chonetsao
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PKX (Beijing Daxing) Route Announcements and News Thread

Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:52 am

Since MU and CA exchanged 10% of PKX (Beijing Daxing Airport) market shares, CA has announced following DAILY flights from PKX from 27th October 2019.

CA8181/8182 PKX-Nanning-PKX 08:00-11:35/12:35-16:00
CA8183/8184 PKX-Kunming-PKX 17:00-20:50/08:50-12:20
CA8185/8186 PKX-Shenzhen-PKX 13:40-17:00/18:00-21:10
CA8187/8188 PKX-Ha'erbin-PKX 08:40-10:45/11:45-14:00
CA8189/8190 PKX-Chongqing-PKX 15:00-18:00/19:00-21:40
CA8191/8192 PKX-Shanghai Pudong-PKX 08:15-10:40/11:40-14:10
CA8193/8194 PKX-Zhanjiang-PKX 15:10-18:55/19:55-23:55
CA8195/8196 PKX-Shenyang-PKX 09:30-11:05/12:20-14:05
CA8197/8198 PKX-Changsha-PKX 16:00-18:40/19:40-22:00

All timetable is preliminary. Further adjustment is likely. It looks like there will be 5-6 aircraft will be based in PKX. Rumor is that Air China's subsidiary Beijing Airlines will be the carrier.
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
Overthecascades
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Re: Air China (CA) announces new PKX (Beijing Daxing Airport) routes

Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:42 pm

This is nowhere near 10%. They must announce more in the future
 
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Zoedyn
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Beijing Daxing Route Announcements and News Thread

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:52 am

https://m.weibo.cn/1761913213/4387456016999797

Finnair is going to launch 3x weekly HEL-PKX on Nov 3rd using A333, per the Chinese Weibo account of Airlineroute.

Big congrats to AY and PKX :champagne: :champagne:

With that, AY will become not only the 1st international airline to launch intercontinental longhaul service to Beijing’s grand new Daxing Airport at the earliest opportunity, but also the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

Given the newly-forged close relations btwn AY and CZ (the largest home hub operator at PKX), I think there’s every reason to believe that AY would have great chances of success at Daxing :D
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:58 am

It will be interesting to see how many carriers split operations between PEK and PKX.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:01 am

Pellegrine wrote:
It will be interesting to see how many carriers split operations between PEK and PKX.

....and also, in what way will they do it.

I suspect by alliance ([email protected], Sky/[email protected]).

But could also be by availability, by type of operation (full service vs LoCo), etc.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:08 am

Zoedyn wrote:
With that, AY will become [...] the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

I am confused. I thought the goal was to avoid such a situation? Is this just a transition phase only?
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:20 am

N14AZ wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
With that, AY will become [...] the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

I am confused. I thought the goal was to avoid such a situation? Is this just a transition phase only?


The airports are easily 1 hour 20 minutes apart by automobile. I want to see how much of a say JFK/EWR effect there will be, with some carriers flying into both.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:39 am

Zoedyn wrote:
https://m.weibo.cn/1761913213/4387456016999797

Finnair is going to launch 3x weekly HEL-PKX on Nov 3rd using A333, per the Chinese Weibo account of Airlineroute.

Big congrats to AY and PKX :champagne: :champagne:

With that, AY will become not only the 1st international airline to launch intercontinental longhaul service to Beijing’s grand new Daxing Airport at the earliest opportunity, but also the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

Wow! This is indeed a significant step for AY and PKX.

Given the newly-forged close relations btwn AY and CZ (the largest home hub operator at PKX), I think there’s every reason to believe that AY would have great chances of success at Daxing :D

Agree. I believe this route will soon become daily and will likely be codeshared with CZ (and some of their other routes out of Daxing).
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:43 am

Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.

Pellegrine wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
I am confused. I thought the goal was to avoid such a situation? Is this just a transition phase only?


The airports are easily 1 hour 20 minutes apart by automobile. I want to see how much of a say JFK/EWR effect there will be, with some carriers flying into both.


Yes, that'll be sth hugely important and interesting for airlines, aviation geeks to keep close eyes on.

I guess for those international airlines that opt for ops at both airports, while PEK flights can be more OD driven due to proximity to Beijing's urban core, PKX service may focus more on connecting pax from across mainland China via close partnerships with Chinese carriers besides targeting OD traffic from western/southern downtown Beijing.
Last edited by Zoedyn on Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:43 am

Zoedyn wrote:
Finnair is going to launch 3x weekly HEL-PKX on Nov 3rd using A333, per the Chinese Weibo account of Airlineroute.

Big congrats to AY and PKX :champagne: :champagne:


I wonder if it will be possible to transfer from JFK or LAX with a reasonable layover?
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:27 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Wow! This is indeed a significant step for AY and PKX.


I honestly didn't expect AY to be this efficient and swift in its Daxing action when many other international airlines are seen to be in hesitancy mode still regarding PKX.

Once again, great kudos to AY for their vision, quick action and confidence vote for PKX :thumbsup:


I believe this route will soon become daily and will likely be codeshared with CZ (and some of their other routes out of Daxing).


Totally agree!
I am always a big believer in the great potential and bright prospects of Daxing, or the Big Boom airport as literally meant in Mandarin Chinese :D

PacoMartin wrote:

I wonder if it will be possible to transfer from JFK or LAX with a reasonable layover?


Not sure about JFK, as AFAIK neither Chinese nor US carriers are known to have announced any plan for JFK-PKX at this stage.

But I think LAX may be OK as AA currently operates LAX-PEK flights, which are highly likely to turn into LAX-PKX in the near future when AA follows its buddy CZ to make a new home at PKX.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:10 am

Interesting move.

A bit out of the box really, given that it will likely increase operational costs.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:17 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Wow! This is indeed a significant step for AY and PKX.


I honestly didn't expect AY to be this efficient and swift in its Daxing action when many other international airlines are seen to be in hesitancy mode still regarding PKX.

Once again, great kudos to AY for their vision, quick action and confidence vote for PKX :thumbsup:

Yeah, me neither. I'm glad about Finnair's efficiency in this case. In my opinion, Finnair has actually been bolder in opening new routes and adding frequencies recently.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
moa999
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:29 pm

It's an interesting question.
PEK is definitely closer to most of the professional (banking/legal etc) firms bases although Beijing doesn't have a typical business district, but PKX will obviously provide better CZ/MU connections.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:34 pm

Why don't they use the A359 to this destination anymore?
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:53 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why don't they use the A359 to this destination anymore?

They'll keep flying to PEK with A350, but PKX will be served with A330.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Pengaea
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:36 pm

Interesting move, especially if it is year round. Aren't AY close to maxing out their Siberia overflights (at least in summer)? I wonder if other routes will be axed in Summer 2020 to maintain this service.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:47 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
FlightLevel360 wrote:
Why don't they use the A359 to this destination anymore?

They'll keep flying to PEK with A350, but PKX will be served with A330.


Thanks, didn't know that the demand between Finland and Beijing is quite healthy!
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
Someone83
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:18 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Thanks, didn't know that the demand between Finland and Beijing is quite healthy!


Finnair's business is about much more than the Finland to Asia traffic, but connection from and to other parts of Europe is important. Finnair has a very high marketshare on the market between China and the rest of North Eastern Asia and Northern Europe, and especially the Nordics
 
Nami
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:38 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:15 pm

Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


The current AY flight to PEK arrives and leaves PEK in the morning. They do so presumably to offer alternative connection opportunities, at the expense of letting the aircraft sit on ground for this long.
 
lucce
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:06 pm

I see this being very similar to AY's move with NKG: they couldn't get more rights to PVG so they settled for what they could get.

B1168 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


The current AY flight to PEK arrives and leaves PEK in the morning. They do so presumably to offer alternative connection opportunities, at the expense of letting the aircraft sit on ground for this long.

It might also having to do with the afternoon wave being maxed out of capacity.

During the winter there are a lot of long hauls (HKT, KBV, the Caribbean etc) that don't have that much connecting pax which eases the burden on the European feeder traffic for the afternoon rush. During summer these flights are replaced with ones that have a lot of connections so they might have opted to use the midnight/early morning wave for feeding them.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:21 pm

Pengaea wrote:
Interesting move, especially if it is year round. Aren't AY close to maxing out their Siberia overflights (at least in summer)? I wonder if other routes will be axed in Summer 2020 to maintain this service.


CKG is axed.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:22 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
With that, AY will become [...] the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

I am confused. I thought the goal was to avoid such a situation? Is this just a transition phase only?


Foreign carrier is not restricted on which airport to operate from in Beijing. The restriction on market share from each airport only applies to Chinese domestic carriers.
 
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FlightLevel360
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:51 pm

Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


Well that is just bad aircraft utilization, but hopefully we will see all A333 replaced by A359 when the order is finished.
To me, it will always be:
- Bombardier CSeries
- Airbus A321neoLR and A321neoXLR
- EMBRACER ERJ-170, ERJ-175, ERJ-190, and ERJ-195
- MITSUBUSHI MRJ

Anti narrowbody-long range-twinjet gang. Long live the A380 and 747!
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:23 am

chonetsao wrote:
Pengaea wrote:
Interesting move, especially if it is year round. Aren't AY close to maxing out their Siberia overflights (at least in summer)? I wonder if other routes will be axed in Summer 2020 to maintain this service.


CKG is axed.


Not axed, just downgrade to seasonal.
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:26 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


Well that is just bad aircraft utilization, but hopefully we will see all A333 replaced by A359 when the order is finished.


Not really great for the airline, but well, it’s really nice (as a passenger) to be able to finish work, go to home, pack, go to airport after evening rush, board, sleep and land in Helsinki ready for the day. And in fact they send planes to Osaka in a really similar fashion——1 daily 359, morning arr/dep+3 weekly 333, noon arr+midnight dep.
 
B1168
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:29 am

chonetsao wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
With that, AY will become [...] the 1st foreign carrier known to be operating at both PKX and PEK rather than sticking to one Beijing airport only after Daxing opens in late September this year.

I am confused. I thought the goal was to avoid such a situation? Is this just a transition phase only?


Foreign carrier is not restricted on which airport to operate from in Beijing. The restriction on market share from each airport only applies to Chinese domestic carriers.


More precisely, mainland Chinese passenger carriers outside Air China and China Eastern, whom after negotiation, managed to get authorization to fly some flights outside their main one, may only select 1 airport to operate in. Why do I highlight these parts? Well, Air Macau, HK, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, EVA Air, etc. (Airlines registered in HK,Macau and Taiwan) are allowed to fly to both PEK and PKX. Also, China Postal airlines do.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:32 am

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


Well that is just bad aircraft utilization, but hopefully we will see all A333 replaced by A359 when the order is finished.


For that utilization it will be nothing but the oldest A333. Does it really sit 12 hours idle at PKX? Any regular maintenance outsourced to China? No tag-on flights?
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:24 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Yeah, me neither. I'm glad about Finnair's efficiency in this case. In my opinion, Finnair has actually been bolder in opening new routes and adding frequencies recently.


Haha, I am not surprised at AY's any Asian expansions, which have surely been very impressive in the most recent year or two, as these expansions (actual or planned, or even proposed, say HEL-KTM) seem to me only a natural outcome of its decades' hard work consistently blending with clear vision and smart strategies.

Isn't it true to say AY is an intelligent early bird that catches the worms? ;)

B1168 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


The current AY flight to PEK arrives and leaves PEK in the morning. They do so presumably to offer alternative connection opportunities, at the expense of letting the aircraft sit on ground for this long.


Agree. So that the two airports' schedules well complement each other.

I should say the changed schedule in S20 is even nicer and more transit-friendly, indicating AY has a good mind to attract and boost Chinese connecting traffic from Daxing, an airport smartly designed and built with strong focus on transfer facilitation.

Also it must be pointed out that CZ's massive transfer of flights from PEK to PKX will occur in March 2020, which should provide considerable feeder traffic for AY's longhaul service if AY and CZ opt for codeshares there.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that CZ may start 4x weekly PKX-HEL some day, making it a daily route in combination with AY's 3x weekly
 
Nami
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:13 pm

Pengaea wrote:
Interesting move, especially if it is year round. Aren't AY close to maxing out their Siberia overflights (at least in summer)? I wonder if other routes will be axed in Summer 2020 to maintain this service.


If I counted correctly AY has 83 frequencies over the Siberian corridor this summer season which is more than the limit of 80 which was mentioned after an agreement was signed between Finland and Russia more than two years ago. There's probably some flexibility regarding using cargo rights "temporarily" for passenger flights.

NRT - 14
KIX - 10
NGO - 7
FUK - 3

ICN - 7

PEK - 7
PVG - 7
HKG - 14
CKG - 4
CAN - 4
NKG - 3
XIY - 3

BKK seems to drop from 10x back to 7x next summer but that's not exactly related to the Siberian overflight quota.
 
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QuawerAir
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:23 pm

Nami wrote:
BKK seems to drop from 10x back to 7x next summer but that's not exactly related to the Siberian overflights.

It seem to be the case, unfortunately. I wonder if the A330 flying to BKK 3x weekly was switched to the new PKX route for summer season.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Nami wrote:
Pengaea wrote:
Interesting move, especially if it is year round. Aren't AY close to maxing out their Siberia overflights (at least in summer)? I wonder if other routes will be axed in Summer 2020 to maintain this service.


If I counted correctly AY has 83 frequencies over the Siberian corridor this summer season which is more than the limit of 80 which was mentioned after an agreement was signed between Finland and Russia more than two years ago. There's probably some flexibility regarding using cargo rights "temporarily" for passenger flights.

NRT - 14
KIX - 10
NGO - 7
FUK - 3

ICN - 7

PEK - 7
PVG - 7
HKG - 14
CKG - 4
CAN - 4
NKG - 3
XIY - 3

BKK seems to drop from 10x back to 7x next summer but that's not exactly related to the Siberian overflight quota.


That Russia should impose a quota even on overflight frequencies looks strange to me.

They do this to protect SU that is also doing Europe-Asia transit business in competition against AY?
 
Pengaea
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:44 pm

Zoedyn wrote:
That Russia should impose a quota even on overflight frequencies looks strange to me.

They do this to protect SU that is also doing Europe-Asia transit business in competition against AY?


Last I checked, Russia was a sovereign nation, and not a participant in the International Air Services Transit Agreement, and as such, can control its airspace in any way it sees fit.

My guess is that Russia's regulation of its airspace is security related. The same situation applies in China, where most of its airspace is controlled by the PLAAF. It just so happens that this system has given the Russian government a steady source of income, so why cut yourself off from "free money"?
 
finnishway
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:05 pm

Pengaea wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
That Russia should impose a quota even on overflight frequencies looks strange to me.

They do this to protect SU that is also doing Europe-Asia transit business in competition against AY?


Last I checked, Russia was a sovereign nation, and not a participant in the International Air Services Transit Agreement, and as such, can control its airspace in any way it sees fit.

My guess is that Russia's regulation of its airspace is security related. The same situation applies in China, where most of its airspace is controlled by the PLAAF. It just so happens that this system has given the Russian government a steady source of income, so why cut yourself off from "free money"?


That is correct. Russia has the right and power to decide which airlines use its airspace. Actually I think UK is the only European country to have two airlines (BA & VS) operating flights to Asia using Russian airspace.

Norwegian has tried to get some rights, but they haven’t been given them.
 
workhorse
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:46 pm

Nami wrote:
AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


The heavens have blessed us (well, me at least)! I have been dreaming about this for years.

Thank you, AY, thank you, I mean REALLY THANK YOU!

I will fly on AY081 on the way there and on AY086 (PEK1055 - 1415HEL) on the way back. Not arriving in the wee hours and not having to struggle against my body for the whole day will be a huge improvement in my quality of life.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:01 am

Pengaea wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
That Russia should impose a quota even on overflight frequencies looks strange to me.

They do this to protect SU that is also doing Europe-Asia transit business in competition against AY?


Last I checked, Russia was a sovereign nation, and not a participant in the International Air Services Transit Agreement, and as such, can control its airspace in any way it sees fit.

My guess is that Russia's regulation of its airspace is security related. The same situation applies in China, where most of its airspace is controlled by the PLAAF. It just so happens that this system has given the Russian government a steady source of income, so why cut yourself off from "free money"?


Thanks for the explanation. Very convincing.

BTW, I remember reading somewhere on this forum with sayings that Russia has allowed China 400 weekly overflight frequencies, even without charging any fees.

Never found any documents or press reports to confirm whether such sayings are true or not. Very curious.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:41 pm

https://m.weibo.cn/1340723374/4388586251759854

KL is very interested to operate at PKX in cooperation with China Eastern, but it all depends on the availability of slots, as per Peter Elbers, CEO of KL, speaking at a ceremony marking 100 days’ countdown to KL's 100th anniversary

According to policies released by CAAC governing ops btwn PKX and PEK, international airlines can choose to operate at either airport or both after Daxing opens.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:50 am

PKX intercontinental longhauls planned by international airlines so far
Image
Image via gcmap.com (Glad to see PKX added onto gcmap already)

KQ is another international airline that got plans to open Daxing
Kenya Airways plans Beijing Daxing service in 2020

Within Asia, AirAsia Philippines eyes Daxing
AirAsia hoping to start Beijing service by Q4 2019
 
artflyer
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:11 pm

LOT Polish (as per their Facebook) to start WAW-PKX on 28th October, 4x weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat), on top of their existing WAW-PEK connection. So even slightly before AY.
 
finnishway
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:58 pm

artflyer wrote:
LOT Polish (as per their Facebook) to start WAW-PKX on 28th October, 4x weekly (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat), on top of their existing WAW-PEK connection. So even slightly before AY.


Interesting, because LOT is part of Star Alliance. I thought Star Alliance airlines wouldn’t move to PKX. Maybe Beijing will become like NYC or Tokyo with two large international hubs and airlines serving both airports in the same city.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:20 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Nami wrote:
Zoedyn wrote:
Routesonline disclosed the schedule as follows:

AY081 HEL1705 – 0710+1PKX 333 137
AY082 PKX1110 – 1405HEL 333 124

Which is surely an excellent one.


Looks like it will change into a night flight in S20:

AY081 HEL0045 - 1335PKX
AY082 PKX0155 - 0535HEL


Well that is just bad aircraft utilization, but hopefully we will see all A333 replaced by A359 when the order is finished.


However, that could theoretically allow for the same crew to fly it back. Alternatively, a crew arriving into PEK could take it back. That said, the forward flight leaves way past when the rest of AY's departure bank to Asia leaves, late afternoon, except for the red-eye flights to India arriving in the early morning.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:36 am

Whoa, Polish Airlines was looking like a dark horse to steal the limelight here.

Huge congrats :champagne: :champagne:

Didn’t expect at all that LO could be even swifter and earlier than the already very efficient Finnair in launching PKX, esp given LO's SA status. (LO: Oct 28th vs AY: Nov 3rd)

That means LO’s Daxing inaugural would come just at the start of the 2019/2020 winter schedule, almost exactly at the same time as its Chinese counterparts would kick off PKX ops in considerable scale like the CN3.

Thus LO, while being the second international airline to announce PKX ops after AY, will become the 1st international carrier we now know to actually launch intercontinental longhaul flights to/from Daxing Airport at the earliest date.

Also the WAW-PKX schedule is terrific.

LO89 WAW-PKX 22: 40-14: 20 + 1 on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays
LO90 PKX-WAW 16: 00-18: 45 on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays


Compare that to the WAW-PEK times, absolutely awful to Chinese pax

LO91 WAW-PEK 16: 30- 06: 35 + 1 on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays
LO92 PEK-WAW 08: 45-12: 20 on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays


The Polish report LOT: od 28 października rejsy na lotnisko Pekin-Daxing tells us more in detail (Kudos to Google Translate):

"For several years we have been applying for increasing the frequency of flights to China, because we see great business potential in this connection."

As we read in the communiqué, China is the second largest economy in the world. "The aviation market between Poland and China is developing dynamically: in total, over 70,000 passengers traveled between Warsaw and Beijing in 2018. In recent years, the number of tourists from China visiting Poland has also increased significantly, from 16,000 people traveling in 2007 up to nearly 140,000 passengers last year.In 2018, the average level of filling of LOT's aircraft on Warsaw-Beijing flights amounted to 90% in the summer season and 75% in the winter season, "we read.

The company has announced that the timetable for connections to Beijing-Daxing has been adjusted to ensure convenient transfers in Warsaw, including for passengers from other European cities, including Copenhagen, Hamburg, Berlin, London, Paris, Brussels, Frankfurt, Prague, Vienna and Budapest.

The carrier has announced that the launch of the connection from Warsaw to Beijing-Daxing has been planned in the strategy that LOT has been implementing since the beginning of 2016.

I believe LO’s PKX flights are surely part of LO’s earnest efforts to get a piece of action on Euro-Asia transit traffic they’ve got eyes on, as shown in an earlier thread Bloomberg: Poland Wants Its Planned Airport to Be a European Gateway to Asia.

Also interesting to see how much LO may benefit from its SA membership at PKX where CA in the same alliance only got a limited 10% slots, and whether LO will seek cooperation with Chinese airlines outside SA there.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:49 am

According to Mr Tuncay Eminoglu, Sales Vice President (Asia & Far East) of Turkish Airlines, in an interview with the CAACNEWS paper 土耳其航空扩展中国市场迫切 有意北京大兴机场, TK hopes to increase frequencies on Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou routes (each being daily now) if possible, and TK is also willing to operate at Daxing if the carrier can get Chinese authorities’ approval in both traffic rights and slots.

Which suggests the issue of traffic rights is the #1 challenge facing TK in its Chinese expansion, meaning TK has no chance of opening Daxing unless Turkey and China renew their aviation agreement.

It remains to be seen whether TK could get what it wants from the Chinese side.

Separately, there are already more than 60 domestic and overseas carriers including China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines and Beijing Capital Airlines plan to operate at Beijing Daxing as per the latest report 60 airlines ready for opening of just completed Beijing Daxing airport in September.

As PKX's official opening date draws closer day by day, we'll surely get to know more of the international names that appear on the flight boards at Daxing's terminal. I am particularly interested in which other international airlines would follow LO/AY, and choose to operate at both PKX and PEK.

finnishway wrote:
Maybe Beijing will become like NYC or Tokyo with two large international hubs and airlines serving both airports in the same city.


Sure.

PKX has been positioned by Chinese central government as an international aviation mega-hub that serves as a new national engine of economic growth to promote regional balanced development centering Beijing, Tianjin and Hebei Province in North China, even though this positioning had long met ferocious opposition from some deep-rooted reactionary force in Chinese aviation whose long-time monopoly over Beijing clearly could no longer be maintained due to the arrival of the new airport with a high-profile positioning as such.

For that I must hand it to the Chinese government for not only making the strategically judicious decision to build PKX, but also doing so with a strategically wise positioning for the new airport.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:13 pm

As Beijing Daxing is shooting to be a new international hub, CAAC is offering airlines incentives to try to attract more international traffic. "China Southern, China Eastern, Capital Airlines, Spring Airlines, and China United Airlines have already got the clearance to operate flights to the UK, Russia, South Korea, and Egypt," said Yu Biao, the deputy director general of the Department of Transport of Civil Aviation Administration of China. "The route from PKX to Paris has also finished the preliminary work of traffic rights allocation."

Overseas carriers will be allowed to operate from both airports in Beijing. However, Yu said China will give them preferential policies to encourage them to move to the new airport. "If overseas airlines move their operation voluntarily to the new airport, they can get bonus time slots as well as a more optimized schedule," the official said.

New Beijing Daxing aims to be international airport hub

So we are yet to see any international airline having clear plans to transfer their flights from PEK to PKX.
 
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Zoedyn
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:34 am

https://m.weibo.cn/2709620183/4392445188233338

British Airways has just announced via its SinaWeibo account :arrow: the British flag carrier will move over all its LHR-BJS flights to PKX beginning Oct 27th later this year, hence becoming the 1st international airline to announce PEK-PKX relocation, instead of adding new flights to PKX while retaining existing PEK ops.

Also this means BA will be even one day earlier than LO to launch PKX, making BA literally the 1st international carrier to start intercontinental longhaul service to/from Daxing.

A big thank you to BA for your confidence vote in PKX :D

Image
Pic via BA SinaWeibo
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1364
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:37 am

Zoedyn wrote:
https://m.weibo.cn/2709620183/4392445188233338

British Airways has just announced via its SinaWeibo account :arrow: the British flag carrier will move over all its LHR-BJS flights to PKX beginning Oct 27th later this year, hence becoming the 1st international airline to announce PEK-PKX relocation, instead of adding new flights to PKX while retaining existing PEK ops.

Also this means BA will be even one day earlier than LO to launch PKX, making BA literally the 1st international carrier to start intercontinental longhaul service to/from Daxing.

A big thank you to BA for your confidence vote in PKX :D

Image
Pic via BA SinaWeibo


Nice, looks like OW is really increasing traffic to Daxing.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 302
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Re: Finnair to launch Helsinki—Beijing Daxing this November, becoming 1st inter’l carrier to operate at both PKX and PEK

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:03 am

Do we know when BA will announce this in English? On their website and booking agents its still saying they are flying to PEK

Also, does anyone know when we can expect to see China Southern fly PKX-LHR?
 
tphuang
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Re: Beijing Daxing Route Announcements and News Thread

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:14 pm

why is BA doing this? PEK is the preferred airport? Are they unable to get good time slots at PEK? Seems like CA is really going to win out from this.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Beijing Daxing Route Announcements and News Thread

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:18 pm

With BA moving airports, this would be a good opportunity for IB to launch MAD-PKX flights.

I am surprised TK has not announced ISL-PKX yet.

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