rjmf22
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Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:07 pm

Hey guys,

Came across a video posted a few days ago by the Heathrow Airport Youtube channel which states their proposed expansion plans for LHR , my apologies if this was posted before, I couldn't find it anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_At_8ZfqSLo

Third runway added, and terminals A4, A3044, and a new terminal over by the current Star Alliance terminal. Thoughts?
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seansasLCY
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:17 pm

rjmf22 wrote:

Third runway added, and terminals A4, A3044, and a new terminal over by the current Star Alliance terminal. Thoughts?


The A4 and A3044 are roads not terminals. It appears that T5 will gain a new building in front of the current T5 plus the remote concourse between the two runways.

T3 will go and T2 will expand.

I would imagine that Oneworld airlines would move to T5 and VS and Delta move to the expanded T2.
 
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sassiciai
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:23 pm

The 3rd runway is a political problem, and I wont address that here, as I assume that is not the thread aim!

I always wondered why many major airlines have their main maintenance operation at their main operating hub. Perhaps that allows for the most effective line maintenance to keep the ship running. BA does do heavy maintenance in Cardiff - if more of the BA facility between the 2 runways at the eastern edge were moved out to Cardiff and Glasgow, a mirror of T5 could be built there, maybe more!

It would inconvenience Concorde a little!
 
rjmf22
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:53 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:

Third runway added, and terminals A4, A3044, and a new terminal over by the current Star Alliance terminal. Thoughts?


The A4 and A3044 are roads not terminals. It appears that T5 will gain a new building in front of the current T5 plus the remote concourse between the two runways.

T3 will go and T2 will expand.

I would imagine that Oneworld airlines would move to T5 and VS and Delta move to the expanded T2.


My mistake! But that begs the question, if Virgin Atlantic is requesting an additional 150 slots, where would they go?
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alancostello
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:14 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
rjmf22 wrote:

Third runway added, and terminals A4, A3044, and a new terminal over by the current Star Alliance terminal. Thoughts?


The A4 and A3044 are roads not terminals. It appears that T5 will gain a new building in front of the current T5 plus the remote concourse between the two runways.

T3 will go and T2 will expand.

I would imagine that Oneworld airlines would move to T5 and VS and Delta move to the expanded T2.


My mistake! But that begs the question, if Virgin Atlantic is requesting an additional 150 slots, where would they go?


T2 main building is essentially tripling in size and adding an additional concourse east of the existing T2A, there's plenty of room to capture Virgin and other T3 airlines (American and BA will be moving all ops to the various T5 buildings.)
Last edited by alancostello on Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aisak
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:15 pm

rjmf22 wrote:
and a new terminal over by the current Star Alliance terminal. Thoughts?


Tha was planned long time ago under the name of Heathrow East. It was said it would be open by 2019 but also T2 (then Heathrow East Phase 1) was thought to be ready for the London Olympics in 2012....

Heathrow East was meant to be the home of StarAlliance and Virgin Atlantic under the project "under one roof" followed at LHR to house partners close to each other and prevent inter-terminal transfers as much as possible.

Remember back in the 2000s VIrgin Atlantic was 49% owned by Star carrier Singapore Airlines and bmi was still around providing feed to virtually every Star carrier (and VS) at LHR.
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:33 am

Third runway will be cancelled when Boris becomes PM.
 
fcogafa
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:32 am

RickNRoll wrote:
Third runway will be cancelled when Boris becomes PM.


Boris Johnson drops opposition to Heathrow third runway....
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bori ... -22xg2bhtb
 
Cunard
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:45 am

RickNRoll wrote:
Third runway will be cancelled when Boris becomes PM.


Is that a fact?

Or are you just suggesting that is what he is going to do?

Times have moved on since he claimed that he would lay down in front of the bulldozers.

Boris Johnson if he ever becomes Leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party (otherwise known as the Conservatives) will not cancel the expansion of LHR as there is far too much at stake if he did and he is fully aware of that.

LHR expansion has already been approved by HM Government and Boris Johnson has gone on record in recent days that he more than likely won't oppose it. Allies close to Boris Johnson have already made this public and the Times newspaper published it on Wednesday 10 July 2019. Betrayal of his voters maybe but a vote of confidence for the United Kingdom as a whole.

He has instead made comments about the financial viability of the the HS2 and might call that one into question and a good idea to as it's not needed, it's a waste of public money which can be diverted elsewhere as to the completion of the upgrades of the current rail network.

Boris Johnson knows that LHR is an essential part of Britain's connectivity to the world and a vital asset to the country's economy and he won't want to be yet another British Prime Minister divering over the issue. If he ever becomes the next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and was brave enough he could or should go as far as giving parliamentary support for a much needed second runway at LGW as well.

LHR expansion is too far ahead in its planning stage to be cancelled yet again and the legal process is also currently underway. If LHR expansion is indeed cancelled it won't be purely down to Boris Johnson it will be a result of the legal process.

Regardless of HS2 the United Kingdom as a whole needs to focus on rebuilding it's infrastructure and the much needed and long overdue expansion of Britain's biggest and busiest airport at LHR will be a major catalyst for this!
Last edited by Cunard on Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Elshad
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:49 am

It should have been built years ago. But unfortunately nothing gets built in Britain due to the treacherous behaviour of the NIMBYs and the spineless politicians who pander to them.
 
Cunard
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:29 am

Elshad wrote:
It should have been built years ago. But unfortunately nothing gets built in Britain due to the treacherous behaviour of the NIMBYs and the spineless politicians who pander to them.


I'm definitely not a NIMBY far from it but I do detest the term and whenever it's used.

Not every NIMBY suffers from having a treacherous behaviour and some have good reason to object, if you wasn't an aviation enthusiastic you might think differently about the expansion of LHR.

I'm all for LHR expansion but you have to take everything into consideration, your flippant remarks make you seem totally unattached from reality and those that use the term NIMBYS are selfish in themselves as they never look at the situation from the other side.

For example my parents could be referred to NIMBYS as they and many others objected to planning permission next to their homes for housing. It was a green field site and after much objection to the development and the consultation and inquiries the planning permission was eventually denied by the local council.

My parents did not want a housing development built next to their home, that's a great example of NOT IN MY BACK YARD.

The majority of the local population living near LHR are in favour of the expansion of the airport as they see it as jobs opportunities. It's the greens and the environmental groups that actually oppose the expansion of LHR and most of those probably don't live near the airport so they can't really be called NIMBYS as the airport isn't in their '' backyard ''.

The Environment and everything that it covers is a big issue these days and the '' NIMBYS '' as you call them have a positive role to play in helping us all to live a greener and a more healthier and sustainable life.

For example, how would you feel if your local authority informed you that they intended to bull dose every home in your street except yours and build a six lane highway? Would you accept the planning or oppose it, would you be a so called NIMBY in that scenario

Bring on the expansion of LHR but to use the term NIMBYS is totally immature!
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wawaman
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:50 am

I'm not going to express an opinion on LHR expansion, but even though Mr Johnson has said he will lay down in from of the Bulldozers, the reality is that this does not get around the facts that this will be an almost impossible project to deliver. Politics is just a small part.
- The funding model is unclear - someone needs to pay for it - and it will be VERY expensive
- Environmental - It is foolish to rubbish the environmental lobby no matter what you believe is right. There will need to be a solution that address the UK environmental commitments - It is the law
- Physical construction - It is a huge site in a high population area - Policing the site will be extra-ordinarily expensive. Keeping London moving at the same time very complex. M25/M4 are critical to London

These are facts.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:02 pm

Elshad wrote:
It should have been built years ago. But unfortunately nothing gets built in Britain due to the treacherous behaviour of the NIMBYs and the spineless politicians who pander to them.


The interstellar visitors who examined the lifeless Earth in 2400 found your comments and added them to the documentation of how a species commits suicide.
 
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MrBren
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:47 pm

nth thread about Heathrow expansion and still no expansion.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 pm

MrBren wrote:

nth thread about Heathrow expansion and still no expansion.


I've always thought another runway at both STN and LGW would be the way to go. Cheaper and with less environmental/population impact than shoehorning another runway in at LHR. As a Yank I have no horse in this race but diversifying the London traffic patterns would spread the "pain" around and probably make for a more efficient air traffic paradigm around Greater London. And yes I'm well aware of the LHR=Premium/LGW=Bucket and Spade/STN=LCC argument.

Plain common sense, IMO anyway.
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DobboDobbo
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:27 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
MrBren wrote:

nth thread about Heathrow expansion and still no expansion.


I've always thought another runway at both STN and LGW would be the way to go. Cheaper and with less environmental/population impact than shoehorning another runway in at LHR. As a Yank I have no horse in this race but diversifying the London traffic patterns would spread the "pain" around and probably make for a more efficient air traffic paradigm around Greater London. And yes I'm well aware of the LHR=Premium/LGW=Bucket and Spade/STN=LCC argument.

Plain common sense, IMO anyway.


Agreed.

Ignoring the other impediments for now, if you compare the London air traffic system with its peers (which I think are New York and Tokyo) it is the only one proposing further centralisation at a single location. Each of New York and Tokyo operate multiple hubs. For the reasons you set out this would make sense for London.

The decision to favour Heathrow expansion has clearly been taken for political rather than any objective metric (eg greatest long term economic benefit to the uk). I presume this is motivated by the Heathrow lobby, but it could be that the government has forgotten Heathrow is no longer a state owned monopoly!

It is easy to make decisions on paper, but at some point the question of deliverability and finance has to be addressed. At present, there are no answers to the deliverability impediments and no one is prepared to finance such things as surface access. Whilst these issues remain outstanding, the process feels a bit academic and pointless.
 
uta999
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:33 pm

For those still banging on about the climate, the local environment, noise and pollution from an expanded LHR. How can it be greener to have an average 20-30 minute delay, both arrivals and departures x 480,000 flights per year? That seems largely forgotten.

The third runway is not a massive project either. Construction being no bigger than a major housing / industrial estate. It is perhaps on par with the Channel Tunnel rail terminal near Folkestone, built in the early 1990s. There was similar disgust there at the time but is now lauded as the way forward. The site is not an AONB either. It's mostly farmland and a brownfield quarry, surrounded by two motorways and major A roads, and light industry / warehouses. Devon and Cornwall it is not. Yes some locals will need to move, but that is no different to HS1, HS2 and various motorways, bypasses and Victorian railways in the past.

Some mention the M25/M4 as a reason it will never be built, when in fact it should be the main reason to build it. This area of west London and road network needs investment and has done for years. Many airports now have motorways and railways under active runways. It is normal, safe and widespread.

AONB = Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty
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Oykie
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:51 pm

uta999 wrote:
For those still banging on about the climate, the local environment, noise and pollution from an expanded LHR. How can it be greener to have an average 20-30 minute delay, both arrivals and departures x 480,000 flights per year? That seems largely forgotten.

The third runway is not a massive project either. Construction being no bigger than a major housing / industrial estate. It is perhaps on par with the Channel Tunnel rail terminal near Folkestone, built in the early 1990s. There was similar disgust there at the time but is now lauded as the way forward. The site is not an AONB either. It's mostly farmland and a brownfield quarry, surrounded by two motorways and major A roads, and light industry / warehouses. Devon and Cornwall it is not. Yes some locals will need to move, but that is no different to HS1, HS2 and various motorways, bypasses and Victorian railways in the past.

Some mention the M25/M4 as a reason it will never be built, when in fact it should be the main reason to build it. This area of west London and road network needs investment and has done for years. Many airports now have motorways and railways under active runways. It is normal, safe and widespread.

AONB = Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty


I agree with this reasoning. The delays at LHR is bad and building a third runway is desperately needed. I like the proposals in the video. They are thinking long term. Less delayed traffic and fewer planes flying in circles waiting for room to land at LHR equals a more sustainable solution. I welcome this solution.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
StTim
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:08 pm

For me LHR is the logical place to expand.
STR and LGW are inaccessible for large tracts of the country. If you had to chose a second it would be STR for those in the north and east for access. LGW is really trapped between London and the Channel. Not good for those North of London, nor those west of London.
I wish they would get on with it.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Potential Heathrow expansion revealed

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:40 pm

Twenty years from now there won't have been a single spadeful of dirt turned, and we'll still be having this debate.

ORD - an airport equally surrounded by development and with arrival/departure paths that route over similarly populated areas - has managed to completely reconfigure and expand its runway system. Took about 20 years of argument and some serious political muscle to get it done, but it happened.

That same political muscle has to emerge in London if anything is going to get done, but I'm not optimistic. The UK has been dithering on about Heathrow for the better part of five decades now. Meanwhile planes continue spinning around above the holding points in greater London and idling in 20-minute takeoff queues, spewing out emissions, while the anti-expansionists congratulate themselves on protecting the environment.

A simplistic view, sure, but you can't claim to be a global city while pretending your post-WW2 infrastructure is still up to the task and will be forever.

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