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LAXintl
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U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:00 am

Following U.S.-UAE Economic Policy Dialogue held in Washington both government have affirmed their commitment to the existing open skies agreement between the nations.

Below from US State Department press release:

Delegations from the two countries also met to discuss civil aviation matters, during which both governments reaffirmed their strong support for the United States United Arab Emirates Air Transport Agreement (ATA) of March 11, 2002, and the understandings in the May 11, 2018, Record of Discussion between the governments of the United States and the United Arab Emirates. That Record of Discussion reinforced the principle of a fair and equal opportunity to compete in providing international air transportation governed by the ATA. They underscored the shared and ongoing commitment of the United States and the United Arab Emirates to fully maintain all aspects of their Open Skies relationship established by the ATA.

https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-o ... -dialogue/

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In short order the U.S. Airlines for Open Skies trade group congratulated the governments.

http://openskiescoalition.com/usaos-con ... agreement/

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I suspect the usual AA-DL-UA trio will be out with something to complain about in return.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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enilria
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:35 am

I’m not clear if there are any issues for the US3 to complain about. It appears this is a cooling off meeting.
 
jayunited
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:27 pm

enilria wrote:
I’m not clear if there are any issues for the US3 to complain about. It appears this is a cooling off meeting.


Agreed there shouldn't be anything to complain about.
I think the US3 need to start preparing for a number more nimble EK and learn how to compete against EK. EK with perhaps some A339NEOs, A350s and some 787s in their fleet in my opinion will be much more of a threat than EK ever could have been with just 77Ws and A380s. These smaller more efficient midsize widebodies will give EK access to markets here in the U.S. they never would have considered with either the 77W or A380 because those aircraft are too large and have to many seats.
 
spannacomo
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:45 pm

they could complain about an italian airline owned 49% by an EAU company and heavily subsidized by both EAU and italian governements? I mean AZ obviously. Sorry, I forgot AZ is allied with DL so in this case subsidies don't matter.
 
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mercure1
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:03 pm

They cry about EK 5th freedom flying.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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janders
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Have to say that I am impressed even during these times of nationalistic make America great again talk, that the U.S. government has strongly supported maintaining open-skies agreements even against opposition from the US3 and labor groups.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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SierraPacific
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:51 am

janders wrote:
Have to say that I am impressed even during these times of nationalistic make America great again talk, that the U.S. government has strongly supported maintaining open-skies agreements even against opposition from the US3 and labor groups.


US labor being against it makes it even more appealing for this administration to keep open skies strong. Also, US airlines aren't the biggest fans of the current president either so any chance of him doing them a favor is out the window
 
grbauc
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:50 am

SierraPacific wrote:
janders wrote:
Have to say that I am impressed even during these times of nationalistic make America great again talk, that the U.S. government has strongly supported maintaining open-skies agreements even against opposition from the US3 and labor groups.


US labor being against it makes it even more appealing for this administration to keep open skies strong. Also, US airlines aren't the biggest fans of the current president either so any chance of him doing them a favor is out the window


Goes to show labeling and putting things and people in a box will lead to error, it's hard not to do and the News is so all about labeling.
 
sabby
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:53 am

spannacomo wrote:
they could complain about an italian airline owned 49% by an EAU company and heavily subsidized by both EAU and italian governements? I mean AZ obviously. Sorry, I forgot AZ is allied with DL so in this case subsidies don't matter.

Yup, can't stand the hypocrisy ! Whining only when it suits them. There are other ST members who are run with heavier subsidy than QR - China Eastern, Garuda, XiamenAir, Kenya Airways, Saudia. Star alliance has Air China, Shenzhen, Air India, South African, Thai.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:56 pm

There's a lot of straw man fighting on here. This news blast wasn't about Qatar, although it is absolutely related as it's the same diplomatic grievance from Sec Pompeo. This was a two pronged US State Department initiative concerning subsidies from Qatar and UAE. The concern was with ME3, but obviously two different parties from separate countries. Since the link is referencing 1 out of 2 identified governments, sure, let's only talk about UAE.

And on the same front, please stop calling this issue hypocrisy based on the lack of campaigning by US airlines agaisnt other state backed carriers without Open Skies. If you want to identify hypocrisy, at least don't do it with correct info. Talk about Bankruptcy laws, Boeing IM/EX, 5th freedoms. This issue, however, is is whether or not countries with Open Skies agreements are violating the terms of said agreement by covertly funding/covering losses of their airlines. That's the claim. Everybody knows China is propping up all their airlines, and it's exactly why they cannot start flying to everywhere in the US, ergo not be the same existential threat as the ME3 have been to US commercial aviation.
Last edited by Cactusjuba on Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:49 am

Can we get back to discussing the actual US-UAE open skies agreement?

I for one am curious with this affirmation of the agreement, will this mean firming up of orders by EK for 787s to hit mid-tier cities in the midwest, or other large cities in the US? DEN/PDX/AUS/SLC/STL/PHX?

Additional 5th freedom rights into the US from other places?
EK has had good results from 5th freedom Europe-US, maybe they would consider Asia US?
Or is that too outlandish to consider just yet?
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
worldranger
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:31 am

While EK are allowed to expand under the Open Skies agreement with 5th freedom through Europe - there would be an outcry from US3 as they would se it as a reversal of the statement at the time a couple of years ago of ‘no current plans’ to expand that type of flying.

The fact that it has no legal basis isn’t the problem. It could kick up populist members of Congress to have another go at limiting the agreement with the support of the US3 unions - heading into an election cycle.
 
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DL747400
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:47 pm

Reaffirming the U.S.-UAE Open Skies Agreement means absolutely nothing. EK and the UAE will merely shuffle the deck and find new ways to cheat, which will become the discussion topics for the next round of "discussions" in the future.
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worldranger
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:14 pm

If the UAE and EK were cheating on the agreement as you say - why would the US State Dept “...reaffirm their strong support..” for the agreement?

Can you provide the information that you have that the State Dept does not have?
 
LittleSprocket
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:30 am

worldranger wrote:
If the UAE and EK were cheating on the agreement as you say - why would the US State Dept “...reaffirm their strong support..” for the agreement?

Can you provide the information that you have that the State Dept does not have?


The answer is simple, the UAE and Qatar are strategically valuable for military operations in the region. For instance, just today it was announced that we are sending a squadron of stealth fighters to Qatar as a show of force against Iran. The federal government isn’t going to cut off their right hand to please the left hand.
 
worldranger
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Re: U.S.-UAE Reaffirm Commitment to Open Skies Agreement

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:05 am

Can you provide evidence of cheating on the agreement?

F-22 fighters have been rotating stealthily in and out of ME air bases for years now including UAE. Pure PR after Trumps amateur moves got manhandled by the Iranians.

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