang wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
*AA LAX-SFO OCT 11>8[12] NOV 11>8[10] DEC 11>8[10] JAN 11>8[9] FEB 11>8[10] MAR 11>8[10]

are they upgauging LAX? Quite a bit of reduction going on.

Did a dummy booking for LAX-SFO in mid-March: 4 mainline (3x 738, 1x 319) and 4 regional (Compass E75) both directions. Compare to mid-July, where it's 5 E175 regionals and 3 mainline (2x A319, 1x A321), and you could argue there's increased seat capacity in March with one of the Compass regionals upgauged to mainline.


I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?
 
bomber996
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:07 am

JohnAudiR18 wrote:
*sighs and twiddles thumbs* still no AA ORD-GFK or DFW-GFK, at least no reductions to FAR on AA


Not happening. FAR is too easy to get to from GFK and is a much larger market. UA was in GFK for a while to DEN when there was some money being thrown at it. Once the money dried up, so went the service. DL to MSP is all there will be.

Pece :box:
"We've recently upped our standards, so up yours." - Federal Aviation Administration
 
jplatts
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:33 am

tphuang wrote:
I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


While AA, DL, and UA all have hubs at LAX, AA actually has more market share at LAX than DL or UA do. There are also some destinations that AA serves nonstop from LAX that DL or UA do not currently serve nonstop from LAX such as ANC, PEK, EZE, CLT, DRO, ELP, BDL, HKG, SDF, MZT, MIA, OKC, STL, STS, GRU, and TUL.

There are some FF's who are loyal to AA in the LAX market due to AA having nonstop service out of LAX to some non-hub destinations that DL or UA don't serve nonstop from LAX. AA is also connecting some passengers to Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, and Asia through LAX. AA is keeping nonstop routes such as LAX-SFO, LAX-BOS, LAX-ATL, LAX-MCO, and LAX-SEA due to AA having a loyal FF base in the Greater Los Angeles market.
 
Gulfstream500
Posts: 374
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 am

iyerhari wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Winners, losers

Winners:
LGA: seems to be taking up JFK’s flights on AA!
DCA: significant expansion from AA!
SEA: great expansion from DL and AS to BOI, SFO, TUS, BOS, and more.
AUS: 4 NK flights made daily.
PWM: Nonstop 9K flights to BOS, connections with B6

Losers:
JFK: How does an AA “hub” manage to only have one daily flight to another hub, even when it’s one of the most crowded routes in the US?
PHL: Two TATLs (AMS, CDG) moved to less than daily.

And the I cannot begin to understand award goes to... ORD! (Honestly though, there are probably so many changes that half the AA destinations changed over the course of a week.)

Thank you enilrea as always for all your effort. This is AA at JFK assuming all these cuts are permanent.

AA hubs: CLT, PHX, DFW, LAX, MIA, ORD (one flight)
International: CDG, LHR, BCN, MXP, MAD, EZE, GRU
Flights hanging like a leaf to check the box and potential to be retrenched anytime soon: BOS
Other domestic AA destinations: AUS, LAS, SAT, SFO
Caribbean destinations - nobody knows how long any of this may last thanks to B6: CUN, BDA, ANU, STT
AAE destinations: CLE, CVG, IND, YUL, BNA, ORF, PIT, RDU, RIC, YYZ

I believe AA maybe bigger at BOS than JFK. Kudos to B6 and DL.


I’d call JFK an AA focus city. That’s all it is.
Thinking of a good signature is hard...
 
ericm2031
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:09 am

jplatts wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
enilria wrote:
*AA DFW-OAK DEC 1.0>0.1[1.0] JAN 1.0>0[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0]


And DFW-OAK has been all over the map ever since it started. IIRC, it quickly jumped to twice daily and ever since has been a seesaw of frequency adjustments. Seems like they could at least make an E175 work if mainline is too much capacity to fill.


AA also already serves SFO and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW. In addition, there are many travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA or WN since UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at both OAK and SJC.


Except someone from the East Bay is going to have a very hard time getting to SFO or SJC with the horrendous traffic. OAK alone has 425k people and within that should have enough AA FFers to fill up a plane.

FlyingElvii wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA BFL-DFW JAN 1.0>1.8[0] FEB 1.0>2[0] MAR 1.0>2[0.9]
*AA DFW-OAK DEC 1.0>0.1[1.0] JAN 1.0>0[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0]


Pretty quick increase for BFL-DFW, it started March 3rd around the same time as MRY/SBP-DFW.

And DFW-OAK has been all over the map ever since it started. IIRC, it quickly jumped to twice daily and ever since has been a seesaw of frequency adjustments. Seems like they could at least make an E175 work if mainline is too much capacity to fill.

MRY has always had significant premium traffic. The SBP is interesting though. Is there more premium demand there, these days?


Not sure exact premium demand, but the whole Central Coast has very limited ULCC/LCC competition so fares stay pretty high. It is also pretty far driving/traffic-wise so the cost difference goes down pretty quickly once you factor in gas and parking. They also benefit from some military bases and colleges in the area and get a lot of vacationers.
Last edited by ericm2031 on Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 302
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:09 am

jbpdx wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
grbauc wrote:
AA should be using some of those LAX San Francisco flights to do a stop and then bounce up to Seattle Portland and other places up north. Similar to how Southwest does it


I think AA may wish to keep the space for Alaska Airlines. Both airline may expecting further cooperation in near future when the restrictions of Alaska Airlines and Virgin America merger wade off.


There are already ~18 flights a day each way between PDX and LAX and ~18 flights a day each way between PDX and SFO. (About 30 a day if you include SJC and OAK, and 30 a day if you include BUR, ONT, LGB and SNA.) As for Alaska, they’ve been cutting back cooperation with American not increasing it.


As I have said in my post, AS reduced cooperation after the merger with Virgin America. This temporary cut back will not last. Both party will pick up cooperation again once the restrictions imposed are gone. Alaska Airlines also rumoured to join oneWorld connect program.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:14 am

AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[AA] had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?


I think those AAdvantage miles can only used on AS routes not served by AA. I could be mistaken, but that's my understanding.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
Dominion301
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:29 am

Gulfstream500 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
Winners, losers

Winners:
LGA: seems to be taking up JFK’s flights on AA!
DCA: significant expansion from AA!
SEA: great expansion from DL and AS to BOI, SFO, TUS, BOS, and more.
AUS: 4 NK flights made daily.
PWM: Nonstop 9K flights to BOS, connections with B6

Losers:
JFK: How does an AA “hub” manage to only have one daily flight to another hub, even when it’s one of the most crowded routes in the US?
PHL: Two TATLs (AMS, CDG) moved to less than daily.

And the I cannot begin to understand award goes to... ORD! (Honestly though, there are probably so many changes that half the AA destinations changed over the course of a week.)

Thank you enilrea as always for all your effort. This is AA at JFK assuming all these cuts are permanent.

AA hubs: CLT, PHX, DFW, LAX, MIA, ORD (one flight)
International: CDG, LHR, BCN, MXP, MAD, EZE, GRU
Flights hanging like a leaf to check the box and potential to be retrenched anytime soon: BOS
Other domestic AA destinations: AUS, LAS, SAT, SFO
Caribbean destinations - nobody knows how long any of this may last thanks to B6: CUN, BDA, ANU, STT
AAE destinations: CLE, CVG, IND, YUL, BNA, ORF, PIT, RDU, RIC, YYZ

I believe AA maybe bigger at BOS than JFK. Kudos to B6 and DL.


I’d call JFK an AA focus city. That’s all it is.


International gateway perhaps? The AA of 2019-20 at JFK has some striking similarities to TWA at JFK during TW’s twilight years.
 
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spinkid
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:31 am

continental004 wrote:
Love seeing another US-PTP option open up.


With DY gone, there are much fewer seats headed there. ATL on AF and MIA on AA.
I didn't realize AF had cut PTP, or perhaps made it seasonal somehow. Otherwise they must have seen something in DY's FLL numbers that made them feel they could make this work again.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:43 am

ericm2031 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:

Except someone from the East Bay is going to have a very hard time getting to SFO or SJC with the horrendous traffic. OAK alone has 425k people and within that should have enough AA FFers to fill up a plane.



You can't fill an airplane if you don't advertise the service.
 
AirFiero
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:29 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[AA] had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?


I think those AAdvantage miles can only used on AS routes not served by AA. I could be mistaken, but that's my understanding.


That sounds right.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:12 am

jplatts wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


While AA, DL, and UA all have hubs at LAX, AA actually has more market share at LAX than DL or UA do. There are also some destinations that AA serves nonstop from LAX that DL or UA do not currently serve nonstop from LAX such as ANC, PEK, EZE, CLT, DRO, ELP, BDL, HKG, SDF, MZT, MIA, OKC, STL, STS, GRU, and TUL.

There are some FF's who are loyal to AA in the LAX market due to AA having nonstop service out of LAX to some non-hub destinations that DL or UA don't serve nonstop from LAX. AA is also connecting some passengers to Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, and Asia through LAX. AA is keeping nonstop routes such as LAX-SFO, LAX-BOS, LAX-ATL, LAX-MCO, and LAX-SEA due to AA having a loyal FF base in the Greater Los Angeles market.



The market share advantage that everybody likes to post about at LAX for AA is not that much. Other then some international stuff the few AA domestic direct markets are not that compelling. A West Coast presence that would be a better add domestic wise North South.

International aside delta is building a much better presence on the west coast. Delta with its terminal move at LAX has or will be closing that gate gap. Delta PTP flying along with SLC SEA LAX And their build up in any market they can get their hands on example > Long Beach AA retreat JB opened the door Delta stepped in. Like there doing at LUV,AUS,MCO,RDU,BOS,SEA where there aggressive at.

Delta added PtP flights out of LAS that helps there west coast presence for lax area flyers also. Sometimes business takes me to LAX To SJC/SFO and then SJC direct LAS direct to SAN then direct back to LAX or LAS direct to SNA,LGB or LAX of course. I know this is not WN like but it’s a hell of a lot better then AA west coast operation.
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:14 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
[AA] had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?


I think those AAdvantage miles can only used on AS routes not served by AA. I could be mistaken, but that's my understanding.


And non hub routes I believe. The AS and the AA relationship due to their (AS)merger virgin America is not the same.
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:18 am

chonetsao wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

I think AA may wish to keep the space for Alaska Airlines. Both airline may expecting further cooperation in near future when the restrictions of Alaska Airlines and Virgin America merger wade off.


There are already ~18 flights a day each way between PDX and LAX and ~18 flights a day each way between PDX and SFO. (About 30 a day if you include SJC and OAK, and 30 a day if you include BUR, ONT, LGB and SNA.) As for Alaska, they’ve been cutting back cooperation with American not increasing it.


As I have said in my post, AS reduced cooperation after the merger with Virgin America. This temporary cut back will not last. Both party will pick up cooperation again once the restrictions imposed are gone. Alaska Airlines also rumoured to join oneWorld connect program.


All the stuff I’ve read there is no due date for restrictions to ease up.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 am

Re AA at JFK:

Relax! They are using the slots to RIC! They got this...dont worry.


Beyond that, B6 just handed a huge win to AA at JFK by cutting CLT.

That was a route that US (and AA) didnt even serve when B6 started CLT over a decade ago.

AA went multiple daily mainline and handed B6 a huge butt whoppin on this route!

not bad for an airline that supposedly dying in New York
 
Cointrin330
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:24 pm

I'm a little confused as to what AA is doing on JFK-MXP (is it a mid-winter frequency reduction or a brief suspension)? I'm actually surprised AA still flies this route, given that EK has a daily A380 on JFK-MXP that exerts pressure on yields, and Air Italy, AZ, and DL (plus UA at EWR) all fly this route, but I guess the demand is still there most of the year.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:26 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Re AA at JFK:

Relax! They are using the slots to RIC! They got this...dont worry.


Beyond that, B6 just handed a huge win to AA at JFK by cutting CLT.

That was a route that US (and AA) didnt even serve when B6 started CLT over a decade ago.

AA went multiple daily mainline and handed B6 a huge butt whoppin on this route!

not bad for an airline that supposedly dying in New York


I don't think B6 handed a huge win to AA on JFK-CLT by B6 cutting it. CLT is a fortress AA hub and much of the business traffic to/from CLT is covered by AA and likely, few others. AA is simply moving traffic and cargo between a focus city (JFK really isn't an AA hub, it's just a focus O&D market and a shrinking one) and CLT.
 
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Miami
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:46 pm

Air France already serves PTP-MIIA
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:14 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I don't get the MKL flights. It's 80 miles to Memphis. Jackson used to be the 5th largest in Tennessee, now it's barely holding on to eighth place. EAS or not, seems a waste to me.


I understand the case for MKL-DSI. West Tennessee is a part of the world where Destin vacations are popular, the drive is arduous, and there are not many seats to fill. I have no idea whether it will work but it’s not totally off the wall.


Yeah, DSI might work. The Caravan should be interesting. With this not being an EAS route, I still wonder. MKL has had those flights to at least four different cities, and none seem to stick.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:11 pm

spinkid wrote:
continental004 wrote:
Love seeing another US-PTP option open up.


With DY gone, there are much fewer seats headed there. ATL on AF and MIA on AA.
I didn't realize AF had cut PTP, or perhaps made it seasonal somehow. Otherwise they must have seen something in DY's FLL numbers that made them feel they could make this work again.

AF never cut PTP from MIA. It’s flown daily. However, the flight is a milk run which stops in PAP before PTP so OAG would not have had it listed as MIA-PTP. What’s happening now is that AF is adding a nonstop MIA-PTP. Whether that route continues in to other islands is something we will find out.
 
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chepos
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:43 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what AA is doing on JFK-MXP (is it a mid-winter frequency reduction or a brief suspension)? I'm actually surprised AA still flies this route, given that EK has a daily A380 on JFK-MXP that exerts pressure on yields, and Air Italy, AZ, and DL (plus UA at EWR) all fly this route, but I guess the demand is still there most of the year.


Route does not operate on a daily basis in winter. I recall this is what occurred in years past. If I recall correctly one year it operated 4 weekly to JFK and 3 weekly to MIA.


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ojjunior
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:20 pm

continental004 wrote:
Love seeing another US-PTP option open up.

AF flight from what I saw, so which equipment to be used??
 
Oilman
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:32 pm

Didn’t AF move their PTP and other French Caribbean flights to Atlanta at one point? Does anyone remember what happened with all that?
 
Cointrin330
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:42 pm

chepos wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what AA is doing on JFK-MXP (is it a mid-winter frequency reduction or a brief suspension)? I'm actually surprised AA still flies this route, given that EK has a daily A380 on JFK-MXP that exerts pressure on yields, and Air Italy, AZ, and DL (plus UA at EWR) all fly this route, but I guess the demand is still there most of the year.


Route does not operate on a daily basis in winter. I recall this is what occurred in years past. If I recall correctly one year it operated 4 weekly to JFK and 3 weekly to MIA.

That sounds right. Thanks.


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ucdtim17
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:50 pm

jplatts wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
enilria wrote:
*AA DFW-OAK DEC 1.0>0.1[1.0] JAN 1.0>0[1.0] FEB 1.0>0[1.0] MAR 1.0>0[1.0]


And DFW-OAK has been all over the map ever since it started. IIRC, it quickly jumped to twice daily and ever since has been a seesaw of frequency adjustments. Seems like they could at least make an E175 work if mainline is too much capacity to fill.


AA also already serves SFO and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW. In addition, there are many travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA or WN since UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at both OAK and SJC.


DFW-OAK appears to be suspended Dec 3-April 7. Its recent service breaks have presumably been Max-related; this seems different. Odd route to seasonally suspend though.
 
Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:03 pm

Oilman wrote:
Didn’t AF move their PTP and other French Caribbean flights to Atlanta at one point? Does anyone remember what happened with all that?

They didn’t move them to ATL, they added a new service to ATL on top of the milk run done out of MIA. I’m not sure whether the ATL service still exists.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:03 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:

And DFW-OAK has been all over the map ever since it started. IIRC, it quickly jumped to twice daily and ever since has been a seesaw of frequency adjustments. Seems like they could at least make an E175 work if mainline is too much capacity to fill.


AA also already serves SFO and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW. In addition, there are many travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA or WN since UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at both OAK and SJC.


DFW-OAK appears to be suspended Dec 3-April 7. Its recent service breaks have presumably been Max-related; this seems different. Odd route to seasonally suspend though.

OAK has really struggled to the East. No idea why. DFW is not East, but the connects are.
 
Brickell305
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:04 pm

ojjunior wrote:
continental004 wrote:
Love seeing another US-PTP option open up.

AF flight from what I saw, so which equipment to be used??

AF bases A320s in the Caribbean for these services.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:12 pm

enilria wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

AA also already serves SFO and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW. In addition, there are many travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA or WN since UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at both OAK and SJC.


DFW-OAK appears to be suspended Dec 3-April 7. Its recent service breaks have presumably been Max-related; this seems different. Odd route to seasonally suspend though.

OAK has really struggled to the East. No idea why. DFW is not East, but the connects are.


DL to ATL comes and goes every other year. It's hard to put a single flight on the schedule and expect it to compete with the much more extensive schedule at SFO.
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:29 pm

enilria wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

AA also already serves SFO and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW. In addition, there are many travelers in the San Francisco Bay Area who prefer to fly on UA or WN since UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at both OAK and SJC.


DFW-OAK appears to be suspended Dec 3-April 7. Its recent service breaks have presumably been Max-related; this seems different. Odd route to seasonally suspend though.

OAK has really struggled to the East. No idea why. DFW is not East, but the connects are.



I fell OAK is a lot like LAX in that people will go to SFO for the discount and volume of flights.
 
ScottB
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:56 pm

enilria wrote:
AA LGA-RIC DEC 3>4[3] JAN 3>6[4] FEB 3>5[4] MAR 3>6[4]


This feels mostly like AA parking a few LGA slots for the winter in a relatively short market. O&D (NYC-RIC) is maybe 300 PDEW in summer and DL has half of it. Just as with US before the LGA/DCA slot swap with DL, DoUgIe and AA management don't know what to do with LGA (or JFK, for that matter). What's worse is that DL now has a commanding lead at LGA and there's really little AA can do about it.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:07 pm

AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
are they upgauging LAX? Quite a bit of reduction going on.

Did a dummy booking for LAX-SFO in mid-March: 4 mainline (3x 738, 1x 319) and 4 regional (Compass E75) both directions. Compare to mid-July, where it's 5 E175 regionals and 3 mainline (2x A319, 1x A321), and you could argue there's increased seat capacity in March with one of the Compass regionals upgauged to mainline.


I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?


Yes, last Friday I flew AS, FLL - LAX - SFO on AS using AA miles.
 
keithvh2001
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:36 am

bomber996 wrote:

Not happening. FAR is too easy to get to from GFK and is a much larger market. UA was in GFK for a while to DEN when there was some money being thrown at it. Once the money dried up, so went the service. DL to MSP is all there will be.

Pece :box:


There are 8 North Dakota airports with commercial air service --- UA serves 7 of them (mainline or Express) from DEN. GFK is the exception.

Admittedly, 3 of those 7 are EAS markets.

GFK just is what it is. It's not small enough to be EAS. But it IS small enough that it's too risky for someone to link it to somewhere beyond MSP. Unless there's a subsidy involved, of course.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 am

ScottB wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA LGA-RIC DEC 3>4[3] JAN 3>6[4] FEB 3>5[4] MAR 3>6[4]


This feels mostly like AA parking a few LGA slots for the winter in a relatively short market. O&D (NYC-RIC) is maybe 300 PDEW in summer and DL has half of it. Just as with US before the LGA/DCA slot swap with DL, DoUgIe and AA management don't know what to do with LGA (or JFK, for that matter). What's worse is that DL now has a commanding lead at LGA and there's really little AA can do about it.


Frankly, I dont think they care

They will hold onto LGA and JFK slots with aimless adds and cuts until the next downturn...and then they will cut a deal.

I see a WN or B6 as buyers.

It will happen though. AA likely has a surplus of 20 slots at JFK and they could lose almost as much at LGA with little effect on their core operation
 
n7371f
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:52 am

Stunned seeing 2x daily SEA-TUS on DL via 320's. Wonder if this sticks. DL flew it mainline last season 1x and not sure it was all that great (I flew it about 15-17 times) on a 319 with mixed loads. TUS certainly has the hotel space and the amenities but usually people just go to PHX, even it means they're going to TUS. And AS has long dominated the market.
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:48 am

ScottB wrote:
enilria wrote:
AA LGA-RIC DEC 3>4[3] JAN 3>6[4] FEB 3>5[4] MAR 3>6[4]


This feels mostly like AA parking a few LGA slots for the winter in a relatively short market. O&D (NYC-RIC) is maybe 300 PDEW in summer and DL has half of it. Just as with US before the LGA/DCA slot swap with DL, DoUgIe and AA management don't know what to do with LGA (or JFK, for that matter). What's worse is that DL now has a commanding lead at LGA and there's really little AA can do about it.


I don’t believe expansion is this leaderships groups area of expertise. I wish some new blood or new management would be brought in. Doug has done it all and should leave while at the top.

Please no silly Doug comments we should all be a lot more mature than that and the level of discussion should be a lot higher than the silly snarky comments
 
grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:51 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I believe it is upgauged. They had previously downgauged to all regional while keeping frequency. Looks like they are now cutting frequency to upgauge again. There is a thread on FT called is AA actively trying to kill LAX-SFO.

Now this route is one where everyone aside from UA is losing a lot of money. So given AA's weak financial performance overall and at LAX, it's not a surprise they blink before DL or WN. But given that they have no other options in west coast or any expensive projects out there like DL's buildup in SEA or AS and WN's california battle, they are really not in a position to back off from such an important route.

Not only that, they are down to 4x daily on LAX-SEA. Their entire offering along the west coast is quite noncompetitive. Which is quite surprising compared to what they have transcon out of LAX. They have kept their schedule to BOS, ATL and MCO despite hemorrhaging money on all of them?


Can an AAdvantage member use AS on those routes?


Yes, last Friday I flew AS, FLL - LAX - SFO on AS using AA miles.


Spending a few miles is one thing but earning miles getting credit towards elite status complementary upgrades is another thing
 
Gulfstream500
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Re: OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Thank you enilrea as always for all your effort. This is AA at JFK assuming all these cuts are permanent.

AA hubs: CLT, PHX, DFW, LAX, MIA, ORD (one flight)
International: CDG, LHR, BCN, MXP, MAD, EZE, GRU
Flights hanging like a leaf to check the box and potential to be retrenched anytime soon: BOS
Other domestic AA destinations: AUS, LAS, SAT, SFO
Caribbean destinations - nobody knows how long any of this may last thanks to B6: CUN, BDA, ANU, STT
AAE destinations: CLE, CVG, IND, YUL, BNA, ORF, PIT, RDU, RIC, YYZ

I believe AA maybe bigger at BOS than JFK. Kudos to B6 and DL.


I’d call JFK an AA focus city. That’s all it is.


International gateway perhaps? The AA of 2019-20 at JFK has some striking similarities to TWA at JFK during TW’s twilight years.


I’m pretty sure that’s how they got the JFK hub in the first place...
Thinking of a good signature is hard...
 
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chepos
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OAG Changes 6/23/2019:AA Suspends ORD-RNO/ERI/BOI/CHS;DFW-OAK;AF Adds MIA-PTP;DL Increases BOS/SEA

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:17 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Gulfstream500 wrote:

I’d call JFK an AA focus city. That’s all it is.


International gateway perhaps? The AA of 2019-20 at JFK has some striking similarities to TWA at JFK during TW’s twilight years.


I’m pretty sure that’s how they got the JFK hub in the first place...


AA didn’t get much of a hub from TWA at Kennedy during the acquisition. Arguably the remaining TWA hub operation during that time frame was the STL operation. AA was bigger at JFK than TWA during the takeover.

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