https://abc13.com/5367946/?ex_cid=TA_KT ... UCLZhRwxcY

Jetblue's daily flight schedule between Bush Intercontinental (Terminal A) and its two destinations after Oct. 27 is as follows:
Boston to IAH: Departs at 7 a.m.; Arrives at 10:13 a.m.
IAH to Boston: Departs at 4:55 p.m.; Arrives at 9:32
New York City to IAH: Departs at 1 p.m.; Arrives at 4:10 p.m.
IAH to New York City: Departs 11:13 a.m.; Arrives at 3:35 p.m.

Wonder why the change.

INDCWBY

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

Bingo, you are 100% correct here.

BOS hou was a huge loss leader. They had to do something here. Now if they can only add a second flight to bos.

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

I kind of get it, but can you elaborate on how competing with UA @ IAH, instead of with WN @ HOU, will help B6's fares/profitability on these routes? Do B6's higher-yielding Houston-area passengers prefer IAH over HOU?

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

COflyerBOS wrote:

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

Very much so when when the merger took place and jobs got moved out of Houston to Chicago. And then when United tried its best to block WN from getting the City of Houston to allow for International flights in HOU. People don't forget.

Can we finally get a IAH-FLL flight? Flying UA then having to leave security to transfer to the B6 terminal is a pain in the a**

CODCAIAH wrote:

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

I kind of get it, but can you elaborate on how competing with UA @ IAH, instead of with WN @ HOU, will help B6's fares/profitability on these routes? Do B6's higher-yielding Houston-area passengers prefer IAH over HOU?

I posted in the JetBlue thread, but the gist is HOU is by far their lowest yielding route in that region. Even flights to DFW are not doing as badly, even though AA's stronger at DFW than UA at IAH and WN at HOU. When B6 was still running IAD, it was consistently doing better than BOS-BWI. You also see this with AS at DAL, where they are getting lower yield to both SEA/PDX vs DFW.

indcwby wrote:

COflyerBOS wrote:

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

Very much so when when the merger took place and jobs got moved out of Houston to Chicago. And then when United tried its best to block WN from getting the City of Houston to allow for International flights in HOU. People don't forget.

More loyal? Do you see the DOT reporting higher average fares on WN HOU-xxx than UA gets IAH-xxx?

COflyerBOS wrote:

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

How about... UA’s average fares are higher then WN’s? More likely.

CODCAIAH wrote:

Do B6's higher-yielding Houston-area passengers prefer IAH over HOU?

With only a token presence in the market, I doubt B6 has many high-yielding passengers from the Houston side of these routes at all. From JFK and BOS, sure.

I agree with others that the primary motivation for the move is likely related to competition. Interestingly enough, B6 will have the only flight on the IAH-JFK route.

Finally IAH - JFK, and another decent domestic option other then Delta and Alaska.

I always thought IAH would be a better fit for B6 than Hobby. A lot of Houston business is expanding north and traffic on 59 north of downtown has better traffic than 45 between Hobby and downtown.

indcwby wrote:

COflyerBOS wrote:

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

Very much so when when the merger took place and jobs got moved out of Houston to Chicago. And then when United tried its best to block WN from getting the City of Houston to allow for International flights in HOU. People don't forget.

Absolutely no one in Houston (unless they are employed or had family employed by United) cares about what sCO jobs left Houston or where HQ went. The only thing they care(d) about when it came to the 2 airlines was when they notice a decline in the quality of service during the merger. No one remembers that CO announced IAH-AKL or things like that; most Houstonians couldn't even point out what building Continental had their HQ in.

TWA772LR wrote:

I always thought IAH would be a better fit for B6 than Hobby. A lot of Houston business is expanding north and traffic on 59 north of downtown has better traffic than 45 between Hobby and downtown.

indcwby wrote:

COflyerBOS wrote:

Wild guess, but I’d imagine Houstonians are more loyal to WN at HOU than UA at IAH.

Very much so when when the merger took place and jobs got moved out of Houston to Chicago. And then when United tried its best to block WN from getting the City of Houston to allow for International flights in HOU. People don't forget.

Absolutely no one in Houston (unless they are employed or had family employed by United) cares about what sCO jobs left Houston or where HQ went. The only thing they care(d) about when it came to the 2 airlines was when they notice a decline in the quality of service during the merger. No one remembers that CO announced IAH-AKL or things like that; most Houstonians couldn't even point out what building Continental had their HQ in.

I remember CO announcing DXB, FCO, AKL, and etc with 787. Though yes Continental had special touch between different US carriers. Though quality of UA has gone down, though I don't think much Houstonians forgot about it as it continues to be one of the largest employers in Houston. On the other hand Southwest, and Jetblue has kept a bit of a quality touch.

Though yea I doubt some people now can't remember which building was the CO HQ.

IAH top ten domestic route EWR and LGA are in there, vs Hobby NYC doesn't serve in the top 10 routes. It has a better chance stealing pax at IAH, with Jetblue quality service, and also demographic near is high end, plus lot of companies have big offices, and HQ there.

Area around Hobby is run down, only advantage is how close it is to Downtown.

I am very happy about the JetBlue move from HOU to IAH. Despite IAH being 12 miles further from where I live than HOU, I almost universally use IAH. Traffic on 59 is much lighter than 610/45, and driving through the super sketch areas around Hobby just gives visitors a terrible impression of Houston. IAH has cheaper fares, better schedules and more airline choices. Terminal A isn't the best, but it does have the Breakfast Klub and Chick-fil-A.

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

B6 has no problem competing with WN in many other routes and WN doesn't even fly from NYC so I don't think your assumption is correct.
My suspicion is that IAH attracts higher yields and it's also where their BOS/JFK based customers want to go, and that's why they want to fly there.

If B6 wants to improve its yields to/from Houston, they have to fly than 1 flight. 1 flight a day is not going to attract that many passengers, especially JFK should be at least 2 flights. B6 codeshares with several airlines at JFK internationally, including many Star alliance carriers and I am sure they can feed the flight.

hohd wrote:

If B6 wants to improve its yields to/from Houston, they have to fly than 1 flight. 1 flight a day is not going to attract that many passengers, especially JFK should be at least 2 flights. B6 codeshares with several airlines at JFK internationally, including many Star alliance carriers and I am sure they can feed the flight.

Many Star airlines serve Houston, and also feed into Houston via other Star hubs, but I get your point.

Though Jetblue served HOU, with same amount of frequency let see if it works for IAH. If it goes well, I wonder if AA will join back in the JFK game, or DL.

JetBlue should try IAH-LGB.
Why not try a LGB-IAH-FLL-IAH-LGB or a MCO-IAH-LGB-IAH-MCO Rotation.

Flyguy

LH658 wrote:

Though Jetblue served HOU, with same amount of frequency let see if it works for IAH. If it goes well, I wonder if AA will join back in the JFK game, or DL.

IAH is arguably the biggest hole in DL's domestic JFK network, so I wouldn't rule it out. Could be an eventual A220 route. However, on the other hand, just about any connection someone would make on DL at JFK to Europe or Africa could also be made via AF at CDG, KL at AMS, or DL at ATL. I assume there's a decent reason that DL hasn't picked up JFK-IAH thus far while serving all the other large Texas markets...

airbazar wrote:

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

B6 has no problem competing with WN in many other routes and WN doesn't even fly from NYC so I don't think your assumption is correct.
My suspicion is that IAH attracts higher yields and it's also where their BOS/JFK based customers want to go, and that's why they want to fly there.

WN does fly HOU-LGA, so they do serve NYC. Personally, I don’t get the aversion to Hobby. It’s been remodeled and it gets you inside the loop much faster, but I do realize west Houston is easily accessible via the Beltway from IAH, and there are more offices located out there these days.

usdcaguy wrote:

airbazar wrote:

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

B6 has no problem competing with WN in many other routes and WN doesn't even fly from NYC so I don't think your assumption is correct.
My suspicion is that IAH attracts higher yields and it's also where their BOS/JFK based customers want to go, and that's why they want to fly there.

WN does fly HOU-LGA, so they do serve NYC. Personally, I don’t get the aversion to Hobby. It’s been remodeled and it gets you inside the loop much faster, but I do realize west Houston is easily accessible via the Beltway from IAH, and there are more offices located out there these days.

Wow, I didn't even know WN flew to/from LGA. Thank you for pointing it out.

Oh goodie--maybe we'll get more UA lift to BOS as a result!

usdcaguy wrote:

airbazar wrote:

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

B6 has no problem competing with WN in many other routes and WN doesn't even fly from NYC so I don't think your assumption is correct.
My suspicion is that IAH attracts higher yields and it's also where their BOS/JFK based customers want to go, and that's why they want to fly there.

WN does fly HOU-LGA, so they do serve NYC. Personally, I don’t get the aversion to Hobby. It’s been remodeled and it gets you inside the loop much faster, but I do realize west Houston is easily accessible via the Beltway from IAH, and there are more offices located out there these days.

I haven't been to hobby in years, but I still have the lasting impression that it is a dump- it might not be, but that's my and many other people's perception from years ago. the area isn't great either, as has been pointed out.

but your last point is the most important- location. it takes an hour to get to hobby from north houston, half that to get to IAH. and while united's service does indeed suck, I can get almost anywhere on a direct flight from IAH. so for all the people living in all the nice new neighborhoods in north houston, there is almost no choice. and from all the places in west houston, it is probably equal trip length to either, so IAH might win out due to more flight choices...

FSDan wrote:

I assume there's a decent reason that DL hasn't picked up JFK-IAH thus far while serving all the other large Texas markets...

Delta has flown JFK-IAH in the relatively recent past; I believe it was dropped around when they did the slot swap with US and added several daily LGA-IAH. Mainly I suspect they no longer fly it because most transatlantic connections can be handled via ATL or DTW, or on their joint venture partners via CDG or AMS.

This one... Miss the blue top and logo. It was very tasteful, one of the only buildings lit up back in the day. For those who are counting, they were also in the AIG building at one point too.

Off topic, sorry. Back to Jet Blue - what gate will they be at in Terminal A? Is there a common use gate(s) somewhere?

Texas77 wrote:

usdcaguy wrote:

airbazar wrote:

B6 has no problem competing with WN in many other routes and WN doesn't even fly from NYC so I don't think your assumption is correct.
My suspicion is that IAH attracts higher yields and it's also where their BOS/JFK based customers want to go, and that's why they want to fly there.

WN does fly HOU-LGA, so they do serve NYC. Personally, I don’t get the aversion to Hobby. It’s been remodeled and it gets you inside the loop much faster, but I do realize west Houston is easily accessible via the Beltway from IAH, and there are more offices located out there these days.

I haven't been to hobby in years, but I still have the lasting impression that it is a dump- it might not be, but that's my and many other people's perception from years ago. the area isn't great either, as has been pointed out.

but your last point is the most important- location. it takes an hour to get to hobby from north houston, half that to get to IAH. and while united's service does indeed suck, I can get almost anywhere on a direct flight from IAH. so for all the people living in all the nice new neighborhoods in north houston, there is almost no choice. and from all the places in west houston, it is probably equal trip length to either, so IAH might win out due to more flight choices...

Years ago, I lived just off of the Beltway on Westheimer. I always found it was quicker for me to get to IAH than HOU, so that was my go-to airport. I flew out of Hobby a couple times though and really liked it. Of course, the Central Concourse was brand new then.

In my opinion B6 seemed out of place at HOU. As for convenience despite being slightly closer to HOU in terms of distance IAH is usually quicker and easier for me to get to. The roads to HOU are generally terrible and always seem to be backed up even outside of rush hours.

Hobby has been remodeled and has a new central garage. And while the immediate area isn’t the best it is close to the Loop, Clear Lake, Pearland, Texas Medical Center, UH, TSU, Rice, UST, and more. The move to IAH is likely nothing more than that’s where the other airlines not named WN fly. AA has a token presence at HOU with flights to DFW and DL to ATL but that’s it.

stxbohn wrote:

This one... Miss the blue top and logo. It was very tasteful, one of the only buildings lit up back in the day. For those who are counting, they were also in the AIG building at one point too.

Off topic, sorry. Back to Jet Blue - what gate will they be at in Terminal A? Is there a common use gate(s) somewhere?

Dont quote me on this but my best guess would be a gate on the north side of A... A11 perhaps

I live about 25 minutes to HOU and 35 to IAH. Ive never flown out of HOU though Ive picked many people up there. The main reasons are that the area around it is bad and the options are far more limited.

Well this proves it then. B6 moving to IAH must mean the United acquisition/merger is imminent. Now excuse me I need to get some more tinfoil....

This seems to be their new strategy, flying to the main airports rather than the secondary ones. In my area they have built up DCA nicely and have even moved into the main terminal vs the LCC heavy Terminal A while largely abandoning their IAD operation.

The odd thing about Houston is that IAH, despite being further out, is perceived as the frequent flier airport, while HOU, closer to town, is considered the leisure airport. Most people I know who work in oil/gas, healthcare, consulting, and higher education have status with UA because of the vastly superior schedule and network that UA's fortress hub at IAH provides. There will be occasional complaints about UA's onboard product, but in the end, no alliance other than Star can provide the flight options to top business markets, especially internationally.
There was a perception that HOU was more of a leisure airport because of Southwest, but that notion is fading quickly. As WN fares have increased, more and more budget travelers are being pushed towards Spirit at IAH. Also, almost everyone I know has the MileagePlus card to take advantage of UA basic economy.

theasianguy wrote:

The odd thing about Houston is that IAH, despite being further out, is perceived as the frequent flier airport, while HOU, closer to town, is considered the leisure airport. Most people I know who work in oil/gas, healthcare, consulting, and higher education have status with UA because of the vastly superior schedule and network that UA's fortress hub at IAH provides. There will be occasional complaints about UA's onboard product, but in the end, no alliance other than Star can provide the flight options to top business markets, especially internationally.
There was a perception that HOU was more of a leisure airport because of Southwest, but that notion is fading quickly. As WN fares have increased, more and more budget travelers are being pushed towards Spirit at IAH. Also, almost everyone I know has the MileagePlus card to take advantage of UA basic economy.

I second this. Im like most flyers in that we build loyalty with an airline and stick with it. My work travel schedule has me flying to pretty much every major city in the US and the occasional international trip. WN simply cant offer me what UA can. If I was flying just flying to LAX, PHX, and MDW only, WN might be better. But WN's schedules to SEA, SFO, MIA (our office is in Coral Gables so no FLL), BOS, and PHL dont cut it. Then there is no service to other cities I frequent like DSM and ICT not to mention international cities l frequent like TYO and GRU.

Why on earth would I pick WN over UA? Even if I lived in Pearland Id still drive to IAH for that reason.

If they are struggling on this route, I don't see how moving to IAH is going to make much of a difference. Sure they may gain customers on the north side of town who live closer to Bush, but they're going to lose customers on the south side who don't want to spend an hour or more driving to IAH. They're also now going to have to directly compete with UA,NK and DL who combined have 23 flights today between IAH and NYC, vs WN who only have 3 between HOU and LGA.

In terms of attracting Houston based travelers, I think B6 has the following 4 problems.

1. They only have one flight a day to JFK and BOS, while their competitors have multiple.
2. Their flight from HOU-JFK is poorly timed, leaving at about 11am. This is too early for business travelers who want to leave later in the afternoon and too late for tourists traveling to NYC who want to leave early in the morning and have the rest of the day in NY.
3. Their prices don't seem to be very competitive. They're usually more expensive than even UA.
4. UA, DL and WN all serve LGA which is much more convenient when visiting Manhattan than JFK.

These are just my observations as a Houston based traveler. I would definitely be interested to hear what those based in NYC think.

CODCAIAH wrote:

enilria wrote:

This was in a leaked post a while back that was deleted. I’m assuming B6 would rather compete with UA fares than WN fares.

I kind of get it, but can you elaborate on how competing with UA @ IAH, instead of with WN @ HOU, will help B6's fares/profitability on these routes? Do B6's higher-yielding Houston-area passengers prefer IAH over HOU?

It will help them for the SOLE reason that UA flies into EWR and B6 flies into JFK. Same City 2 different airports. there is no competition,

STEADYFLYING wrote:

If they are struggling on this route, I don't see how moving to IAH is going to make much of a difference. Sure they may gain customers on the north side of town who live closer to Bush, but they're going to lose customers on the south side who don't want to spend an hour or more driving to IAH. They're also now going to have to directly compete with UA,NK and DL who combined have 23 flights today between IAH and NYC, vs WN who only have 3 between HOU and LGA.

In terms of attracting Houston based travelers, I think B6 has the following 4 problems.

1. They only have one flight a day to JFK and BOS, while their competitors have multiple.
2. Their flight from HOU-JFK is poorly timed, leaving at about 11am. This is too early for business travelers who want to leave later in the afternoon and too late for tourists traveling to NYC who want to leave early in the morning and have the rest of the day in NY.
3. Their prices don't seem to be very competitive. They're usually more expensive than even UA.
4. UA, DL and WN all serve LGA which is much more convenient when visiting Manhattan than JFK.

These are just my observations as a Houston based traveler. I would definitely be interested to hear what those based in NYC think.

A lot of new Yorkers prefer JFK which is easier to reach from public transit.

B6 should be more expensive than ua. It's a much better product and is far and away the leading leisure carrier in New York area. It also has no competition on JFK to houston. It gets higher yield to Houston than Austin, which is outside of perimeter. JFK hou was always a profitable route for them. BOS was a loss leader.

Fares at hou for BOS is a lot lower. JetBlue thinks it can get to more business travelers which are higher fared by making this move. If it's successful, I think they will go at least twice daily if not more

I didn't know Delta flew IAH - JFK, I knew AA flew JFK - IAH back in 2012 or 2013, that was short lived. Loads on that flight was okay.

Just like I mentioned earlier, one of the top 10 domestic routes from IAH was NYC area airports, so maybe Jetblue trying get a slice of that pie. Also lot of New Yorkers that also fly here etc, that probably prefer Jetblue. Wouldn't be surprise they have nice seat pitch, free tv & wifi.

This is probably B6 trying to salvage their presence in Houston before they give up on flying there altogether. They've shown us that they're not afraid to close stations, and I personally don't see Houston in general lasting much longer for them.

evank516 wrote:

This is probably B6 trying to salvage their presence in Houston before they give up on flying there altogether. They've shown us that they're not afraid to close stations, and I personally don't see Houston in general lasting much longer for them.

They are not closing Houston. What is wrong with people? They closed a couple of stations with no network relevance and now they are going to close one of the largest cities in the country? One where half of their route actually makes money?

The big surprise is that they lasted at hou this long given that most people frok new York and Boston are probably searching for iah.

STEADYFLYING wrote:

If they are struggling on this route, I don't see how moving to IAH is going to make much of a difference. Sure they may gain customers on the north side of town who live closer to Bush, but they're going to lose customers on the south side who don't want to spend an hour or more driving to IAH. They're also now going to have to directly compete with UA,NK and DL who combined have 23 flights today between IAH and NYC, vs WN who only have 3 between HOU and LGA.

In terms of attracting Houston based travelers, I think B6 has the following 4 problems.

1. They only have one flight a day to JFK and BOS, while their competitors have multiple.
2. Their flight from HOU-JFK is poorly timed, leaving at about 11am. This is too early for business travelers who want to leave later in the afternoon and too late for tourists traveling to NYC who want to leave early in the morning and have the rest of the day in NY.
3. Their prices don't seem to be very competitive. They're usually more expensive than even UA.
4. UA, DL and WN all serve LGA which is much more convenient when visiting Manhattan than JFK.

These are just my observations as a Houston based traveler. I would definitely be interested to hear what those based in NYC think.

Agreed on the four B6 issues listed. They need more frequency to attract Houston customers. HOU is known as the "Southwest" airport, while IAH is where everyone else flies. DL and AA offer flights from HOU to ATL and DFW, respectively, but Houston locals primarily use HOU to fly WN.

This move appears to be geared to customers on the NY end.

I live just past IAH, and have to drive past it to get to HOU. Therefore, I rarely fly WN. Based on the comments up thread, it is interesting that I'm not the only one that finds the slog to Hobby to be a bear. Once you're there, the terminal is fine. I'm not a fan of WN, but lots of people are. It looks like B6 wanted to be where the other airlines are, and where their frequent fliers want to go.

Terminal A at IAH is nothing fancy, but it is not a dump. It has received a gradual makeover in the last few years. I have noticed an increase in traffic there from past years, as well. I presume it is due to NK's presence, as well as the AA-US merger. In addition, UA is using three gates there, primarily for Express flights.

B6 will do fine at IAH. They will just need more flights to attract Houston customers.

BravoEcho757 wrote:

Well this proves it then. B6 moving to IAH must mean the United acquisition/merger is imminent. Now excuse me I need to get some more tinfoil....

You know that's not going to appease the AS fan club who have been dreaming about that AS/B6 merger...

Now that I live in Dallas, I would be tempted to fly WN on DAL-HOU over AA/UA via DFW-IAH, but I personally prefer to drive down 45 instead of flying down.

ctrabs0114 wrote:

BravoEcho757 wrote:

Well this proves it then. B6 moving to IAH must mean the United acquisition/merger is imminent. Now excuse me I need to get some more tinfoil....

You know that's not going to appease the AS fan club who have been dreaming about that AS/B6 merger...

Now that I live in Dallas, I would be tempted to fly WN on DAL-HOU over AA/UA via DFW-IAH, but I personally prefer to drive down 45 instead of flying down.

Well, you can see it as the beginning of AS and B6 collecting, or UA is going to take over both

You're freaking nuts for preferring to drive down 45. Its a parking lot from Galveston to Dallas. You must have the patience of a saint!

When was the last time IAH-JFK was served nonstop?

BenflysDTW wrote:

When was the last time IAH-JFK was served nonstop?

AA ended IAH-JFK in January 2014. The route lasted less than 1 year and was only 1x daily on a 737-800.

TWA772LR wrote:

ctrabs0114 wrote:

BravoEcho757 wrote:

Well this proves it then. B6 moving to IAH must mean the United acquisition/merger is imminent. Now excuse me I need to get some more tinfoil....

You know that's not going to appease the AS fan club who have been dreaming about that AS/B6 merger...

Now that I live in Dallas, I would be tempted to fly WN on DAL-HOU over AA/UA via DFW-IAH, but I personally prefer to drive down 45 instead of flying down.

Well, you can see it as the beginning of AS and B6 collecting, or UA is going to take over both

You're freaking nuts for preferring to drive down 45. Its a parking lot from Galveston to Dallas. You must have the patience of a saint!

I don’t think it’s bad. Years in LA taught me no other US city really has bad traffic.

theasianguy wrote:

BenflysDTW wrote:

When was the last time IAH-JFK was served nonstop?

AA ended IAH-JFK in January 2014. The route lasted less than 1 year and was only 1x daily on a 737-800.

Historically, I recall TWA flying IAH-JFK back in the day. Those were the days....

TWA772LR wrote:

You're freaking nuts for preferring to drive down 45. Its a parking lot from Galveston to Dallas. You must have the patience of a saint!

Well, it helps that I usually drive down early in the morning before Houston rush hour on the occasions when I do have to drive south...